Things are getting worst, u must change something

[RedOnly]

The game is getting worst as rewards are mainly for the sly, parasites and campers than for active and strategic players, and even less for team players.

 

Just finished a battle where a couple of Cleveland were camping as battleships, waiting for you to do the dirt job, a citadel, a big salvo, and then they just fired the last shot to get the Destroy reward... When there was the Cape Campaign was even worst...

 

At the beginning there were the Rank, where at least u could play some team battles, but then again individual player trying to end that Mission or that goal...

Win? Cap? Who cares to, unless is the condition for that Reward or the other.

 

Don't know how to suggest to change, for sure take away the Destroy 1/2 ship reward from any Mission/Challenge and put Damage or XP instead. At least it could be harder for those parasites to get the goal. Or... give us some DDT to kill them at the begging of the Battle without getting the pig sign!!

 

Or just transform the game in a continuous League of just Teams play, so the rewards go to all Team players instead of individuals. The Random could be the new Training. And Co op the Junior League up to Tier IV.

First step? Division of 7/8 players instead of 3.

[ForlornSailor]

7 minutes ago, RedAnark said:

First step? Division of 7/8 players instead of 3.

 

That would be the complete death-sentence for random mode.

[ollonborre]

Is there really a massive problem with "killstealers" during these kill focused missions though? I certainly have a hard time telling if one guy deliberately holds his fire or if he just happens to ge the kill. The problem is more to the point that people play like headless chickens when there is a time limited campaign on. The rest of the campaigns are virtually unlimited as far as time is concerned so those are rarely a problem (atleast you don't notice them).

 

As for the "camping" Clevelands, well that is what a Cleveland does. It finds an island and then punish everything trying to get near it. And are you 100% sure those Clevelands truly waited or did they just happen to reload in time to get the final blow?

 

And removing kill missions are not a terrible idea, but those "parasites" you speak of will then just pick some high damage ship and purely focus on damage and nothing else. So we are not really removing one problem, we are merely shifting it around.

[ForlornSailor]

3 minutes ago, ollonborre said:

And removing kill missions are not a terrible idea, but those "parasites" you speak of will then just pick some high damage ship and purely focus on damage and nothing else. So we are not really removing one problem, we are merely shifting it around.

 

Well, I for one dont have a problem, if I have someone on my side, that does everything in his powers to deal as much damage as possible.

[DFens_666]

6 minutes ago, ollonborre said:

Is there really a massive problem with "killstealers" during these kill focused missions though? I certainly have a hard time telling if one guy deliberately holds his fire or if he just happens to ge the kill.

 

Yes, its not that easy to spot, but certainly does happen. Pay attention to how it takes sometimes effort to grind a ship down, when it feels u did 80% alone and when the ship is near death suddenly bullets start flying in from all over the map? Coincidence? Cant be... BB reload is far too long for that. Especially BBs are holding their shots, thats when u get those low damage output games where it feels like your team is doing nothing...

[Klopirat]

Vor 50 Minuten, RedAnark sagte:

First step? Division of 7/8 players instead of 3.

 

=> game dead. First step should be to remove divisions from normal random...

[DFens_666]

28 minutes ago, Klopirat said:

 

=> game dead. First step should be to remove divisions from normal random...

 

Unfurtunately, this is true and makes sense... But we would definetely need some teamgame mode than which works also for less than 7ppl from one clan. Could be 12v12 with waiting rooms where u can pick players/teams or so?

[Humorpalanta]

35 minutes ago, Klopirat said:

 

=> game dead. First step should be to remove divisions from normal random...

[BeauNidl3]

The root of the problem is a killshot that takes the last few HP off a ship counts for more (in points scoring terms) than battering a ship down. The whole scoring system needs a rework which would make this behaviour irrelevant as well as rewarding teamplay, spotting, objectives and tanking.

Sadly we've all seen blatant kill stealing and the current scoring encourages it.

 

It's true that finishing off a low HP ship is very important as then it can't shoot back, but the benefits of kill stealing could easily be reduced   

[eliastion]

45 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Yes, its not that easy to spot, but certainly does happen. Pay attention to how it takes sometimes effort to grind a ship down, when it feels u did 80% alone and when the ship is near death suddenly bullets start flying in from all over the map? Coincidence? Cant be... BB reload is far too long for that. Especially BBs are holding their shots, thats when u get those low damage output games where it feels like your team is doing nothing...

You try to attribute to malice what could well be the most obvious thing to do. Killing enemy ships is important. The moment I spot a target at 20% hp - even if I see someone else clloser, easier to kill - of course I'm going to try and switch my fire to the vulnerable opponent in hopes of killing him before he manages to disengage or heal. Focusing the low-hp targets is like the basic of the basics - and sure, sometimes - depending on the situation - I can say "I don't need to shoot him, he'll be dead right away thx to other people already shooting at him". But this assessment can also turn out to be wrong. I've made this mistake before and there are few things as frustrating as seeing enemy get away because you assumed he's as good as dead... but he wasn't.

Reading KS as "kill secured" is only partially a joke - the only enemy that you can really assume dead is the one whose name is already greyed out on the player list. So yes, it's pretty common to see many people ganging up on the enemy only as he gets low hp. But attributing it to killstealing is quite immature, really. I mean, sure, there happen people who just want to accumulate the red ribbons, but even if there was literally no reward (even cosmetic) for the killing blow, low hp enemies would still be the priority target.

[DFens_666]

On 1/21/2018 at 9:17 PM, eliastion said:

You try to attribute to malice what could well be the most obvious thing to do. Killing enemy ships is important. The moment I spot a target at 20% hp - even if I see someone else clloser, easier to kill - of course I'm going to try and switch my fire to the vulnerable opponent in hopes of killing him before he manages to disengage or heal. Focusing the low-hp targets is like the basic of the basics - and sure, sometimes - depending on the situation - I can say "I don't need to shoot him, he'll be dead right away thx to other people already shooting at him". But this assessment can also turn out to be wrong. I've made this mistake before and there are few things as frustrating as seeing enemy get away because you assumed he's as good as dead... but he wasn't.

Reading KS as "kill secured" is only partially a joke - the only enemy that you can really assume dead is the one whose name is already greyed out on the player list. So yes, it's pretty common to see many people ganging up on the enemy only as he gets low hp. But attributing it to killstealing is quite immature, really. I mean, sure, there happen people who just want to accumulate the red ribbons, but even if there was literally no reward (even cosmetic) for the killing blow, low hp enemies would still be the priority target.

 

There is a difference between killing the enemy which is running away, and holding fire like FOREVER to wait until one target is low enough to kill it. Then u get ppl with several kills and lucky when they are in the middle of the pack XP wise after the match....

In a time where ppl think service costs are still tied to damage received, dont u think ppl are deliberately killsecuring? Thats like playing totaly blindly.

Ive called ppl out for that, and after watching them more closely, they sure did that. U cant hold your fire only to shoot low targets. Look at some bad players streaming on twitch, and u see it does happen.

 

On 1/21/2018 at 9:14 PM, BeauNidl3 said:

The root of the problem is a killshot that takes the last few HP off a ship counts for more (in points scoring terms) than battering a ship down. The whole scoring system needs a rework which would make this behaviour irrelevant as well as rewarding teamplay, spotting, objectives and tanking.

 

Either give the one who did the most damage a "kill-assist" ribbon or just give the kill ribbon straight to the one doing the most damage and the other gets the "kill-assist" Both would be fine imo, and ppl who work their buts of do deal with high health targets get some form of reward.

[MrConway]

10 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Either give the one who did the most damage a "kill-assist" ribbon or just give the kill ribbon straight to the one doing the most damage and the other gets the "kill-assist" Both would be fine imo, and ppl who work their buts of do deal with high health targets get some form of reward.

 

I like your thinking, but do remember that the players are in fact already rewarded for dealing that damage with XP and credits.

 

But adding a supplementary achievement would indeed be a nice thing!

[DFens_666]

2 minutes ago, MrConway said:

I like your thinking, but do remember that the players are in fact already rewarded for dealing that damage with XP and credits.

 

But adding a supplementary achievement would indeed be a nice thing!

 

Yes, i think most ppl on the forums know it, that u get the XP for dealing the most damage - but because we are just humans, and we dont "see" what we get for dealing that damage, it always makes u feel a bit sad for not getting a reward for it.

Just human nature id say that u feel u should get something when u tried your best.

[ForlornSailor]

27 minutes ago, MrConway said:

But adding a supplementary achievement would indeed be a nice thing!

 

That would be SO awesome tbh. It always leaves a bad aftertaste, when you have done "all the work" (that impression can be subjective ofc ) and it doesnt show on the scoreboard.

[Capra76]

1 hour ago, BeauNidl3 said:

The root of the problem is a killshot that takes the last few HP off a ship counts for more (in points scoring terms) than battering a ship down.

 

Are you sure?  I was under the impression that the kill was equivilent to 15% of the ship's HP.

[rvfharrier]

People need to stop being so greedy and salty over kills. Landing the killing blow is largely luck-based unless you're actively trying to secure the kill, which is detrimental to the team effort. What matters is the fact that an enemy ship is dead, not whether or not you killed him.

 

On the flip side, however, I do agree with part of the OP's post. Missions to kill certain numbers/types of ships are awful because they could either take a handful of games or nearly forever to achieve by playing the game normally, depending on RNG, or worse they incentivize poor play in the form of either reckless charging of specific ships or holding of fire to attempt to get the final blow.

[Vaderan]

The discussion about kill stealing in a game, where a 1hp ship can still bring 100% of its firepower to bear, is completly obsolete and unnecessary, because there is no such thing like kill-stealing in this game. I´ve lost matches to ships which managed to survive for 10+ minutes with less than 1000 HP, because nobody cared about them, or considered them as "someone else´s kill". There is maybe nothing more annoying in this game, than witnessing a 500 HP BB disappear, with noone to keep it spotted, just to see the same ship reappear 10 minutes later with several thousand HP regained.

Any gun, any torpedo tube removed from the red team, is one step further towards your own team´s victory. Sure, it´s annoying, if your almost secured target for your "kraken unleashed" gets taken down by someone else, but on the other hand, anybody would be thankfull, if that target is killed before it can kill you.

The best way to remove players frustration in regards of these things, would be challanges, campaigns and missions whit requirements completly based on player personal depending achievements. Damage done, experience gained, hits scored with guns/torpedoes etc., maybe even position withing the own team. Rewards should be provided for the players degree on contibution to the game/match/team, not based on luck and a trigger happy finger for lucky shots.

[xxNihilanxx]

28 minutes ago, Vaderan said:

The discussion about kill stealing in a game, where a 1hp ship can still bring 100% of its firepower to bear, is completly obsolete and unnecessary, because there is no such thing like kill-stealing in this game. I´ve lost matches to ships which managed to survive for 10+ minutes with less than 1000 HP, because nobody cared about them, or considered them as "someone else´s kill". There is maybe nothing more annoying in this game, than witnessing a 500 HP BB disappear, with noone to keep it spotted, just to see the same ship reappear 10 minutes later with several thousand HP regained.

Any gun, any torpedo tube removed from the red team, is one step further towards your own team´s victory. Sure, it´s annoying, if your almost secured target for your "kraken unleashed" gets taken down by someone else, but on the other hand, anybody would be thankfull, if that target is killed before it can kill you.

The best way to remove players frustration in regards of these things, would be challanges, campaigns and missions whit requirements completly based on player personal depending achievements. Damage done, experience gained, hits scored with guns/torpedoes etc., maybe even position withing the own team. Rewards should be provided for the players degree on contibution to the game/match/team, not based on luck and a trigger happy finger for lucky shots.

While in most situations I would totally agree with you there are still aspects of "killstealing" that are totally detrimental to the game. The situation that comes to mind is based around DDs and torpedos. I have lost count of the number of times when my torps were on course to hit and finish an enemy ship only to see a BB waste a salvo on the doomed vessel instead of shooting at a nearby one that was not in danger of being torped. Worse still is when a CV wastes a full torpedo drop on a ship that was about to eat torps instead of a full-HP ship a little way away.

 

A similar situation comes in the form of damage farming on ships that have torps heading in their direction. So many times I launch a great torp spread on an unsuspecting target only for half the team to start shooting at exactly that target causing an otherwise straightlining ship to turn and thus avoid deletion. I can hit F3 to call target on a ship and nobody will fire on it but launch torps in that ship's direction and the whole team decides to focus it. If I see a ship that looks like it will eat friendly torps I will avoid shooting at that ship for exactly that reason. I have even seen a team-mate shoot at a ship that was on course to be deleted by my torps, cause the target to avoid the torps and then get sunk himself by the enemy ship that he just managed to save. All for the sake of a few extra damage points.

[That_Other_Nid]

Well apart from Krakens and sometimes mission requirements who cares? That said I have gotten a kraken with 14k damage, but I view confederate and high calibre are much more significant efforts on the part of players.   I do average damage, have a well below average K/D and well above average XP. I've no idea why, but playing a team game with a bit of damage farming on the side seems to work well for me. Case in point.

 

[Dampfboot]

2 hours ago, MrConway said:

 

I like your thinking, but do remember that the players are in fact already rewarded for dealing that damage with XP and credits.

 

But adding a supplementary achievement would indeed be a nice thing!

So why does WG continue to release constantly missions which require any number of kills? Why is the kill-assist ribbon not in the game yet? The game has only been release two and a half years ago. I assume all the resources are going into the Russian BBs?

[Vaderan]

55 minutes ago, xxNihilanxx said:

While in most situations I would totally agree with you there are still aspects of "killstealing" that are totally detrimental to the game. The situation that comes to mind is based around DDs and torpedos. I have lost count of the number of times when my torps were on course to hit and finish an enemy ship only to see a BB waste a salvo on the doomed vessel instead of shooting at a nearby one that was not in danger of being torped. Worse still is when a CV wastes a full torpedo drop on a ship that was about to eat torps instead of a full-HP ship a little way away.

 

A similar situation comes in the form of damage farming on ships that have torps heading in their direction. So many times I launch a great torp spread on an unsuspecting target only for half the team to start shooting at exactly that target causing an otherwise straightlining ship to turn and thus avoid deletion. I can hit F3 to call target on a ship and nobody will fire on it but launch torps in that ship's direction and the whole team decides to focus it. If I see a ship that looks like it will eat friendly torps I will avoid shooting at that ship for exactly that reason. I have even seen a team-mate shoot at a ship that was on course to be deleted by my torps, cause the target to avoid the torps and then get sunk himself by the enemy ship that he just managed to save. All for the sake of a few extra damage points.

I see your point from a personal point of view, however, it is a selfish one aswell. While torpedoes are the most reliable weapon in this game, once they make contact to the target, they are still as much in danger of failing to succeed, due to the target´s ability to (maybe) properly react to the torpedospread, as are BB shells to rng.

You might be the one exceptional DD/CV player, who always hits with his torpedoes, unless your target/kill is taken by someone else, however, from the perspective of the "killstealer": can you demand from him to wait for you to succeed with your torpedo attack? Simple answer: no. If this game teaches us one with almost every match we play: you simply cannot rely on your teammates abilities, sometimes even not on those of your division mates (and when RNG kicks in). In fact, this game is so much RNG, you basically cannot even rely on your own skills. So, i hope you understand, if i, in the end, do not agree with you. I´ve seen enough ships of any classes fail with their guns and/or torpedoes failing at point blank range (including myself, for that matter), to simply don´t rely on anything but in making sure, an almost dead target is killed...

[xxNihilanxx]

8 minutes ago, Vaderan said:

I see your point from a personal point of view, however, it is a selfish one aswell. While torpedoes are the most reliable weapon in this game, once they make contact to the target, they are still as much in danger of failing to succeed, due to the target´s ability to (maybe) properly react to the torpedospread, as are BB shells to rng.

You might be the one exceptional DD/CV player, who always hits with his torpedoes, unless your target/kill is taken by someone else, however, from the perspective of the "killstealer": can you demand from him to wait for you to succeed with your torpedo attack? Simple answer: no. If this game teaches us one with almost every match we play: you simply cannot rely on your teammates abilities, sometimes even not on those of your division mates (and when RNG kicks in). In fact, this game is so much RNG, you basically cannot even rely on your own skills. So, i hope you understand, if i, in the end, do not agree with you. I´ve seen enough ships of any classes fail with their guns and/or torpedoes failing at point blank range (including myself, for that matter), to simply don´t rely on anything but in making sure, an almost dead target is killed...

 

Trust me, decent DD players know when their torps are going to hit home and, quite usually, how many. In fact, most good players can look at the target ship's location and heading and be able to tell themselves if a torp spread is going to connect. Hence why I hold fire if I can see that about to happen. I'm not talking about torps fired in the general direction that are still 5-6km out from their target, I am talking about ships that are seconds from deletion. The target ship cannot possibly avoid the torps before they connect.

 

I understand the point you are trying to make but as this is a team game there comes a point whereby we HAVE to rely on our team-mates to a greater or lesser degree. Playing for the team versus playing for personal glory is still the best way to secure wins, despite the fact that the game contains enough potatoes to fend off another Irish famine.

[DFens_666]

2 hours ago, Vaderan said:

The discussion about kill stealing in a game, where a 1hp ship can still bring 100% of its firepower to bear, is completly obsolete and unnecessary, because there is no such thing like kill-stealing in this game. I´ve lost matches to ships which managed to survive for 10+ minutes with less than 1000 HP, because nobody cared about them, or considered them as "someone else´s kill". There is maybe nothing more annoying in this game, than witnessing a 500 HP BB disappear, with noone to keep it spotted, just to see the same ship reappear 10 minutes later with several thousand HP regained.

Any gun, any torpedo tube removed from the red team, is one step further towards your own team´s victory. Sure, it´s annoying, if your almost secured target for your "kraken unleashed" gets taken down by someone else, but on the other hand, anybody would be thankfull, if that target is killed before it can kill you.

The best way to remove players frustration in regards of these things, would be challanges, campaigns and missions whit requirements completly based on player personal depending achievements. Damage done, experience gained, hits scored with guns/torpedoes etc., maybe even position withing the own team. Rewards should be provided for the players degree on contibution to the game/match/team, not based on luck and a trigger happy finger for lucky shots.

 

Sure, in general your statement is correct. However, this gets totaly thrown over board when ppl are ACTIVELY not shooting! I cant understand how ppl are blind to this. I try to be as aware as possible what my team is doing. Noone shooting full broadside ships because reason? Why? What is making you hold your fire? Hopefully another low target suddenly popping up?

As i said in my other post: There is a difference if my guns are always reloading and i get a kill from a low HP ship which is fleeing, and someone who is sitting 6km behind his friendly BB who is tanking the enemies and u wonder when is your team actually helping u? And u grind him down to <5k health and suddenly the enemy is engulfed in a fountain of water because it feels like 40 shells are simultaniously splashing around/hitting him.

 

@xxNihilanxx is right about that Torpedo stuff. And CVs doing it is the worst. Towards the end when enemies are scattered around on the map, its effing useless to drop that burning low HP BB with your Torpedo bombers, when there is still another half full HP BB a couple of km behind him... Ive literally lost games because of crap like that. Not to mention ive lost several kills because torpedoes (several) were milliseconds away from hitting and another one is suddenly blapping the target. But i wouldnt even say its too bad when the target has lots of health left. But sometimes u do Yolo runs and u tell your team u get it, u launch torps, and suddenly the target is down to <8k health and u wonder "why did i do that again?"

[Vaderan]

So you can break it down into two groups of players: those who hold their fire on purpose, to "secure" the kill for their statistics, and those, who simply kill, to remove another member of the red team. The later one will always have my agreement on his behaviour (and yes, i full know this "and for what did i do this now?" situations. Of course, players doing nothing but waiting, are a pain and a burden for the team, and deserve to be removed from the game, alone for being bad teamplayers. However, you will never be able to tell for 100%, why they did hold their fire, if it is not completly obvious. You still have to seperate between the HE spamming, fast reloading cruiser/gunboat-DD holding his fire, and the 30 seconds reloading BB, loaded with AP, waiting for the target to shange direction and maybe provide a better target...

[Migantium_Mashum]

In my opinion...

You get a ship down to low HP and your going to get a kill when someone else fires the death blow. Is it really such a big deal? I would rather have, team play, victory even if all my hard work was taken by an ally.

What matters is that the enemy ship is put down meaning one less ship to fight and satisfy yourself in the knowledge that your work put the ship to low HP in the first place.

 

I have just had a rank game in my Kidd.. I took an enemy Benson down to 600hp by guns and our Benson finishes him off.. I go for Kagero taking him down with fire to about 1200hp and our Benson finishes him off... The Benson says sorry, but for why?.. We then team up together and between us I get 2 kills, an Amagi and Carolina with the Benson dropping another Bismarck already flooding from my torpedoes..we were victorious.

Victory however it is achieved is victory.

 

I have seen many games where allies are too far away to influence a game...