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VinSoft

New player looking for advice on lines

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Dead fellow players,

 

I have just over 1k battles done now and struggling to find a line to follow. I have included my stats below sorted by winrate for my top ships. 

 

Now, I really like the idea of the DD's. I played a stealth character in other games as well. Rogue types. So there is that. For WoWs I like guns more than torps. Guns give instant satisfaction I guess :). Dont like seeing a salvo of torps take a minute to reach target then see them miss again. 

I also like the punch of a BB, but not the slow reload and horrid dispersion. Just annoys me when I fire a salvo to see it miss, then wait 30 seconds for a reload. 

Cruisers I have a feeling against. They are out of the world's navies for a reason right? :) I just feel like they are obsolete or something. Can't describe it I guess. But then again, they outgun and outlive DD's, yet are faster and nimbler than BB's. 

 

So here I am, not really sure what to do. 

I like DD's with guns, but a torpedo salvo every now and then for lols is very welcome. I seem to do good in Podvoisky, but suck in Gnevny and Leningrad. I had fun in Nicholas, but can't get my current DD Mahan working. Gnevny and Mahan are both not the most like ships in their lines, so maybe the Mink / Benson will work better for me?

I like BB's with their big guns, but not the slow reload or dispersion. Yet the Bayern treated me well. New Mex as well. But I hate the Colorado and can't get Gneisenau to work for me either. Was hoping to get an Iowa sometime, but Colorado is stopping me from pursueing that. Since I apparantly can't play the tier 7 game well enough. 

 

Any thoughts? Thanks in advance for the input!

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Here is a general idea of what you should expect in each line:

Spoiler

Cruisers

 

US cruisers:

+Very good AA

+Superheavy AP shells at top tiers with the ability to citadel BBs at max range

+Decent turret traverse speed

-Slow shells

-No torpedoes (with the exception of tiers 4 and 5)

-High shell arcs

 

IJN cruisers:

+Slightly faster

+Good AP shells and high caliber guns

+Very good HE shells

+Long range torpedoes

+Decent shell velocity

+Good concealment

-Poor torpedo arcs (can only fire them backwards)

-Poor AA

-Slow turret rotation speed

 

German cruisers:

+Good range

+Decent AA

+Very good AP shells

-Mediocre HE shells

-Relatively low armor

 

Russian cruisers:

+Big range

+Very good shell velocity

+Low shell arcs

+Good for starting fires

-Poor AA

-Slow rudder shift

-Poor concealment

 

British light cruisers:

+Good rate of fire

+Excellent AP shells

+Single fire torpedoes

+Extremely fast heal

+Very good acceleration

-Very poor deceleration

-No defensive AA

-Very thin armor

-No HE shells

 

French cruisers:

+Decent speed

+Speed boost

+Fast rotating turrets

+Very good artilery range

+Long range torpedoes

-Mediocre armor (nonexistent at tier 5)

-Relatively poor concealment

-Low ammount of torpedoes

-Somewhat easy to citadel

 

Battleships

 

US Battleships:

+Excellent AA at high tiers

+Good armor

+Decent high tier dispersion

-Subpar secondaries

-Slow at low tiers

-Shorter range

-Slightly bigger dispersion at lower tiers

 

IJN Battleships:

+Fast

+Decent accuracy

+Longer range

-Somewhat lacking AA

-Slightly less armor

 

German Battleships:

+Fast turret rotation speed

+Difficult to citadel

+Good reload speed

+Excellent secondaries at higher tiers

-Short range AA

-Unreliable guns

-Relatively small caliber guns

-High dispersion

 

UK Battleships:

+Difficult to citadel at lower tiers

+Extremely strong HE

+Very good concealment at higher tiers

+Very good heal

-Slow turret traverse

-Mediocre AP at lower tiers

-Very poor deceleration

 

Destroyers

 

US destroyers:

+Very good turrets (fast reload, rotation speed)

+Best for hunting other destroyers at close range

-Medium/short range torpedoes at low tiers

-Slow shell velocity

-Rainbow arcs

 

IJN destroyers:

+High shell velocity

+Good damage per shell

+Long range torpedoes

+Good concealment

+Best for stealth torpedoing enemy ships

-Slow turret reload

-Slow turret rotation

 

Soviet destroyers:

+Relatively large caliber turrets which allows them to citadel ships easier

+Very fast

+Good gun range

+Good shell velocity

+Best for long range engagements

-Very short range torpedoes until high tiers

-Slightly slower rudder shift

-Poor concealment

-Slow turret traverse

 

 

German destroyers:

+Forward firing torpedoes at low tiers

+Decent turret traverse

+Fast reload speed

-Slightly shorter gun range

-Medium range torpedoes

 

Pan-Asian destroyers:

 

+Extremely short torpedo concealment

 

/A conbination of ships from different nations

 

-Torpedoes cannot hit destroyers

 

 

Carriers

 

US carriers:

+Larger squadrons

+Very good for specialized air superiority

+Good at specialized bombing

-Less squadrons

-Slow at low tiers

 

IJN carriers:

+More squadrons

+Very versatile

+Fast at low tiers

-Smaller squadrons

 

 

As for the ships you've mentioned:

If you want hybrids between torpedo boats and gunboats use either Pan asian, US or German destroyers and avoid Soviet (they only get good torpedoes at top tiers) and Japanese (never really get good guns) destroyers.

  • A benson is an improved mahan with even faster turrets and better concealment.
  • Colorado takes a while to get used to. You need to make sure to upgrade it since when stock, it's terrible. It has amazing guns and a good heal but terrible speed and armor, so always make sure to be near other battleships.
  • North carolina and Iowa are one of the best BBs in the game for their tiers. If you cannot make them work, then there's probably something wrong, so go for them, but do not rush.
  • German BBs are notorious for being innacurate and unreliable. For gneisenau you need to get in very close. Use that speed, small size and maneouverability to get close, and use your torpedoes and guns at point-blank.

 

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That sounds like USN or KM DDs to me. :Smile_Default:

If the problems you are having with Mahan are anything related to not hitting anything due to their gunarcs + slow shells then stop right there as this is the only thing that doesn't get vastly better with Benson, Fletcher and Gearing.

You should however stop with the RU DDs. They just aren't stealthy and more like cruisers (with a kiting HE spamming kind of playstyle) especially the Khabarovsk and due to their playstyle their torpedos should only be used in VERY rare occasions.

German DDs ae a good compromise of stealth, big guns with realatively good (for DDs) HE damage per shell (with their 150mm at Tier VI and VIII) and they got Hydro on top. Maybe you like it.

If you are gunorientated but still like Torpedos then Akizuki in the japanese techtree might be something for you. You have to work through mostly Torpedoboats (even though WG says they are gunboats) though.

 

For BBs I can suggest you the Japanese BBs. Those are on average the fastest and most accurate you can get for BBs (tier for Tier - there are always some exceptions like Iowa/Missouri).

German BBs won't get any more accurate so maybe stop there now. The german BB thing is durability (turtlebackarmour) and Secoundaries (11,6 km range when fully fitted out).

 

Edit: Oh and you don't need to bother with excel you can check your stats (also for individual ships) on websites like this:

https://wows-numbers.com/de/player/502424785,VinSoft/

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Thanks domen3, really appreciate the input.

 

I understand your line about the soviet DD's not getting good torps until the high tiers and the japanese DD's for their bad guns. Japanese DD's are out for me because of that. But my #1 winrate ship is the tier v soviet DD podvoisky. (??) I used it to climb the tree, but I really enjoyed it. I understand the other ships in that line should behave similarly. Or even better since the Pod has a 8 sec reload compared to the 5 sec on the other ships. But the Gnevny...... NO idea what I'm doing wrong with it. Playing it like the Pod, staying at the end of my gunrange and blasting away. But I get focussed by cruisers a lot, so maybe the higher tier MM has influence on my stats. I've been low tier (only tier VI vs tier VII and VIII ships) in all of my games in Gnevny though. I feel the Khabarovsk agrees with me more than the Gearing would. But the germans are definately an option for me it seems.

 

About the Colorado I was under the impression the armor was very good, hence the slow speed. I have upgraded the hull and FC as well. And artillery plotting room, the usual recommended upgraded from the wiki all installed. But it has terrible dispersion. It just won't hit. And if it does, it bounces too often. That really put me off chasing the NC and Iowa. And I agree, if one can't make those work, they're playing it wrong. 

I'll try to play the Gneis more aggresive. I tend to hang back a bit, use the plane for extra range and try to get some damage in. If I get close I usually end up getting focussed and die before reloading. Though, deleting a cruiser with 3 citadel hits puts a smile up :). 

 

Thanks again mate!

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19 minutes ago, Miessa3 said:

That sounds like USN or KM DDs to me. :Smile_Default:

If the problems you are having with Mahan are anything related to not hitting anything due to their gunarcs + slow shells then stop right there as this is the only thing that doesn't get vastly better with Benson, Fletcher and Gearing.

You should however stop with the RU DDs. They just aren't stealthy and more like cruisers (with a kiting HE spamming kind of playstyle) especially the Khabarovsk and due to their playstyle their torpedos should only be used in VERY rare occasions.

German DDs ae a good compromise of stealth, big guns with realatively good (for DDs) HE damage per shell (with their 150mm at Tier VI and VIII) and they got Hydro on top. Maybe you like it.

If you are gunorientated but still like Torpedos then Akizuki in the japanese techtree might be something for you. You have to work through mostly Torpedoboats (even though WG says they are gunboats) though.

 

For BBs I can suggest you the Japanese BBs. Those are on average the fastest and most accurate you can get for BBs (tier for Tier - there are always some exceptions like Iowa/Missouri).

German BBs won't get any more accurate so maybe stop there now. The german BB thing is durability (turtlebackarmour) and Secoundaries (11,6 km range when fully fitted out).

 

Edit: Oh and you don't need to bother with excel you can check your stats (also for individual ships) on websites like this:

https://wows-numbers.com/de/player/502424785,VinSoft/

Thanks Miessa3!

 

Indeed, the Mahan is annoying me with the gunarcs. Having to zoom out to even hit a BB and 12 seconds until the shell even hits puts me off. So USN DD line is out. Too bad though, I liked the idea of better AA and maneuverability. 

 

I understood about the germans that HE is a no-go? All about AP on broadsides. Maybe I've been playing the tier V german DD all wrong. The Gaede and Maass are all about AP with cruiser guns I thought. I am indeed gun oriented. Don't hate torps and a full salvo of torps on a sleeping BB is amazing fun. But usually they miss and it takes too long for them to reach their target for my levels of patience. Guns are insta-satisfaction :)

 

I have a Kongo, but given up on BB's. I just can't seem to play them. Looking at the link you provided, I should stay away from BB's. I just can't play them right it seems. Cruisers are my best WR so I should play them. But I just don't like the idea of the cruiser I guess. Can't really explain why. 

 

 

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14 minutes ago, VinSoft said:

Thanks Miessa3!

 

Indeed, the Mahan is annoying me with the gunarcs. Having to zoom out to even hit a BB and 12 seconds until the shell even hits puts me off. So USN DD line is out. Too bad though, I liked the idea of better AA and maneuverability. 

 

I understood about the germans that HE is a no-go? All about AP on broadsides. Maybe I've been playing the tier V german DD all wrong. The Gaede and Maass are all about AP with cruiser guns I thought. I am indeed gun oriented. Don't hate torps and a full salvo of torps on a sleeping BB is amazing fun. But usually they miss and it takes too long for them to reach their target for my levels of patience. Guns are insta-satisfaction :)

 

I have a Kongo, but given up on BB's. I just can't seem to play them. Looking at the link you provided, I should stay away from BB's. I just can't play them right it seems. Cruisers are my best WR so I should play them. But I just don't like the idea of the cruiser I guess. Can't really explain why. 

 

 

No by all means as long as you get penetraions on those DDs (especially the fat broadsides DDs like Gearing) with APs keep using them! i was talking about what happens when they start to angle. (which all decent DD players would do)

They also excell at punishing cruisers with their good ap penetration (just like the RUs). But on DDs as targets you find HE the better choice in a lot of instances (when playing against decent players) especially if you factor in the fires you set and modules you disable.

 

Kongo is the first ship in the Line of the IJN BBs where it starts to get good and fun. :cap_tea: (all low tier BBs aren't fun and WG made that so on purpose as we already have too many BBs in the game)

Most players trying cruisers are offset by their low survivability. The hordes of BBs with every BB being able to knock you out in one salvo means it takes a lot of investment in skill (and time building up that skill and experience) so most just don't bother and go BBs or DDs. You can see the same effect but more extreme on carriers. Those are just too hard to play (though the problem here isn't survivabilty but the gap in skill between good and bad players).

 

Edit: Oh and also don't take those numbers TOO seriously yet as they can be influenced by RNG and MM because the sample number is too low (under 100 battles in each ship).

For example for one ship you could've gotten 4-5 more matches where an awesome friendly carried the game like a rockstar and that would influence your WR by several %. (It gets more evend out and insignificant with higher numbers so you can see better how good your influence on the win in that ship really is)

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5 minutes ago, Miessa3 said:

No by all means as long as you get penetraions on those DDs (especially the fat broadsides DDs like Gearing) with APs keep using them! i was talking about what happens when they start to angle. (which all decent DD players would do)

They also excell at punishing cruisers with their good ap penetration (just like the RUs). But on DDs as targets you find HE the better choice in a lot of instances (when playing against decent players) especially if you factor in the fires you set and modules you disable.

 

Kongo is the first ship in the Line of the IJN BBs where it starts to get good and fun. :cap_tea: (all low tier BBs aren't fun and WG made that so on purpose as we already have too many BBs in the game)

Most players trying cruisers are offset by their low survivability. The hordes of BBs with every BB being able to knock you out in one salvo means it takes a lot of investment in skill (and time building up that skill and experience) so most just don't bother and go BBs or DDs. You can see the same effect but more extreme on carriers. Those are just too hard to play (though the problem here isn't survivabilty but the gap in skill between good and bad players).

So, if I play a german DD I should use HE on anything angled and BB's, but use AP on DD and CL broadsides? Should a german DD be smoke camping like an american or weaving in and out like a russian? I have the tier V T-22 now, but I'm not having any luck in it. Guns are nowhere near as good as my Podvoisky. Though a Geade and Maass usually destroy my Gnevny, so maybe I should stick it out. 

 

I see youtube movies where a Khabarovsk has 3k salvos on a tier IX or X BB. I never get above 300 damage with my HE on tier VII ships. Yet the guns are the same, the 130 mm with same HE damage. Am I doing something wrong there maybe? 

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With german DD you can't reliable smoke camping, because smoke time is the lowest.

I've never played t-22 (got the gaede from the last campaign) but it should be the lowest point in the line.

 

However, use of ap/he is correct for them (HE on anything angled and BB's,, use AP on DD and CL broadsides).

 

If you want a decent gunboat DD with usable torps, it's either USN or KM.

 

I  find that USN is more beginner friendly. With Mahan you can start to stealth torp. Benson is good and fletcher is great.

 

RU are generally (with some excemption) pure gunboats. On Khabarovsk you use heal instead of smoke. They have a completely different playstyle from other dds.

 

Seems like you have problem on you tier 7 ships.

 

That's because at that tier people start to play better, often they have developed captains, you can encounter tier 9.

 

Tier 7 is especially hard with dds (while for cruisers hard tier is 8), because on tier 8 dds can mount concealment module, so they all outspot you. PLus until tier 7 you only have Indianapolis and Belfast with radar, while with tier 8-9 you can encounter a lot of ships with it.

 

 

 

 

 

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24 minutes ago, VinSoft said:

So, if I play a german DD I should use HE on anything angled and BB's, but use AP on DD and CL broadsides? Should a german DD be smoke camping like an american or weaving in and out like a russian? I have the tier V T-22 now, but I'm not having any luck in it. Guns are nowhere near as good as my Podvoisky. Though a Geade and Maass usually destroy my Gnevny, so maybe I should stick it out. 

 

I see youtube movies where a Khabarovsk has 3k salvos on a tier IX or X BB. I never get above 300 damage with my HE on tier VII ships. Yet the guns are the same, the 130 mm with same HE damage. Am I doing something wrong there maybe? 

As long as you can get penetrations or even better citadels on cruisers use Ap (to know which target and where to aim to achieve that comes with experience), the german and russian excel at that due to their good penetration values on AP.

If you only get shatters or overpens and can't aim for another spot on the armour to get pens again then switch to HE. Sometimes it can be better to use HE to break DDs engines to prevent them from running away or forcing a damagecontrolparty just before Torpedos hit or to make sure to finish a low hp target and not suddenly get some weird bounces or shatters.

The German DDs are the best for contesting caps and bulying out enemy DDs with their Hydro. Be aware though that at short ranges of under 5 km the USN DDs have the advantage in reload and pure damage per minute.

Also when you find an enemy DD trying to cap sitting in smoke with your Hydro it is partytime! :cap_haloween:

The smoke is rather bad because of the low duration so it is really meant for selfdefence only. The USN DDs like it more to play the supporter and smoke up teammates. They also have the stealth to hide unlike RU, so it is neither of those playstyles you mentioned.

Yes the guns on the RU DDs are slightly more dangerous to DDs but that is meaningless as you have the stealthadvantage and can either outspot them to let your team shoot them up or choose the time when and where to fight them.

 

Those Khabas you see in videos most likely use the IFHE skill for more penetration on their HE shells to get more damage while shooting the stronger armoured decks of higher Tier BBs. You also neet to shoot the superstructure not the armourbelt. If you land enough shells there you will get higher damage numbers aswell.

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6 minutes ago, Favuz said:

With german DD you can't reliable smoke camping, because smoke time is the lowest.

I've never played t-22 (got the gaede from the last campaign) but it should be the lowest point in the line.

 

However, use of ap/he is correct for them (HE on anything angled and BB's,, use AP on DD and CL broadsides).

 

If you want a decent gunboat DD with usable torps, it's either USN or KM.

 

I  find that USN is more beginner friendly. With Mahan you can start to stealth torp. Benson is good and fletcher is great.

 

RU are generally (with some excemption) pure gunboats. On Khabarovsk you use heal instead of smoke. They have a completely different playstyle from other dds.

 

Seems like you have problem on you tier 7 ships.

 

That's because at that tier people start to play better, often they have developed captains, you can encounter tier 9.

 

Tier 7 is especially hard with dds (while for cruisers hard tier is 8), because on tier 8 dds can mount concealment module, so they all outspot you. PLus until tier 7 you only have Indianapolis and Belfast with radar, while with tier 8-9 you can encounter a lot of ships with it.

 

 

 

 

 

Cheers mate, I see your point. Tier VII seems to be a step for me indeed. Win rates and damage drop and my high point seems to be tier V gameplay. 

Come to think of it, I tend to play the same style. And I die often due to getting torped while sitting still in smoke or getting lured into chasing some DD into his team. So that's on me and I need to improve on that. 

 

I dislike the Mahan; it's not performing as well as the Farragut or Nicholas for me. Maybe because of the increasing fighting ranges and the loooooong time for the shells to reach the target. My playstyle in it is hiding in smoke and unleashing the orbital machineguns. That gets old though. And it doesn't have the power to fight something 1v1. I get destroyed by other DD's. Even the new pan asian DD's wreck my Mahan. Or radar, and suddenly being targeted by 5 ships' main guns. That's a quick game over for a camping dd. So I'm not looking for a camping DD. I'm looking for a dd with good guns, speedy and moving with some stealth. Island ambushing with torps is ok, but I usually launch torps for area denial. As I understand now, the Benson and Fletcher won't fix the slow shell velocity for me. Leaves me with RU and KM DD's. Looks like I need to free xp the T-22 or just grind it. 

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Exactly, USN have all floaty shells, but at close range they outgun anything (beside of russian dd, but they got spotted sooner than you)

 

Thing is, with usn you want fight other dds at close range (6 km or less). When you have sinked other dd, you can park in smoke and harass bbs from 10km, where their floaty shells still hit target.

 

some tips for DD in general

- Use premium smoke always (and premium repair if you can afford it).

- Take note of enemy radar ships and enemy dd (if they outspots you or not, which natione they are).

- IF you go in to cap, make sure you are supported, otherwise plan your excape route as soon as you're spotted (or even before if you are alone)

- if you spot a ship, but you aren't spotted, try to mantain distance while your cruisers shoot him.

- Don't smoke before you're spotted when approaching cap

- Don't smoke as soon as you're spotted, in cap fight almost no ship can outgun you (in a usn DD).

- Don't stop in smoke when you cap fight, because they will torp you

 

 

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20 minutes ago, Favuz said:

Exactly, USN have all floaty shells, but at close range they outgun anything (beside of russian dd, but they got spotted sooner than you)

 

Thing is, with usn you want fight other dds at close range (6 km or less). When you have sinked other dd, you can park in smoke and harass bbs from 10km, where their floaty shells still hit target.

 

some tips for DD in general

- Use premium smoke always (and premium repair if you can afford it).

- Take note of enemy radar ships and enemy dd (if they outspots you or not, which natione they are).

- IF you go in to cap, make sure you are supported, otherwise plan your excape route as soon as you're spotted (or even before if you are alone)

- if you spot a ship, but you aren't spotted, try to mantain distance while your cruisers shoot him.

- Don't smoke before you're spotted when approaching cap

- Don't smoke as soon as you're spotted, in cap fight almost no ship can outgun you (in a usn DD).

- Don't stop in smoke when you cap fight, because they will torp you

 

 

Thanks! Nice pointers indeed. I get torped so often hiding in smoke. And every time I tell myself to keep moving around, but it just happens so often. Same with radar. I think I should keep more distance, hency why I started the russian DD's. Podvoisky is my single best performing ship and had a blast in it. 

 

So unlike the russian DD's (If you're not shooting at anything, you're doing it wrong) the USN DD's should be more cautious? Use smoke for your allies while spotting for them. That means not using the guns, but having your allies able to use their bigger guns makes it worth the effort? Thing is, that's not netting any xp or rating. I get xp for doing damage, killing ships and capping. Right? 

 

Damage in a USN DD is low because of the need to keep hiding and supporting team. Killing not really an option because of the low uptime of the guns. Capping is best done by IJN and KM DD's. Where does that leave the USN DD? And with their gun arcs not even able to reliably hit BB's from 10 km there is no fun even. Though you seem to be doing fine in them, so I'm sure I'm doing it wrong. 

 

It seems the KM DD's can do everything the USN can, better even. USN only has the dpm but they can't use that dpm because they won't hit anything past 5 km. And within 5 km you get focussed / radared / hydro'd and killed. 

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40 minutes ago, VinSoft said:

Thanks! Nice pointers indeed. I get torped so often hiding in smoke. And every time I tell myself to keep moving around, but it just happens so often. Same with radar. I think I should keep more distance, hency why I started the russian DD's. Podvoisky is my single best performing ship and had a blast in it. 

 

So unlike the russian DD's (If you're not shooting at anything, you're doing it wrong) the USN DD's should be more cautious? Use smoke for your allies while spotting for them. That means not using the guns, but having your allies able to use their bigger guns makes it worth the effort? Thing is, that's not netting any xp or rating. I get xp for doing damage, killing ships and capping. Right? 

 

Damage in a USN DD is low because of the need to keep hiding and supporting team. Killing not really an option because of the low uptime of the guns. Capping is best done by IJN and KM DD's. Where does that leave the USN DD? And with their gun arcs not even able to reliably hit BB's from 10 km there is no fun even. Though you seem to be doing fine in them, so I'm sure I'm doing it wrong. 

 

It seems the KM DD's can do everything the USN can, better even. USN only has the dpm but they can't use that dpm because they won't hit anything past 5 km. And within 5 km you get focussed / radared / hydro'd and killed. 

The USN are more of a fleetsupport to smoke their allies and spot the torps, but they can hunt DDs on otherwise vacated flanks (they are still good at killing other DDs because of the DPM and it is easy to cap an empty cap).

You can think of both as DD hunters but for USN nearer to allied ships and for KM nearer the caps. USN smoke and their ability to spot torpedos (good manuverability on most of them) can turn the game more often (on top of hunting DDs and capping like the KM DDs also do). Those actions like smoking up allies and spotting torpedos might not give huge rewards immediatly but think of it that way:

If you win you will get an experience bonus. If you win more often due to those teamplay actions you get more xp out of it indirectly.

Also if you know there are only IJN DDs on the enemy team you can safely cap if there aren't too many enemyship to support it. Because that IJN DD have no hope of beating you in a gunfight.

IJN are not that much about capping (if cap is contested by enemy DD that you can't outspot by a good margin) but more as shadowing the enemys and getting in good positions for Torpedoruns on (mostly BB) players.

Also with KM DDs you can safly sit in smoke if needed because the HAS will spot the torpedos for you at a rather save distance, but always sitting in smoke shouldn't become your habbit.

You also seem to underestemate what a USN DD can do with that superior DPM and very fast turret traverse.

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Another (even fresher) noob here also having issues grasping playstyle on the KM DD line (only tier 4 and v. few battles!).

 

Some advice (thanks @SnailofDoom) I got was also to make use of islands etc to sneak shell-spam when in KM DD's (fav USN technique too!) ... although I'm guessing that is also to include a caveat to avoid camping and miss fulfilling one of the 'generic' DD roles of spotting :Smile_great:

 

Interesting points in here, thanks all:cap_like:

 

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5 minutes ago, Miessa3 said:

The USN are more of a fleetsupport to smoke their allies and spot the torps, but they can hunt DDs on otherwise vacated flanks (they are still good at killing other DDs because of the DPM and it is easy to cap an empty cap).

You can think of both as DD hunters but for USN nearer to allied ships and for KM nearer the caps. USN smoke and their ability to spot torpedos (good manuverability on most of them) can turn the game more often (other than hunting DDs and capping like the KM DDs also do). Those actions like smoking up allies and spotting torpedos might not give huge rewards immediatly but think of it that way:

If you win you will get an experience bonus. If you win more often due to those teamplay actions you get more xp out of it indirectly.

Also if you know there are only IJN DDs on the enemy team you can safely cap if there aren't too many enemyship to support it. Because that IJN DD have no hope of beating you in a gunfight.

IJN are not that much about capping (if cap is contested by enemy DD that you can't outspot by a good margin) but more as shadowing the enemys and getting in good positions for Torpedoruns on (mostly BB) players.

Also with KM DDs you can safly sit in smoke if needed because the HAS will spot the torpedos for you at a rather save distance, but always sitting in smoke shouldn't become your habbit.

You also seem to underestemate what a USN DD can do with that superior DPM and very fast turret traverse.

I have no problem with being support. I smoke up focussed teammates either way. What I worry about is mid to endgame; where ships are low on health. What can a USN DD do? I feel they need a team to be effective. Unlike my russian, where I can keep shooting and do consistent damage. 

 

I know you're right about underestimation: I see plenty of USN DD's perform well. But I just can't get it to work I think. Slow shells are one. But the knife fighting is also not something I'm good at. Apparently. Since I usually get wrecked by Gaedes, Maass, Fushuns. I do most of my damage while sitting in smoke. Am I supposed to be closer to the targets? Around 6 km? I die pretty fast often when I'm aggressive in my Mahan.. 

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13 minutes ago, VinSoft said:

I have no problem with being support. I smoke up focussed teammates either way. What I worry about is mid to endgame; where ships are low on health. What can a USN DD do? I feel they need a team to be effective. Unlike my russian, where I can keep shooting and do consistent damage. 

 

I know you're right about underestimation: I see plenty of USN DD's perform well. But I just can't get it to work I think. Slow shells are one. But the knife fighting is also not something I'm good at. Apparently. Since I usually get wrecked by Gaedes, Maass, Fushuns. I do most of my damage while sitting in smoke. Am I supposed to be closer to the targets? Around 6 km? I die pretty fast often when I'm aggressive in my Mahan.. 

The best Range is where you can use your DPM because you can hit the other DD reliably and the shells don't fly sooo long and still can dodge the enemy torpedos. (ofc you also have to take into account when supporting cruisers have line of fire on your and the range of enemy Hydro and radar).

So if we take an Fushun as example you can get as close as you can without risking him going for the ram which you can't avoid, because the Torpedos won't hit you. The closer you get the bigger your DPM advantage gets (though it won't get much better under 2-3 km) Of course you have to take the difference in hp between you and him into account too.

Firing from smoke is very uneffective in any DD and should only be used when you only have cruisers or Battleships left to shoot at and those threaten to kill you if they see you or if you are smoke up for other reasons anyway. (or if you fight another DD in your KM DD and spot him via HAS, then you can save some hp for later if you can afford losing one smokecharge.)

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I am sorry if this will come across as spam or even incorrect information, but I have written my take on a generalized description of the ship-lines in this game, but it is not in depth per se. I will go out on a limb here and post it, so I am sorry for the textwall:

 

Japanese ships in general:

The Imperial Japanese navy (IJN) is all about stealth, good speed, really good torpedoes and big calibre guns. The drawbacks are, not so effective armour schemes as other nations, very slow turret traverse, raised citadel on many ships and underwhelming AA.

 

Japanese DD:

The Japanese destroyers are the very essence of the Japanese playstyle, stay out of sight, whilst firing long-range, high damaging torpedoes at the enemy and only engage with your large calibre, slow turning guns when you safely can or if you are forced to (as in destroyer vs. destroyer engagements).

 

Japanese CA/CL:

The Japanese cruisers are all about the ambushes, either with torpedoes or their big, but rather slow turning guns and using their low detection to get in and out of the enemy's line of fire. The Japanese have good fire chance on their HE shells, but their AP shells are devastating when the opportunity presents itself.

 

Japanese BB:

The Japanese battleships are all about the guns! (The Yamato at tier 10 has the biggest calibre guns in the game.) This line has good speed, good torpedo protection, of course huge guns and are stealthy-ish for a battleship.

 

Japanese CV:

The Japanese Aircraft carriers are focused on their surface striking capabilities. With lower quality planes, fewer planes per squads, but more numerous in both the amount of squads and spare planes. This line is about being sneaky, unpredictable, strike where people don’t want you to and strike hard, and be everywhere. The carrier itself has really good concealment but poor AA. This line is mainly focused on their Torpedo Bomber squads.

 

American ships in general:

The American Navy (USN) is all about really good AA protection, good armour layouts and high gun arcs. Some of the drawback is decent armour schemes, but with a rather raised citadel and the gun arcs takes a bit of getting used to, since the shells stay in the air for longer than average, making it harder to hit targets at longer ranges. Most high tier (tier 7 and above) Americans have access to the longest lasting surveillance radar consumable in the game currently, making them able to spot unspotted enemy ships within radar range when activated. The American radar is longer lasting than other nations, but with less range to compensate. Special note, the American AP shells have better normalization values than other nations, making them able to penetrate armour when the target starts angling.

 

American DD:

The American destroyers are a hybrid, jack-of-all-trades type of ships. Good stealth, good torpedoes, good manoeuvrability, good guns and great smoke. Their only main weakness is their gun velocity is slow so they should only engage other DDs at a close a range as possible, unless safely in smoke.

 

American CA/CL:

The American cruisers have really good AA, high firing arcs with rather good accuracy, making them able to hit ships over islands, good HE fire chance and gets access to the surveillance radar consumable at higher tiers. Some of the drawbacks are, they are usually rather low armoured, with a rather exposed citadel, their firing arcs and the shell flight time takes a little getting used to and the gun calibre is rather small, but it is balanced out with rate of fire.

 

American BB:

The American battleships are your almost “cookiecutter” battleships, with good armour, excellent AA and torpedo protection, decent secondaries and large calibre guns with really good penetration, accuracy and damage. In the lower tiers however, these ships suffer from a terrible lack of speed. Some of the drawbacks are lower-ish speed compared to other nations and the citadel feels like it sits a tad bit higher than in other BB lines.

 

American CV:

The American CV line is with their high quality planes, few but high unit count squads, a fierce force in the air. The carrier itself has really good AA mounts, good speed but rather poor concealment and can feel hard to turn. This line has it’s focus on its dive bomber squads and somewhat on its fighters.

 

Soviet ships in general:

The Soviet Navy (USSR) is all about their long ranged guns with very fast shells, good HE fire chance, good accuracy and really good speed. Some of the drawbacks are low-ish armour for the lower to mid tiers and really bad rudder shift time. The higher tiers of Soviets cruisers also get access to the surveillance radar consumable, but unlike the Americans, the Soviets have more range at the expense of duration.

 

Soviet DD:

Soviet destroyers are the epitome of gunboats. Sail them more like a super fragile light cruiser than a DD. Forget trying to sneak around torping enemies from concealment at long range. Most have a higher detectability range than their torpedoes. They are awesome at shooting/burning down preoccupied BBs from as long a distance as possible. Just remember to keep dodging incoming fire!

 

Soviet CA/CL:

The Soviet cruisers are long range fire support cruisers. They are equipped with medium size calibre guns, good fire range, almost railgun like accuracy in some cases, with excellent HE fire chance. Some of the drawbacks are, almost none existing amour in the low to mid tiers, terrible rudder shift time and turning circle, and poor AA.

 

German ships in general:

The Kriegsmarine (KM/KMS) is good all-rounders, with really good armour layout, decent AA, fast, medium range torpedoes, good speed, some of the best AP shells in the game, good range, really good secondaries and the best hydroacoustic search consumable in the game currently. Some of the drawbacks are, poor accuracy and underwhelming HE fire chance and damage. Most German ships have a “turtleback” citadel armour scheme in place, making them very hard to citadel at closer ranges.

 

German DD:

German destroyers are similar in playstyle to the Americans but with the unique advantage of having hydro (with exception of premium Lo Yang). This makes firing from and into smoke a lot safer. They also have the best AP for DDs which can really hurt other DDs sailing broadside, and even lightly armoured cruisers!

 

German CA/CL:

The German cruisers are jack-of-all-trades with a focus on getting close enough to effectively use AP shells. Good at hunting DDs, providing good AA cover and can brawl other cruisers. This line has large calibre guns, good AA protection, tough armour, good speed and amazing AP shells. Some of the drawbacks are rather lackluster HE damage and fire chance and a rather slow turret traverse.

 

German BB:

The German battleships are your typical brawlers, with tough, “turtlebacked” armour, big guns, really good secondaries, good speed, good AA protection, torpedoes and the Hydro Acoustic Search consumable. Some of the drawbacks are rather inaccurate guns, this line tends to be larger ships, so a lot of superstructure, can feel rather slow to turn and they have a strip just above the main armour belt that tends to be very weak.

 

British ships in general:

The Royal British navy (HMS) is a very iconic set of solid ships. The armour is in the lower end, decent speed, good torpedoes and can be rather “high risk/high reward” ships, especially the cruisers. The British have access to a unique ammo type, semi-AP, which results in less penetration and damage on highly armoured targets, but they have some of the best HE shells in the game currently for their battleships. The British have the best Repair Party consumable and are the quickest accelerating of all nations.

 

British CA/CL:

The British cruisers are all about rate of fire and using smoke to their advantage. They have quick turning and firing guns, single-fire torpedoes, good AA protection and they accelerates the fastest of all the nations. This line also gets access to a really good heal. Some of the drawbacks are paper-thin armour with a very exposed citadel, rather slow shell speeds and only able to fire semi-AP shells.

 

British BB:

The British battleships are decently armoured, rather quick, good AA, decent secondaries and have access to the best Repair Party consumable in the game currently. This line, with its average sized guns for its class, are all about its HE shells and punishing bow-on battleships, cruisers and even destroyers, should they wander too close. Some of the drawbacks are rather low torpedo protection, most of the AA damage comes from the short range AA mounts and the guns is lacking range compared to other nations.

 

Pan-Asian ships in general:

Currently there is only a destroyer line for the Pan-Asians, so it may be a bit hard to tell what the general design thoughts are. But going of off how the destroyers handle, it would seem that most of the ships from this “nation” will be equipped with the unique deepwater torpedoes and have great concealment. The Pan-Asians are not a nation per se, but more a collection of gifted ships given to the Asian navies from other countries, such as America and the Soviets.

 

Pan-Asian DD:

Pan Asian destroyers are the newest line to be released. They have unique deep water torps that can't hit any other DDs. Although these torpedoes are supposed to have a longer range and harder to detect, they aren't really any different to normal torpedoes. This line have generally more than average smoke charges and a lower cooldown on said charges.

 

French ships in general:

The Marine Nationale/La Royale is all about high speeds, good HE fire chance, long range torpedoes, decent accuracy, long range guns and superb rudder shift times, making them highly manoeuvrable. The drawbacks are very thin, but spaced, armour, poor rudder health, rather highly placed citadel and mediocre AA protection.

 

French CA/CL:

The French cruisers is lightly armoured cruisers, but with spaced armour, very accurate, large calibre guns with great range and really good HE fire chance, really good speed and manoeuvrability and long range torpedoes. Some of the drawbacks are poor rudder health, mediocre AA protection and a citadel that seem to be accessible from almost any angle. The French cruisers get access to the Speed Boost consumable.

 

- if you disagree with any of the postings above, please let me know and I can try and correct it :)

 

Sincerely,

 

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@VinSoft it's the Soviet DD because no other DD will get close to the canon dps output due russian bias. You knew yourself, but what made you loose your conviction?  

7 hours ago, VinSoft said:

I seem to do good in Podvoisky, but suck in Gnevny and Leningrad. 

Spoiler

you-can-have-pizza-rolls-or-youcan-have-

Either way you'll still be able to utilyse the smoke screen playing as DD. Or join the badwagon of RN smoke only loosing on mobility and high base camo on the battlefield.

Edited by nimlock
Heh, my 100th post is helpfull for once :3

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8 hours ago, VinSoft said:

Cruisers I have a feeling against. They are out of the world's navies for a reason right? :) I just feel like they are obsolete or something. Can't describe it I guess. But then again, they outgun and outlive DD's, yet are faster and nimbler than BB's.

 

A lot of modern DDGs (Guided missile destroyers) in service today are as large and displace as much as many cruisers from the era this game is set! It's more that gun-oriented ships in general have died out than just cruisers, so don't let the lack of all-gun cruisers in modern navies* put you off playing them else you won't end up playing anything in this game!

 

Cruisers are definitely my favourite class in the game. They bring with them a steep learning curve but the combination of firepower, fast reload, maneuverability, stealth and often good AA make them the most fun for me. Would suggest the IJN and Soviet cruiser lines as being good for a beginner. German cruisers are the best for me but perhaps a little beginner unfriendly, something to look forward to for sure though!

 

You seem to be telling a story of struggling as you've progressed through the tiers, it could be worth considering staying with the lower tier ships that you've found success with and honing your game play before reattempting the ships you've struggled with. Improvement is always possible but it's difficult to improve in an environment where you're frustrated and not doing well.

 

* The last was only retired at the end of last year, a WW2-era Dutch cruiser was in service with the Peruvian Navy until last September!

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15 hours ago, nimlock said:

@VinSoft it's the Soviet DD because no other DD will get close to the canon dps output due russian bias. You knew yourself, but what made you loose your conviction?  

  Reveal hidden contents

you-can-have-pizza-rolls-or-youcan-have-

Either way you'll still be able to utilyse the smoke screen playing as DD. Or join the badwagon of RN smoke only loosing on mobility and high base camo on the battlefield.

Well, the Gnevny seems to suffer more from slow turrets than the Podvoisky did. I did some reading last night and found out there is some sort of bump between tier V and tier VII games. Some cruisers get radar and concealment is not as good. DD's get back in balance with tier VIII apparently. And I saw I've playing my Mahan all wrong as well. So no wonder I suck in it. 

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14 hours ago, rvfharrier said:

 

A lot of modern DDGs (Guided missile destroyers) in service today are as large and displace as much as many cruisers from the era this game is set! It's more that gun-oriented ships in general have died out than just cruisers, so don't let the lack of all-gun cruisers in modern navies* put you off playing them else you won't end up playing anything in this game!

 

Cruisers are definitely my favourite class in the game. They bring with them a steep learning curve but the combination of firepower, fast reload, maneuverability, stealth and often good AA make them the most fun for me. Would suggest the IJN and Soviet cruiser lines as being good for a beginner. German cruisers are the best for me but perhaps a little beginner unfriendly, something to look forward to for sure though!

 

You seem to be telling a story of struggling as you've progressed through the tiers, it could be worth considering staying with the lower tier ships that you've found success with and honing your game play before reattempting the ships you've struggled with. Improvement is always possible but it's difficult to improve in an environment where you're frustrated and not doing well.

 

* The last was only retired at the end of last year, a WW2-era Dutch cruiser was in service with the Peruvian Navy until last September!

I've tried cruisers as well. Only managed a 50% winrate on the Furutaka. You're saying the IJN line is beginner friendly, so I'll keep the Furutake in port and give it a try. 

 

Indeed, struggling up the tiers with tier VII as the largest hurdle. Winrates and succes drop steeply at tier VII for me. I just read yesterday that the gameplay changes at that tier, players getting better and ships get modules countering my tier V gameplay style. I've decided to hone my USN DD skills with the Nicholas and Farragut and then give the Mahan another try.

 

I was asking about advice since my top ships are all so different to me. My very best is a russian gunboat Podvoisky, but I do almost equally well in a german BB (Bayern) and a japanese torpedoboat (Mutsuki) or the USN hybrid Nicholas. But following each line one tier up drops my performance pretty bad. So I was hoping the forum could help me see a common denominator. Something each of these ships has that suits my playstyle. But it seems that denominator is tier V/VI. I should just improve my skills there it before moving up, so it would seem. 

 

Also, WG should implement dutch cruisers in the line, some of the best cruisers in the world were dutch made :)

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10 minutes ago, VinSoft said:

Well, the Gnevny seems to suffer more from slow turrets than the Podvoisky did. I did some reading last night and found out there is some sort of bump between tier V and tier VII games. Some cruisers get radar and concealment is not as good. DD's get back in balance with tier VIII apparently. And I saw I've playing my Mahan all wrong as well. So no wonder I suck in it. 

 

Thankfully I got through these ships before they split the Russian DD line into two parts (Gnevny used to be at tier 5 and was borderline OP), but looking at it the Podvoisky, Gnevny, Minsk, Kiev/Ognevoi progression is possibly the most awkward of any tech tree in the game. From T5-7 you really need Expert Marksman for the glacially slow turret traverse and, ideally, concealment expert, but once you decide to move on to either of the tier 8s the captain is immediately made redundant by no longer needing Expert Marksman and, in the case of the Kiev->Khabarovsk, needing Advanced Firing Training instead of Concealment Expert.

 

Also yes, DDs can suffer a little in those mid-tiers. Problem with T6/7 DDs is that they can be matched against T8/9 DDs which have access to an upgrade which drastically improves their concealment. Radar is also something that can ruin your day in a DD, but it's more than possible to cope with once you've had some experience with it.

 

2 minutes ago, VinSoft said:

I've tried cruisers as well. Only managed a 50% winrate on the Furutaka. You're saying the IJN line is beginner friendly, so I'll keep the Furutake in port and give it a try. 

 

Indeed, struggling up the tiers with tier VII as the largest hurdle. Winrates and succes drop steeply at tier VII for me. I just read yesterday that the gameplay changes at that tier, players getting better and ships get modules countering my tier V gameplay style. I've decided to hone my USN DD skills with the Nicholas and Farragut and then give the Mahan another try.

 

I was asking about advice since my top ships are all so different to me. My very best is a russian gunboat Podvoisky, but I do almost equally well in a german BB (Bayern) and a japanese torpedoboat (Mutsuki) or the USN hybrid Nicholas. But following each line one tier up drops my performance pretty bad. So I was hoping the forum could help me see a common denominator. Something each of these ships has that suits my playstyle. But it seems that denominator is tier V/VI. I should just improve my skills there it before moving up, so it would seem. 

 

Also, WG should implement dutch cruisers in the line, some of the best cruisers in the world were dutch made :)

 

It's good that you're playing several lines and several classes rather than sticking to just one, but the flip side of that is that there's more to take on and learn at once. Each class plays differently and there's quite a lot of intricacy to this game. Experience is the kingmaker, plain and simple! A mistake many make is to race to T10 as quickly as possible and find themselves lost once they get there or even approach it, far better to take your time and learn some tricks, what works and what doesn't etc. down in the lower tiers in a much more permissive learning environment.

 

You're already finding that higher tier gameplay has new things unique to the high tiers to learn, so I'd advise to drop down and attempt to tackle it when you have a firmer grasp of the core of the game and your classes. You're on the way and you'll get there, just don't rush. :)

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2 hours ago, VinSoft said:

I've tried cruisers as well. Only managed a 50% winrate on the Furutaka. You're saying the IJN line is beginner friendly, so I'll keep the Furutake in port and give it a try. 

 

Indeed, struggling up the tiers with tier VII as the largest hurdle. Winrates and succes drop steeply at tier VII for me. I just read yesterday that the gameplay changes at that tier, players getting better and ships get modules countering my tier V gameplay style. I've decided to hone my USN DD skills with the Nicholas and Farragut and then give the Mahan another try.

 

I was asking about advice since my top ships are all so different to me. My very best is a russian gunboat Podvoisky, but I do almost equally well in a german BB (Bayern) and a japanese torpedoboat (Mutsuki) or the USN hybrid Nicholas. But following each line one tier up drops my performance pretty bad. So I was hoping the forum could help me see a common denominator. Something each of these ships has that suits my playstyle. But it seems that denominator is tier V/VI. I should just improve my skills there it before moving up, so it would seem. 

 

Also, WG should implement dutch cruisers in the line, some of the best cruisers in the world were dutch made :)

Furutaka is better when using mostly AP. 203mm overmatch all tier 5 and less cruisers armor.

But the HE are also very nice, and it's the only cruiser in the IJN apart from Atago and Zao to have torps you can launch forward.

 

Aoba is a bit difficult to play as you only have 6 guns, but very fast reload.

 

Myoukou is amazing. It's squishy so beware, but the 10 guns are very dangerous and the ship is both fast and agile.

 

Mogami is very hard to play. Short range guns and very, very squishy ship. It's a powerful ship, but difficult.

 

Ibuki is a bit meh.

 

Zao is an oversized Myoukou with troll armor, incredible guns and 20 torpedoes.

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On 17-1-2018 at 6:30 PM, rvfharrier said:

Cruisers are definitely my favourite class in the game. They bring with them a steep learning curve but the combination of firepower, fast reload, maneuverability, stealth and often good AA make them the most fun for me. Would suggest the IJN and Soviet cruiser lines as being good for a beginner. German cruisers are the best for me but perhaps a little beginner unfriendly, something to look forward to for sure though!

 

Thanks so much for all your advice! I'm staying in the lower tiers for now, just learning more about the mechanics and getting the experience up. As a bonus, my stats should improve, which is always nice if when I start looking for people to play with I guess. 

 

Had a pretty good run with my Furutaka yesterday. Got focussed by two BBs and a CL but survived and escaped to my buddies. I have gotten used to getting wrecked in seconds in a DD so surviving with 60% HP was a nice change. Ofc, I messed up by going too far solo and allowing myself to get focussed though. So maybe cruisers aren't so bad at all. Did nice damage, two kills and had fun. 

 

So, looking at the wiki etc, it seems it's between russian and japanese cruisers for me and my skilllevel. From what I gather though, the russians can do everything the japanese do, but better? Guns are stronger and good AA. USN with the high arcs is out. I really dislike this on my Mahan. Germans and British is not beginner friendly I read. So, between russian and japanese, which would fit me better? I intend to play tier V/VI till I reach a 55% WR and then progress up to tier X eventually but I would hold on to good ships, like my Furutaka. 

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