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nambr9

Jack Dunkirk on Minotaur

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Hello.

 

As title says it, I am interested what build you are using on the Minotaur with Jack Dunkirk.

 

I feel it would be a waste not to use the special skills.

 

How does this look?

 

http://shipcomrade.com/captcalc/1000000001101010000001010000000119

 

I cant seem to find an alternative where I could actually invest also into the AA.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

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Weekend Tester
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Perhaps there's a reality in which Expert Marksman is required on a Minotaur, but I don't think one is it! While I haven't gone down the RN cruiser line yet, this is how I'd want Jack to look on my Minotaur and it's what I've used on the PTS:

 

http://shipcomrade.com/captcalc/1100000001001010000001000000100119

 

JoaT over EM, also gets a bonus on Jack and it means you get smoke, hydro and repair back faster (or radar if you're so inclined!) rather than a bonus to traverse on turrets that already rotate at half the speed of light. AFT because I would certainly want to make use of all of that glorious AA at even further range, at the expense of Vigilance which can largely be replicated for free with hydro and common sense, and then PM just to fill out the last point.

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1 minute ago, rvfharrier said:

Perhaps there's a reality in which Expert Marksman is required on a Minotaur, but I don't think one is it! While I haven't gone down the RN cruiser line yet, this is how I'd want Jack to look on my Minotaur and it's what I've used on the PTS:

 

http://shipcomrade.com/captcalc/1100000001001010000001000000100119

 

JoaT over EM, also gets a bonus on Jack and it means you get smoke, hydro and repair back faster (or radar if you're so inclined!) rather than a bonus to traverse on turrets that already rotate at half the speed of light. AFT because I would certainly want to make use of all of that glorious AA at even further range, at the expense of Vigilance which can largely be replicated for free with hydro and common sense, and then PM just to fill out the last point.

 

Yes I was considering that one... makes sense even tho not getting the benefit out of the "expert marksman".

 

You have to excuse me, because I dont have a PTS acc, so I am grateful for this tips ...

What about difference between AFT and manual AA ... since its not an AA support ship ... was considering manual AA.

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Weekend Tester
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Manual AA doubles the DPS of AA guns only of 85mm calibre or larger when you select a squadron with ctrl. Personally I'd prefer to not only increase the range of the AA to create a larger AA bubble to protect both myself and my teammates, but also because AFT affects all AA while Manual AA only your dual-purpose guns. On the Minotaur the majority of the DPS is found in the mid-range 76mm guns, not the dual-purpose. Same reasoning with the Hindenburg and why I took AFT over Manual AA there, the main bulk of the AA is of smaller calibre than Manual AA would affect and I wouldn't want to preclude it from being buffed!

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11 minutes ago, rvfharrier said:

 Same reasoning with the Hindenburg and why I took AFT over Manual AA there, the main bulk of the AA is of smaller calibre than

you got it wrong

Hindenburg is example ship of how to take manual AA and benefit (it hast most powerful large caliber DPS from cruisers)

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Have to agree with rvfharrier on this.

 

JD brings 3 bonus skills, all of which are useful on RN cruisers up to T9, but the EM skill is just not needed on Mino'. I am running my JD on my RN BB's where the EM is useful as is the JoaT (although smoke not... :) ).

 

With respect to AA spec - AFT is more useful than MAA for everything other than focus firing on 1 particular squadron - in T10 battles, if there is a CV, it will not be attacking with only 1 squadron until very late in the game and then it tends to require your ability to cntrl click between squadrons, I have found that the mino' tends to need to be very aware of the surface actions and flipping to change AA target is too much for me in practice over and above the ship dodging needed (but that might just be me).

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I´d say dont use Jack Dunkirk on Minotaur, he is somewhat wasted there.

btw - I play a lot of RN CL and I skill very very different then you. Vigilance and Smoke Screen Expert Ive never used (well, to be fair, I did Smoke Screen Expert prior to smoke change, and only on Leander, but its a waste tbh. That gives you already 5points. Adrenaline rush - questionable. Without that, you have 7 points. Enough to skill for AA.

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5 minutes ago, Murro_the_One said:

you got it wrong

Hindenburg is example ship of how to take manual AA and benefit (it hast most powerful large caliber DPS from cruisers)

 

The 55mm guns on the Hindenburg have higher DPS and longer range than the 105mm dual-purpose guns, which can have their damage output boosted massively by DFAA anyway. I'd prefer to extend the range of those, in addition to the 105s and the 20s, rather than just double the DPS of a minority of my AA and only then against a single squadron that has to be manually selected and which could be one among three or four in a wave.

 

Boosting the range of the secondaries is also a bonus!

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I agree Jack is wasted on Minotaur, Expert Marksman is of zero use on that ship and it's arguably his strongest benefit. I have a standard RN Captain on my Minotaur.

I use Jack on my RN BB's like I'm sure many do.

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6 minutes ago, rvfharrier said:

 

The 55mm guns on the Hindenburg have higher DPS and longer range than the 105mm dual-purpose guns, which can have their damage output boosted massively by DFAA anyway. I'd prefer to extend the range of those, in addition to the 105s and the 20s, rather than just double the DPS of a minority of my AA and only then against a single squadron that has to be manually selected and which could be one among three or four in a wave.

 

Boosting the range of the secondaries is also a bonus!

again, you wont find better example of using manual AA than it is Hindenburg. it is 4.5km vs 5 while manual AA usin 4 captain points doubles 132DPS.

Of course we are talking about AFT and "AA mod2" to get decent range.

ManualAA is only thing which puts AA speced Hindenburg next to DesMoines or Minotaur (as they would waste manualAA on their relatively weaker longrange guns)

so that was whole argument, if you will not use ManualAA on hindi, you should not use it on any other cruiser. (if you plan to have only one of them  it makes sense to chose any of those 2 as they are both strong)

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I've put Jack Dunkirk in command of my Belfast.

She can really use that faster traverse speed from his improved Expert Marksman skill, and I expect to get my money's worth from his improved Smoke Screen Expert skill as well. Whether I will take his improved Jack of All Trades when I reach 19 skill points, or go for Demolition Expert in the end, is currently an open question.

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I think people are possibly overlooking the utility of the bonus to Smoke Screen Expert on Jack Dunkirk. Having a larger smoke screen makes blindfire into the smoke more difficult, torp spreads into the smoke have to cover a wider area reducing the risk of eating several or even eating one at all, increases the usability of it to a team mate without the two of you tripping over each other, allows you to smoke up earlier without having to slow down as much and makes it easier to move around inside of without worrying about sliding out. Wouldn't and don't use it on any other ship type but having such a small smoke screen to begin with I'd say it's worth spending the two skill points.

 

As someone who doesn't use EM on BBs and so wouldn't get the benefit, Jack seems a better fit for the RN Cruisers than BBs offering more utility and bonuses.

 

41 minutes ago, Murro_the_One said:

again, you wont find better example of using manual AA than it is Hindenburg. it is 4.5km vs 5 while manual AA usin 4 captain points doubles 132DPS.

Of course we are talking about AFT and "AA mod2" to get decent range.

ManualAA is only thing which puts AA speced Hindenburg next to DesMoines or Minotaur (as they would waste manualAA on their relatively weaker longrange guns)

so that was whole argument, if you will not use ManualAA on hindi, you should not use it on any other cruiser. (if you plan to have only one of them  it makes sense to chose any of those 2 as they are both strong)

 

It's not 4.5km vs 5 though. You're focused only on the dual-purpose AA and ignoring the bulk of the DPS offered by the 55mm guns which, in addition to having more DPS, have longer range. For me it's better to extend the range of all of your AA, including your biggest and longest hitters, and increase the time enemy aircraft are subject to higher amounts of DPS than it is to double the DPS of exclusively your second biggest AA pool, only under certain conditions and that enemy planes will spend less time inside of.

 

My Hindie with AFT, BFT and AA Guns Mod 2 gets 271 DPS out to 7.2km, 446 at 6.5km and and 540 at 2.9km. Pop DFAA and that goes up to 796 at 6.5km and 890 at 2.9km. That's an utter death trap for planes to fly through and thanks to the extra range offered by AFT, enemy planes have to fly through it for longer to strike me and I can much better perform area-defence for team mates around me.

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Smoke Screen Expert had a bit more appeal but lost its charme with the increase to RN cruiser smoke activation time. Jack of all Trades with the High Calibre signal provides a nice reduction for the smoke cooldown almost on Pan-Asia level of perma smoke. Unfortunately because Expert Marksman provides ONLY 0.155 s shorter turret turning time for the whole 180° it's absolutely not worth it. That basically leaves you with just JoaT and probably SSE for Minotaur or the other RN cruisers. As a sidenote: for the RN BBs both JoaT and EM would be interesting perks.

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I currently have him captaining the Monarch.

He is a pretty strange dude with those "extra" skills, seems that in whichever class u put him , u r gonna NOT get the advantage of at least 1 of the 3 of them.

Maybe some day the British DD line becomes available, he will  perform best in them. (depending on how slow the turret traverse will be)

Maybe not.

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1 hour ago, rvfharrier said:

The 55mm guns on the Hindenburg have higher DPS and longer range than the 105mm dual-purpose guns, which can have their damage output boosted massively by DFAA anyway. I'd prefer to extend the range of those, in addition to the 105s and the 20s, rather than just double the DPS of a minority of my AA and only then against a single squadron that has to be manually selected and which could be one among three or four in a wave.

 

Just to add different point of view. Problem with your approach emerges the very moment you get shot at. 55mm don't stay alive for long on Hindenburg, while 105mm are much more resistant to enemy fire. Early in battle 55s have some potential, but longer the battle lasts they become more and more irrelevant, thus focusing on 105mm makes more sense, from self defense perspective.

Range is important only if you intend of covering allies with your bubble, which in randoms have problems of its own.

And in any case if CV focuses you only escape from certain death can be made with DF help.

Just my 2 Eurocents.

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Sitting currently on KGV and Duke of York, where EM is needed.

On Mino EM is completely unnecessary.

 

Manual AA on Mino (or Hindenburg for that matter) is overkill, you get to see a CV in 1 out of 10 battles, and there is a good chance he will avoid you like the plague (funnily enough, thinking that you are probably heavily AA specced) anyway.

Same reason I use hydro on both Hindenburg and Kutuzov. You get to use it more often than DefAA given the lack of carriers in top tiers.

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3 hours ago, nambr9 said:

 

Thoughts?

 

 

Ditch the expert marksman (wtf you have like 5s turret traverse) and vigilance (hydro???) and use AFT

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46 minutes ago, tank276 said:

He is a pretty strange dude with those "extra" skills, seems that in whichever class u put him , u r gonna NOT get the advantage of at least 1 of the 3 of them.

 

I figured that all those three improved skills - Expert Marksman, Jack of All Trades and Smoke Screen Expert - should be rather useful on the Belfast; or, for that matter, on the Fiji. The turret traverse on those ships is slow enough that any extra help is most welcome; especially since they have a tendency to out-turn their own turrets. If I skip the Demolition Expert skill in favour of taking all three of those special skills, he could actually serve on both ships.

But maybe I've figured wrong?

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34 minutes ago, Skyllon said:

 

Just to add different point of view. Problem with your approach emerges the very moment you get shot at. 55mm don't stay alive for long on Hindenburg, while 105mm are much more resistant to enemy fire. Early in battle 55s have some potential, but longer the battle lasts they become more and more irrelevant, thus focusing on 105mm makes more sense, from self defense perspective.

Range is important only if you intend of covering allies with your bubble, which in randoms have problems of its own.

And in any case if CV focuses you only escape from certain death can be made with DF help.

Just my 2 Eurocents.

 

That's the only real downside, but even assuming all 55mm guns are dead (which is very unlikely) then I'd still prefer to have the extra 20% range on my 105s because it's a longer period of time that enemy planes will have to fly through and be subject to them and a much larger area within which I can shield team mates, then with the option of DFAA tripling the damage output on the 105s suddenly Manual AA becomes a bit redundant anyway. It does mean sacrificing Hydro, which is a shame, but for me it's a price worth paying.

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I use this:

Spoiler

World_of_Warships_Screenshot_2018.01.16_

 

- if I had the chance I would swap PM for PT

- neither EM nor SSE is really needed with Mino, JoAT on the other hand is very useful, AR is mandatory

- BFT is the last skill I picked to deny CV attacks on me + my teammates and to better prevent plane spotting, SI is mandatory, I don't see the point in Vigilance considering you have hydro

- AFT + AA range upgrade is to increase your AA range beyond your air spotting range which is incredibly useful as you're capable of denying plane spotting every time, CE is obviously mandatory

 

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Expert Marksman, Smoke Screen Expert and Vigilance is kind of a waste on Minotaru.. especially EM. 

 

MFCAAA and RPF are pretty good tho

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1 minute ago, Affeks said:

Expert Marksman, Smoke Screen Expert and Vigilance is kind of a waste on Minotaru.. especially EM. 

I like having the extra room from SSE to maneuver, and I'm often providing smoke cover for my div as well.  There are so many different options for Minotaur builds that it comes down to personal preference.

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1 minute ago, ppraet said:

I like having the extra room from SSE to maneuver, and I'm often providing smoke cover for my div as well.  There are so many different options for Minotaur builds that it comes down to personal preference.

If playing like that in divs then sure, I find the room to maneuver to be more than enough already. 

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