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Survivability Expert cmd skill and Repair Party consumable

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I just wanted to know if the lack of synergy between SE commander skill and the repair party consumables is intentional or if its a bug?

 

Ran some tests in the training room ramming my Minotaur into poor Eries and found that my repair party only healed 20 784 HP instead of the 22 460 HP the consumable tool tip and my own calculations tried to indicate. I repeated it 4 times in the same training battle and got the exact same result all 4 times. So where is the 1680 HP that was promised me by the tooltip on my heal? ofc I was running dreadnought flag. I didnt take screenshots but will provide if needed.

 

I think this is quite serious as on Minotaur I think having 70-84 extra HP per second when healing is a make or break when deciding if SE is worth it on the ship. With signal the 84 HP per second adds up to 1680 HP per full heal and theoretically 6720 HP if all 4 heals repair 100% dmg. To put that 1680 HP into perspective that alone equals 3.8% of a stock Minotaur's full health. Thats almost 4% of a ships full health worth of misleading tool tips.

 

I dont know what is bugged, the tooltip or SE skill.. or both. What I do know is that this is a misleading tool tip that needs to be fixed. Im sure theres at least 4 Khabarovsk captains that believe that their repair party and SE has synergy.

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To actually discover this makes me really mad, as back during the CW season I did a ton of theory crafting on SE on the tier 10 Cruisers to find if it was worth on any of them. Not untill now do i find out Heals and SE doesnt work together despite that part being one of the important factors whether SE was worth on any of them or not. 

 

Thank you @tmGrunty for mentioning this simple and minor yet quite important issue to us min-maxers

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but SE doesn't add anything to the repair party, it adds to your total health at the start of the battle...

the only thing that adds to the repair party is india delta signals.

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41 minutes ago, Salentine said:

but SE doesn't add anything to the repair party, it adds to your total health at the start of the battle...

the only thing that adds to the repair party is india delta signals.

Well no tooltip says that about SE and the tooltip for Repair party (both in battle and in port) shows an increase in healing per second after getting SE.

 

For example before picking SE my Repair Party II consumable tool tip says "heals 1039 HP per second" after getting SE it clearly says "heals 1123 HP per second".

 

So while yes what you say about how it adds HP after battle starts may be true, it still doesnt explain why the tooltip changes to something it does not do.

 

The HP from SE is added and shown in port... So idk if it really is added at the start of the game, tbh it shouldnt matter anyway since SE is supposed to increase max HP, not give you a little extra "buffer HP" or whatever. If so then SE tool tip should explain it. Repair party is supposed to heal and amount based on max HP so even if HP is added after battle starts it should still heal based on "current max hp".

 

Regardless there is a bug in the Repair party tool tip that needs to be fixed

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I just quote Eurobeat/Yuro form his newest video (below in the comments)

Quote

EDIT: Why I took SE, Pretty straightforward, what other skill worth taking that you can fully utilize apart from SE? BoS? It gives very negligible difference after WG shortens the maximum duration of fire on Cruisers & DDs. Vigilance? Does it matter as DD avoids you regardless? You can slot Hydro anyway. BFT? CVs are dead. Spare 1 extra point and take IFHE? You are in the wrong channel. SE on the other hand increases the amount of damage your ship can take, because it also affects how much health you can recover on every heal (Yes, SE affects that) and couple that with India Delta flag (More HP recovered/heal) you can absorb alot of damage. I've tanked more than 80k damage once in my DM and lives. Beside, what better insult you can show to the enemy from dominating the match using a SE equipped Cruiser of all things, kapp.

 

Normally he knows the game quite good.

(and ofc the video)

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8 minutes ago, Salentine said:

well the tooltip is wrong, CE only adds hit points to your total at the start of the battle...

http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Commander#Survivability_Expert

and from in game :- where does it says works with repair party?

pEvS5WL.jpg

This. SE has nothing to do with the heal ability. You wil be able to heal the same amounts with or without SE.

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I keep failing to see why anyone would waste 3 perfectly good captain skill points on such a useless and trivial skill for a Cruiser tho... For a DD, I can understand and the addition is significant, but for a Cruiser (since a DD can fight from stealth with torps only and easily disappear back into concealment, Cruisers have to shoot, so they will be insta-killed the moment they fire their next salvo even IF they manage to hide for a time, which is not very likely either)? It is just a matter of being a 1 shot kill to anyone (even the DD's) in any case so what is the point?:cap_hmm:

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18 minutes ago, McCracken666 said:

This. SE has nothing to do with the heal ability. You wil be able to heal the same amounts with or without SE.

image.png.37f28585f9aac1953378eff6801380c7.png

Repair party is based on your ship's maximum hit points. Increasing the maximum hit points should indeed increase the heal per second.

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24 minutes ago, deadly_if_swallowed said:

image.png.37f28585f9aac1953378eff6801380c7.png

Repair party is based on your ship's maximum hit points. Increasing the maximum hit points should indeed increase the heal per second.

I havent searched proff of this but it has been up before. My findings are the heal dosnt care whether you have SE or or not.

 

39 minutes ago, RAHJAILARI said:

I keep failing to see why anyone would waste 3 perfectly good captain skill points on such a useless and trivial skill for a Cruiser tho... For a DD, I can understand and the addition is significant, but for a Cruiser (since a DD can fight from stealth with torps only and easily disappear back into concealment, Cruisers have to shoot, so they will be insta-killed the moment they fire their next salvo even IF they manage to hide for a time, which is not very likely either)? It is just a matter of being a 1 shot kill to anyone (even the DD's) in any case so what is the point?:cap_hmm:

I think its worth it on some cruisers, etc the Zao, it has a very low HP pool and 3500 extra hit points can prove to be make or break in the heat of battle.

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Yeah, I am familiar with the theory. But you know even 1 Shima AP shell does 2200 damage - Receive 2 hits and you're done for, Cruisers and BB's do much more so the additional 3500 will not get you past firing one more volley, which is unlikely to change anything (15 seconds more time to live?). So if you have not managed to make your mark in the game by then, this will not enable you to do it either. Things were different way back when, when stealth firing was still possible so even wounded Cruisers could still impact the game, if playing carefully. As it is now, you will be focused instantly and will not be very likely to survive 5 seconds past the situation where this 3500 keeps you afloat. To put this in perspective, 3500 HP is so small that even a tier 2 DD could sink you with ease. :cap_old:

 

It seems to me that it would be more beneficial to invest the 3 points into a Demolition Expert, Vigilance or perhaps Basic Firing Training instead. DE to give you more damage potential for the time you DO stay alive (4-5 additional fires set per game will easily give you tens of thousand additional damage done), BFT helps you to better defend yourself from Air attack thus limiting damage taken from CV's (less torp and bomb hits on you) and Vigilance of course helps avoid torpedo hits. If you get hit by a torp SE will not save you after all. Nearly every other 3 point skill seems more useful, Torpedo Armament Expertise will allow you to shoot more torps thus increasing your overall damage potential per game significantly. The trade-off in terms of reduced damage potential and / or defensive capability just seems too great. :cap_hmm:

 

For example: IF you choose the Torpedo Armament Expertise instead, this will allow you to reload your torps 10% faster = This in turn allows you to fire extra salvos of torps each game. If even 1 of them hits, you can easily do +21.000 extra damage. Now instead you would exchange that to 3500 HP for yourself, which will enable you to do squat. Similarly, Vigilance skill allows you to dodge incoming torps including the DW, if you dodge even 1 torp, you will already have saved up to 20k+ HP for yourself, which is significantly more than the measly 3500 you will get with SE and will allow you to keep fighting much longer and in better health. Vigilance also works all the time potentially saving you from multiple devastating torp hits while SE only does a one-time 3500 save (of course it probably won't even save you, if the last hit received does enough damage you will be toast anyway). All the same goes for DE and BFT skills, they yield much more continuous beneficial bonuses to your defensive and / or offensive capabilities than SE ever will.:cap_rambo:

 

Oh yeah, there is also 1 more skill you could consider, which is the Superintendent skill, it gives you a extra heal instead, which returns you much more HP than SE and also gives you extra charge on all the other consumables you are mounting. +1 heal? Infinitely more useful.:cap_cool:

 

In short, it is quite pointless to fiddle with plugging a small leak in the kitchen sink, while you have a 6 meter torpedo-hole flooding the engine room. :Smile_smile:

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Interesting ... if the Damage Repair Party heal doesn't scale with Survivability Expert as I thought it should (since SE increases the maximum HP that the DRP supposedly heals percentage based, not by a set amount), then my dilemma about choosing between SE or AFT for my Kidd captain is resolved.

 

Btw @Affeks, when opening a forum thread about what appears to be a game bug, it helps to tag WG staff like @Sub_Octavian, @MrConway, @Tuccy or @Kandly to ensure the people that matter take a look at it. Sending a PM also does the trick.

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1 hour ago, McCracken666 said:

My findings are the heal dosnt care whether you have SE or or not.

Except it does affect the heal. It verifiably changes the tooltip (see below). Whether the numbers given by that listing is correct is another problem but might be an issue found by OP (tooltip incorrect? heal not applied correctly in battle?).

 

 

Repair Party consumable tooltips in port:

Ship with SE without SE
Nelson Nelson_wSE.png.4390d7b706ec37048b8b4aaa54aed529.png Nelson_woSE.png.a1f61a429174aa28f8e436f7140fdfe7.png
Warspite Warspite_wSE.png.1b13e42ad9b9967da78c96beb8851fac.png Warspite_woSE.png.24e47dc6a8701569b7653b99b6e6e959.png
Tirpitz Tirpitz_wSE.png.d64cfaca34c1b3ef20ab840bc19c74b9.png Tirpitz_woSE.png.09e3d3c86373fb0f2843b593af6b1eb8.png
Khabarovsk Khaba_wSE.png.d9efe075c33f380e3ae390d4c9dd3ac7.png Khaba_woSE.png.b995152436dba889b199978a9fcce8c4.png

 

 

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OMG... we have a new bug! Not like they are rare or something...

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6 hours ago, Seeigel said:

I just quote Eurobeat/Yuro form his newest video (below in the comments)

 

Normally he knows the game quite good.

(and ofc the video)

I know the game very well, but I had to do actual ingame tests to find this to be wrong. Anyways tanking 80k damage in DM is possible even without SE. 

 

4 hours ago, Salentine said:

and from in game :- where does it says works with repair party?

pEvS5WL.jpg

Well

This is with my Commander equipped

YIX4bOSxTA2C4DhDt9Mnhw.png

And without Commander

q2m6D0oNTGWvO9i1vFnwkA.png

Yet the effect the heal has in battle is no different.

The tool tip also shows 1123 HP per second in battle as well.

 

1 hour ago, Aotearas said:

Btw @Affeks, when opening a forum thread about what appears to be a game bug, it helps to tag WG staff like @Sub_Octavian, @MrConway, @Tuccy or @Kandly to ensure the people that matter take a look at it. Sending a PM also does the trick.

Noted. Should I give them a PM or is that tag enough?

1 hour ago, Z_OnkelE said:

Except it does affect the heal. It verifiably changes the tooltip (see below). Whether the numbers given by that listing is correct is another problem but might be an issue found by OP (tooltip incorrect? heal not applied correctly in battle?).

 

 

Repair Party consumable tooltips in port:

Ship with SE without SE
Nelson Nelson_wSE.png.4390d7b706ec37048b8b4aaa54aed529.png Nelson_woSE.png.a1f61a429174aa28f8e436f7140fdfe7.png
Warspite Warspite_wSE.png.1b13e42ad9b9967da78c96beb8851fac.png Warspite_woSE.png.24e47dc6a8701569b7653b99b6e6e959.png
Tirpitz Tirpitz_wSE.png.d64cfaca34c1b3ef20ab840bc19c74b9.png Tirpitz_woSE.png.09e3d3c86373fb0f2843b593af6b1eb8.png
Khabarovsk Khaba_wSE.png.d9efe075c33f380e3ae390d4c9dd3ac7.png Khaba_woSE.png.b995152436dba889b199978a9fcce8c4.png

 

 

Thanks for more examples. Yes the tool tip shows increase in healing, but do a test in a training room and youll see it doesnt actually heal the specified amount.

1 hour ago, 22cm said:

OMG... we have a new bug! Not like they are rare or something...

ikr

 

2 hours ago, RAHJAILARI said:

...

This is not a discussion thread about the viability of the skill. See this thread if youre into discussing it:

 

 

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7 hours ago, Salentine said:

but SE doesn't add anything to the repair party, it adds to your total health at the start of the battle...

(...)

...and the heal is based off said total health (it heals certain % of your max hp per tick), so increasing your max hp indirectly increases the heal...

or rather SHOULD increase it and is shown to increase it in port... but then apparently doesn't work in the game. No matter how you look at it, there's a bug. Even if it was not supposed to increase heals (unlikely to be the case) then we at least have a visual bug in port.

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15 minutes ago, Affeks said:

Yes the tool tip shows increase in healing, but do a test in a training room and youll see it doesnt actually heal the specified amount.

As far as I see it that is indeed the actual issue here. The bug occurs in the Repair Party consumable and not the SE talent. The numbers shown in the tooltip and the content in the wiki are AFAIK the intended interaction. The combined performance in battle seems to have some problems.

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Good catch. Its rather interesting, that things like this go unnoticed for so long.

 

1 hour ago, Affeks said:

Noted. Should I give them a PM or is that tag enough?

 

I´d say give it a day and see if someone reacts. They usualy do if they notice, they have been tagged, and its an important issue (I´d call this one here important)

 

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Hi all,

 

10 hours ago, Affeks said:

I just wanted to know if the lack of synergy between SE commander skill and the repair party consumables is intentional or if its a bug?

 

Ran some tests in the training room ramming my Minotaur into poor Eries and found that my repair party only healed 20 784 HP instead of the 22 460 HP the consumable tool tip and my own calculations tried to indicate. I repeated it 4 times in the same training battle and got the exact same result all 4 times. So where is the 1680 HP that was promised me by the tooltip on my heal? ofc I was running dreadnought flag. I didnt take screenshots but will provide if needed.

 

I think this is quite serious as on Minotaur I think having 70-84 extra HP per second when healing is a make or break when deciding if SE is worth it on the ship. With signal the 84 HP per second adds up to 1680 HP per full heal and theoretically 6720 HP if all 4 heals repair 100% dmg. To put that 1680 HP into perspective that alone equals 3.8% of a stock Minotaur's full health. Thats almost 4% of a ships full health worth of misleading tool tips.

 

I dont know what is bugged, the tooltip or SE skill.. or both. What I do know is that this is a misleading tool tip that needs to be fixed. Im sure theres at least 4 Khabarovsk captains that believe that their repair party and SE has synergy.

 

Nice find! :Smile_honoring:

 

BTW, I suggest you post this on Reddit as well ASAP!

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/WorldOfWarships/

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

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Hi all,

 

13 minutes ago, Affeks said:

Can someone else do it, I never really touch reddit at all

 

OK... I posted it for you... :Smile_Default:

 

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

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13 minutes ago, Leo_Apollo11 said:

Hi all,

 

 

OK... I posted it for you... :Smile_Default:

 

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

Reading some of the first comment and I already remember why I never touched Reddit...

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Hi all,

 

1 minute ago, Affeks said:

Reading some of the first comment and I already remember why I never touched Reddit...

 

The only thing that matters is that proper people (like @Sub_Octavian) see the post... just ignore the vicious comments... :Smile_Default:

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

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1 minute ago, Leo_Apollo11 said:

Hi all,

 

 

The only thing that matters is that proper people (like @Sub_Octavian) see the post... just ignore the vicious comments... :Smile_Default:

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

I do, Ill help upvote and downvote relevant posts and keep an eye out for helpfull insight.

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11 minutes ago, Affeks said:

Reading some of the first comment and I already remember why I never touched Reddit...

 

Agree. That valinrista is making a total fool out of himself - and yet thinks, he is smart. How he fails to understand, that this applys to DDs with heal aswell, is the best part. Just wow...

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