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Rokko1v

yamato or conqueror?

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ahoy folks,
quick question..

im about to grind a bb line and im torn between yamato and conqueror.
i get mixed messages from youtube etc  about how well they perform.
i have fun with both lines tier 5 and 6 so far but effectively only really time to grind one out.

what would you suggest as first tier x battleship?
 

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As first? Conqueror. Its much more noob-friendly, you can get away with many mistakes, Yamato requires the most skill and map awareness from all of the BBs.

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4 minutes ago, Commander_Cornflakes said:

Annoying HE spammers ^^

Annoying HE spammers with cloaking devices and no citadel

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Just now, Captain_Placeholder said:

Annoying HE spammers with cloaking devices and no citadel

Exactly the reason @Rokko1v should go the Conqueror route.

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Just now, Captain_Breeze said:

Exactly the reason @Rokko1v should go the Conqueror route.

And transfer all the bad habits you pick up from CQ to other Battleships. If you want a more forgiving BB line to go up but one that still take proper skill; Go German BB line.

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i heard about the conqueror being overpowered at one point but didnt they nerf it?
and the reason i dont go with a german bb is, that the Großer Kurfürst is more of a brawler, aka up close ish?
i recall that from some video, i watched too many to count by now..
and tbh i dont like up close, same reason why i will most likely never be a good dd player, i just panic

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@Captain_Placeholder, true mate.....was only thinking that it was easier in the Conqueror, but the Yamato is a beast.....So @Rokko1v you need to ask yourself how much you want to learn....Personally, I'm not into BB's as I find CA's more fun and involved.....and dd's too.

 

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5 minutes ago, Rokko1v said:

i heard about the conqueror being overpowered at one point but didnt they nerf it?
and the reason i dont go with a german bb is, that the Großer Kurfürst is more of a brawler, aka up close ish?
i recall that from some video, i watched too many to count by now..
and tbh i dont like up close, same reason why i will most likely never be a good dd player, i just panic

They "nerfed" the CQ in the most minor way possible. so she is still OP camping invisible fire sniper.

 

The Currywurst cant be play as either close range brawler or mid range, Preferable Midrange cause she is so large

 

Yamato is a fun lolpen machine, 18inch guns are life.

 

This is why the CQ is hated.

 

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Yamato first.

The whole line will be more new-player friendly.

IJN guns are accurate and hard hitting, with RN BBs you can't hump borders (which you shouldn't do anyway) and still be effective.

 

But here's a sum-up of both lines and the t10 ships they end up with so you can decide for yourself (I probably forgot a lot of things, but this should do for a general idea)

 

IJN (tier 5+) & Yamato:

Pros :

  • Accurate
  • Great shell velocity
  • Great firing range
  • Shared best HE performance, best or 2nd best depending on tier
  • Tier 8+ great torpedo protection
  • Yamato has highest caliber in game - 460mm - allowing her to use overmatch mechanic (no autobounces) on far more targets than any other ship can
  • Good speed for a BB
  • Reasonable secondaries
  • Izumo if you understand how to play that monster of a ship (altho HE meta hurts her capabilities a lot)
  • Tiers 5 through 8 (debatably 9 & 10 aswell) always have some of the best BBs of that respective tier

Cons:

  • Lousy detection range
  • Yamato has TERRIBLE turret traverse and there's nothing you can do about it
  • Meh AA
  • Meh turning capabilities
  • Stock ship grinds are (or at least used to be) a bit unpleasant
  • Citadel hits are not rare if you expose too much broadside
  • Izumo if you refuse to understand how to play that monster of a ship
  • Yamato (and Izumo) has a very campy playstyle

 

RN 7 Conqueror

Pros:

  • Tier 7+ great detection range with concealment build
  • Shared best HE performance, best or 2nd best depending on tier
  • Tier 7+ reasonable speed for a BB
  • Reasonable mid-range AA (explanation why just reasonable in cons)
  • Generally good, altho heavily overrated citadel protection
  • Tier 7+ good speed for BBs
  • Tier 6 and below exceptionally good turning speed
  • Excellent close range accuracy
  • Good mid-range accuracy
  • Tier 9+ great heal (countering some of the cons)
  • Tier 9+ fires literally don't hurt
  • Tiers 7+ can outspot a few (4?) high tier cruisers
  • People expect you to spam HE, so they give you broadsides more than for other BBs making your AP more effective
  • Tier 9+ supports smart-aggressive gameplay

Cons:

  • Short-ish range for BBs up to tier 8
  • Spray-and-pray accuracy at long range
  • AA can be wiped clean off of you in 1...2 HE salvos by anyone
  • Tier 7+ pathetic armour by BB standards - NO protection from HE hits
  • Main battery turrets are very easy to knock out
  • You'd have to play Monarch. If there's one ship that could make someone quit the game it has to be the Monarch. I don't think there currently is a worse ship in the game.
  • Tier 9+ very very long heal cooldown
  • Tier 9+ 1 less heal consumable than others get
  • Very weak (almost non-existant) torpedo protection
  • Up to tier 6 pathetic turret traverse (not as bad as Yamato tho)
  • Conqueror can not use spotting aircraft
  • If you're spotted people will want to focus you down
  • Tier 9+ easy to get overconfedent and die because of the heal

Debatable:

  • Short fuse AP. I see that as a pro, most people take it as a con.
  • Tier 7 KGV hosts the smallest BB caliber of the tier (if Scharnhorst is counted as a battlecruiser) and is unable to overmatch tier 6 & 7 BB bow / stern armour
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1 hour ago, kfa said:

As first? Conqueror. Its much more noob-friendly, you can get away with many mistakes, Yamato requires the most skill and map awareness from all of the BBs.

Except that the line up to the ship is still more noob-friendly on IJN side

 

48 minutes ago, Rokko1v said:

whys that?

Because people are overreacting, getting their knickers in a twist and refusing to learn some simple points of how to deal with Conq

 

34 minutes ago, Captain_Placeholder said:

no citadel

That's bs and you know it, otherwise go complain how Amagi and Kii have submerged citadels aswell

 

35 minutes ago, Captain_Placeholder said:

HE spammers

@Rokko1v btw - despite Flamu yelling this and his fanclub insisting that it's the only way to play these ships - RN sAP is perfectly fine, in some aspects I'd even say better than other BB AP. And when they say that the HE is far superior to others - once again its fact misrepresentation as that HE is on par with what IJN has

 

29 minutes ago, Rokko1v said:

i heard about the conqueror being overpowered at one point but didnt they nerf it?
and the reason i dont go with a german bb is, that the Großer Kurfürst is more of a brawler, aka up close ish?
i recall that from some video, i watched too many to count by now..
and tbh i dont like up close, same reason why i will most likely never be a good dd player, i just panic

Then Yamato is your choice, the only BB where humping some border could be seen as the correct choice. BBs are supposed to stick with the fleet not sit 20km behind them. And Conq most definitely doesn't perform at range.

 

As for Conq being OP - well, already answered that one in this same comment.

 

I do find it funny how I can comfortably go vs Conq in a tier 8 & 9 BBs while everyone's moaning that they can't deal with them even in a tier 10 :Smile_teethhappy:

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30 minutes ago, Captain_Placeholder said:

This is why the CQ is hated.

 

You added that in an edit I guess? well, anyway

 

Wow, one player had 1 in a 1 000 000 game, totally proves something. Any ship can have that ridiculously awesome game where enemies ignored you, target doesn't hide and RNG is blessing you. What he does in that video can be done with ANY tier 10 (or even any tier) BB as long as you fire HE.

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3 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

Except that the line up to the ship is still more noob-friendly on IJN side

 

Because people are overreacting, getting their knickers in a twist and refusing to learn some simple points of how to deal with Conq

 

That's bs and you know it, otherwise go complain how Amagi and Kii have submerged citadels aswell

Its called exaggeration, yes they do have citadels,  how ever they are a pain in the aft to hit, and most everything you get are over pens.

3 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

 

@Rokko1v btw - despite Flamu yelling this and his fanclub insisting that it's the only way to play these ships - RN sAP is perfectly fine, in some aspects I'd even say better than other BB AP. And when they say that the HE is far superior to others - once again its fact misrepresentation as that HE is on par with what IJN has

Sure you can do well with its Ap, but Hardly anyone plays the thing with AP. people always spam HE with it cause its just so good. Bring the Zombie heal and strong stealth; it is an OP boat.

3 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

Then Yamato is your choice, the only BB where humping some border could be seen as the correct choice. BBs are supposed to stick with the fleet not sit 20km behind them. And Conq most definitely doesn't perform at range.

 

As for Conq being OP - well, already answered that one in this same comment.

 

I do find it funny how I can comfortably go vs Conq in a tier 8 & 9 BBs while everyone's moaning that they can't deal with them even in a tier 10 :Smile_teethhappy:

 

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8 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

@Rokko1v

 

Then Yamato is your choice, the only BB where humping some border could be seen as the correct choice. BBs are supposed to stick with the fleet not sit 20km behind them. And Conq most definitely doesn't perform at range.

 

thank you for all your answers.
whats the effective/recommended range for a conqueror then?

and i saw this video a while ago and the upload date is before they nerfed something on the conqueror so i took it with a grain of salt when i first saw it.

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I would say that you should primarily focus on playing the ships you already own correctly and very slowly go up towards high tiers, don't wanna flame you but your statistics show you are low performing.  Your damage output is very low on all ships and this isn't good for your teams.  High tier gameplay is particularly unforgiving most of the times and as a general rule you are expected to carry and not be carried.

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23 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

That's bs and you know it, otherwise go complain how Amagi and Kii have submerged citadels aswell

 

Amagi & Kii have a waterline citadel + turtleback (albeit a "bad" one) which is infinitely more reliable to hit than a completely submerged one, as has been proven by previous tests.

 

That said, RN BB citadels aren't impossible to hit, however like the turtleback on Amagi/Kii they do provide complete immunity at close range (barring wrong maneuvering) and require a certain distance before such shots become possible (for T9+ USN BBs e.g. it's 8km and above, all other lines require a bit more distance since they have better shell arcs. Yes, better shell arcs actually gives you a smaller chance to hit submerged citadels due to the nature of underwater ballistics). But even at such distances citadel hits remain extremely rare unlike with Amagi/Kii.

 

Still inferior to what the Germans have, though.

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3 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Amagi & Kii have a waterline citadel + turtleback (albeit a "bad" one) which is infinitely more reliable to hit than a completely submerged one, as has been proven by previous tests.

 

That said, RN BB citadels aren't impossible to hit, however like the turtleback on Amagi/Kii they do provide complete immunity at close range (barring wrong maneuvering) and require a certain distance before such shots become possible (for USN BBs e.g. it's 8km or above, all other lines require a bit more distance since they have better shell arcs due to the nature of underwater ballistics). But even at such distances citadel hits remain extremely rare unlike with Amagi/Kii.

 

Still inferior to what the Germans have, though.

 

what i find with the Germans, while citadels are rare, normal penetrations are very very common because there is so much Armour there. CQ on the other hand not only are citadels rare, Normal penetration are also annoying to get. Most hits i get on CQ are over-pens as ther eis very little armor.

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16 minutes ago, tsounts said:

I would say that you should primarily focus on playing the ships you already own correctly and very slowly go up towards high tiers, don't wanna flame you but your statistics show you are low performing.  Your damage output is very low on all ships and this isn't good for your teams.  High tier gameplay is particularly unforgiving most of the times and as a general rule you are expected to carry and not be carried.


oh im aware im not a good player.
my first goal was to get the zao as first tier x ship because a swimming flamethrower sounded too fun not to have.
by the time i noticed that i prefer bb over cruisers,i was already too far in the jap cruiser tree to stop.

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On 1/15/2018 at 7:07 AM, Captain_Placeholder said:

Sure you can do well with its Ap, but Hardly anyone plays the thing with AP. people always spam HE with it cause its just so good. Bring the Zombie heal and strong stealth; it is an OP boat.

The average BB player in this game doesn't have half-a-braincell, and when as loud voice as Flamus starts yelling BB HE surprise surprise they follow his word like gospel. IJN have exactly as good HE as RN has. Why wasn't it a thing previously then?

Not sure if you followed previous Conq threads or no but heal has been discussed more than enough. Its a fair trade to get that heal because of the absolute lack of armour (and the low health could easily be thrown in there aswell)

What's wrong with that detection? There is a DD line with better stealth than other DDs, there is a CA/L line with better stealth than other CA/Ls, obviously there will be the same for BBs. And actually afaik RN are barely better than US, aren't they?

 

Just because you refuse to learn how to deal with it doesn't mean it's OP. By that same logic torps are OP bcuz they will hit me if I refuse to turn my ship.

 

On 1/15/2018 at 7:19 AM, tsounts said:

don't wanna flame you but your statistics show you are low performing.

he's new, there still is hope :cap_like:

 

On 1/15/2018 at 7:20 AM, El2aZeR said:

Amagi & Kii have a waterline citadel

Amagis citadel is fully submerged, Kii has it submerged except directly below #1 and #2 turrets where it's waterline for that short section.

 

On 1/15/2018 at 7:20 AM, El2aZeR said:

Still inferior to what the Germans have, though.

I'm having far more success citadeling RN than German BBs, those seem to be protected by RNG himself.

 

Surprisingly enough I've got a citadel on Bismark (or was it Derpitz? well, same class) with a QE :cap_haloween:

 

On 1/15/2018 at 7:26 AM, Captain_Placeholder said:

normal penetrations are very very common because there is so much Armour there

Especially with that RN short fuse AP. RN BBs simply feast on German BBs, if you use AP of course.

 

 

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Well, focus on playing the Tirpitz and Fuso right then and don't rush at all.  In a BB you should always support and carefully brawl, remember you're supposed to take damage for your team to be able to move but shouldn't die fast either.  Engage and disengage as required, use concealment wisely.  Many battles are lost because of full health BBs sitting far behind everyone while their team gets punished, this is mostly the case with Yamato players. :) Sometimes they even apply criticism to how their team died too!

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54 minutes ago, Rokko1v said:

whats the effective/recommended range for a conqueror then?

2 ways how you can look at it:


General RN:

You can split that into three equal thirds. Basically take your ships maximum range (approximate it to full km) and divide by 3.

The 1st section - closest to you - is your close range. You're generally deadly accurate apart from some RNG shot, but at the same time your best targets at those distances can wreck you aswell

Next third - the mid-range - is your best distance. Somewhere in it lies your detection range - you want to play around it. You're accurate enough at these ranges, at least for BB standards, you can outpost most (or all - depending on ship) BBs, sometimes a few crusiers but in an actual in-game situation I still haven't had a situation where that one actually mattered. This is your "main combat range"

The last third - long range - it's literally spray and pray accuracy. At this range I'd actually recommend using HE, your AP will be ineffective.


Conq specific:

That split would be 0 - 8 / 8 - 16...17 / 16...17 - 24

0 to 8km I've scored some amazing hits - over 45k dmg in one salvo without even scoring a citadel. Then again, I could have been - and have been - on the receiving end, with some DD coming around an island and just nuking me from full HP to nothing

8 to 16...17 (maybe 18km) is where you're at your best. 11.8km detection with full concealment -> you play around that. Like, keep yourself at 13 to 14km, so you can stealth up between each 2 salvos - just to control your survivability a little more. Of course, don't push up to this distance if noone else is doing that - you want to play together with the fleet that's with you, if you're confident in your abilities you can be the spearhead of your push. But this is where you're at your strongest

Over 18km - your AP's underperforming (if I remember correctly - RN BBs get slightly worse autobounce angles) and your accuracy goes so bad you're lucky to land more than 1 shell per salvo. Everyone's saying how good the firechance is - at this kind of hitrate it could take you 4...5 salvos to get even 1 fire going. You still will do some damage, especially on large targets like Yamato or GK which are easier to hit, but even that's a meh situation. Also at these ranges everyone is stealthy - so you lose one of your general strengths against other BBs, and fighting on equal grounds is never a good idea if you can get the advantage for yourself.


Something like that

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