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A_TIN_OF_MILK

RADAR

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since the radar was brought in playing dds   or any ship that needs smoke in higher tiers has become  well just  don't  bother   if the planes don't spot u the radar does     we last  under 5 mins   and if your trying to be accurate  ww2 radar was  not that accurate   a  bearing and approximate range as  the guy  watching the screen was  not   near the guns or  bridge so  please give the  the dds  ect  a better  chance either  improve there defence  or dumb down the radar ect   give a bearing and range give or take 3 k

 

thanx   for   any reply

 

 

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I play a lot of DDs and RN cruisers and I very rarely get caught out by radar and get killed as a result of it even less frequently. I usually know where the radar ships are and what the range of their radar is so I know which areas to avoid.

 

Radar isn't your problem.

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1 minute ago, A_TIN_OF_MILK said:

just   thought   give  the dds ect  chaff 

 

 

That would just make radar redundant which is something that good map/situational awareness can do anyway.

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6 minutes ago, A_TIN_OF_MILK said:

just   thought   give  the dds ect  chaff 

 

So... a DD gets radared. he throws chaff. Radar is useless. You only need chaff when you get radared. So radar becomes useless. Or you need 2 ships with radar to attack one DD, just then you can catch him on cooldown.

 

14 minutes ago, A_TIN_OF_MILK said:

or dumb down the radar ect   give a bearing and range give or take 3 k

 

That would be radio, its also in the game.

 

I have a better solution for you tho: Dont play higher tiers. First radar appears on T7 - occasionaly. So play T5 DDs, and you are pretty save, T4 and you dont have to worry.

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There is a lot of stuff which makes Radar usage much easier - and its usually the DDs fault.

First they go into a cap and smoke. Thx u just pinpointed your exact location, i just have to watch my Radar range on my Minimap and bang *detected*

Usually those players also sit nose in in that cap, and more often they take caps without cover anyway (yes i know some maps dont have cover). So first they need to accelerate, make a full turn while all the time being detected by Radar. Work in advance, either turn away in the cap, or reverse inside the cap, so u can escape quick. If the Radar ship wants to follow u, your teammates SHOULD punish him. Because he must overextend to follow u on maps where there is no cover.

Its basicly the same with CVs: We had a match on okinawa with 1vs2 DDs + CV.. we told our DD, dont go B at start, its bad. He went there, planes spotted him, he died. Instead of learning something, blame the team for not helping him.

 

If there are Radar ships, dont rush in too fast, maybe a plane or someone else does spot them, so u know where they are. Then u still know if its safe to enter a cap or not.

 

And then u get those special DDs who rush into the enemies like madman, without cover and any chance to retreat, they spot a Radar ship and *bing*. Also same special ppl think its fine to go to ~7km from a Missouri and wonder when they get radared... a Missouri has worse detection than his Radar range :cap_book:

I understand ships like Belfast (especially) which have detection = radar range. And ontop of that it even has smoke, that pretty much sucks. But other Radar ships have other shortcomings.

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1 hour ago, A_TIN_OF_MILK said:

since the radar was brought in playing dds   or any ship that needs smoke in higher tiers has become  well just  don't  bother   if the planes don't spot u the radar does     we last  under 5 mins   and if your trying to be accurate  ww2 radar was  not that accurate   a  bearing and approximate range as  the guy  watching the screen was  not   near the guns or  bridge so  please give the  the dds  ect  a better  chance either  improve there defence  or dumb down the radar ect   give a bearing and range give or take 3 k

 

thanx   for   any reply

 

 

Works fine for me. Just take note where the radar ships are and do not go in blindly...

 

And you are not that well informed about WW2 radar. Ships were using that to shoot in the dark...

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1 hour ago, A_TIN_OF_MILK said:

just   thought   give  the dds ect  chaff 

 

 

Great idea!

 

Make it so that 5 or 6 fake ships appear to the enemy, let them figure out which is the real one.

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Sorry  but as a DD player. over 4k games in DDs 

 

Rubbish.

 

Is it harder to play DDs yes of cause.

But DD players are made of stronger stuff we are not BBabies we adapt and overcome.. and killing a radar equipped ship is SOOOO much more satisfying 

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Point 1: I don't usually have a problem dealing with radar.

 

Point 2: I think radar should be removed from the game because it makes it more boring and overall worse. I've said enough about that elsewhere.

 

When I state those things, people tend to just respond "l2p", as if they can just conveniently ignore point 1 and pretend it doesn't exist. CAs complain about not being able to find DDs. Get radar. BBs complain about citadel hits. Get citadel lowered. DDs complain about radar making it too hard for them. l2p, noob. Everyone gets those buffs that covers their ineptude except DDs, who just have to deal with it and become better.

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2 minutes ago, T0byJug said:

Sorry  but as a DD player. over 4k games in DDs 

 

Rubbish.

 

Is it harder to play DDs yes of cause.

But DD players are made of stronger stuff we are not BBabies we adapt and overcome.. and killing a radar equipped ship is SOOOO much more satisfying 

As a DD player i concur. 

I'm not afraid of radar, but BB AP makes me crap my pants. But that is a bug that is never going to be fixed. 

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29 minutes ago, AnotherDuck said:

When I state those things, people tend to just respond "l2p", as if they can just conveniently ignore point 1 and pretend it doesn't exist. CAs complain about not being able to find DDs. Get radar. BBs complain about citadel hits. Get citadel lowered. DDs complain about radar making it too hard for them. l2p, noob. Everyone gets those buffs that covers their ineptude except DDs, who just have to deal with it and become better.

 

Its funny, how is a Cruiser supposed to "git gud" and spot those DDs when the difference in concealment is sometimes more than double that of a DD! Yet they are supposed to kill em, i guess WG didnt see another option to that "problem". I didnt play WoWs back when it was called "torpsoup-meta"... so i cant know how it was before.

About that BB Citadel thing: Ye, dont know why, obviously playing BB is too hard, noone can possibly expect them to NOT show broadside in between those 30 sec of reload...

 

Oh btw how about those Cruisers who are getting citadelled from any angle? They have to "git gud" too u know? Its not like they got their citadels removed...

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2 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

There is a lot of stuff which makes Radar usage much easier - and its usually the DDs fault.

First they go into a cap and smoke. Thx u just pinpointed your exact location, i just have to watch my Radar range on my Minimap and bang *detected*

Usually those players also sit nose in in that cap, and more often they take caps without cover anyway (yes i know some maps dont have cover). So first they need to accelerate, make a full turn while all the time being detected by Radar. Work in advance, either turn away in the cap, or reverse inside the cap, so u can escape quick. If the Radar ship wants to follow u, your teammates SHOULD punish him. Because he must overextend to follow u on maps where there is no cover.

Its basicly the same with CVs: We had a match on okinawa with 1vs2 DDs + CV.. we told our DD, dont go B at start, its bad. He went there, planes spotted him, he died. Instead of learning something, blame the team for not helping him.

 

If there are Radar ships, dont rush in too fast, maybe a plane or someone else does spot them, so u know where they are. Then u still know if its safe to enter a cap or not.

 

And then u get those special DDs who rush into the enemies like madman, without cover and any chance to retreat, they spot a Radar ship and *bing*. Also same special ppl think its fine to go to ~7km from a Missouri and wonder when they get radared... a Missouri has worse detection than his Radar range :cap_book:

I understand ships like Belfast (especially) which have detection = radar range. And ontop of that it even has smoke, that pretty much sucks. But other Radar ships have other shortcomings.

Don't forget that you shouldn't smoke when entering cap, you have to see what is coming for you. 

Always have a way out. 

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Radar has been in the game a while now. Ok, it's not realistic as it penetrates islands like X-Ray vision:Smile_sceptic:.....but we have all had time to get used to it.....

Fools rush in where angels fear to tread.....

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Stop it from going trough islands and I'm good.

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4 minutes ago, SeeteufeI said:

Stop it from going trough islands and I'm good.

I could go for that......

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1 hour ago, SeeteufeI said:

Stop it from going trough islands and I'm good.

It could even get buffed then. Radar could be a powerful tool against smoke users and an equalizer where it comes to DDs naturally superior concealment (compared to cruisers) - but a line of sight should be a hard requirement still.

 

That being said, as for OP's problems...

4 hours ago, A_TIN_OF_MILK said:

since the radar was brought in playing dds   or any ship that needs smoke in higher tiers has become  well just  don't  bother   if the planes don't spot u the radar does

this is clearly false. DDs can be very punishing when you make mistakes and this gets worse when Radars abound, but high tier DDs are still powerful enough to often be the force that determines the outcome of the match - because they still are the ones who cap things and spot enemies, plus the fear of torps still has unparalleled suppressing power over people. Squishy cruisers are afraid of BB guns, DDs are afraid of Radar but EVERYONE is afraid of torps.

The only problem with Radars pops up when two conditions are met:

1. One side has clear advantage in Radar department (say, one side has 3 Radar ships and the other 0)

2. There are good places to hide safely near caps and cover them with Radar

When that happens, then the problem can be severe, because one team can't really contest caps... while the other does have the ability to do so. This forces the disadvantaged side's DDs to try and bait Radars or something like that - and, generally speaking, they're forced into a really bad spot. But that's mostly the flaw of MM.

If there are just plenty Radars, then DDs on both sides can just play it safe, spot from the sides, torp from a bit further away - and wait for their turn to shine in the later stages of the game.

 

The one thing that REALLY can screw DDs over is CVs - there, yes, the design is flawed (since CVs can not only spot DDs but are also potentially very effective at killing them with very limited options for the non-AA DD to do something about it). However, CVs are rare - and the ones that really focus on DDs (and know how to do it effectively) are rarer still. Plus, even high tier CVs can't be everywhere AND there's always a chance that your own CV might not be a muppet and will come to your aid.

 

To sum this up: there are some people who play Shimakaze with 8km torps - and get purple results with remarkable consistency. You literally can't get higher tier than that - and the torp range is shorter than Radar radius they face on regular basis. Shima also has poor AA and not that great handling - making her pretty much as vulnerable to both Radar and planes as it gets. It's a suicide configuration, really. The fact that it works for some of the best Shima players clearly shows that whether Radars completely ruin your DD game or not is ultimately up to your skill and situational awareness. But if you lack these, then Radars really won't change much - without Radars you'll just get complacent sitting in your smokes and you'll find yourself murdered by hydro DDs or blown off the water by a spread of smoke-sweeping torps.

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2 hours ago, stewie533 said:

Don't forget that you shouldn't smoke when entering cap, you have to see what is coming for you. 

 

Concidering, this is like THE basic rule of DD play - its hilarious how often you see this, right? Today, 9 DDs on Okinawa. puff,puff,puff - I count 9 smoke clouds. And about a minute later a handfull DDs less. I think 1 pair even managed to torp each other out of the game. srsly?

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42 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

Concidering, this is like THE basic rule of DD play - its hilarious how often you see this, right? Today, 9 DDs on Okinawa. puff,puff,puff - I count 9 smoke clouds. And about a minute later a handfull DDs less. I think 1 pair even managed to torp each other out of the game. srsly?

It is so frustrating to see a dd going ahead of you laying a smoke cloud on the edge of the cap near cover. Completely denying cap Intel or retreat spot -_-. 

Or even worse, you move into the cap, position to spot and a quick retreat and ab idiot sails past you at full speed and dies. Handing the enemy a kill and effective line of sight blocker for them on anything in the cap. 

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6 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

Its funny, how is a Cruiser supposed to "git gud" and spot those DDs when the difference in concealment is sometimes more than double that of a DD!

You have your own DDs to help. But now, they're not going to push that far, because they don't want to be caught in a radar. So that's a self-fulfilling problem. The BBs have only ever increased since radar was introduced, which means cruisers have it much harder following their DDs anyway, so another point into radar making the game worse for cruisers, despite alledgedly being a tool for them. So what's left? Kemp rock. Kemp smoke. You even have people whining about how MM should balance the radar ships among the teams, which only proves that it's a much too significant button to press. It's not about the damage radar can do once activated. It's about what the threat of it does. It ruins the game.

 

6 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

Oh btw how about those Cruisers who are getting citadelled from any angle? They have to "git gud" too u know? Its not like they got their citadels removed...

Imagine if the BBs hadn't increased so much. Then that problem wouldn't have mattered so much. But then you have radar, that scared away DDs which brought forward the BBs, which scared off the CAs, which brought back some of the DDs, but the BBs remain with all their ridiculous buffs.

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Radar is fine, you just have to develop greater map awareness. I'm no big fan of radar, but especially in competitive it is necessary for tactical purposes.

 

Just know which ship has which radar range and there shouldn't be a problem.

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Make it so that only ship that use radar see ship in smoke ( in range ) - that is the only way that is fair,, 

now Russian cruiser that are close to the cap behind island will trigger radar and than what is happened is gangbang shitstorm on you, it should be that ship that use radar see the enemy ship and can use it against it otherwise what is next aria fire damage on ships perk if you set on fire one ship and other enemy ship 1 km away are also set on fire ??????

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6 hours ago, AnotherDuck said:

You have your own DDs to help. But now, they're not going to push that far, because they don't want to be caught in a radar. So that's a self-fulfilling problem. The BBs have only ever increased since radar was introduced, which means cruisers have it much harder following their DDs anyway, so another point into radar making the game worse for cruisers, despite alledgedly being a tool for them. So what's left? Kemp rock. Kemp smoke. You even have people whining about how MM should balance the radar ships among the teams, which only proves that it's a much too significant button to press. It's not about the damage radar can do once activated. It's about what the threat of it does. It ruins the game.

 

Imagine if the BBs hadn't increased so much. Then that problem wouldn't have mattered so much. But then you have radar, that scared away DDs which brought forward the BBs, which scared off the CAs, which brought back some of the DDs, but the BBs remain with all their ridiculous buffs.

 

I rather go with the statement from other players, that the lack of CVs brought up BBs. Less CVs -> More DDs which can do what they want, since CVs are the hard counter to DDs. Now that we have so many DDs -> Nerf Torps + give Cruisers Radar -> Less DDs. All that concludes to more BBs. But as i said, i didnt play that game as early, so i dont know if the game was fun back then.

 

Yes would be good if DDs would search other DDs, but the selfishness of probably half the DD players is so incredible u couldnt get the enemy DDs without Radar. This got even worse with the 5th mission stage of the campaign now - i think some DDs will keep playing that way. Just yesterday on Hotspot ALL of our 3 DDs played like assholes, never capping and suiciding into the enemies because TORPDAMAGE :cap_book:While the enemy DDs played absolutely perfectly keeping us all spotted, throwing torps and stuff... unless WG forces them to play to their roles, and stops making those retarded missions, i wouldnt EVER remove Radar from the game.

 

2 hours ago, Cime said:

Make it so that only ship that use radar see ship in smoke ( in range ) - that is the only way that is fair,, 

now Russian cruiser that are close to the cap behind island will trigger radar and than what is happened is gangbang shitstorm on you, it should be that ship that use radar see the enemy ship and can use it against it otherwise what is next aria fire damage on ships perk if you set on fire one ship and other enemy ship 1 km away are also set on fire ??????

 

I can understand the logic behind that, but thats once again removing teamwork from the game. If Radar is only for me, then i wouldnt value it at all anymore. Often enough i cant shoot in my Missouri, but i want to help out my DD. Best case scenario so far was Mahan torping full HP Iowa which was rushing towards him, but got deleted by that Mahan thx to me. But i didnt have LoS nor could i shoot him.

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Well lately I've switched the smoke for a torp reload booster on my kagero, and damn it's fun....and even less radar problems

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11 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

CVs are the worst counter to DDs

Debatable, carriers can ruin your day as a destroyer like no other class.

/edit: misinterpreted

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