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Rautainen_Biisoni

How would you improve the skill of player base?

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Hello WG,

 

The last year the most thing that my mates talk about in teamspeak when is how horribly bad the players are. Games fall into either being run over fast or your own team just run over the enemy.

Players of the better quality who know the game hate the numbers of noobs they get to face in every game and every tier all evening. The higher the tier is often the worse.

Today I've lost a few times when 50% of my team is sunk in less than 5 minutes. A few games I've been raging to my BBs that are in the rear using max range of their guns. Of course friendly DDs and CA go ahead and sink.

This is serious issue. While the game is not perfect its decent enough. The worst thing is the player base. The vast majority of players are really horrible. Its better to have AI bots in your side.

 

Give us your tips/experience to WG how to improve the playerbase. I'll start.

 

1) Ladder/division of players seems to be off the list by WG which is a serious mistake. Clan wars did work in creating tough games.

 

2) Starcraft 2 has ladder and division of players to groups. Works just fine. You play versus your own level players.

 

3) Battlefield games: They have their classes and you can play those classes to really benefit your team. Medics, engineers, support, recon... all had specialities and when those were used the player got points for it and team got the advantage. Playing the class was really beneficial.

 

Wows doesn't give you any bonus really for doing the task of your class. Its not worth protecting your BB's from air attacks when no CVs are around and you get no points. You don't get points for pushing to a cap, fighting in a team, tanking. Nothing is really rewarded. You can get your points for just hanging in the back. Maybe you get a victory maybe not. Points are steady when u do a little bit of damage.

 

4) Mount and blade fan made a CRPG-mod went even further back in the day in teamplay. A game of sword wielding soldiers, knights and archers hacking at each other. The game had following features that could help WoWs: 

Proximity around caps or allies:

- You had to get xp and gold in order to improve your character. You got xp and gold from fighting in a group. Fight in 15 meters of your allies and get points even when not doing much damage. Solitary soldiers didn't really get anything. Only teamplayers got xp and gold.

- Why not add a proximity bonus for fighting near caps or allies. 

Award from victory was a xp and gold multiplier for the next round:

- You had to win games to get multiplier that helped you get XP and gold. People who lost only got a multiplier of 1x and the grinding was slow.

- When you won and kept winning you managed to get a multiplier of 5x. This really sped up characters advancing. Winning was well supported. Helping your allies was a good strategy.

Victory should give good rewards and losing close to nothing.

 

5) Tutorials? Newbies won't read them. We have a lot of players with 6-8k games and below average stats. They haven't learned anything in that many games.

 

In short and sweet: Us veterans of this game have to play with/against players of very poor skills every night. Its very horrible to play when 70% of players you meet in every match are just bad. They aren't punished for playing bad but rewarded.

 

Give us your tips to WG how to improve the playerbase. Maybe for a small chance they take heed when this issue is spammed long enough.

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[BFS]
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*edited*

 

*This post has been edited by the moderation team due to disrespectful comments.

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[UNICS]
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During peak hours, you divide Random games into 2 pots. One 'competitive' and one 'casual'. Players themselves choose what they want to play. If you're reported too often for bad play and have a giant losing record, the option of choosing 'competitive' is off the list for a week or so.

 

It seems like a fairly 'simple' solution which should solve lots of issues. I think people can give up the idea of educating the playerbase, and there are already Ranked and Clan battles in the game.

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[PRAVD]
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Tutorials might not help for the people who already have 8k+ battles (and 42% winrate) but might be helpful for people new to the game. Only unlock co-op and random battles after doing the tutorials. Make default ribbons the default, and explain why you should AP or HE, and why you should shoot at the superstructure instead of the hull.

 

Reverse the removal of AP at tier 1 and manual drops at tier 5 and maybe tier 4.

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Problem lies i think in the people that do not want to learn, if someone wants to learn they will improve where as the ones that dont, well no ammount of help, tutorials will help sad to say. :Smile_sceptic:

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2 minutes ago, Robber_Baron said:

Tutorials might not help for the people who already have 8k+ battles (and 42% winrate) but might be helpful for people new to the game. Only unlock co-op and random battles after doing the tutorials. Make default ribbons the default, and explain why you should AP or HE, and why you should shoot at the superstructure instead of the hull.

 

Reverse the removal of AP at tier 1 and manual drops at tier 5 and maybe tier 4.

It wouldn't hurt. I'd like the training room readily accessible for myself too to learn. What the hell do you do when you face a broadside Atlanta in a Pensacola? I keep overpenning the citadel... :(

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[DMAS]
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Rebalancing the class that allow player with bad gameplay to get away would be a great start.

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19 minutes ago, loppantorkel said:

During peak hours, you divide Random games into 2 pots. One 'competitive' and one 'casual'. Players themselves choose what they want to play. If you're reported too often for bad play and have a giant losing record, the option of choosing 'competitive' is off the list for a week or so.

 

It seems like a fairly 'simple' solution which should solve lots of issues. I think people can give up the idea of educating the playerbase, and there are already Ranked and Clan battles in the game.

Problem with this is sadly queue time.WG would otherwise implement +-1 MM already.

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[BAD-A]
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@OP the simple answer to this is that nothing can be done..... Dunning Kreuger is prevalent in this and most of these types of games, as can be regularly seen in game chat when the spud who goes alone in an RN cruiser to a flank (all the while being begged NOT TO) dies early and then spends the remaining 19 minutes berating the 'noob team' for failing to support him/her....... Simplest answer is to just play to the best of YOUR abilities and move on if you get stuck with 11 potatoes, onto the next game and keep your fingers crossed that the other team gets the next 11.....

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[SCRUB]
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same question as "How would you improve the intelligence of people?"  :cap_old:

 

most people are dumb af, you can't change that

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[NWP]
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When WG is showing tips like that one, they cant help anyone... neither can a person be helped who would benefit from that kinda tip...

shot-18.01.12_00.21.51-0635.jpg

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5 minutes ago, lup3s said:

same question as "How would you improve the intelligence of people?"  :cap_old:

 

most people are dumb af, you can't change that

I thik the old saying "you can fix anything but you cant fix dumb" would be apropriate. 

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49 minutes ago, loppantorkel said:

During peak hours, you divide Random games into 2 pots. One 'competitive' and one 'casual'. Players themselves choose what they want to play. If you're reported too often for bad play and have a giant losing record, the option of choosing 'competitive' is off the list for a week or so.

 

It seems like a fairly 'simple' solution which should solve lots of issues. I think people can give up the idea of educating the playerbase, and there are already Ranked and Clan battles in the game.

I like this idea. It wouldn't kill it for the noobs and veterans. It would give the noobs a level to achieve.

I'd use players stat performance for this. You have to achieve at least"good" level of performance in a ship/class or player overall stats to qualify. Me and my mates don't bother waiting for a few minutes. We do hate playing with noobs every round. The greatest games I've experienced also has had awesome random players that play smartly in a team.

16 minutes ago, lup3s said:

same question as "How would you improve the intelligence of people?"  :cap_old:

 

most people are dumb af, you can't change that

I agree people are dumb af. You can however guide them to a better direction. People learn to play a lot of different games. They learn certain things you can do and some you can't or shouldn't.

Problem with wows is that it doesn't guide player to anything. They can all fall into the potato madness and move on in the game. There is no requirement for anything other than playtime. Rewards are given from everything. Ranked rank 1 can be achieved with just playing enough games. No skill, merits nothing required.

 

In BF4 if you wanted a cool pistol you had to play a lot with pistols and got used to them. Get headshot and stuff. Same with shotguns. You had to work to put hours on them and they only worked in some situations. You got familiar with them.

There is no need to tank with a BB. No need to close in. Nothing. Just play and get xp for the next ship in which you can snipe in the rear like before.

There is no need to cap as a DD and get a torp hit, gun hits and survive in a single battle. Do that a 100 times.

Put a requirement for the next ships to teach players. Make it so that they need to achieve these goals 50-100 times. People learn something when they need to achieve a goal.

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--> 1) Ladder/division of players seems to be off the list by WG which is a serious mistake. Clan wars did work in creating tough games.

 

I like this idea - am a relatively new player, been grinding the US BB line and have arrived at tier 8, I am starting to see better results (finally) - MM sometimes puts me in tier 10 games, and sometimes I can hold my own, but in some games ...one particular example, was where an OMNI Yamato player blapped me out of existence with a single salvo. YEs, I had made a mistake (had to turn, so broadside for a short amount of time. The guy was clearly aware of what I was doing and timed his salvo to perfection. Note I am not complaining that he killed me, rather that he might need better opposition than little old me at tier 8....so, I guess MM should take into account the measured competence of the player, and maybe less so the ship's tier. Of course, I did learn something here...

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[YARRR]
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Punish them harder in terms of economy.

- move away from damage and increase the reward for teamplay actions (spotting, tanking, capping etc.)

- introduce scoring zones

- double the service costs if the player has spent over 80% of his active playing time in a low scoring zone, which should be located in typical camping spots away from objectives (exception should be made for the physical hull of CVs, instead punish CVs equally if their planes spent over 80% of their flying time in low scoring zones)

 

This way a bad player will have trouble even sustaining mid tier or premium ships if he is incapable of playing this game correctly.

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38 minutes ago, dottore_thedoctor said:

... he might need better opposition than little old me at tier 8....

 

Need, perhaps. Want, perhaps not.

 

I see a lot of players complain about getting full tier 10 battles in tanks and when you drill down into the detail, it's often because they want to have the best tank on the field. Single tier battles don't give them that advantage and they don't like the additional challenge.

 

It's the same when it comes to teams - lots of complaints about the team you're on being full of potatoes but the enemy team nearly always seems to have been comprehensively out-played by the better team rather than them being hopeless. Funny, that.

 

As for tutorials - encourage newer players to complete the campaigns and I don't mean by giving them fairly straightforward marathons that suddenly ramp up the difficulty in the final week. I was determined to complete every task in the Science of Victory campaign before I moved on to Honourable Service. As it happens I managed the final task just the other day and yesterday I researched my first tier 8 regular ship - the Akisuki - so I'm looking forward to starting that when the current special is done.

 

The tasks in the first campaign are structured quite well to give newer players a thorough grounding in different ship types and approaches. It's not going to help the player who starts with the determination to get a Yamato and only plays IJN BBs but putting them into a different league isn't going to change anything either.

 

The only "problem" with the Honourable Service campaign is the tier restriction of VIII+. Maybe an interim campaign for tier VI-VIII ships would help, then give newer players a few more signposts to the campaigns than just achieving a account level that many of them will skip past without reading properly.

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2 hours ago, Rautainen_Biisoni said:

Give us your tips to WG how to improve the playerbase.

For WG to stop selling premium ships of any tier to a player that does not own a silver ship of the same tier, but we know this will never happen.

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Bear in mind that this is a game that people are playing in their leisure time. It's not their job and they don't have to put up with too much nonsense. Penalising players for being bad won't make them learn to be better, it will just make them leave. That might satisfy the tryhards but it isn't good the overall health of the game. 

 

Random battles have be accepted for what they are - random battles with pick up groups full of people you don't know who may, or may, not, be good players. If you don't like it, tough. Other activities are available.

 

What WG could do, though, is...:

 

1) Provide an obvious training area with static and moving targets so that people can practice the basic skills without getting immediately nuked and learning exactly 0 from their game experience.

 

2) Make co-op battles more worthwhile. Nerfing the rewards available to co-op players was a bit of a mistake, as it meant that they had to come out of their preferred game mode into Random in order to get the higher rewards available to them elsewhere. Who cares if someone got a Tier 8 ship playing bots 1,000,000 times? It's no skin off my, or anyone else's, nose.

 

3) Keep a close eye on the impact of Divisions on Random battles, particularly where the Division members are in the same Clan. It's not that there is intentional shenanigans going on, but I've seen enough of these teams in games to know that they have a tendency to want to play a map according to a specific set of tactics and get huffy when everyone doesn't agree. Does this affect game outcomes? I'm sure the answer is in the stats somewhere.

 

4) Have more "limited entry" battle types. Ranked and Clan battles seem to be more satisfying for many because they limit the Tier, or the type of ship involved. This smooths out the wrinkles in the MM and makes people play ships they like, and are good at.

 

5) Set a minimum limit based on level and battles for Random, Ranked and Clan battles so that people can't buy high tier Premium ships and sail straight into maps they don't understand with a ship they're not familiar with.

 

That might make people happier in their game experience rather than grumbly and angry (and this game is very good at making people grumpy). 

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4 minutes ago, invicta2012 said:

Bear in mind that this is a game that people are playing in their leisure time. It's not their job and they don't have to put up with too much nonsense. Penalising players for being bad won't make them learn to be better, it will just make them leave. That might satisfy the tryhards but it isn't good the overall health of the game.

bear-in-mind.jpg

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3 hours ago, loppantorkel said:

During peak hours, you divide Random games into 2 pots. One 'competitive' and one 'casual'. Players themselves choose what they want to play. If you're reported too often for bad play and have a giant losing record, the option of choosing 'competitive' is off the list for a week or so.

 

It seems like a fairly 'simple' solution which should solve lots of issues. I think people can give up the idea of educating the playerbase, and there are already Ranked and Clan battles in the game.

Let's assume that you specifically are culled into that casual category for a week due to having a streak of losses due to playing a tired/drunk session of WOWS. How are you going to take it? Enjoying the casual category peacefully?

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We should create an army of robots with a stick modeled off me. The robot will then stand behind every WoWS player and whack them over the head when they do something I would disapprove of. This is the only way to improve player performance.

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The other thing is that WG need to change is the idea of the game being a race to high Tiers. It should be more about phases of competition and "finding your level".

 

The tier ladder might have been OK at launch but as time goes on the skill level a player needs to be effective at the higher levels is increasing. Ranked /  Clan battles are making the existing players better and in-Clan Divisions mean that they're coming down to lower level battles in numbers and in more organised groups than before, so it's tougher than it was to level up.

 

WG should probably add another WWI era tier to the game (by moving the current Tier I gunboats to Tier 0). That gives more room for a whole game phase of simpler game play (with very little smoke, radar, CVs, and gimmicks of all kinds) and many people would probably be happy to play that type of game with the classic ships of the period rather than chasing upwards into ever more complicated (and dangerous) waters.

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[NORKS]
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I would make it £10 per month subscription to play.  Most adults can afford this whereas most kids can’t.  I’m presuming that the majority of poor players are children because I doubt most adults would be that bad?

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