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Excavatus

playin bad on new levels!

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[THESO]
[THESO]
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Hello gentelmen,

 

as I've said numerous times in different threads, I dont even consider myself an average player in general yet.

I mainly play IJN DDs and I love them. But sometimes, It gets stressful and tiring, then I go to my BBs.. I decided I am gonna play RN BBs and German BBs.

Until Bayern, I was happy with my gameplay. Nothing spectecular, nothing above average even.. But I liked Bayern Mostly..

 

After that.. OMG.. I can even describe how *edited* (GNaysinaau!!)

I know the ship cannot be that terrible.. but phew! under my command.. OMG.. even though It's been 7 games in total..

I cant manage to hit any target from afar even though I get some perfect leading shots.. and I always watched and heard that the german BBs are mid to close range brawlers...

no.. I cant do that either. whatever angle I give.. I got huge hits.. broadside, bow, stern, angled, 90 degrees doesnt matter..

I am watching videos, reading revivews.. nothing seems to help.. I am doing what people did in those epic videos.. and guess what.. sasha grey again..

 

I unlocked engine with FreeXP, rest are stock..

It is a torture for me to play this ship, and unfair to my team even though I became a top tier..

 

anyone wanna help me to give basic tips?

at least consider the possibbility that I am getting on your team you want me to do a little bit..

because right now, I can do better with orion in a tier 10 match then this beautiful not loving ship..

 

 

*This post has been edited by the moderation team due to inappropriate remarks.

 

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[-RM-]
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The Gneisenau is a polarising ship, you either hate it or love it. I hated it, I just could not get along with the guns at all and that was the deciding factor for me.

 

But the ship itself is great. Fast, great armor, great AA and torps. So what I did to make it work for me is to go secondary focus and get stupidly close to enemies. With the secondaries and torps you slightly offset the derp nature of the guns and can make the thing work.

 

So basically the closer you get the more dangerous you become. The trick is to not rush in to early and not chew on your keyboard in frustration when you miss 3 volleys in a row on a beached broadside Schors from 10-6 km.

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[HABIT]
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Regarding angling your armour, since Scharnhorst and Gneisenau share the same hull this should apply as well:

 

Wait until you have fully upgraded her, although for a BB my first priority would not have been the engine but the hull. The Gneisenau can be a great ship, but as Ollenborre said, you can and have to get close so the dispersion doesn't troll you more than any other BB.

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[ONE2]
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Well, Gneisenau is not actually a BB its is a Battlecruiser and you have to keep that in mind. That means relatively bad armor but good speed. It plays very much like a higher tier Kongo or Myogi but has torps so better in that respect. Dispersion is not ideal so make sure to mount the Aiming System Mod to help out with that. brawling is the way to get most damage, but light armor makes it kinda tricky so pick your moment to go in carefully, since no armor though the secondaries are decent. You might want to play her just like a huge Cruiser. Use the speed to change position often and keep moving and when the situation calls for it, get close enough to take full advantage of your torps and secondary power. Due to few main guns, it is quite pointless trying to snipe, you have to seek medium to close range combat as much as possible, where you can actually hit something and do the most damage. So yeah, it does play completely different from any other German BB except maybe Schanderhorst could be close... :cap_hmm:

 

But of course, I only have Schanderhorst myself and skipped Gneisenau entirely to be honest, so what do I know? Hhehehe! But this just seemed to make the best sense. :cap_cool:

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[F_D]
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Well yesterday I had the strangest amounts of suicidal teams I've encountered for the last few weeks, often doing the least sane thing possible.

 

I've seen several CAs trying to bow tank me in a Fiji while 3 BBs that were even closer to them got his nice flat broadside.

 

I've seen a group of 3 DDs rushing around the cap, not even trying to contest it, failing to spot anything because they are all in the same location and their view is blocked by the single smoke in the cap, only to run into the whole enemy team when they finally managed to sail around the cap circle.

 

Sometimes it's hard to react to things like that, especially when you're inexperienced with how the ship handles. Characteristics from the Bayern change a lot when you come to the Gneisenau. The Bayern is a slower but rather maneuverable BB. The Gneisenau will take ages to turn in comparsion due to it's long hull and has weaker armor. It's shell arcs are very different from the Bayern and it suffers from German BB accuracy.

 

So going in close is the right thing to do, but you have to wait for the right moment to do it. You will initially take a ton of damage that you have to mitigate with repair as your superstructure takes a lot of damage and if you're facing a British CL you are in a world of pain if you can't take him out quickly.

 

When you go in, you have to have an exit strategy in place if your team doesn't follow in (which they often do not). You need time to make full use of your repair ability and while the Gneisnau has the speed to pull it off, you need to plan carefully not to take too much damage before you can safely disengage or present a such unfavourable target that the enemy rather target your team than finish you off.

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You need to know only 1 thing in KM BBs = your gun is accurate from 12km or under and that's it !!

 

You have perfect brawling armor, absurd secondary and in this case torpedo - so why not go under 14-12km ??

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[BABBY]
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7 minutes ago, RAHJAILARI said:

Well, Gneisenau is not actually a BB its is a Battlecruiser and you have to keep that in mind. That means relatively bad armor but good speed. :cap_cool:

I'd argue that Gneisenau/Scharnhorst armor is pretty goddamn excellent, as in best-in-tier. Thick 350mm belt that extends to the bow, 45mm sides and 50mm deck and a turtleback citadel. Only weakspot is the fat superstructure. For comparison you have the Colorado/Nagato 25mm plating which screams "OVERMATCH" and "IFHE".

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And dont forget to spec into AA.

Gnaisenau has some excellent AA.

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[ONE2]
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Okies @BlackYeti I will not contest that, perhaps that superstructure-thingy is precisely why I always have the creeping feelin' that "I need more armor", when I take the Schanderhorst out for a walk - Err, swim.:cap_hmm:

 

Though in fairness, now that I have committed myself into learning how to Mogami. That is the same sinking feeling I get in every God-dam*d game (where the h*ck is my armor???:etc_swear:)....:fish_boom:

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[NWP]
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Gneisi is basically a 6 gun Tirpitz but without the hard bow.

 

The guns are an acquired taste as they're fast reloading with excellent shell velocity but derp like hell...

 

I used to like mine then the Hood came out.

 

 

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IJN bbs were my first bb line, and i got so attached to the "BIG GUNS! LOTS GUNS" mentality that i actually skipped right through gneis because it's main battery power is so unattractive. Jerry's other boats make up for their unassuming main batteries by supplementing them, but gneis seems like it totally relies on its auxiliary armament, especially with only 6 rifles.

 

In other words, don't be too hard on yourself for having trouble making the gneis work. Like others have said there are only 2 camps for her, love and hate. Some people just can't make her sing, i am one of them heheh.

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[THESO]
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thanks for the replies gents..

 

As far as I've learned here,

 

  • skill cap is much harder than the previous KM BBs.. (so this alone I believe the main reason that I play and feel it like a dolphin shaped water bicycle..)
    • learn when to engage, when to disengage,
    • always get into mid or better close range,
    • while the ship is fast, turning is a pain,
  • Secondaries are good.. try to utilise it (refer to the above)
  • dont try to snipe from afar it is useless (change the spotting aircraft then) it is better not to give your position for hittin 1 or 2 overpens in total 50 fired.
  • dont ever go close without backup
  • Has great AAs...
  • Get ready to take huge hits and utilise your HP recovery module wisely (premium consumable.. here I come!)
  • Getting rudder time upgrade will help I presume

So, someone said go for AA build, someone said go for secondary build...

My heart leaning towards secondary... anyone care to elaborate on any of it?

 

another quesiton: is the rest of the line.. worth it.. the fat guys... fredrich and the g.fürst.. are they worth it?

Because the main reason I am playing german BBs are my sentimental attachment to the bismark.

The hunt for the bismark was the first book I've ever read and I was absolutely in tears at the end.. (dont judge me I was 9 )

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[ONE2]
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Well, since German BB's are made for brawling, secondary build seems optimal for the purpose. I mean, you have to place your bets, where the ship is strongest to get the best out of it right? AA build is only useful, if there is a CV in the game and it happens to go for you, but with so many AA build Gneisenaus in play already, is he going to risk losing many planes just to check? :cap_old:

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I dont remember the range of secondarie guns, but remeber that when you get close you can use the torpedoes too so do hou really need a secondary gun upgrade?

 

On AA upgrade, how often do you get attacked by CV? can you improve your positining so you dont get targeted by a CV? If i was a CV player and i know you have great AA I would just pick other targets.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Excavatus said:

thanks for the replies gents..

 

As far as I've learned here,

 

  • skill cap is much harder than the previous KM BBs.. (so this alone I believe the main reason that I play and feel it like a dolphin shaped water bicycle..)
    • learn when to engage, when to disengage,
    • always get into mid or better close range,
    • while the ship is fast, turning is a pain,
  • Secondaries are good.. try to utilise it (refer to the above)
  • dont try to snipe from afar it is useless (change the spotting aircraft then) it is better not to give your position for hittin 1 or 2 overpens in total 50 fired.
  • dont ever go close without backup
  • Has great AAs...
  • Get ready to take huge hits and utilise your HP recovery module wisely (premium consumable.. here I come!)
  • Getting rudder time upgrade will help I presume

So, someone said go for AA build, someone said go for secondary build...

My heart leaning towards secondary... anyone care to elaborate on any of it?

actualy you should keep the spotter plane as with the ridiculous AA Gneisi has even when not spected one or two fighter planes won't make much of a difference.

With a spotterplane however you can much easier snipe those pesky RN cruisers hiding in smoke and abusing your large superstructure. (because you get the topdownview which also provides better understanding of the vertikal aim instead of the horizontal aim by looking at the muzzleflashes)

It is true though that sniping from far away while not being spotted is usaly not worth it.

 

The secoundarys kind of pale in comparison of Bismark and Tirpitz though because they don't have the awesome range. For a really good secoundarybuild you will also need a highskilled captain as manual secoundary (4 point skill) and IFHE for the HE secoundaries (also 4 point skill) is advised on top of the BFT + AFT combo. THis pretty much means you get to take just a the mandatory one point and two point skill on top of this and you are done with spending your 19 points.

This can be fun on Bismarck/Tirpitz or maybe even Yamato but other builds like for survival or gun reload/turn for Yamato are more often useful than just a waste of points because you can't get close for whatever reason.

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[-RM-]
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6 minutes ago, Eache said:

I dont remember the range of secondarie guns, but remeber that when you get close you can use the torpedoes too so do hou really need a secondary gun upgrade?

I would argue yes. The secondaries outrange your torps, they are more reliable in terms of hitting and causing crits and applying damage over time and by boosting your secondaries with for example AFT you are also boosting your AA.

 

Torps are even more situational than secondaries and IMO should be used in conjunction with your secondaries for maximum effect, not replacing them.

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form this ship on secondary build and close combat is all you need to know - you will have to learn situational awareness and all the time eyes on map..

 

You will need 2 moduls for secondary also - one to save them (1) and second to up range on secondaries  and you will need 2x 4pt cpt skill  Advanced Firing Training + Manual Fire Control for Secondary Armament

 

Auxiliary Armaments Modification 1 

 Increases survivability of the secondary battery and AA mounts:

  • +100% to secondary battery survivability.
  • +100% to AA mounts survivability.

 

 

and

 

Secondary Battery Modification 2

Extends firing range and increases firing accuracy of the secondary battery:

  • +20% to secondary battery maximum firing range.
  • -20% to maximum dispersion of secondary battery shells.

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[BABBY]
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Secondary build is awesome on Gneise because of several reasons:

-this ship desperately needs a point defense against yoloing DD's/Cruisers. The 6 guns have too much RNG in them. Scharnhorst can get away without it because of more guns, sigma and better reload.

-its 128mm's benefit fully from the german HE quirk which allows them to pen up to 31mm (sadly not 32mm) of armor which means they melt everything including BB's of T7 and less

-AA is great even without MAA skill and sufficient against T7 and lesser carriers

 

Fun fact: the 128mm turrets seem alot squishier than the 105mm on Scharn, secondary HP module might be an option for the cost of main turrets/torpedoes HP

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Just as an idea, how about posting a replay or two of you playing the Gneisenau? That way we can give advice on what we see you actually doing instead of just throwing out general statements like we do now... You've very much demonstrated that you are a reasonable guy and very willing to learn, and we've had some pretty good success with this kind of thing in the past.

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2 hours ago, Excavatus said:

thanks for the replies gents..

 

As far as I've learned here,

 

  • skill cap is much harder than the previous KM BBs.. (so this alone I believe the main reason that I play and feel it like a dolphin shaped water bicycle..)
    • learn when to engage, when to disengage,
    • always get into mid or better close range,
    • while the ship is fast, turning is a pain,
  • Secondaries are good.. try to utilise it (refer to the above)
  • dont try to snipe from afar it is useless (change the spotting aircraft then) it is better not to give your position for hittin 1 or 2 overpens in total 50 fired.
  • dont ever go close without backup
  • Has great AAs...
  • Get ready to take huge hits and utilise your HP recovery module wisely (premium consumable.. here I come!)
  • Getting rudder time upgrade will help I presume

So, someone said go for AA build, someone said go for secondary build...

My heart leaning towards secondary... anyone care to elaborate on any of it?

 

another quesiton: is the rest of the line.. worth it.. the fat guys... fredrich and the g.fürst.. are they worth it?

Because the main reason I am playing german BBs are my sentimental attachment to the bismark.

The hunt for the bismark was the first book I've ever read and I was absolutely in tears at the end.. (dont judge me I was 9 )

 

First off: Sorry for the german words in the screen!

gneisenau83utv.png

 

I don't own the Currywurst (yet) but german Battleships from Tier VII to Tier X sadly are the victim of powercreep through the release of the british and french Cruisers, british Battleships as well as the new "Meta" of sitting behind an island/inside a smoke and spamming the 1 key. As you might know, their superstructure is huge and because the decks of german ships were usually made of wood/had a wooden paneling, they burn like a bonfire.

From all 4 Tiers, Gneisenau/Scharnhorst have it the worst, sharing a Tier with such balanced ships like Belfast or Saipan.

 

For Gneisenau itself: I play mine with a mix of AA/secondaries with a 10 points captain. (I miss the days where you could brawl with a DD, win and survive...)

For Bismarck: The guns are far less trolly than Gneisenaus but she got fat...

Friedrich der Große: On the 406mm, in my opinion, the dispersion is like Gneisenaus but as soon as you get the 420mm...oh boy! Not quite the wet dream of any Battleship main but its the first time you see great numbers without hitting the citadelle. And yeah, shes fat too...

 

Oh, I play all my ships in this line from Tier VII upward as a mix of AA/secondaries but more heavy on the secondaries.

But I'am just an average player, don't know if this is of any help for you. :fish_nerv:

Edited by Mandalorianer
Bad english

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[BFS]
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2 hours ago, Eache said:

I dont remember the range of secondarie guns, but remeber that when you get close you can use the torpedoes too so do hou really need a secondary gun upgrade?

 

There have been a number of times in the Bayern (I specced a secondary build captain after a while) and Gneisenau when the secondaries have started to go off and realized that a DD had popped up from an unexpected direction and was taking damage from the secondaries.  I think in the Scharnhorst I've even sunk a DD when it had also appeared (it was badly mauled already).

 

If a DD is close enough for you to send torps at it it's probably too late as it's torps are on their way already.   I think your torps are more defensive and don't have great arcs.

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11 minutes ago, Mandalorianer said:

 

First off: Sorry for the german words in the screen!

gneisenau83utv.png

 

I don't own the Currywurst (yet) but german Battleships from Tier VII to Tier X sadly are the victim of powercreep through the release of the british and french Cruisers, british Battleships as well as the new "Meta" of sitting behind an island/inside a smoke and spamming the 1 key. As you might know, their superstructure is huge and because the decks of german ships were usually made of wood/had a wooden paneling, they burn like a bonfire.

From all 4 Tiers, Gneisenau/Scharnhorst have it the worst, sharing a Tier with such balanced ships like Belfast or Saipan.

 

For Gneisenau itself: I play mine with a mix of AA/secondaries with a 10 points captain. (I miss the days where you could brawl with a DD, win and survive...)

For Bismarck: The guns are far less trolly than Gneisenaus but she got fat...

Friedrich der Große: On the 406mm, in my opinion, the dispersion is like Gneisenaus but as soon as you get the 420mm...oh boy! Not quite the wet dream of any Battleship main but its the first time you see great numbers without hitting the citadelle. And yeah, shes fat too...

 

Oh, I play all my ships in this line from Tier VII upward as a mix of AA/secondaries but more heavy on the secondaries.

But I'am just an average player, don't know if this is of any help for you. :fish_nerv:

 

I forgot to mention that the secondary "nerf" also hurt the germans. Secondaries seem to aim now for the citadelle, rather than the superstructure so you have way more shatters that in the good old days...

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1 minute ago, Mandalorianer said:

 

I forgot to mention that the secondary "nerf" also hurt the germans. Secondaries seem to aim now for the citadelle, rather than the superstructure so you have way more shatters that in the good old days...

that's straight up wrong - they always aimed for center mass. At longer ranges that means they'll fly high enough to go into superstructure, but at short range you'll mostly hit the belt.

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Weekend Tester
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Gneisenau is actually a ship I didn't like that much, it got good results but the guns were some of the most frustrating I've found on any BB. As a result you need to play it aggressively and get close to compensate for awful accuracy, use the secondaries and the torps to make up for the damage your guns denied you at all but close range. I 100% recommend a secondary build for it.

 

There's a fine line between leading a charge, being aggressive and straight-up suicide rushing, one of the hardest lines to find and you'll just have to find it through trial and error. Use common sense, don't charge solo into a horde of enemies supported by their DDs but if you see a lone Colorado who's overextended or has hard cover cutting him off from the rest of his team then he's all yours. Personally I much preferred the Scharnhorst to the Gneis, but Gneis is still a ship that can deliver excellent results under the right conditions.

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