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SovietFury43

Why not give Heavy Cruisers repair to make them viable again?

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The idea to give Heavy Cruisers repair has been discussed for over a year now, and it would solve some of the survivability issues that Heavy Cruisers face in high tier without making them OP.

 

Especially super fragile ships like the Mogami, you can dodge and angle and weave all you want, it is only a matter of time before the RNG decides to give you the finger and gift the BB player an angled citadel hit. Those stupid hits can sometimes literally end your game right there. If the Mogami (for example) had repair, those [edited] citadel hits while punishing would not be game ending. With repair you could still somewhat recover.

 

After all, Atago already has it and is not OP.

 

 

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Can you imagine the howling and moaning of BBabies if this happened?

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3 minutes ago, Aragathor said:

Can you imagine the howling and moaning of BBabies if this happened?

 

The BBabies always have and always will be howling and moaning about something. If its not about HE spam its about torps, if its not about torps its about smoke, or BB gun dispersion.

 

BBabies will always be howling and moaning about something.

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Better still, as the most powerful ships in the game, don't seem to have citadels, (most t9 and t10 BB's have super low/turtleback)  why not remove citadels from cruisers altogether or at least make them smaller?

This maybe a little contentious, but DD's dont have them and most high tier BB's are very hard to citadel, so why not cruisers?

 

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23 minutes ago, jcol said:

Better still, as the most powerful ships in the game, don't seem to have citadels, (most t9 and t10 BB's have super low/turtleback)  why not remove citadels from cruisers altogether or at least make them smaller?

This maybe a little contentious, but DD's dont have them and most high tier BB's are very hard to citadel, so why not cruisers?

 

 

The citadels of all ships should actually be segmented which would also make them smaller and harder to hit. Not one gigantic yellow box that (in the case of most Cruisers) spans almost the entire length of the ship. 

 

But of course then the BB mains would drown in their own tears because they would no longer be able to pull 90k average damage playing with one hand while eating a pizza and doing their toe nails.

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Buff cruisers?

You must be of mad mind comrade.

Shut up before they send you to gulag!

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1 minute ago, El2aZeR said:

Buff cruisers?

You must be of mad mind comrade.

Shut up before they send you to gulag!

 

Rebellions are built on hope.

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Id say CLs could need a heal aswell :cap_yes:

 

If Cruisers would have no Citadel, BBs would need to be more accurate. Maybe a good thing in total, which rewards good aiming. Average BBaby only aims in the general direction and gets often enough rewarded with one stray shell to the citadel. Happened to me often enough - in both ways :cap_fainting:Aim a bit off playing BB? No worries glorious RNG rewards u. Trying to dodge perfectly the BB salvo? Screw u, theres 13k damage...

Or reduce BB damage and make them more accurate. Why do they need to do 12-14k damage maximum?

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Just now, DFens_666 said:

Id say CLs could need a heal aswell :cap_yes:

 

If Cruisers would have no Citadel, BBs would need to be more accurate. Maybe a good thing in total, which rewards good aiming. Average BBaby only aims in the general direction and gets often enough rewarded with one stray shell to the citadel. Happened to me often enough - in both ways :cap_fainting:Aim a bit off playing BB? No worries glorious RNG rewards u. Trying to dodge perfectly the BB salvo? Screw u, theres 13k damage...

Or reduce BB damage and make them more accurate. Why do they need to do 12-14k damage maximum?

 

If I had my way, then I'd change the overmatch mechanic so that any AP shell that overmatches a layer of armour will always be limited to normal penetration damage maximum (unless they hit the citadel hitbox and the armour they overmatched was the actual citadel armour).

 

To offset the reduction of damage potential, BBs get an accuracy buff. So whilst there's no more lolovermatch citadels through the arse against cruisers for BBs to enjoy, having much better accuracy would allow BB players who know how to aim to land better hits more consistently (which also means they can punish broadsiding cruiser more reliably instead of watching their shells avoid a perfectly cooperative target) provided you can aim correctly (and compensate for evasive manouvres against cruiser players who don't straightline).

It would conversely also allow cruiser captains to dodge shells more consistently if their ship is no longer intersecting with the original aiming point as less shells are flying wildly off target that just happen to find themselves hitting the cruiser, resulting in a more skill based interplay (rewards better dodging for cruisers, rewards better aim for BBs).

 

Such an overmatch change would coincidentally also balance the Yamato's lolpen capacity against other BBs so ships like the Montana can get their old citadels back without getting citadeled by overmatching AP volleys through the bow from the Yamato and allow other players to punish BBs for showing their broadsides, i.e.: bring back that layer of positioning skill to seperate poor players from those you can effectively protect their broadsides.

 

 

Imo a Win-Win change.

 

Maybe I can finally get someone from WG to take a look at the proposal this time, what say you @Sub_Octavian, @MrConway, @Kandly, @Tuccy ?

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31 minutes ago, Aotearas said:

 

If I had my way, then I'd change the overmatch mechanic so that any AP shell that overmatches a layer of armour will always be limited to normal penetration damage maximum (unless they hit the citadel hitbox and the armour they overmatched was the actual citadel armour).

 

To offset the reduction of damage potential, BBs get an accuracy buff. So whilst there's no more lolovermatch citadels through the arse against cruisers for BBs to enjoy, having much better accuracy would allow BB players who know how to aim to land better hits more consistently (which also means they can punish broadsiding cruiser more reliably instead of watching their shells avoid a perfectly cooperative target) provided you can aim correctly (and compensate for evasive manouvres against cruiser players who don't straightline).

It would conversely also allow cruiser captains to dodge shells more consistently if their ship is no longer intersecting with the original aiming point as less shells are flying wildly off target that just happen to find themselves hitting the cruiser, resulting in a more skill based interplay (rewards better dodging for cruisers, rewards better aim for BBs).

 

Such an overmatch change would coincidentally also balance the Yamato's lolpen capacity against other BBs so ships like the Montana can get their old citadels back without getting citadeled by overmatching AP volleys through the bow from the Yamato and allow other players to punish BBs for showing their broadsides, i.e.: bring back that layer of positioning skill to seperate poor players from those you can effectively protect their broadsides.

 

 

Imo a Win-Win change.

 

Maybe I can finally get someone from WG to take a look at the proposal this time, what say you @Sub_Octavian, @MrConway, @Kandly, @Tuccy ?

 

This is a brilliant idea!

 

 

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2 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

BBs would need to be more accurate.

2 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

Or reduce BB damage and make them more accurate.

 

Which would allow you to sit at a further distance while scoring more (better?) hits for better average result than you currently do.  Same thing as I say about RN sAP - I don't need to score citadels if my pens do the job anyway

 

Generally (probably with the limited-exception of Germans) BBs already are accurate enough, we really don't need that improved in any way. Better accuracy just means longer effective combat range and nothing more. Probably the biggest reason why I dislike what I've seen about the upcoming FR BBs - long range and excellent accuracy, the only 2 points you need to promote campy long range sniping gameplay. Throw in high speed + spood beest and you don't even have to worry about your flank running out of allies (teams folding? run away!) or out of targets (managed to be too far from everyone? how handy that you can close the distance far easier than any other BB). Unless, of course, that has been changed in the last 2-ish weeks

 

2 hours ago, Aotearas said:

If I had my way, then I'd change the overmatch mechanic so that any AP shell that overmatches a layer of armour will always be limited to normal penetration damage maximum (unless they hit the citadel hitbox and the armour they overmatched was the actual citadel armour).

Afaik the only thing the overmatch does is overrules the autobounce mechanic (at those 70-ish and more degrees away from perpendicular) - you still need enough penetration to go through that armour plate. That's why on some rare occasions you still see BBs bouncing on DDs - shell hit at extreme, almost parallel angles, and even normalization wasn't enough to get the effective armour thin enough even tho you overmatch it.

 

So effectively it's still just a penetration ,and that shell has to have enough time / penetration left to enter the citadel after that. If you hit some plate at an angle where your fuse isn't even armed - overmatching was irrelevant there, it's a pen either way

 

2 hours ago, Aotearas said:

BBs get an accuracy buff.

Just read my answer to DFens

 

2 hours ago, Aotearas said:

ships like the Montana can get their old citadels back without getting citadeled by overmatching AP volleys through the bow

Iowa, Missouri and Montana don't really get bow-citadelled, they get deleted when they give their side to the enemy, even if it's angled. Autobounce works at around 70 degrees 9I mean, differs on some ships / shells, but that's the general) so you can start to be penetrated without any autobouncing 10° + normalization before you can even get your rear turrets in action ( US BBs had 30° for them, right? don't remember). Even now you can comfortably citadel them, just that it's not every shell you land on those ships.

 


 

Buffing BB accuracy is just a bad bad idea.

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12 hours ago, SovietFury43 said:

The idea to give Heavy Cruisers repair has been discussed for over a year now, and it would solve some of the survivability issues that Heavy Cruisers face in high tier without making them OP.

 

Especially super fragile ships like the Mogami, you can dodge and angle and weave all you want, it is only a matter of time before the RNG decides to give you the finger and gift the BB player an angled citadel hit. Those stupid hits can sometimes literally end your game right there. If the Mogami (for example) had repair, those [edited] citadel hits while punishing would not be game ending. With repair you could still somewhat recover.

 

After all, Atago already has it and is not OP.

 

 

 I asked that exact question to Tuccy during a live event and the answer I got was that Wargaming do not want to implement repair parties for cruisers below tier 9, bar the Edinburgh and Atago obviously, as that would make the cruisers look too similar and as Wargaming wants to keep the nations' different 'flavours' there was no plan to generally implement Repair Party consumables for cruisers. Not the answer I was hoping for as it is my point of view that cruisers should have the Repair Party consumable from tier 2 onwards.

Long story short; don't expect Wargaming to implement Repair Party consumables for cruisers other than what is already in the game.

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13 hours ago, Aragathor said:

Can you imagine the howling and moaning of BBabies if this happened?

Yes, i can :Smile-angry: but I think it would still be worth it.:Smile_teethhappy:

 

MAKE MY MOGAMI GREAT AGAIN! :cap_win:

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11 hours ago, Aotearas said:

 

If I had my way, then I'd change the overmatch mechanic so that any AP shell that overmatches a layer of armour will always be limited to normal penetration damage maximum (unless they hit the citadel hitbox and the armour they overmatched was the actual citadel armour).

 

To offset the reduction of damage potential, BBs get an accuracy buff. So whilst there's no more lolovermatch citadels through the arse against cruisers for BBs to enjoy, having much better accuracy would allow BB players who know how to aim to land better hits more consistently (which also means they can punish broadsiding cruiser more reliably instead of watching their shells avoid a perfectly cooperative target) provided you can aim correctly (and compensate for evasive manouvres against cruiser players who don't straightline).

It would conversely also allow cruiser captains to dodge shells more consistently if their ship is no longer intersecting with the original aiming point as less shells are flying wildly off target that just happen to find themselves hitting the cruiser, resulting in a more skill based interplay (rewards better dodging for cruisers, rewards better aim for BBs).

 

Such an overmatch change would coincidentally also balance the Yamato's lolpen capacity against other BBs so ships like the Montana can get their old citadels back without getting citadeled by overmatching AP volleys through the bow from the Yamato and allow other players to punish BBs for showing their broadsides, i.e.: bring back that layer of positioning skill to seperate poor players from those you can effectively protect their broadsides.

 

 

Imo a Win-Win change.

 

Maybe I can finally get someone from WG to take a look at the proposal this time, what say you @Sub_Octavian, @MrConway, @Kandly, @Tuccy ?

And lower BB range to 20km max. We have to get rid of those borderhumping-sniping-useless BBs. Conqs, GKFs and Yammis with range mod:Smile_facepalm:. They dont understand that if you have shoot over 20km you are in a shitty position. 

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8 hours ago, wilkatis_LV said:

 

Which would allow you to sit at a further distance while scoring more (better?) hits for better average result than you currently do.  Same thing as I say about RN sAP - I don't need to score citadels if my pens do the job anyway

 

Generally (probably with the limited-exception of Germans) BBs already are accurate enough, we really don't need that improved in any way. Better accuracy just means longer effective combat range and nothing more. Probably the biggest reason why I dislike what I've seen about the upcoming FR BBs - long range and excellent accuracy, the only 2 points you need to promote campy long range sniping gameplay. Throw in high speed + spood beest and you don't even have to worry about your flank running out of allies (teams folding? run away!) or out of targets (managed to be too far from everyone? how handy that you can close the distance far easier than any other BB). Unless, of course, that has been changed in the last 2-ish weeks

 

However if your aim is off u wont hit as good or at all, and if the target is evading u wont hit at all. With shell flight time at 10+ secs even BBs can somehow evade shells.

Also the question is: Who would get punished more by that? Cruisers or BBs? Its very unrewarding to shoot BBs at high ranges currently, when u hit 2 shells and deal 5k damage. If u get a Cruiser broadside, u can easily get citadels or devastating strikes. But dealing 5k damage to a Cruiser is still better than dealing 5k to a BB in comparison.

Also having shitty dispersion at close-midrange is far worse than having shitty dispersion at longer ranges. Usuaully u have to hit at those ranges, because u are targeted by atleast 1 guy, or more ofc. So u need to get rid of him. He shows full broadside, half your salvo splashes into the water, 3 hit the superstructure and 1 citadel - while at another time u might get 3 citadels and kill that BB. Inconsistency is what makes pushing in BBs something u always have to consider, what happens if i wont kill him?

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Well hopefully with the release of American Light cruisers, they will make different icons for each. But this is actually one thing that can make the Pensacola Viable again. I have her and she really isnt great.... But hopefully, Havy cruisers get their Heal, this is really something viable imo for any cruiser....

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29 minutes ago, RAHJAILARI said:

Yes, i can :Smile-angry: but I think it would still be worth it.:Smile_teethhappy:

 

MAKE MY MOGAMI GREAT AGAIN! :cap_win:

Mogami is already great. 15x155 guns, 16x10km torps, 9,3 km concealment OR 3,4 seconds rudder shift. What more do you want?

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Just now, MMASK said:

Mogami is already great. 15x155 guns, 16x10km torps, 9,3 km concealment OR 3,4 seconds rudder shift. What more do you want?

Just the same newer BBs can do goin broadside the whole time and dont get punished :Smile_teethhappy:

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7 minutes ago, MMASK said:

Mogami is already great. 15x155 guns, 16x10km torps, 9,3 km concealment OR 3,4 seconds rudder shift. What more do you want?

 

Not getting deleted by a stray BB shot at the start of the match would be nice. The Mogami has firepower, but she is just so painfully fragile.

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57 minutes ago, G01ngToxicCommand0 said:

I asked that exact question to Tuccy during a live event and the answer I got was that Wargaming do not want to implement repair parties for cruisers below tier 9, bar the Edinburgh and Atago obviously, as that would make the cruisers look too similar and as Wargaming wants to keep the nations' different 'flavours' there was no plan to generally implement Repair Party consumables for cruisers

 

What a stupid excuse...

 

58 minutes ago, G01ngToxicCommand0 said:

Not the answer I was hoping for as it is my point of view that cruisers should have the Repair Party consumable from tier 2 onwards.

 

100% agree. I never understood the logic, why cruisers shouldnt have access to heal - always!

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7 minutes ago, MMASK said:

Mogami is already great. 15x155 guns, 16x10km torps, 9,3 km concealment OR 3,4 seconds rudder shift. What more do you want?

Glad you asked. 30s rotation on turrets would be nice. :Smile_playing:

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9 minutes ago, SovietFury43 said:

 

Not getting deleted by a stray BB shot at the start of the match would be nice. The Mogami has firepower, but she is just so painfully fragile.

at start with such concealment?

Since I rebought this ship some time ago I have blast always I pick her for battle. Mogami is beast even in TX games, like my yesterdays 160k dmg, 2,5k base xp game.

155mm guns + IFHE is all what this ship needs.

mogami2.jpg.61dd68dd892ed7a58b6457b2b7ce56a6.jpg

 

I dont think that cruisers need heal in general, its strong class like it is.  

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