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BlackYeti

So now that WG has probably sold all the Scharnhorsts in the world by now...

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...maybe it is time to revisit the idea of historical (shorter) A hull and 283mm guns option for the Gneisenau? The "caliber progression" argument is seriously weak and a blatant PR attempt to cover the cash grab that is the Scharnhorst. The two ships would still be different and offer slightly different experience in gameplay, Gneise with B-hull being longer but faster with completely different secondaries. WG would get part of the "lost" money back by selling Gneisenau permacamos and I'm sure there would still be people that buy Scharnhorsts as well because it is such a great trainer.

 

EDIT: I am fully aware that this topic has been discussed to hell and back in the past but I think the dev team should be reminded every once in a while that there are still people longing for this. Probably a lot more than for a weaker KGV copypaste or nerfed downtiered IJN premiums.

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You know, these topics about something someone would like to get changed/added, would go over much better without stupid fallacies about "cash grabs" and other completely pointless accusations leveled at the company you are trying to get to do what you want.

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Well, since I got drunk over X-mas and ended up buying the Schandalholster against all my better (and more sober) instincts, perhaps this comment is irrelevant BUT originally I would have wanted that option for Gneisenau too. I mean why not? Mogami has the option to choose 155mm instead of 203's. Makes perfect sense to me. :Smile_smile:

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5 minutes ago, Nechrom said:

You know, these topics about something someone would like to get changed/added, would go over much better without stupid fallacies about "cash grabs" and other completely pointless accusations leveled at the company you are trying to get to do what you want.

Agreed, this was not in the right tone. I don't intend to apologize just yet though because current situation is simply just as offensive to me. I may edit the OP later when I'm less salty. And yes, I own both the Scharn and the Gneise, complete with permacamo.

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45 minutes ago, Nechrom said:

You know, these topics about something someone would like to get changed/added, would go over much better without stupid fallacies about "cash grabs" and other completely pointless accusations leveled at the company you are trying to get to do what you want.

The caliber progression rule still doesn't make any sense because WG is ignoring it elsewhere left, right and center. I personally don't really believe it's a cashgrab, they just wanted a way to make a "unique" premium everyone is always longing for. If the Gneisenau had 283mm guns on one hull, everyone would just complain how Scharnhorst is a pointless premium. But they certainly have to accept they are having a weak flank to that accusation.

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Hhhehehe, I was gonna say that @Earl_of_Northesk but forgot to. Yup yup and I have to agree with WG here... IT WOULD indeed have made Scahderforster a quite pointless premium, unless of course they were to add some clearly OP consumable or some such (smoke, radar, speedboost, nuke-hydro, Defensive AA anyone?) to justify it.:cap_hmm:

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3 hours ago, Earl_of_Northesk said:

The caliber progression rule still doesn't make any sense because WG is ignoring it elsewhere left, right and center. I personally don't really believe it's a cashgrab, they just wanted a way to make a "unique" premium everyone is always longing for. If the Gneisenau had 283mm guns on one hull, everyone would just complain how Scharnhorst is a pointless premium. But they certainly have to accept they are having a weak flank to that accusation.

Scharnhorst would still be unique because of a completely different set of secondary armament with unique quirks. Gneise's secondaries are awesome in battles of T7 and lower because of 128mm secondaries fully benefitting from the German HE rule. On the Scharnhorst only the 150mm benefit but in return they are able to penetrate 32mm armor which the 128mm can't. Scharn is also smaller and nimbler, although slower.  It is definitely less of a copypaste than a Prinz Eugen, DoY or Salem.

 

And also...

4 hours ago, Earl_of_Northesk said:

I personally don't really believe it's a cashgrab, they just wanted a way to make a "unique" premium everyone is always longing for.

So basically make a ship that people will definitely want to buy over it's tech tree counterpart, therefore-cash grab.

I have both ships and a permacamo an Gneisenau but restricting her only to one set of armament which she did not have (even though it was planned) makes no sense whatsover for reasons other than fear of Scharnhorst sales dropping.

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25 minutes ago, BlackYeti said:

Scharnhorst would still be unique because of a completely different set of secondary armament with unique quirks. Gneise's secondaries are awesome in battles of T7 and lower because of 128mm secondaries fully benefitting from the German HE rule. On the Scharnhorst only the 150mm benefit but in return they are able to penetrate 32mm armor which the 128mm can't. Scharn is also smaller and nimbler, although slower.  It is definitely less of a copypaste than a Prinz Eugen, DoY or Salem.

 

And also...

So basically make a ship that people will definitely want to buy over it's tech tree counterpart, therefore-cash grab.

I have both ships and a permacamo an Gneisenau but restricting her only to one set of armament which she did not have (even though it was planned) makes no sense whatsover for reasons other than fear of Scharnhorst sales dropping.

If it's a cash grab, it's one the community 100% deserves. Look at ships which actually just are premiums modelled after historical sisterships to already existing tech-tree ones, like Alabama or Eugen. Which are essentially what a premium Scharnhorst would be to a 283mm Gneisenau. Please don't act like different secondaires with slightly varrying range would satisfy anyone. This place has long forgotten the purpose of premiums: a different looking ship which has got higher XP gain, captain retraining and moneymaking going for it. The community wants borderline OP ships with consumables. At least the Scharnhorst, while strong, only differs only in armament and playstyle and isn't a straight up upgrade over it's silver counterpart.

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Some sad conclusions there but you are probably right. Nowadays when something isn't a Type 59 it is considered inferior.

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I can tell you that I would love to see one of the Scharnhorst sisters in their very first configuration. I have a soft spot for them (for initial Hipper config as well).

Preferably in that festive, rust-free, whitish, gorgeous looking paint job.

pjLpAR0.jpg

31y5rYd.png&key=7339e689ce84ee3986261378

 

My first thoughts was that Scharnhorst could get that skin + model adjustment as further WG cashgrab opportunity. But the problem is that in that configuration she didnt have many of the AA guns but most notably the torpedo launchers. They could make some AAs just invisible (especially those on top of the turret) and torp launchers simply left there, but it would be a wonky solution.

 

But Gneisenau's A hull is probably better solution. Missing torpedos would hurt her a lot but I think she would be still somewhat competitive. But I would love to take a ride in her just because of that paint job alone.

 

On 11. 1. 2018 at 2:30 PM, Earl_of_Northesk said:

If it's a cash grab, it's one the community 100% deserves. Look at ships which actually just are premiums modelled after historical sisterships to already existing tech-tree ones, like Alabama or Eugen. Which are essentially what a premium Scharnhorst would be to a 283mm Gneisenau. Please don't act like different secondaires with slightly varrying range would satisfy anyone. This place has long forgotten the purpose of premiums: a different looking ship which has got higher XP gain, captain retraining and moneymaking going for it. The community wants borderline OP ships with consumables. At least the Scharnhorst, while strong, only differs only in armament and playstyle and isn't a straight up upgrade over it's silver counterpart.

 

Guys, you somehow missed the most important point here - as Gneisenau's A hull this wouldnt make Scharnhorst pointless, because it is missing the key feature - TORPEDOS

 

EDIT: i just realize that the only one whos talking about 1938 configuration so far is me. my bad

 

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On 11/01/2018 at 3:09 PM, BlackYeti said:

Some sad conclusions there but you are probably right. Nowadays when something isn't a Type 59 it is considered inferior.

 

That awkward moment when you realize that the type 59 hasn't been relevant in over 5 years, but people still hold it to mythical levels. 

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Haha ... good old times when wolfpacks of Types were rushing the maps ... I remember cursing them in my shiny new Tiger II, which I was not able to use properly :Smile_facepalm:

 

I was too late for just about a few weeks to buy the type in 2013, but my son was lucky to get one via X-mas package 2017 and was exited ... at first.

Meanwhile he overcame his disappointment  and went back to the T-34/3 ... no hype with that vehicle but a better tank.

 

Mythical hypes always have their own way ... :Smile_smile:

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On 11.1.2018 at 9:49 AM, Earl_of_Northesk said:

I personally don't really believe it's a cashgrab, ... they just wanted a way to make a "unique" premium everyone is always longing for. 

 

Haha is it Earl-Time again?

 

If you hide a “unique” ship “everyone is longing for” and which is easily among the top three most-wanted ones - at least in Europe - behind a paywall and put the chubby sister nobody cares about in the tree for free...

 

How isn’t this a “cash-grab”?

 

The lame excuse btw proves WG’s intention. But hey they need to make money and fine. 

 

Only criticism: it is never really helpful to come across uber-greedy. And that is something you could accuse WG of in Scharny’s case.

 

But at the end it was a fantastic sale for them so they won’t bother 

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On 11/01/2018 at 2:30 PM, Earl_of_Northesk said:

If it's a cash grab, it's one the community 100% deserves. Look at ships which actually just are premiums modelled after historical sisterships to already existing tech-tree ones, like Alabama or Eugen. Which are essentially what a premium Scharnhorst would be to a 283mm Gneisenau. Please don't act like different secondaires with slightly varrying range would satisfy anyone. This place has long forgotten the purpose of premiums: a different looking ship which has got higher XP gain, captain retraining and moneymaking going for it. The community wants borderline OP ships with consumables. At least the Scharnhorst, while strong, only differs only in armament and playstyle and isn't a straight up upgrade over it's silver counterpart.

 

But it's working for WG.

 

So how do they manage to sell the Massachusetts? Or the Tirps?

 

Both are slight variations of their sister ships and they are sold in their droves. :Smile_amazed:

 

I know people with both the Alabama AND the Massachusetts. People brought the Massachusetts because they wanted secondaries on the NC.  I know it's not a NC class, but to the causal players they don't care.  

 

If they brought out a Secondary Spec Yam people would gobble it up or a Torp boat Conq :cap_haloween:

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3 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

Haha is it Earl-Time again?

Yea, again, 9 months later... :Smile_sceptic:

 

You could at least have read his other post as well in the meantime? :Smile_facepalm:

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11 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

 

Haha is it Earl-Time again?

 

If you hide a “unique” ship “everyone is longing for” and which is easily among the top three most-wanted ones - at least in Europe - behind a paywall and put the chubby sister nobody cares about in the tree for free...

 

How isn’t this a “cash-grab”?

 

The lame excuse btw proves WG’s intention. But hey they need to make money and fine. 

 

Only criticism: it is never really helpful to come across uber-greedy. And that is something you could accuse WG of in Scharny’s case.

 

But at the end it was a fantastic sale for them so they won’t bother 

 

Cant help but agree. :cap_tea:

 

3 ships you think of when talking about the RN.  HMS HOOD, HMS NELSON and a Tribal destroyer.  Guess what?  All of them are premium ships. :Smile_teethhappy:

 

It's a cash grab and I think people are extremely naive to think otherwise, but honestly remember:

 

Screen-shot-2013-07-22-at-3.40.10-PM.png

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32 minutes ago, Saiyko said:

Yea, again, 9 months later... :Smile_sceptic:

 

You could at least have read his other post as well in the meantime? :Smile_facepalm:

 

Like your’s..? Errr nope thanks 

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I would like to correct myself and point out important thing. I was talking about 1938 configuration without atlantic bow, straight funnel, less AA but most importantly - WITHOUT TORPEDOS

I think that still is an option for Gneisenau's A hull as it wouldnt render Scharnhorst pointless. WG could get the money for the time spend on the model with that peace time paintjob.

I would love to have Gneisenau in that form although some people would maybe hate her even more if they would have to grind through hull without the torps...or maybe it would offer interesting trade for her gameplay: 283 without torps or 381 with torps

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1 hour ago, Redcap375 said:

3 ships you think of when talking about the RN.  HMS HOOD, HMS NELSON and a Tribal destroyer.  Guess what?  All of them are premium ships

Where is the Warspite in that list.... it's in game.. and, oh wait... a premium.

Also Ark Royal, but... we all know/suspect how she will be released once RN CV's finally make it into the game.

________________________

 

I believe that the Scharnhorst is still owned by the German Government... under the sovereign immunity rules for wrecks.

 

I enjoy Scharn', but didn't like the Gneis', but the difference in configuration between the two does need to be there, IMO.

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Despit beeing a necro thread, I agree with OP gneise with historic configuration and reserchable b hull that leads to 380s and say hydro or long range sec would be nice and without intruding that much on sharn, people that want sharn will have it one way or the other and those that dont wont

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2 hours ago, Redcap375 said:

 

Cant help but agree. :cap_tea:

 

3 ships you think of when talking about the RN.  HMS HOOD, HMS NELSON and a Tribal destroyer.  Guess what?  All of them are premium ships. :Smile_teethhappy:

 

It's a cash grab and I think people are extremely naive to think otherwise, but honestly remember:

 

Screen-shot-2013-07-22-at-3.40.10-PM.png

Not like Nelson costs you anything though. Yes, you can pay money to get your free exp instead of grinding, but by that measure Yamato is a cash grab, because you could buy your way to free exp it.

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2 hours ago, Saiyko said:

Yea, again, 9 months later... :Smile_sceptic:

 

You could at least have read his other post as well in the meantime? :Smile_facepalm:

I was going to post exactly this :Smile_teethhappy:

Instead, I'll just paste a necro meme

796.jpg

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32 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

Not like Nelson costs you anything though. Yes, you can pay money to get your free exp instead of grinding, but by that measure Yamato is a cash grab, because you could buy your way to free exp it.

 

And how many players spent money to get that then......Hummm. we will never know will we (my guess.....Alot).

 

Putting clans at tier 10 and ranked at tier 10 after tier 8 is ALSO a cash-grab.  You wanna play in these games? Then ££££££££ Free XP because do you think the average Joe player can save that much free XP, without premium too?  It's all designed for you to spend money. There not end game content. 

 

You seem like an intelligent chap so i'm sure you understand how companies like this work.

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Just now, Redcap375 said:

 

And how many players spent money to get that then......Hummm. we will never know will we (my guess.....Alot).

 

 

Yamato or Nelson? Frankly, Yamato is harder to get through grind than Nelson. Especially as Yamato requires grinding a specific line, Nelson you can grind with whatever you want. Technically, Nelson is free and in practice, the amount of free exp is within the boundaries a mortal being can still farm within reasonable time if they put in the effort. Nelson also is not time restricted like some mission marathon. If you want to use the logic that potential exp conversion for Nelson is a cash grab, than the entire game is. And at that point I'd prefer if we not use the rather derogatory term cash grab and refer to it as a business model, which pay-to-progress-faster is. And these folks need something to pay their living expenses from.

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On 11/01/2018 at 9:49 AM, Earl_of_Northesk said:

The caliber progression rule still doesn't make any sense because WG is ignoring it elsewhere left, right and center. I personally don't really believe it's a cashgrab, they just wanted a way to make a "unique" premium everyone is always longing for. If the Gneisenau had 283mm guns on one hull, everyone would just complain how Scharnhorst is a pointless premium. But they certainly have to accept they are having a weak flank to that accusation.

It would still be premium. Look and Hipper and Prinz. One has heal, other better rof, rest are very minor diffrences. Even with option to change guns in Gneis there would still be ways to make those two work and offer unique experience. Scharn could have hydro! That would make sense.

 

 

Edit:

Oh, another NecroAmbush...

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