Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
You need to play a total of 50 battles to post in this section.
wilkatis_LV

Dud Torpedos

27 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

[ADRIA]
[ADRIA]
Players
4,945 posts
7,316 battles

TL;DR version - shortly after arming torps still fail to explode, you can see it in the video at the end of this post

 

For a bit more extensive description check the bug report:

https://forum.worldofwarships.eu/topic/93538-bug-reports/?page=2&tab=comments#comment-2253916

 

Why am I posting this? Well, first of all - haha DDs, enjoy this one :Smile_trollface: On a more serious note - if you have some replays showing this happening (but actually showing your torps hitting as duds not "my torps didn't explode so I think it might be that - you go check it out") or are interested in testing some other ships to see how widespread this bug might be - currently tested only on Kamikaze R, feel free to try it on other ships and post your results here. Some CV mains maybe can even try to reproduce such situation with TBs?

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[UNICS]
Beta Tester
4,769 posts
8,891 battles

No bug. They didn't arm yet.

Just because they displayed as armed doesn't mean they actually did it server-side. The same way you'll see torpedoes passing underneath ships or detonating in the water in front of them, it's down to desync.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SCRUB]
Players
3,346 posts
8,968 battles

Ive had a situation where cv dropped on a ship on other side of island and the torps managed to pass under the island and hit me on the other side. No replay tho and it was like a year ago.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[ONE2]
Players
2,917 posts
17,152 battles

Hehehe! yeah, I got a near heart-attack in my Myoko once, when a CV, which was clearly stalking a BB to my side unexpectedly dropped his entire torpedo load right on my foredeck. Luckily they did not detonate either so I got off from that one with just some serious jitters and noticeable yellow-brown patches in my pants... Fun stuff. :Smile_ohmy::etc_red_button::Smile_teethhappy:

panic.jpg.573f785221db17b839f3681a822db3b5.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[BLITZ]
Players
2,779 posts
10,269 battles
5 hours ago, Nechrom said:

No bug. They didn't arm yet.

Just because they displayed as armed doesn't mean they actually did it server-side. The same way you'll see torpedoes passing underneath ships or detonating in the water in front of them, it's down to desync.

Then it's a quite huge desync. Look how far Cesare in the green/yellow area is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[OMNI]
Players
341 posts
8,136 battles
8 minutes ago, SeeteufeI said:

Then it's a quite huge desync. Look how far Cesare in the green/yellow area is.

The green area has always been a lie, it doesn't accurately show the arming distance.

  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[BLITZ]
Players
2,779 posts
10,269 battles
8 minutes ago, XTHD said:

The green area has always been a lie, it doesn't accurately show the arming distance.

Ok... well as long as they arm after reaching that area I'm fine, only using it for scaring the shiP out of division mates. :Smile_trollface:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[UNICS]
Beta Tester
4,769 posts
8,891 battles
1 minute ago, SeeteufeI said:

Then it's a quite huge desync. Look how far Cesare in the green/yellow area is.

 

When they hit, yes. But that's not how that indicator works.

The Kamikaze is moving away from the GC, fires the rearmost launchers and the GC is moving into the torpedoes. So not only is the range between the DD and the BB increasing between the launch and the hit, the range the torpedoes got to travel is also less than the distance between the DD and the BB when they were launched.

Adding to this I'm pretty sure, though I have no proof of this, that the arming range indicator isn't accurate for every case since it's centered on the middle of the ship and I would imagine the arming range is the same range for every torpedo on the ship. So the indicator would be incorrect for launchers not mounted at the exact middle point of the ship.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[OMNI]
Players
341 posts
8,136 battles
1 minute ago, SeeteufeI said:

Ok... well as long as they arm after reaching that area I'm fine, only using it for scaring the shiP out of division mates. :Smile_trollface:

For some ships they arm well before reaching that area. :fish_glass:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
1,564 posts
10,237 battles
13 minutes ago, Nechrom said:

 

When they hit, yes. But that's not how that indicator works.

The Kamikaze is moving away from the GC, fires the rearmost launchers and the GC is moving into the torpedoes. So not only is the range between the DD and the BB increasing between the launch and the hit, the range the torpedoes got to travel is also less than the distance between the DD and the BB when they were launched.

Adding to this I'm pretty sure, though I have no proof of this, that the arming range indicator isn't accurate for every case since it's centered on the middle of the ship and I would imagine the arming range is the same range for every torpedo on the ship. So the indicator would be incorrect for launchers not mounted at the exact middle point of the ship.

 

 

This.

 

It show for center of ship. not bow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[F_D]
Alpha Tester
1,194 posts
5,485 battles
30 minutes ago, Nechrom said:

Adding to this I'm pretty sure, though I have no proof of this, that the arming range indicator isn't accurate for every case since it's centered on the middle of the ship and I would imagine the arming range is the same range for every torpedo on the ship. So the indicator would be incorrect for launchers not mounted at the exact middle point of the ship.

To be precise arming torps isn't done by range but by time. Ship torpedos arm 1.0 (if I'm not mistaken, could also be1.5) seconds after launch. There is also a delay from you pressing the mouse button to the server actually recognizing the launch which also adds to the desync problem.

 

And yes, off center launchers aim in- or outside the range indicator because the torpedo travels from the launcher and not from the center of the ship. Otherwise the UI would have to render a circle for every launcher - and it would still be off in very close proximity to movement and arming delay being calculated server side and not client side like the UI indicator.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[ADRIA]
[ADRIA]
Players
4,945 posts
7,316 battles
58 minutes ago, XTHD said:

The green area has always been a lie, it doesn't accurately show the arming distance.

I think I linked the other video at the end as recommended, anyway, there I’ve shown testing of that green line. For DDs it’s accurate (for all launchers but I’ll go into that below), while it varies for cruisers & BBs - with those torps arming before they reach the line.

53 minutes ago, Nechrom said:

But that's not how that indicator works.

 

the range the torpedoes got to travel is also less than the distance between the DD and the BB when they were launched.

 

Adding to this I'm pretty sure, though I have no proof of this, that the arming range indicator isn't accurate for every case since it's centered on the middle of the ship and I would imagine the arming range is the same range for every torpedo on the ship. So the indicator would be incorrect for launchers not mounted at the exact middle point of the ship.

Well, you can see in the video that there was enough distance between me and GC. He basically had to cover half of the range torps would need to get there and activate, so...unless he can do 34kts in a turn...

 

Also same as previous answer - I do have some proof :Smile_teethhappy: the video recommendation should be at the end, but here’s the TL;DR version - launching middle set is accurate on the middle, launching bow/stern torps are accurate on their respective ends of the arc. If aimed off of the “good zone” at worst DD torps might arm right before the line, but for them that indicator is accurate. Worst case I’ve seen is Kii - arming about halfway to the line. But that’s exactly the trend - if the line is incorrect torps will arm before not after it :cap_like:

 

51 minutes ago, XTHD said:

For some ships they arm well before reaching that area. :fish_glass:

And those ships (generally) happen to be BBs and CA/Ls

 

23 minutes ago, Adwaenyth said:

And yes, off center launchers aim in- or outside the range indicator because the torpedo travels from the launcher and not from the center of the ship. Otherwise the UI would have to render a circle for every launcher - and it would still be off in very close proximity to movement and arming delay being calculated server side and not client side like the UI indicator.

It actually renders an ellipse for all your launchers not a circle for the currently selected. 

And off-center launchers (on DDs) still arm on the arc or right before it. If memory serves me right there is no ship whos torps would actually arm outside the indicator, if the indicator is wrong torps simply arm before reaching it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
94 posts
678 battles

The third salvo of torpedoes has an interesting track - they appear to never actually pass through the "arming zone" until the moment of impact, as the turn and launch actually throw them behind the firing arcs.

However, another poster has suggested arming is by time, not distance, which would invalidate that theory.

 

With respect to your testing against the Yamato, we can see that prior to that clip, you have already struck the bow with the middle launcher - this second salvo deals no damage presumably because the bow section was drained of sector HP?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[UNICS]
Beta Tester
4,769 posts
8,891 battles
17 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

Well, you can see in the video that there was enough distance between me and GC. He basically had to cover half of the range torps would need to get there and activate, so...unless he can do 34kts in a turn...

 

This is the exact frame where the torps are launched:

torp_arming01.png

 

That's not a lot of distance to cover.

 

Obviously client-side the torps armed, so that means from your perspective they should have. No question about that.

But in extreme edge cases like this, desync can make that crucial bit of difference.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[ADRIA]
[ADRIA]
Players
4,945 posts
7,316 battles
28 minutes ago, Nechrom said:

That's not a lot of distance to cover.

Damnit, I looked at just the first clip and took my guess from there :Smile_teethhappy:

 

So the distance ratio is about 4.5 to 1.... Screw it, I'll just overlay those 2 to see how much he moved (should have thought of this earlier, haha). Well, apparently not much (recommended to play on something like x0.5 speed as that 5s clip goes by quite fast)

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[F_D]
Alpha Tester
1,194 posts
5,485 battles

Another problem arises from this being a replay.

 

Replays do not always display the positions and orientations accurately. Usually it isn't off by much, but in this case precision is key. The server obviously came to the result, that the torpedoes did not arm in time, the client however did.

 

Too bad it's impossible to tell from a video, was the position of the GC off, was the launch point of the Kamikaze off, were both off or is it just a replay bug.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[ADRIA]
[ADRIA]
Players
4,945 posts
7,316 battles
21 minutes ago, Adwaenyth said:

Another problem arises from this being a replay.

 

Replays do not always display the positions and orientations accurately.

Game is a replay (even tho I spotted it in the live game - that's why I went back for it).

All the testing / reproducing is a live recording not taken from a replay :cap_like:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[F_D]
Alpha Tester
1,194 posts
5,485 battles
16 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

Game is a replay (even tho I spotted it in the live game - that's why I went back for it).

All the testing / reproducing is a live recording not taken from a replay :cap_like:

How do you see different view angles when you live recorded a game? If you have the perspective from different camera angles it has to be a replay and the way the engine processes the replay is notoriously buggy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[ADRIA]
[ADRIA]
Players
4,945 posts
7,316 battles
14 minutes ago, Adwaenyth said:

How do you see different view angles when you live recorded a game? If you have the perspective from different camera angles it has to be a replay and the way the engine processes the replay is notoriously buggy.

I'm guessing you didn't watch it all the way through?

 

Anyway, I spotted my torps hitting GC but not exploding in-game, that's why I went for the replay. Also you can use freecam (Ctrl+Shift+Backspace) in a live game to get different viewing angles, altho I wouldn't recommend it.

Those first 3 clips - my point of view, aerial view and the sideways slow-motion - are from replay. After that you can see me testing in training room - that's a live recording (hitting Yamato, Hakuryu,  Midway) not a replay.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[F_D]
Alpha Tester
1,194 posts
5,485 battles

Okay in the later case the question is, how much is the difference between the torps detonating and not detonating.

 

The torpedo does not spawn at your own ships center, but in the water slightly away from your ship. And from there it moves with the torpedo speed and arms after the arming delay.

 

If the ellipse is drawn from your own ship and has your ship's center as the torpedo point of origin, it might well be that the distance indicated by the ellipse is too short if it just takes torpedo speed and your own ship's as the torpedo's point of origin.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[ADRIA]
[ADRIA]
Players
4,945 posts
7,316 battles
15 minutes ago, Adwaenyth said:

Okay in the later case the question is, how much is the difference between the torps detonating and not detonating.

 

The torpedo does not spawn at your own ships center, but in the water slightly away from your ship. And from there it moves with the torpedo speed and arms after the arming delay.

 

If the ellipse is drawn from your own ship and has your ship's center as the torpedo point of origin, it might well be that the distance indicated by the ellipse is too short if it just takes torpedo speed and your own ship's as the torpedo's point of origin.

 

It should start at 2:50, if it doesn't - that's where the Kamikaze R is (clip is like 10...12s long for her). Red dots are the points where the arming indicator (triangle) appears (yeah, I went through all those videos frame by frame to mark it :Smile_teethhappy:)

 

 

If you watch it all - torps arm either more or less on the marker or before it (extreme cases would be something like Kii or Graf Spee arming basically half-way to it)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[F_D]
Alpha Tester
1,194 posts
5,485 battles

Interesting. Being recorded at 25 fps I guess then the frame by frame will have a margin of error of 1/25 s * (torp speed in knots) * 0.51444 m/s / kt (Or 1.5m for the fastest 76kt torps).

 

However what you produce seems to have an arming point that is off by more than 1.5m in the worst scenarios, so this might be lag induced.

 

Next question would be, when is the "active" marker triggered. Is it client side only or is it after the server confirmed the torp as active. From the first look, it seems like it's client side only, meaning it triggers as soon as the client thought the arming delay passed after the fire button was triggered. If there is a slight lag between client and server, it is entirely possible, that the client shows the "active" marker although it isn't active on the server.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[ADRIA]
[ADRIA]
Players
4,945 posts
7,316 battles
47 minutes ago, Adwaenyth said:

Interesting. Being recorded at 25 fps I guess then the frame by frame will have a margin of error of 1/25 s * (torp speed in knots) * 0.51444 m/s / kt (Or 1.5m for the fastest 76kt torps).

 

However what you produce seems to have an arming point that is off by more than 1.5m in the worst scenarios, so this might be lag induced.

 

Next question would be, when is the "active" marker triggered. Is it client side only or is it after the server confirmed the torp as active. From the first look, it seems like it's client side only, meaning it triggers as soon as the client thought the arming delay passed after the fire button was triggered. If there is a slight lag between client and server, it is entirely possible, that the client shows the "active" marker although it isn't active on the server.

30 FPS, but yeah, it's something like that

 

I reported it as a bug quite a while ago, and the answer was "oh, well that doesn't look good" :Smile_teethhappy:

 

I also thought it could be some lag issue, but it really shouldn't be :cap_yes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×