Are there any plans to do something with the IJN DDs any time soon?

[SovietFury43]

Japanese destroyers are basically unplayable. Or at the very least, not very fun to play.

 

Their main source of damage are torpedoes. Torpedoes that have been butchered with nerfs to a point where even a lobotomized chimp can easily dodge them. You can have a game where you launch 50 torps and get no hits. The torps get spotted a mile away from the enemy, and even the most sluggish BBs can easily dodge them. For the most part, scoring torpedo hits is down to the enemy being incredibly stupid.

 

Their guns are for the most part crap (with a few exceptions). They have pathetic range and the turrets turn stupidly slow, forcing you to sail in a predictable pattern to keep your guns on target. You could take the AFT skill to get a little more range, but CE is just a MUCH better choice. Overall, guns simply are not intended to be your primary weapon. 

 

All that leaves you with only scouting as something you can do well, because they do have good concealment. But scouting alone simply is not rewarded enough to base an entire line of ships on it.

[Aragathor]

According to WG they are fine, since their torpedoes have the highest detection radius of all nations. /s

 

Don't expect anything to change for the better.

[ColonelPete]

Unplayable?

A couple thousand players see that differently.

[Mandyxx]

2 hours ago, SovietFury43 said:

Japanese destroyers are basically unplayable. Or at the very least, not very fun to play.

Huh?

 

 

[RAHJAILARI]

5 hours ago, SovietFury43 said:

... The torps get spotted a mile away from the enemy...

True dat... 1,8 km for Shimatorps to be precise. But it is still possible to get hits, luckily we still have plenty of chimps out there. Though that said. I, in principle I tend to  agree with you on this one.

 

I would like to see the DD's redone in such a way that the sk. IJN !"Gunboats" would actually be better gunboats than their Tropedo-boat cousins and vice-versa. As it is now, well Shiratsuy rather absurdly is a way better torpedo boat that Akatsuki and bafflingly Akatsuki is also a better gunboat that Shiratsuy. That makes no sense to me whatsoever. Also while Fubuki is clearly a better Torpedo boat that Hatsu, they are actually just about equal in terms of guns.

 

it would seem to me that generally speaking Torp boats should be weaker on gun power, but better on stealth and agility (Akatsuki), while the gunboats could be faster (Shira & Aki) with markedly better guns to fulfill their intended role. At this point this is all kinda jumbled up and neither DD line does not stay true to its intended "character".

 

And perhaps the dedicated torp boats, while initially slower than gunboats, could have an improved engine boost consumable, like the French, which would give them significantly improved speed for a short period of time, since they are basically defenseless against the gunboats, so to give them a chance to at least try and run away.

 

Ever tried to get away from a Leningrad in a Fubuki anyone?

 

Oh yeah, a good torpedo tip: Anticipate the enemy taking evasive action and do not solely rely on the torp lead indicator when firing them. So, if you have 3 torp launchers, just aim the first one according to the lead indicator and the rest taking into account that the enemy will turn and you will score some hits for sure.

[Unknown_Lifeform]

They've been testing an alternative version of the Shima lately so it seems to be something that is on their radar but I wouldn't expect anything any time soon.

[RUSSIANBlAS]

Don't know about unplayable but the highest detection range on the torps is annoying as you see ships dodge what should be good torps. I don't get nearly as many dodges on other nation's torps.

 

I still remember the days of no free Situational Awareness and powerful IJN DDs and I didn't cry at imba then... WG have biases and pander to people who don't want to learn the game.

[Ze_Reckless]

Most people don't know how to play IJN DDs that's the real problem here.

 

It's true that the 12 km torpedoes are the worst of all nations but they are good enough. Don't forget that you get to launch a lot of them at once. If you want to have better torpedoes, pick the F3s. Yugumo with TRB and F3s is a ton of fun.

[SovietFury43]

3 hours ago, Mandyxx said:

Huh?

 

 

 

I never said you can't occasionally do well with them. But doing well pretty much requires the enemy to be stupid.

[Elypse201]

I  don't know what you have. I love the IJN DD's more then every ship line in the game (okay IJN CV's are very awesome too. Especially this wonderfull T8). Hard hitting torps, with a perfect rudder shift (atm on my shima 2,9sec) and a good concealment is just awesome. 

[Excavatus]

My main class is IJN torp boats.

Yes I only played tier 8 tops. Still playing it in ranked today..

I've never played IJN torp boats before the nerf..

But I believe they were hugely OP then.. Because the current situation of them are good enough for people who knows what to do..

39knot speed with engine boost, and 5.4km detectability on kageru... it is a nasty surprise for a lot of players.

 

And lets accept, there are a lot of "Chimps" as you mentioned than nice players in BBs.

forget about sailing in a straight line, If you position yourself good enough, you can find at least 2 BBs, sailing BACKWARDS in a straight lines in every random game.

 

and for my opinion, having 10km range doesnt mean you drop torps at 9.5km... I usually force it to the 6kms..

sometimes I drop torps even for 11kms for BBs or 12kms for Cruisers.. If they are sailing towards me.. but those are not intended to hit.. but for forcing them to some point.

 

Remember, torps can have a very nice way of changing direction of the enemy and push them towards to your friends..

and you can always warn your BBs about, "Wait till he see my torps.. he will give you a broadside in 20 seconds" you cant imagine how many times that tactic worsk..

 

Yes.. you are right, you miss may be %90 of your torps.. and giving damage is the most important way to earn XP and credits..

but DDs, especially IJN DDs have much versitile ways to contirubite in a win and winning has a better multiplier for XP and credits.

[Miessa3]

But...but... they have high damage torpedos! AND can hit (and mostly sink with one torp) enemy DDs stupid enough to get hit. That most be worth something right? And you can totally use your superior stealth when most gunboat DDs use RPF nowadays.......

/sarcasm off

 

18 minutes ago, Excavatus said:

My main class is IJN torp boats.

Yes I only played tier 8 tops. Still playing it in ranked today..

I've never played IJN torp boats before the nerf..

But I believe they were hugely OP then.. Because the current situation of them are good enough for people who knows what to do..

39knot speed with engine boost, and 5.4km detectability on kageru... it is a nasty surprise for a lot of players.

 

And lets accept, there are a lot of "Chimps" as you mentioned than nice players in BBs.

forget about sailing in a straight line, If you position yourself good enough, you can find at least 2 BBs, sailing BACKWARDS in a straight lines in every random game.

 

and for my opinion, having 10km range doesnt mean you drop torps at 9.5km... I usually force it to the 6kms..

sometimes I drop torps even for 11kms for BBs or 12kms for Cruisers.. If they are sailing towards me.. but those are not intended to hit.. but for forcing them to some point.

 

Remember, torps can have a very nice way of changing direction of the enemy and push them towards to your friends..

and you can always warn your BBs about, "Wait till he see my torps.. he will give you a broadside in 20 seconds" you cant imagine how many times that tactic worsk..

 

Yes.. you are right, you miss may be %90 of your torps.. and giving damage is the most important way to earn XP and credits..

but DDs, especially IJN DDs have much versitile ways to contirubite in a win and winning has a better multiplier for XP and credits.

The problem isn't that good players still can make IJN DDs work and that there will always be baddys in BBs.

The problem is that most IJN DDs (save Aki) on average can't do anything the Fletcher can't do even better.

The IJN DDs due to getting their Torpedos hit so hard by the nerfbat got powercreeped by other DDs (especially the new PA DDs if you don't count the occasional torpedohit on a DD).

The only reason IJN DDs are still doing "ok" and are fine according to WGs data is because they are played mostly by the "good" players now and everyone else (of the regular players - not counting those grinding the line or only picking IJN for some mission) just left and most likely went to BBs or other DDs. Though some playing the Shima didn't get the memo i guess, maybe because "lol 15 Torpedos!"

 

Yes Kami sisters are OP (which shows how they nerfed Tier V DDs as Kami was the same as Minekaze back in the day).

Akizuki is a strong pick for Tier VIII. Shira may still count as strong torpedoboat even though that was nerfed hard by having her choose between smoke and TRB.

Everything else is just meh and you will find a DD on every Tier in another nation that is just flatout better.

[Excavatus]

1 minute ago, Miessa3 said:

But...but... they have high damage torpedos! AND can hit (and mostly sink with one torp) enemy DDs stupid enough to get hit. That most be worth something right? And you can totally use your superior stealth when most gunboat DDs use RPF nowadays.......

/sarcasm off

 

The problem isn't that good players still can make IJN DDs work and that there will always be baddys in BBs.

The problem is that most IJN DDs (save Aki) on average can't do anything the Fletcher can't do even better.

The IJN DDs due to getting their Torpedos hit so hard by the nerfbat got powercreeped by other DDs (especially the new PA DDs if you don't count the occasional torpedohit on a DD).

The only reason IJN DDs are still doing "ok" and are fine according to WGs data is because they are played mostly by the "good" players now and everyone else (of the regular players - not counting those grinding the line or only picking IJN for some mission) just left and most likely went to BBs or other DDs. Though some playing the Shima didn't get the memo i guess, maybe because "lol 15 Torpedos!"

 

I dont know, as I've said I've never ever played IJN DDs before nerf,

but I have huge fun in them :)

I dont consider myself a good player.. not an average one either... but most of the DDs players I encounter in US or KN DDs, I can handle them quite nicely..

I have some problems with PA DDs.. but not that much.. I am learning.. For me the concealment part is mostly enough to do well..

 

My main problem in them though, my teammates..

I see a kidd and a fletcher on the enemy team.. and they tell me " you are a DD, go in and cap!" while the cap is being contested..

facing even one of those DDs.. are either a certain death.. or If I am lucky.. a waste of half my HP and one of my smokes...

 

finding either of them on open seas... is a totally different story for me :)

[Miessa3]

12 minutes ago, Excavatus said:

finding either of them on open seas... is a totally different story for me :)

...not if they have RPF which they should if they are any good especially on Kidd (because premium). They will find you, they are faster than you and you will turn into cheese once they see you.

The only way to outrun them is because they have to bail out because you are hiding in the spotting range of your team.

 

Sometimes when I know there is a IJN DD that doesn't have teammates left to hide behind in any of my gunboat DDs i make fun out of it and type in all chat: "just give up. You can run but you can't hide"

[Excavatus]

22 minutes ago, Miessa3 said:

...not if they have RPF which they should if they are any good especially on Kidd (because premium). They will find you, they are faster than you and you will turn into cheese once they see you.

The only way to outrun them is because they have to bail out because you are hiding in the spotting range of your team.

 

Sometimes when I know there is a IJN DD that doesn't have teammates left to hide behind in any of my gunboat DDs i make fun out of it and type in all chat: "just give up. You can run but you can't hide"

 

Yes I cant hide..

But our opinional differences on the matter is coming from your "overestimation of individual skill levels of DD captains"

You think everyone plays like you :)

 

They dont...

Especially, players I encountered reacts like terrified hamsters when they see torps..

 

I agree though.. a captain who know how to sail a kidd.. is just a death sentence for me If we get one on one :)

[Miessa3]

10 minutes ago, Excavatus said:

 

Yes I cant hide..

But our opinional differences on the matter is coming from your "overestimation of individual skill levels of DD captains"

You think everyone plays like you :)

 

They dont...

Especially, players I encountered reacts like terrified hamsters when they see torps..

 

I agree though.. a captain who know how to sail a kidd.. is just a death sentence for me If we get one on one :)

True.

Just like in the BBs there are some very bad DDs out there. It is usualy easier to see bad BBs because they live longer even though they are doing it wrong and due to bad positioning (and because there is more of them due to the BB numbers) but the keen eye will spot those baddys in DDs easiliy.

Those DDs that will:

 

-go straight for the cap no matter the enemylineup and smoke up as they arrive there even when not spotted and stay in smoke.

-Launch Torpedos at destroyers with a few thousand hitpoints left even though said DD is spotting and shooting him instead of using their own guns and kill the enemy DD in a matter of secounds.

-lauch torpedos from 2. line at targets out of their torpedorange at targets not even moving towards them.

-in a gunfight where two opposing DDs ran into each other except the baddy will just get scared dump of the torpedos in the enemy DDs direction pop smoke and run (not using the guns) no matter of the hp difference. (especially the rare captains left on IJN DDs are prone to this)

-ignore caps to flank all the way around the border to either get the enemy CV or better torpedo angles on the BBs. (and getting murdered by DDs with RPF)

- manage to miss all their torpedos from under 4km range...

 

I have seen a lot of mindblowing stupid things from friendly DDs (after i died).

 

BUT the fact that good players will farm those baddies even in IJN DDs doesn't change the fact that DDs of other nations are (mostly) just flat out better and will be the deciding factor when captains of equal skilllevels meet.

[Excavatus]

18 minutes ago, Miessa3 said:

True.

Just like in the BBs there are some very bad DDs out there. It is usualy easier to see bad BBs because they live longer even though they are doing it wrong and due to bad positioning (and because there is more of them due to the BB numbers) but the keen eye will spot those baddys in DDs easiliy.

Those DDs that will:

Oh oH! me like this! lets check :)

 

-go straight for the cap no matter the enemylineup and smoke up as they arrive there even when not spotted and stay in smoke.

I dont go straight caps (unless I am in ranked) and even If I do sometimes.. I never ever sit in cap in smoke.. NO

-Launch Torpedos at destroyers with a few thousand hitpoints left even though said DD is spotting and shooting him instead of using their own guns and kill the enemy DD in a matter of secounds.

Never ever launch torps to enemy DDs.. Unless in a very close range gun duel.. it is mostly pointles.. may be %1 you can hit them.. doesnt worth for the reload.. But on the other hand, I prefer not to get into gun duels with other DDs... Unless they have half of their HP's shaved! NO

-lauch torpedos from 2. line at targets out of their torpedorange at targets not even moving towards them.

Jingles told me before I start this game.. NEVER EVER LAUNCH TORPS FROM SECOND LINE! (I confess I do that sometimes.. but I am good at to calculate) NO

-in a gunfight where two opposing DDs ran into each other except the baddy will just get scared dump of the torpedos in the enemy DDs direction pop smoke and run (not using the guns) no matter of the hp difference. (especially the rare captains left on IJN DDs are prone to this)

Ok.. If I get into a detection range of an enemy DD.. I prefer to pop smoke and run.. but not If the enemy DD is low on health.. I count this as YES

-ignore caps to flank all the way around the border to either get the enemy CV or better torpedo angles on the BBs. (and getting murdered by DDs with RPF)

If I dont have a backup behind me.. I usually dont go to caps, but dont sail on red line either.. torping BBs who are engaging with my teammates are rather easy.. while I sail in between them :) I will count this as a NO

- manage to miss all their torpedos from under 4km range...

ok this is plain stupid.. how they even!!!... NO

I have seen a lot of mindblowing stupid things from friendly DDs (after i died).

 

BUT the fact that good players will farm those baddies even in IJN DDs doesn't change the fact that DDs of other nations are (mostly) just flat out better and will be the deciding factor when captains of equal skilllevels meet.

 

Ok, I just tested myself.. 1 stupid move out of 6.. I think I am ok :)

 

jokes aside.. sometimes I cant even understand the decisions my brain taking.. I look into a mirror and ask myself "what kind of an idiot are you?"

That is what I love about DDs actually.. you dont have any chance to make a single mistake.. you do.. sleeping with the fish!

On the other hand, you say almost all the other DDs are flat out better then the IJN... I dont know.. KN DDs.. I cant make them work at all.. I actually didnt play them at all

US DDs.. a totally different style to play.. I am at farragut.. and that thing.. OMG.. what kind of a fire power is that??

 

But I prefer IJN DDs for one and only reason.. concealment... I fits for the style I like to play.. stealthy.. hiding.. accept it.. 5.4km detectability range is plain ridiculous..

Most of the DD captains in randoms.. doesnt know the value of RPF and most of the kutuzov (and like) cruiser captains.. sail 15km away from caps and the major group of their BBs.. I just want to shout "YOU HAVE A 11+km range RADAR YOU MOROOON!!"

 

But I dont :) I love them like this.

[Miessa3]

8 minutes ago, Excavatus said:

 

Ok, I just tested myself.. 1 stupid move out of 6.. I think I am ok :)

 

jokes aside.. sometimes I cant even understand the decisions my brain taking.. I look into a mirror and ask myself "what kind of an idiot are you?"

That is what I love about DDs actually.. you dont have any chance to make a single mistake.. you do.. sleeping with the fish!

On the other hand, you say almost all the other DDs are flat out better then the IJN... I dont know.. KN DDs.. I cant make them work at all.. I actually didnt play them at all

US DDs.. a totally different style to play.. I am at farragut.. and that thing.. OMG.. what kind of a fire power is that??

 

But I prefer IJN DDs for one and only reason.. concealment... I fits for the style I like to play.. stealthy.. hiding.. accept it.. 5.4km detectability range is plain ridiculous..

Most of the DD captains in randoms.. doesnt know the value of RPF and most of the kutuzov (and like) cruiser captains.. sail 15km away from caps and the major group of their BBs.. I just want to shout "YOU HAVE A 11+km range RADAR YOU MOROOON!!"

 

But I dont :) I love them like this.

Well sometimes it is the right move to run for it to survive and fight another day (as in 3 minutes later into the game). The HP difference is the big part.

It always triggeres me hard to see IJN DDs running desperatly from a 2-3k HP gunboat DD after missing their torpedos only for the gunboat to catch up and gunning them down without much resistance.

 

Don't get me wrong I like IJN DDs too. Thats why it broke my heart when RPF was forced into the game even over the rightful concerns of the community.

I adapted and changed my playstyle accordingly. I still bring out my IJN DDs that stayed in port (namely Fujin, Shinonome, Shiratsuyu, Akizuki, Harekaze and Shima) to have some fun torping straght lining BBs into oblivion. I know i will do so again tomorrow to get those 90k dmg with torpedos mission from the current campaign.

But I am sad seeing them as a shadow of the Ships they used to be. (well except Fujin for reasons )

 

I like the concealment game too. But you have to be good to do that. Staying in the sweetspot to spot the enemy DD without being spotted yourself while having the patience to NOT pull the trigger. But then you still rely on your team....

[Excavatus]

1 hour ago, Miessa3 said:

Well sometimes it is the right move to run for it to survive and fight another day (as in 3 minutes later into the game). The HP difference is the big part.

It always triggeres me hard to see IJN DDs running desperatly from a 2-3k HP gunboat DD after missing their torpedos only for the gunboat to catch up and gunning them down without much resistance.

 

Don't get me wrong I like IJN DDs too. Thats why it broke my heart when RPF was forced into the game even over the rightful concerns of the community.

I adapted and changed my playstyle accordingly. I still bring out my IJN DDs that stayed in port (namely Fujin, Shinonome, Shiratsuyu, Akizuki, Harekaze and Shima) to have some fun torping straght lining BBs into oblivion. I know i will do so again tomorrow to get those 90k dmg with torpedos mission from the current campaign.

But I am sad seeing them as a shadow of the Ships they used to be. (well except Fujin for reasons )

 

I like the concealment game too. But you have to be good to do that. Staying in the sweetspot to spot the enemy DD without being spotted yourself while having the patience to NOT pull the trigger. But then you still rely on your team....

 

I strongly believe it is a good thing for me that I never played IJN DDs before nerf. :)

Because I really love them now and cant imagine how they can be in that time..

 

and the last bit in your message.. staying in that sweet spot.. that suspense is the whole point I play these ships :) they keep spotted.. try to figure out where is that bastard.. and cant.. moving erratically.. and boom.. there he is.. ! I am detected.. and at that point I am like "Shite! shite! shite!" :P

 

My only concern is, from what I've read from the forum.. I dont want to get dissappointed when I get my shima!

I have a huge and unsupported belief that shima is a beast...

[Miessa3]

1 hour ago, Excavatus said:

 

I strongly believe it is a good thing for me that I never played IJN DDs before nerf. :)

Because I really love them now and cant imagine how they can be in that time..

 

and the last bit in your message.. staying in that sweet spot.. that suspense is the whole point I play these ships :) they keep spotted.. try to figure out where is that bastard.. and cant.. moving erratically.. and boom.. there he is.. ! I am detected.. and at that point I am like "Shite! shite! shite!" :P

 

My only concern is, from what I've read from the forum.. I dont want to get dissappointed when I get my shima!

I have a huge and unsupported belief that shima is a beast...

The Shima is still a beast.

The others are just so much better at hunting DDs (and even at Torping)... She is all about those 3 lauchers x 5 Torpedos and the IJN Torpedo damage.

The shima is still dangerous with 12 km torpedos and especially the 8km ones (prepare for an awful stock grind with the 20 km ones for those). But to use them both of them need skill in form of map awareness positioning and dancing around radar/Hydro.

Back in the day the 20 km Torpedos where just as dangerous because they were just as hard to dodge and there were no Radar and Hydro back then. That lead to everyone grinding for "the op ship" so the matches got crowed by Shimas which resulted in the infamous "torpedosoup" (you can imagine how it was with 5 Shimas per side each with 15 torpedos every two minutes that would run 20 km until they run out). This resulted in nerfing them because WG didn't like the doing massive damage while never being in danger to be spotted. The shima deserved the nerf back then, but it was applied to all IJN DDs. Then they got powercreeped by things like radar, HAS and PA DDs (which are ridiculous as those contradict what WG was using as a reason to nerf IJN back then).

 

I always played the IJN DDs for what they were advertised for. The stealth torpedo game. I was a fan of the first hour and Shima was also my first ever Tier X.

Then after the nerfs hit i learned that i should've grinded the USN line as those were the ones more close to that gameplay now. I felt kind of shafted.

Then the PA DDs happened.......

[Ze_Reckless]

14 hours ago, Excavatus said:

But I prefer IJN DDs for one and only reason.. concealment, ...

My only concern is, from what I've read from the forum.. I dont want to get dissappointed when I get my shima!

I'm sorry I have to disappoint you:

 

Ship	Concealment
Shima	5.9
Gearing	5.9
Yueyang	5.8
Fletcher, Benson	5.8

The Yueyang is at the moment the best tier 10 torpedo boat, the only downside is it can't torpedo-hit DDs. Shima is still fun to play though it's advisable to get RPF asap. You want to be prepared before you run into one of those gunboats.

 

The bad Shima concealment is the reason why I kept my Yugumo, these two have a different play style (and I enjoy both of them).

[Skyllon]

Something more to be done about IJN DDs? Well... WG can still nerf them.

[Excavatus]

15 hours ago, Miessa3 said:

The Shima is still a beast.

 

Then the PA DDs happened.......

 

 

Ok, it is too early on a work day, and I am still sleeping..

Will it be too much to ask "What the hell is about with PA DDs?"

I've never looked into them..

I have a vague idea about them.. I know some of them can have radar.. but I think I am almost completely ignorant about them :)

[Zen71_sniper]

1 hour ago, Excavatus said:

 

 

Ok, it is too early on a work day, and I am still sleeping..

Will it be too much to ask "What the hell is about with PA DDs?"

I've never looked into them..

I have a vague idea about them.. I know some of them can have radar.. but I think I am almost completely ignorant about them :)

Nothing much to know, it is a gimmicky BS tech tree, vaguely grounded in reality, made to please the vast Chinese segment of the market. 

 

But if you insist, it has super low detectability Deep Water Torpedos (DWT) which can not hit DDs. Great concealment and usually great guns. 

[Profilus]

1 hour ago, Excavatus said:

 

 

Ok, it is too early on a work day, and I am still sleeping..

Will it be too much to ask "What the hell is about with PA DDs?"

I've never looked into them..

I have a vague idea about them.. I know some of them can have radar.. but I think I am almost completely ignorant about them :)

Torp detection range that allows hitting cruisers as reliably as BB-s. For me at least.