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TigerMoth

Akizuki 'gunboat'

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I stopped playing for a while, so excuse my ignorance if this topic has been covered, but the Akizuki guns are terrible. Were they always this bad? Given it only has 1 set of torpedo tubes and a high rate of fire I assume I am supposed to play it like a gunboat?

I had been spamming HE at a few ships for half a game and looked to see how much damage I had done. I was shocked to see I had only done 4k of damage. I was like, WTF? Is the counter broken. Next game the same.  It seems the only time I get good damage is when I set fires, and with the fire chance being so low, those are few and far between.

 

I only have a 12 point captain, but I don't see how any amount of skills are going to make up for those terrible guns against anything other than another DD.

 

 

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pro tip: try it with IFHE. Knowing how the game works (HE pen mechanics in this case) helps sometimes...

/thread

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7 minutes ago, Tyrendian89 said:

pro tip: try it with IFHE. Knowing how the game works (HE pen mechanics in this case) helps sometimes...

/thread

Ahh, OK. I thought IFHE was only good for higher calibre guns.

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3 minutes ago, TigerMoth said:

Ahh, OK. I thought IFHE was only good for higher calibre guns.

 

Quite the opposite actually.:Smile_Default:

Also, Akizuki AP in the right place can be very devastating. For more help, on "how to Akizuki" ill leave you this link, since I cant comment that much on the playstyle myself.

 

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4 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

Quite the opposite actually.:Smile_Default:

Also, Akizuki AP in the right place can be very devastating. For more help, on "how to Akizuki" ill leave you this link, since I cant comment that much on the playstyle myself.

 

 

I shall add IFHE when I get the required free commander points and see how it differs. Flamu is certainly saying everything I have found out about it, including that without IFHE it is pretty much nothing but a DD hunter.

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OK, bit the bullet and used gold to reset the 12 points and changed Concealment Expert for IFHE and it makes an amazing difference, so thanks for the help.

 

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24 minutes ago, TigerMoth said:

I shall add IFHE when I get the required free commander points and see how it differs. Flamu is certainly saying everything I have found out about it, including that without IFHE it is pretty much nothing but a DD hunter.

In fact, without IFHE Akizuki isn't a good DD hunter either - she can't pen equal-tier DD hulls with HE, so while she can hunt lower tiers, against her peers and higher tier DDs she relies on AP - and that can be easily defeated by angling.

Basically, Akizuki is a bit special in that she has more "skillpoint tax" skills than most ships - to the point where IHFE might be actually more crucial than Concealment Expert, despite the fact that she DOES rely on concealment quite a bit. With necessary skills and the ability to pick the right ammo on the fly, however, Akizuki becomes enemy DDs worst nightmare - she can literally pick a close-to-mid-range gunfight with a Gearing with reasonable chances of victory*.

 

*"can" doesn't mean "should", because while in straight-up gun duel Akizuki certainly has a shot at winning the fight, she still handles like a brick. A good Gearing player can abuse the difference in handling to take control over the flow of the encounter, disengage successfully if necessary... and is less likely to eat Akizuki's torp than vice versa.

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Akizuki primary ammo are the AP. Only switch HE to penetrate angled DD (and you need IFHE for this)

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1 hour ago, TigerMoth said:

I stopped playing for a while, so excuse my ignorance if this topic has been covered, but the Akizuki guns are terrible. Were they always this bad? Given it only has 1 set of torpedo tubes and a high rate of fire I assume I am supposed to play it like a gunboat?

I had been spamming HE at a few ships for half a game and looked to see how much damage I had done. I was shocked to see I had only done 4k of damage. I was like, WTF? Is the counter broken. Next game the same.  It seems the only time I get good damage is when I set fires, and with the fire chance being so low, those are few and far between.

 

I only have a 12 point captain, but I don't see how any amount of skills are going to make up for those terrible guns against anything other than another DD.

 

 

 

The only thing I can say.

 

You are doing something wrong with it.

Perhaps IFHE? Don't now.

AP it's great.

 

But one thing I Know, DD wise there's only one tougher dd than him and that's Kidd.

When I have to clean the base or the cap of red dds I know that's not going to be as easy as the others when the dds in there are either one of them.

My first AKasuki that I sunk, he didn't get me on fire once. And the end result for me?

The same as if I had gone against a BB.

So, in my opinion you are missing something.

Because personally I treat those two as if they were cruisers.

 

  

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20 minutes ago, eliastion said:

Akizuki becomes enemy DDs worst nightmare

 

And I add.

 

It's not quite a mid summer dream for cruisers either.

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Akizuki would need some love from Wargaming however.

It's too slow, not agile enough, and don't even have DAA when it was build for the purpose of shooting down planes.

It was one of the most modern DD in the IJN and it's sitting at tier 8 with heavy nerfs all around.

 

I find Harekaze better as it has 2 gun less for one torpedo launcher more, and both the concealment and the agility of a Kagero.

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1 hour ago, TigerMoth said:

I stopped playing for a while, so excuse my ignorance if this topic has been covered, but the Akizuki guns are terrible. Were they always this bad? Given it only has 1 set of torpedo tubes and a high rate of fire I assume I am supposed to play it like a gunboat?

I had been spamming HE at a few ships for half a game and looked to see how much damage I had done. I was shocked to see I had only done 4k of damage. I was like, WTF? Is the counter broken. Next game the same.  It seems the only time I get good damage is when I set fires, and with the fire chance being so low, those are few and far between.

 

I only have a 12 point captain, but I don't see how any amount of skills are going to make up for those terrible guns against anything other than another DD.

 

 

The Akizuki wont work untill you have at least a 14 point captain as you need both Camouflage Expert and IFHE, otherwise the guns wont make any useful damage.

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9 minutes ago, Butterdoll said:

 

And I add.

 

It's not quite a mid summer dream for cruisers either.

Well, this is a bit more complicated - Akizuki can hurt cruisers a lot if they show her broadside at close range, but - as tough as she is compared to other DDs - she's still very vulnerable to cruiser HE that not only deal a ton of damage to her but have a nasty habit of disabling her guns.

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28 minutes ago, G01ngToxicCommand0 said:

The Akizuki wont work untill you have at least a 14 point captain as you need both Camouflage Expert and IFHE, otherwise the guns wont make any useful damage.

 

Nah it's still workable without concealment expert. Heck any DD that trys to brawl at close range with an aki will die (well most anyways) with that dpm and arc. Just brawled with a mostly angled NO earlier under 5km and sank him with guns only. In the same match prior to that was a kagero who kept on showing broadside and an angled z23. All of them just died. Most fun guns on a DD so far for me:cap_rambo:

 

Edit: spelling

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9 minutes ago, pra3y said:

 

Nah it's still workable with concealment expert. Heck any DD that trys to brawl at close range with an aki will die (well most anyways) with that dpm and arc. Just brawled with a mostly angled NO earlier under 5km and sank him with guns only. In the same match prior to that was a kagero who kept on showing broadside and an angled z23. All of them just died. Most fun guns on a DD so far for me:cap_rambo:

I agree. Now I have switched my 12 point captain to IFHE she is tons of fun. The ROF is awesome. I need to try the KIDD, I ran into one when I had my guns facing the wrong way and got sent back to port quite quickly.

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24 minutes ago, eliastion said:

Well, this is a bit more complicated - Akizuki can hurt cruisers a lot if they show her broadside at close range, but - as tough as she is compared to other DDs - she's still very vulnerable to cruiser HE that not only deal a ton of damage to her but have a nasty habit of disabling her guns.

 

Yes, I know, I'm not expecting that from a dd.

And it was you that explained  to me with what I was up against, (when I was in the WTF was that? phase) and gave me much need it and appreciated advices.

But either way.

I have to be more on top of my game than ever when facing the both of them than any other kind of dd.

Because those "terrible guns" can truly mess up a cruiser.

Sending to port or worst...

Make him Battle ineffective

 

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5 minutes ago, TigerMoth said:

I agree. Now I have switched my 12 point captain to IFHE she is tons of fun. The ROF is awesome. I need to try the KIDD, I ran into one when I had my guns facing the wrong way and got sent back to port quite quickly.

Nah, its just a fletcher. Gearing would be fun though i feel gun wise. Well you have fun with the Aki =) 

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Akizuki is an insanely good ship, it plays in many ways like a cruiser. Just get used to how it plays, get IFHE, DE and BFT and see all enemies burn before you. You can outgun some Cruisers with Akizuki and in the right position you can shred BBs with Superstructure hits with HE and fire damage. Watch as you turn away a whole enemy push just by flinging 176 shells per minute their way (more if you have AR active). With DE and fire flags you still have 7% fire chance despite running IFHE, you literally vomit fire at this point. With all those guns you also outgun all DDs in the game... YES I MEAN ALL. You can actually 1v1 Gearings and Grozovois without breaking a sweat. Akizuki gets a free torp reload booster so its not like you dont have good torps. 

 

Akizuki is a damage farming monster, HE spam, Fire starting and torpedo spamming makes sure you can farm damage on anything coming your way.

 

Learn to play it, experiment with AP (although just safing with HE is enough since it starts a bizillion fires per minute), zone out enemy teams, win, come back to forum with the news of how you conquered the Americas with a single DD

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Akizuki captain MUST be specced into IFHE due to the pecularities of the HE penetration rules.

 

Her 100mm HE shells only have a regular HE pen of 16mm, meaning they can only damage surfaces armored in 16mm or less plating. even DD hulls at tier VIII have 19mm of armour. With IFHE you can beat that threshold and suddenly the insane rate of fire turns the Akizuki into a DD killer that can out-dpm even hightier DDs like the Gearing.

 

But alas, you need IFHE for that, otherwise your HE will barely ever do damage at all.

 

Don't be afraid of using the AP though, even against DDs. The bigger DDs like say the Gearing for example are wide enough for the AP to arm in the target rather than overpenetrating and the AP dpm is likewise insane. And if you don't have IFHE yet, even AP overpenetrations will do more consistent damage than the HE (though again, every DD can angle against the 100mm AP, but in reality barely any player has the presence of mind for that in a DD brawl).

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Actually Akizuki DPM with AP is better when enemy DDs are broadsiding than HE.

Getting salvoes at 2.5k damage every 3 seconds is downright scary when you're on the receiving end in a Benson.

 

Well, I'm only playing Harekaze, but the guns are the same. And I love smoking at range of a broadsiding BB and stuff him with 2000-2500 AP salvoes every 3 seconds. Not only the score goes up very fast, but they can't heal those damage as easily as fire.

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Akizuki is one of the most powerful DDs afloat.

If you have IFHE and DE it's a monster.

 

That's the catch basically, it needs a high level captain.

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4 hours ago, Butterdoll said:

I have to be more on top of my game than ever when facing the both of them than any other kind of dd.

Yes, this much is true - she certainly has some sharp teeth :cap_rambo:

 

One time I've read someone (can't remember who, unfortunately) saying something like "Akizuki isn't a DD, she's a british cruiser with an identity crisis" :Smile_teethhappy:

 

4 hours ago, Affeks said:

Just get used to how it plays, get IFHE, DE and BFT and see all enemies burn before you.

I personally don't get DE, I must say. Not because it's a bad skill for Akizuki, on the contrary - she's the single DD in the game that gains proportionally the most out of it. Her natural fire% is low, mandatory IFHE lowers it even further... but the number of shells she spits out allows her to still start some fires - and DE increases that a lot. As a result, DE is a great skill for Akizuki, but there's one problem: it's not really all that useful against DDs. And I personally went for a pretty single-minded build eared towards DD-hunting - and I ran out of points that could be used for DE :Smile_child:I still do set some fires - certainly not as many as I could though (and it relies quite a bit on RNGeesus-chan).

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3 hours ago, ShinGetsu said:

Getting salvoes at 2.5k damage every 3 seconds is downright scary when you're on the receiving end in a Benson.

 

Hell, its scary when you are on the receiving end in a RN CL.

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1 hour ago, eliastion said:

Yes, this much is true - she certainly has some sharp teeth :cap_rambo:

 

One time I've read someone (can't remember who, unfortunately) saying something like "Akizuki isn't a DD, she's a british cruiser with an identity crisis" :Smile_teethhappy:

 

I personally don't get DE, I must say. Not because it's a bad skill for Akizuki, on the contrary - she's the single DD in the game that gains proportionally the most out of it. Her natural fire% is low, mandatory IFHE lowers it even further... but the number of shells she spits out allows her to still start some fires - and DE increases that a lot. As a result, DE is a great skill for Akizuki, but there's one problem: it's not really all that useful against DDs. And I personally went for a pretty single-minded build eared towards DD-hunting - and I ran out of points that could be used for DE :Smile_child:I still do set some fires - certainly not as many as I could though (and it relies quite a bit on RNGeesus-chan).

Sure its not good at DD fighting, but tbh AKizuki doesnt need anything more for DD hunting than IFHE tbh, BFT helps but its far from a must.

 

On the other hand DE makes Akizuki a real threat to any BBs and becomes an exponentially higher threat against all the tier 10 BBs she meets in the current MM.

Aki Skipping DE on Aki is such a waste of potential when pressuring cruisers and BBs. Also Its not like Aki can actively hunt DDs due to her slow speed, agility and the fact that she's not the stealthiest of the bunch either... You often rely on enemy DDs to make mistakes and I feel its wrong to spec my ship into relying on enemies being bad more than necessary. On the other hand setting up a defensive position against enemy BBs or cruisers is something you can actively do along the later stages of the battle after most DDs are dead.

 

What you say is true though, if you really tunnel vision on DD hunting then Survivability expert is really good (+13%HP), vigilance or even RPF can work better for you. What I'm trying so say is that you shouldn't underestimate just how much of a threat Akizuki can pose to BBs and even Cruisers.

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5 hours ago, Affeks said:

Aki Skipping DE on Aki is such a waste of potential when pressuring cruisers and BBs. Also Its not like Aki can actively hunt DDs due to her slow speed, agility and the fact that she's not the stealthiest of the bunch either...

I beg to differ. She is tough to quickly dispatch and actually has good stealth - combination of these two factors make her a very proactive DD hunter. The one thing she doesn't do is chasing up fleeing DDs - but then again, that's rarely a good idea in other DD hunter.

 

6 hours ago, Affeks said:

Sure its not good at DD fighting, but tbh AKizuki doesnt need anything more for DD hunting than IFHE tbh, BFT helps but its far from a must.

Akizuki needs a lot other skills than just IHFE if you really want to make her into the bane of DDs, including the higher tier ones. Thing is: when you face an enemy DD, you need to survive return fire, survive enemy support fire and deal as much damage as fast as possible - because aforementioned support fire becomes more dense the longer you remain in the engagement. The list of skills you want to have to increase this focused performance is pretty long:

 - IFHE is an absolute must (4 points)

 - the DD necessities of CE and LS also apply (we're at 10 points already)

 - BFT gives a noticeable DPS boost (13 points)

 - SE is a big boost to sorvivability of any DD that expects to be under fire (and you do expect that) (16 points)

 - AR improves your DPS in tough DD fights (against things like the Gearing) and it makes you more effective late game (when you're low on hp but still afloat, happens a lot if you start by picking some fights against enemy DDs in the first half of the battle) (18 points)

In the end (well, technically at the beginning, but you know what I mean), you can't even have both Priority Target (to aid decision making in the fight) and Preventive Maintenance (to reduce the number of guns and other modules you lose) - you need to choose which one is more important to you.

 

The only skills that are somewhat optional and could be swapped for DE are

 - BFT (but you lose a chunk of your DPM, meaning less damage to enemy that tries to run or stealth up OR longer engagement and more incoming support fire)

 - SE (significantly reducing your survivability)

 - AR (again, big DPM loss and in fact only gives you back 2 points, so not enough for DE anyway)

 

So, sure, you CAN pick DE and it won't be a bad choice but it's a choice that trades your specialized flavor for more general-purpose usefulness. You don't need, say, BFT to be dangerous to enemy DDs and you have the hp pool to still be relatively tanky (for a DD) even without the SE. Still, there are so many ships in the game that can set BBs on fire - and Akizuki is the only one that can melt DDs like she does. So I personally prefer to capitalize on this strength of hers - and that means taking SE and squeezing every last bit of DPM I can from her, even if she won't light as many fires as she could as a result.:cap_rambo:

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