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cro_pwr

RDF/RPF/RL - Lets talk about it once again?

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So, lets get back to one of the most controversial skills ever involved into WoWS, and WGs decision to leave it in the game, although A LOT of playerbase specifically said they don't want that abomination in the game.

First things first, for those who don't remember, when the skill was introduced, there was a huge uproar on the forums / reddit / whatever, and (IMO) for a good reason. People tought that it will be a last nail in the coffin for any attempt of sneaky play, ambushing your opponent, popping out from where he doesn't expect you, doing some weird thing alltogether etc. And sadly, it was. IF someone chooses to use it that is.
Now, whats the biggest problem with the skill? As people allready stated, its a form of built in wallhack, so you cannot play hide and seek anymore, because you are (more or less) always detected in one form if your hunter or your target has RPF.

 

 

So, lets jump to the second part of the story.
After all the initial uproar, WG in all their glory came and said, "don't worry, everythings fine", although as I said A LOT of people once again didn't belive them. And in their infinite wisdom, they released the skill as it is, completely disregarding a metric ton of videos showing them how that skill can be easily abused to blind torp, to hunt down dds, to prepare yourself for people ambushing you etc. But who cares what people say, right, and there we have it, RPF is in the game.


Then comes the third part, and somewhat more recent one.

After people were still complaining about the skill, and it was in the game for some time, WG once again came to extinguish the fire (by pouring gasoline ofc, how else), and shared they wisdom and sekret stats with us regular plebs.
Long story short, they have decided that skill is fine, and doesn't need any changes. Reasons? "Well, in our infinite wisdom we checked our sekret stats and found out there isn't that much people that are using that skill, so its fine."
So, if there is not enough people abusing something broken, then it means its not broken right? RIGHT? No, not really, but hey, lets pretend thats the case.


Now for the fourth and final part, and the main reason for this topic ( that was just lenghty intro):
Since CB finished just some time ago, Christmas, NY and everything is over, lets get back to this thing.
WG said its fine because not a lot of people are using it (they have stats about it). Now, can you share that wisdom with us once again, and tell us how much teams from lets say top 20 clans had one or multiple ships with RPF included?
There is no way in hell someone can once again tell me its perfectly fine skill, when it was MANDATORY for any higher level gameplay. Even if you were not part of CBs yourself, you had numerous streams / vids etc showing that top teams had RPF on ALMOST EVERY ship they had in the game.

We played CBs, we got to league 1 in Typhoon ( or whatever the name was for 1/1) and we had RPF in every team that played CBs.
So WG, now check the stats again (if you can), check the amount of teams using RPF in higher lvl competitive gameplay, and consider if it is just a tad, just a little bit on a strong part when every team considers that its mandatory to have it on multiple ships.

 

 

@Kandly  @MrConway  Could you be so kind to share the insight of that stats with us, and to give us some more info

 

tl;dr version: read only after bolded part

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[AAO]
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4 minutes ago, cro_pwr said:

tl;dr version:

If you even would get a reaction, which I doubt severely, it might be like "yea but this season there were no carriers so a lot of cruisers could easily spec rpf, will not be that easy when carriers will be a part"

 

Which would make that data invalid atm.

 

 

But you are right of course, the "skill" is a pos.

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[SICK]
Weekend Tester
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I'll repeating what I said during a previous season: used RPF on a Fiji, managed to tell the team where the enemy DD was headed, it was promptly hunted down, then it was a GG.


It can be rare, it doesn't make it any less broken.

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Beta Tester
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As a predominately Destroyer player, its a must have skill. Knowing were your enemy is approaching from gives the opportunity to get all guns and torpedoes onto the right bearing. When contesting a cap, knowing the direction that the enemy is moving means firing pre-emptively, which get the occasional hit, or spooks and panics the enemy. I feel naked without it. 

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The skill is just stupid. I've stealth torped quite a few ships I had no business knowing were there and I've won games because of it. RPF can make the final moments of a game really stupid. And of course in CW it was basically mandatory for as many ships as you can get.

 

The question isn't even if the skill is powerful or not, the real problem is the way RPF makes the game more stupid. There are a number of ways to figure out where ships are - and that is a really exciting part of the game - even without "skills" that reduce skill and excitement in the game. 

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[OCTO]
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Without a further ado, it is pretty much mandatory on all DDs (except RU), specifically on IJN DDs, as without it your chance of surviving while capping are quite low.

 

I am personally VERY much against it, but while it is in game, I am using it - as a DD main, my chances of winning are much less without it.

 

I would like to see it removes, with other wallhack skills, for example PT....

 

 

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Well, cant talk about CB, since i didnt play that.

But for Randoms i dont really care. Somtimes im RPF located, sometimes not. If i am located, i know that usually a DD is near. Just have to look at your teammates, and u know where the RPF must come from.

I use it on Fiji and Takao tho. Takao can use that for torps (works awesome) and Fiji it helps when u want to support your DDs. Then u know whats gonna happen when u go for the cap. Or when u are in smoke and suddenly it points somewhere else.

For Edin/Neptune i didnt use it, because of the more campy hightier meta, i dont think its that useful there.

 

Also: Its funny when u realize a BB is having that skill :cap_haloween:

 

Oh one more thing: Its not like RPF torping is 0 skill...

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I don't use it on my ships - but when the enemy does and I'm RPF'd, I know what to expect when approaching a cap with my DD. Works both ways - I don't know exactly from which direction he'll be approaching but at the start of the match I can make some educated guesses and had good success blind torping.

Later in the game RPF can be more of an advantage imo. In random battles it's of no concern to me.

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Well, I get the point that the skill maybe is bronken and can be abused but to this day I haven't even picked RPF even once.

 

Sacrificing four points for something you don't need anyways isn't even worth to give it the thought. There's few ships that have those huge 4 points to spare to fit RPF in the build without shooting yourself on the feet sacrificing anything else way more important.

 

Edit: And OPs argument that RPF was seen 24/7 in CB it's kind of questionable. That's not because RPF is more used than WG says, but that CVs weren't allowed in CB so you could throw a lot of points that would probably went in a regular AA build and put them in RPF because of the ton of spare captain points since you didn't need to care about AA at all.

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16 minutes ago, SHDRKN4792 said:

Well, I get the point that the skill maybe is bronken and can be abused but to this day I haven't even picked RPF even once.

 

Sacrificing four points for something you don't need anyways isn't even worth to give it the thought. There's few ships that have those huge 4 points to spare to fit RPF in the build without shooting yourself on the feet sacrificing anything else way more important.

The thing is only ONE player going for the skill is enough to ruin your day trying to flank (or cap near the enemy fleet for that matter). What are the chances to have one ship in the lineup that can spare those 4 points? (like any BB osessed with killing DDs)

Even if it is to costly for you. The chances are high it isn't in the mind of any of the other 11 (or 6 for ranked/CB) players.

 

On Topic:

Nothing changed.

This skill is still as broken as on the first day it saw the light of the day. I am using it as DD main because it is giving such a good edge in a number of DDs but I won't cry if it were finaly removed.

Good Ridance that would be.

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[EIRE]
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It wasn't game breaking as predicted by many, but I agree it does spoil DD gameplay for me. Would be in favour of removal.

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Beta Tester
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I have that skill on some US/RU DDs and some cruisers...

My IJN DDs work quite well without it, and those cruisers not dedicated to DD hunting, too.

 

Seeing someone on the enemy team has the skill doesn't cause me to panic when I'm in a DD, as not really many people in random battles know how to use it. Always funny to pull some "hunter" to a flank, where he gets obliterated by the ships he doesn't "see" with his "magic eye".

 

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[OSC]
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Considering CV in our out of the game.
I don't really think that inclusion of CV in the game makes that skill any weaker. Exactly the opposite, its a force multiplier.
With a CV in the game you can just ping on the map where do you KNOW the enemy DD is, and ask your CV to provide spotting for you.
And believe me, finding a DD with 2 km air spotting range aint that easy (sometimes) when you are playing CV and you have no idea where to look for.

 

And removal of CVs from CBs did allow for few skill points to be put somewhere else, then into AA spec. But in a games where you faced 5 HE spamming cruisers, you wanted fire prevention on everything, yet a lot of people went for RPF, which once more shows just how strong that skill really is.

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It's a massive game changing mechanic when used in any competitive mode such as clan wars and ranked battles. It really is as simple as that. WG are delusional in thinking it isn't, but their motivations are not based on reason, rational thought or fairplay. WG have screwed the pooch here. This mechanic has NO PLACE in competitive gameplay, no place at all. It's goes the same with the other 'rare' thing called detonations.

 

I cannot tell you how many times I have hunted down dd's turning the tide of battle, in ranked. too many to remember. I can tell you I have lost ranked battles due to detonations, even if rare, it indirectly resulted in lost battles with one ship down and a disadvantage. That lost battle could have spelled a long road to recovery to get back where I had been in ranked...every battle counts in ranked...every single battle, and one lost due to stupid braindead mechanics is a sad case indeed. I have numerous reasons for not wanting to do ranked battles competitively anymore, rpf is a stronger reason along with the stress and others. It's not a fair or level playing field, and it should be.

 

Both RDF and detonations in competitive play makes a laughing stock of WG, since neither of these relate to skill, strategy or tactics, which are fundamental to competitive play. We all pretty much know WG are lying on this one or playing it down rather largely because they have another reason for the implementation of these fail mechanics. Speed the gameplay up here and there? Shorten the games? 20 minutes too long for them? They want a higher turnover of battles, more credits spent, more money coming in indirectly?

 

When I get detonated or see a detonation or rpf being used in ranked battles it makes me mad, and I know I have to use it to give my team every advantage I can. WG need to take their head out their bums here...but they never will because WG does as WG does...even if the reasons are utter trash.

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[CAIN]
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Not many using it? they should play a couple of games in ranked.

In randoms it's in every other game, the worst part is, that seal clubbers use it in their lower tier ships to pad the stats. 

 

I wouldn't mind at all if it would get removed.

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in random that skill isnt game breaking... but that is only cause of average potato IQ.

 

but in ranked and CB it is must have skill. only problem now in ranked is that i dont have it cause i only started grinding pan asian dd tree recently (bought loyang for ranked) and only have 17 point captain...  dd-s would easily flank enemy if there wasnt RL ingame.

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Must pick in Ranked, leave it out as a DD then die clueless....

 

It's taken me to 2 Rank 1s so far.

 

Meh in Randoms as most players are potato and predictable anyway.

 

WG should give it free to all DDs, would give everyone 4 free skill points instead of having your hand forced :Smile_hiding:

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Well, as I said I never used the skill, I don't find it even necessarybut if it ruins the games for others I can agree in removing it. I don't even care about the skill to begin with, so why not if it's bad for others?

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8 minutes ago, SHDRKN4792 said:

Well, as I said I never used the skill, I don't find it even necessarybut if it ruins the games for others I can agree in removing it. I don't even care about the skill to begin with, so why not if it's bad for others?

 

I can understand when ppl complain about in in Ranked any CBs. But this only shows how wannabe "competetive" those game modes really are.

 U cant:

- Choose your opponent

- Choose maps

- Choose the Tier

- Allow/forbidPremium ships (which are ofc non-existent at T10)

- Allow/forbid certain captain skills

- Allow/forbid certain game mechanics (detonations)

If u play other games, which are competetive, u can choose most game settings to get the desired environment.

 

but back to the quote: Technically other captain skills are ruining the fun for others too. What about PT? Tells u how many ppl are aiming at u. IFA? Tells u someone did shoot u, better evade. Vigilance? ruins the fun for DDs, since its much easier to evade torps, and u dont even know that he has that skill. Which captain skills arent bad for others if we look at it like that?

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Every skill that provides a big deal of meta-information should be reviewed/removed and RL is one of the more critical ones for sure.

 

If I had my way even the now built-in "Situational Awareness" skill should be questioned, as the meta-information provided is massive, especially when playing in a division or even bigger groups (ranked/clan wars).

 

P.S.: As I mostly play random battles I run the skill on a few dedicated DD hunters only, as I simply do not want to telegraph my presence in the more stealth reliant vessels (if worst comes to worst the skill can even get you killed faster). However I do consider it mandatory for any form of organized play.

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Beta Tester
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I agree with those who think that the Radio Location skill should be removed.

 

It makes the game less of a contest of skills, and takes it further into the realm of click-and-play. This, in my opinion, is the wrong way to go. Trying to outguess and outplay your opponent is a vital part of the game. ESP skills such as Radio Location tend to devaluate personal skill and experience, and make in-game tactics redundant.

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I had two interesting games that played around with RPF last night. Both on opposite ends of the spectrum.

 

The first was my 'warm-up' game in Kamikaze. I don't run RPF on my Kamikaze captain.

But the enemy team's KamiR did. He landed one torpedo hit on me by firing in the direction of the indicator and then finished me off with his guns. I was the first ship sunk.

Which pissed me off, as my Kamikaze captain was the same one I use for Harekaze for ranked (she's not fully trained, yet), and I just wanted to play some ranked battles last night.

 

By contrast, one of my ranked games in Harekaze:

Start match, Trident map south spawn, one DD per team (me vs Z-23) and I am located. I tell my team "I am located, follow me to A".

I head towards A through the gap in the south and east islands bordering the cap, but about 2km out of the circle I slow down and turn to starboard. Line up all of my guns towards the edge of the eastern island and *bink* Z-23 shows up. I unload on him and quickly sink him.

Game won.

Hilariously, after sinking him I spot his torpedoes sailing by harmlessly about 2km off my port side and into the other island. He REALLY thought he had my number! :cap_haloween:

 

So, basically RPF can be used both ways, because you can predict what the enemy is about to do as much as they can see where you are.

BUT

If WG put it up to a player vote, I would vote to remove it.

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[SPUDS]
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Everything was said before the skill got introduced. You can literally copypasta all old threads from back then. WG still implemented it... Why would they change it now, when they think its fine. The situation didnt changed at all. 

(I would be happy when they remove it, but this isnt happening)

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