How do I counter a Saipan ? [Solved]

[K4dy]

Hello fellow players,

 

The support team has sent me in this direction after my last ticket reply.

My question still stands and I was hoping that maybe there is somebody out there who can help me out here.

I will be cheap here and just re-use my support ticket:

 

I can certainly understand that it is impossible to predict how a game plays out, so I decided to focus my question on a pure mechanics question.
Let's say I am playing a Hiryu and the enemy team has a Saipan with the "Air Supremacy" captain perk and the three fighter squadrons deck layout.
The game starts as usual and let's pretend there are equally skilled and strong ships in both teams and they spread out into all directions so you can always send your planes over friendly ships.
Let's also pretend that I lure the Saipans fighters into friendly AA range and then fighter lock all three of his squadrons. Here is where I dont know how to beat him because:
The saipan can straferun away from my planes without loosing any of his planes while doing so and therefore, getting the fight back on his terms. And since he has ridiculous ammo due to Tier 9 planes he can strafe like 10 times before having to rearm. In the meantime, I can't drop a ship without loosing all my planes since the Saipan can catch my attack planes, take them apart and when my fighters arrive he can just strafe away again. So it is a constant cat and mouse and demolishing my planes until I either run out or the game is lost and no damage is done. In such a situation, what do I do ?

 

 

Flamu explains this, too.
So either Ranger or Hiryu (And Kaga, I musst add) is cought by this situation and no wiki or video explains how to use your advantages againt a Saipan due to them focusing on the "in general" picture.
I hope you can understand where I am going with this and can not wait for a solution.
I mean... there has to be a mechanic in the game that I can use here. Otherwise this Sub-category is pointless ?!?

Thank you for any insights and technical replies,

-K4dy

 

That is it from my side. Many thanks to you guys for any answers you are able to provide! :)

 

 

 

 

[Lieut_Gruber]

What i usualy do: present him 1 fighter squadron, wait until he attacks it with all 3, then strafe the whole bunch. If you meet a smarter one, remember he has only 1 somber sqr,  so you don't need that much damage done to outbalance him.

[ColonelPete]

As you said

• Use teams AA
• Use feints
• Multitask better than him (do multiple stuff in a short time on different positions)

[kfa]

I have both T7 premium carriers but i usually play Kaga because it is much more fun the oneshot things than fly around with fighters.

- you can lure him with 1 fighter and/or 1 DB squad on one side of the map, then strike on the other (if you do 2 successful strikes per game against a Saipan you are almost guaranteed to beat his performance)

- strike him out. Kaga, Hiryuu both can take the Saipan out in one run

- stay in friendly AA with your fighters until he loses patience and makes a mistake - strike afterwards

- go for easy targets, mostly lonely destroyers, the Saipan cant cover the whole map with 2 fighters

 

but all things aside the Saipan is stupidly strong and much more capable to win games than any other T7 carrier - too bad the gamestyle is boring for me

 

[RUSSIANBlAS]

A Ranger is probably GG but that's just WG's balance department working as normal.

 

In a Hiryu or Kaga maybe play defensive and go after Saipan's 2xTBs. If you can frustrate his TBs then it doesn't matter if he has air control as he will be doing low damage. Husband your fighters well enough and the Saipan may even run out of his own, then the fun starts.

 

The above is easier said than done however, learn advanced strafing stuff. This guy can help https://www.youtube.com/user/farazelleth/ he has good information however he is "very" long winded in his approach and could probably teach the same content in 25% of the time. Sorry if you're reading this Fara, you're awesome really!! 

 

Although if you are vs an AS Saipan then you are royally screwed if the guy is good as he will have come to nom planes and won't care about bombing anyone.

 

 

[Bmsrt]

Let me play the Saipan and it counters itself automaticly!

[deadly_if_swallowed]

You don't counter Saipan. Saipan counters you :P

[Marblehead_1]

Always check your opponent on one of pages devoted to statisticks too. You will be play quiet diffrent when your enemy will be 44% noob ( which didnt know alt-attack and only tactic which he knews is click and forget ) and diffrent when your enemy will be 95% WR pr0, who can do 20 diffrent things simulaneusly.

[Marblehead_1]

To delete.

[RUSSIANBlAS]

8 minutes ago, Marblehead_1 said:

Always check your opponent on one of pages devoted to statisticks too. You will be play quiet diffrent when your enemy will be 44% noob ( which didnt know alt-attack and only tactic which he knews is click and forget ) and diffrent when your enemy will be 95% WR pr0, who can do 20 diffrent things simulaneusly.

I used to do that but now I just play and see how the first engagement goes.

That gives a better idea than any stats IMO. 

[pra3y]

32 minutes ago, Negativvv said:

I used to do that but now I just play and see how the first engagement goes.

That gives a better idea than any stats IMO. 

 

Spoiler

Well between child and Steve I guess Steve will be better 

 

[El2aZeR]

Try to counterstrafe. Will probably fail a couple of times because lol UI but it does wipe out the offending fighter when it works.

 

Other than that, not much you can do.

[ShinGetsu]

First off :

Usually, 2-2 Saipan are more dangerous than 3-1. Because the huge majority of 3-1 Saipan are sailed by dumbasses. They are easy to bait into friendly AA, and as long as you managed one or two good straff with your Hiryuu, you seriously damaged his reserves of fighters and he won't be able to dominate you.

Now, a good player with 2-2 will be horrible to deal with on the other hand.

 

I'm not talking about skilled 3-1 players because :

 

1- They are very rare

2- You're screwed

 

Basically they just can deny you most of the strikes. However they lack the tools to seriously carry their team (those 9 bombers takes forever to reload, and the result of each drop is RNG, while  2-2 can just nuke all the DDs) so good players usually don't use it.

In the worst case, you would see a good player in 3-1 setup around 1 or 2 times out of 100 battles.

 

2-2 is more manageable, but they are scary because they can bully all your friendly DD very quickly, so make sure you cover them. Hiryuu is probably the best Cv against a Saipan anyway. Try to bait his fighters in friendly AA or after your DB (in the worst case, drop the bomb and use them for spotting DD, that would force the Saipan player to go after them) and go strike with your TB, while your fighters either try to trap the Saipan fighters or to destroy the Saipan's TB.

 

Saipan have low reserves anyway. Each plane you shot down is a huge loss for him. As El2aZeR said, try to straff and counterstraff in any case.

[K4dy]

So to summon this up:

 

If the Saipan is running the fighter loadout and knows what he is doing you don't stand a chance.

All you can try is to deal more dmg to ships than the Saipan can or get a lucky strafe run.

If he knows what he is doing he can always have the advantage in a figher fight since he can strafe out without loosing a plane.

 

Thus my conclusion:

 

Bite on a stick, get yourself many napkins and cry yourself through Tier 7 with a lot of luck.

OR

Use free XP and get to tier 8.

 

I have learned a thing or two and will definetly try them out in the next battles so thank you guys!

 

(Big thanks to ShinGetsu for the funny and actually helpful comment!)

 

 

[Hybria]

T8 is cancer tier seeing T10 every match without good enough planes (no hp module) and not enough reserves to make it really work.

Play T7 (its okay, good saipans are rare, T9 is more rare than t10 with a t8 cv) or play Midway.

 

Everything beetween Kaga and Midway is no fun at all because of MM (if you like the ship, thaio is okay ... but why play t10 every match and not run t10 yourself?)

 

Oh and buy a Kaga ... thats the most fun CV in the game.

[deadly_if_swallowed]

Bleed Saipan dry, plane by plane. Save your bombers for late game. Empty dive bomber squads are great scouts though so you can rack up some spotting dmg.

 

Even though Shokaku has the same flight decks as Hiryu, I highly recommend you get used to them while at T7 so you can still shine at T8 while going against the struggles of T10 MM. You will love your new torpedo bombers but you first  have to learn to hate them :P

[triumphgt6]

Division with an aa specced Atlanta - that will really annoy him! Had one Saipan getting very salty as he tried to kill me!

[veslingr]

1 hour ago, Wings_of_RNGesus said:

T8 is cancer tier seeing T10 every match without good enough planes (no hp module) and not enough reserves to make it really work.

Play T7 (its okay, good saipans are rare, T9 is more rare than t10 with a t8 cv) or play Midway.

 

Everything beetween Kaga and Midway is no fun at all because of MM (if you like the ship, thaio is okay ... but why play t10 every match and not run t10 yourself?)

 

Oh and buy a Kaga ... thats the most fun CV in the game.

Ohohou taiho is one of strongest if not the strongest ship tier per tier

[ColonelPete]

2 hours ago, K4dy said:

So to summon this up:

 

If the Saipan is running the fighter loadout and knows what he is doing you don't stand a chance.

All you can try is to deal more dmg to ships than the Saipan can or get a lucky strafe run.

If he knows what he is doing he can always have the advantage in a figher fight since he can strafe out without loosing a plane.

 

Thus my conclusion:

 

Bite on a stick, get yourself many napkins and cry yourself through Tier 7 with a lot of luck.

OR

Use free XP and get to tier 8.

 

I have learned a thing or two and will definetly try them out in the next battles so thank you guys!

 

(Big thanks to ShinGetsu for the funny and actually helpful comment!)

 

 

Yoy ignored the fact that many saipan players are bad and your options for counter stategies...

[K4dy]

4 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

Yoy ignored the fact that many saipan players are bad and your options for counter stategies...

I did not forget the options for counters but there are ENOUGH good saipan players for me to create this.

[ColonelPete]

You are giving up?

[Skiie]

13 hours ago, ShinGetsu said:

First off :

Usually, 2-2 Saipan are more dangerous than 3-1. Because the huge majority of 3-1 Saipan are sailed by dumbasses. They are easy to bait into friendly AA, and as long as you managed one or two good straff with your Hiryuu, you seriously damaged his reserves of fighters and he won't be able to dominate you.

Now, a good player with 2-2 will be horrible to deal with on the other hand.

 

I'm not talking about skilled 3-1 players because :

 

1- They are very rare

2- You're screwed

 

Basically they just can deny you most of the strikes. However they lack the tools to seriously carry their team (those 9 bombers takes forever to reload, and the result of each drop is RNG, while  2-2 can just nuke all the DDs) so good players usually don't use it.

In the worst case, you would see a good player in 3-1 setup around 1 or 2 times out of 100 battles.

 

2-2 is more manageable, but they are scary because they can bully all your friendly DD very quickly, so make sure you cover them. Hiryuu is probably the best Cv against a Saipan anyway. Try to bait his fighters in friendly AA or after your DB (in the worst case, drop the bomb and use them for spotting DD, that would force the Saipan player to go after them) and go strike with your TB, while your fighters either try to trap the Saipan fighters or to destroy the Saipan's TB.

 

Saipan have low reserves anyway. Each plane you shot down is a huge loss for him. As El2aZeR said, try to straff and counterstraff in any case.

I played a ranger game against a fairly good AS saipan recently. Just couldn't do that much even with Atlanta div. It's just pure filth. I am not the greatest CV players, but not the worst one. I could instantly see that he was a pretty good player. Don't remember his name tho..

[Seeigel]

The problem with the Saipan comes not from her to strafe-out without losses but to ALSO have the fastest planes (at her level).

Everything on his own wouldnt be too bad, combined its OP.

 

Strafing out without losses would be better for a Kaga-style CV (with that, I mean a CV with downtiered planes) because its your only option to fight on your terms.

 

So in general you could say, a good option would be:

- higher tier planes --> faster (advantage on his own)

- lower tier planes --> strafing out without losses

 

So far a little bit theory from me for CV balancing.

 

But dont ask me how to counter a good Saipan...

[ShinGetsu]

48 minutes ago, Skiie said:

I played a ranger game against a fairly good AS saipan recently. Just couldn't do that much even with Atlanta div. It's just pure filth. I am not the greatest CV players, but not the worst one. I could instantly see that he was a pretty good player. Don't remember his name tho..

Yeah, but as I said, that's one case out of 100 battle usually. Most of them are terrible players, and you don't see Saipan at each battle either.

 

Last time I played my Saipan, I fought a dumbass 3-1 that hugged his DB with his fighters and did nothing else (he simply clicked the DB to make the fighters cover them automatically). When the DB went to reload the fighters simply followed.

I did a straff on him at one point and wiped out all of them in one go.^^

 

On the other hand, last time I fought a 2-2 Saipan was in Kaga, and he was fairly good. We denied each other strikes by covering our whole team with our fighters both camping over friendly AA, spotting a bit ahead to warn allies of torps. We only both managed to strike in late game.

 

I'm not a pro CV player either. I consider myself decent enough. I kind of sucks at straffing and counter straffing (the UI drives me mad), but I'm good enough to gives trouble to a better player. Kaga is a great CV to get better.

[Mr_Snoww]

They do need to do something with Saipan (I know they won't) but it's strafe out without losing a plane mechanic is the equivalent to putting in a tier 4 cv that can strafe and manual drop whilst the others cant.