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jako737

Something useful for Clans

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Hello everyone and the best whishes for 2018.

I know this has been debated at some point but i did not find a specific topic through the search function.

 

Lately i've repeatedly had the situation where my clanmates were in need of in-game resources of which i was full (not dobloons, i'm talking to "non real-money in game goodies") and i whish i could have helped them out giving them , ie, some of my credits.

 

I think such a "sharing" function should be at the very "base" of a clan....what you guys think? Shall we push it to wargaming?

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WG have said many times that they wouldn't do this type of thing as it's open to abuse...

for example clans could sell places in teams doing well in clan battles,

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There are a couple problems with this idea. And the most important is:

What you perceive as the reason why it should be implemented is also the very reason why it can't be. WoWs has no late-game economy. If you have some premium ships and/or run premium account, you will be swimming in credits. In fact, even without these "helpers", just by playing your favourite ships instead of grinding new lines, you have a good chance to reach a point where you have more credits than you know what to do with. With that simple realization, it's impossible to let people transfer credits to other people, because that would screw up the whole credits economy of the game - most experienced players could put millions upon millions of credits into team stash, leading to a situation where nobody in a clan with reasonable proportion of veterans would even think about credits as a resource that they could run out of - it would be like having high level dedicated credit farmers, only the "farmers" wouldn't actually need to do anything other than get rid of some of their superfluous resources from time to time.

To allow credit transfers between players, you'd need to start with complete overhaul of the economy - with this exact intention. The game would need some more ways to use your credits. There would need to be some sort of marketplace where certain in-game resources could be traded between players. You'd also need to meddle with the way credits are earned, so that bot-farming them wouldn't be as easy as it is currently. Basically, you'd need to introduce a whole new layer to the game - a challenge most MMORPGs face... and often fail to rise up to. When you jut have individual players that accumulate their individual resources, it's easy to balance this - and even when you fail to balance some things (like late game income and expenses), the impact is pretty small. Designing an economy that allows for trade between players is on a completely different level, both when it comes to difficulty and the consequences of failure.

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To be fair there is actually no economy in the game, at least not in the traditional sense like MMO's.

There are no tradable items, there is no measure of "value" and silver is only used to buy and upgrade ships and consumables that are static on the account.

 

It's true that the reason WG would probably not consider any type of Clan Bank is the risk of customer service tickets because of people in poorly run Clans messing about, but it's a shame as it would be a nice facility to have for responsible clans.

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2 hours ago, BeauNidl3 said:

To be fair there is actually no economy in the game, at least not in the traditional sense like MMO's.

There are no tradable items, there is no measure of "value" and silver is only used to buy and upgrade ships and consumables that are static on the account.

(...)

Why would MMOs (and probably you're mostly thinking MMORPGs, right?) be the setters of what's "traditional sense"? If a game has some obtainable resources that ca be exchanged for in-game goodies and power-ups - it's that game's economy. Even if it's so simplified that all you get is experience that lets you level-up - it's still an economy that needs to be balanced to control how fast the player can advance so that the game doesn't become too easy or the grind too off-putting. The challenges of balancing the economy of a computer game are older than Internet gaming...

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Just now, eliastion said:

Why would MMOs (and probably you're mostly thinking MMORPGs, right?) be the setters of what's "traditional sense"? If a game has some obtainable resources that ca be exchanged for in-game goodies and power-ups - it's that game's economy. Even if it's so simplified that all you get is experience that lets you level-up - it's still an economy that needs to be balanced to control how fast the player can advance so that the game doesn't become too easy or the grind too off-putting. The challenges of balancing the economy of a computer game are older than Internet gaming...

 

Well for a couple of reasons.

 

1. MMO's have been around for in excess of a decade, in fact nearer 2 decades, the time frame tends to dictate the word traditional - Economies in those games involve items tradable between accounts with measures of value and inflation  which change with the volume of currency (also tradable) in the game which increases over time.

2. WoWs has no tradable items or currency so any concept of economy which is totally reliant on trade is meaningless

 

Using experience and grind as a measure of economy is stretching the word way beyond the breaking limit of the term. As to rate of levelling up, the silver isn't a major factor, in fact it's fairly trivial compared to ship exp and Free XP.

Economy of the game (in terms of silver which is what this thread is about) is unlikely to be a major worry to WG, Customer Service tickets in the event of Clan Banks however could be of concern to them.

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2 minutes ago, BeauNidl3 said:

1. MMO's have been around for in excess of a decade, in fact nearer 2 decades, the time frame tends to dictate the word traditional

Other types of games have been around longer...

3 minutes ago, BeauNidl3 said:

Economies in those games involve items tradable between accounts with measures of value and inflation  which change with the volume of currency (also tradable) in the game which increases over time.

...and don't do that. So, going by that logic, the traditional approach to game economy should be the one that does NOT include trading between players.

 

7 minutes ago, BeauNidl3 said:

2. WoWs has no tradable items or currency so any concept of economy which is totally reliant on trade is meaningless

No, this is completely ridiculous. You're mixing up game economy (the part of game design that deals with rewards and their use) and in-game trading between players (one of possible elements of game economy).

 

11 minutes ago, BeauNidl3 said:

Using experience and grind as a measure of economy is stretching the word way beyond the breaking limit of the term. As to rate of levelling up, the silver isn't a major factor, in fact it's fairly trivial compared to ship exp and Free XP.

For many, especially experienced, players? Sure. But there are players who are

 - short on cash to buy a researched ship

 - short on cash to afford all the premium consumables they'd like to use

 - short on cash to play t10 as much as they'd like

 - playing credit-printing ships to alleviate one or more of the above (why would Missouri be hailed for her earnings if credits were irrelevant?)

 

The fact that there is no shortage of players for whom credits are non-issue doesn't mean that we're lacking those who actually struggle with credit reserves.

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7 hours ago, BeauNidl3 said:

As to rate of levelling up, the silver isn't a major factor, in fact it's fairly trivial compared to ship exp and Free XP.

Speak for yourself. With the amount of camo and flags I can easily do games that give me 5-10k xp. Similarly with a different set of flags/camo I can fo 3-6k free xp per game.

Add that to the free xp that WG keep putting in containers and xp is no real problem.

 

However having just bought and equipped the roon completely I now have 3m in the bank. Unfortunately I have also researched and need the credits to buy:

Iowa

Neptune

Chappy

KGV

Shira

 

Plus from halloween I want to re-buy bismark and benson since I have camo for them

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41 minutes ago, Xevious_Red said:

Speak for yourself. With the amount of camo and flags I can easily do games that give me 5-10k xp. Similarly with a different set of flags/camo I can fo 3-6k free xp per game.

Add that to the free xp that WG keep putting in containers and xp is no real problem.

 

However having just bought and equipped the roon completely I now have 3m in the bank. Unfortunately I have also researched and need the credits to buy:

Iowa

Neptune

Chappy

KGV

Shira

 

Plus from halloween I want to re-buy bismark and benson since I have camo for them

And that's why you can't be given free silver from somebody who has too many of it. After you have bought/grinded all ships you will jave so much extra silver that you don't know where to put it, so you give it to next grinder (makes 2 donors in clan) and as a result everybody flies thru tiers and plays tier X only.

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10 minutes ago, Profilus said:

And that's why you can't be given free silver from somebody who has too many of it. (...)

Well, he wasn't really disputing that.

Basically, for credit donations to not break the game economy, you'd need a system where late-game credit income is under control (no ships like Missouri), proper credit sinks exist (special containers purchasable for credits, perhaps) AND there are some REALLY strong measures against botting. Currently WoWs doesn't deliver on any of the three, but as long as credits remain forever on the account that received them in the first place, it doesn't really matter if someone stockpiles enough to buy and equip every single silver ship in the game. Twice. At worst you end up with people who can play t10 forever with all premium consumables - the "too many zeroes to fit in the display" amount of credits is no better than "I have/earn just enough that I don't have to worry about not being able to afford something I want".

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[WGP2W]
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Well guys, 

I appreciate all of your inputs and answers.

 

I would like to point out that i never said "let's make it totally free (in terms of exchangable quantities) and uncontrolled "american subprime mortgage" style.

We could maybe find a workable solution by combining our points/efforts...


I see what you all mean with the debate about having one or two "donators" favouring the rest of the players in the clan, but it could probably go along in such a fashon that it would require an exchange of something from the "gifted" player to make it less "appealing" (as of: not to do it every 20 secs).

 

Cheers

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