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Baby_Jesus

Zero damage penetrations?

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I have seen quite a lot of these lately - hits that show as penetrations but cause 0 damage. I have just had a game in my North Carolina where I got two of these type of hit against an Edinburgh. After 17 penetrating hits only 23097 damage was scored with the 406mm guns. What is the score with this, anyone know?

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[HABIT]
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Penetrating an external module like AA or secondary guns will give you a penetration ribbon but it won't deal damage to the hull of the ship.

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Seems to happen too if you pen the torpedo bulge of a ship but the belt blocks or bounces the shell.

 

Then you also have the other case of overpens dealing more damage than they should, pens doing more damage too. I even dealt once a citadel to a BB that dealt citadel + regular pen damage in just one shell.

 

The way damage is dealt is messed up for quite some time now.

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4 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

At some point also Damage saturation.

 

Of French Cruiser have spaced armor, they "eat" damage...

But not really from BBs. When a british cruiser fires at them, however... there were some hilarious tests.

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43 minutes ago, eliastion said:

But not really from BBs. When a british cruiser fires at them, however... there were some hilarious tests.

 

I think there is a video on YT where a Yamato needs 9 salvoes against a broadside Henri IV to kill it... question is working as intended?

A RN CL... yes probably it can shoot an infinite amount of shells against certain parts and never cause any damage, tried it myself.

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[NED]
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It's for me the absolute most frustrating aspect of this entire game. The Pen without damage. And the "explanations" I've been getting is fueling the frustration even more. You penned a AA module (a machine gun, being hit by a shell the size of a small car), you penetrated a "non vital part" of the ship, you penetrated the torpedo belt, hence doing no dmg at all. I'm frantically trying to wrap my brains around that. I get it: I either miss, bounce, shatter or overpen a target and a penetration doesn't necessarily mean a citadel. But can anyone explain me how a pen doesn't yield damage? Even when hitting a "non vital part" of the ship, FFS I'd deserve the half dmg of an overpenetration??? And hitting that "machine gun" should at least do some damage?? Why don't I see the "AA knocked down" "ribbon" in the process??? My sincere advice is to get rid of this BS in game altogether. "oh, you penetrated the torpedo belt, so why are you whining, Ferry?" Well why do I get an almost guaranteed flooding when I manage to take a torp hit on that so called "torpedo protection belt?" If it can sallow a AP penetration without damage how on Earth can a puny torpedo cause a flood, with full dmg (granted dmg reduced factor) can?

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Thanks for the responses. I have to say I have only recently started to notice these, since the last patch. I think Ferry_25 summed it up nicely - I could understand it if I actually destroyed a module but these are literally zero damage - the ribbon says pen, but nothing else which for a 406mm shell is ludicrous. I was at sub-10km range against a broadside Edinburgh and instead of a devastating strike I got nada, not a single bit of damage.

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[RAGE]
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Dunno if this has been said yet, but I'm pretty sure that you can pen the torpedo-belt of a battleship, but then not pen the belt of the ship itself.

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2 hours ago, Ferry_25 said:

It's for me the absolute most frustrating aspect of this entire game. The Pen without damage. And the "explanations" I've been getting is fueling the frustration even more. You penned a AA module (a machine gun, being hit by a shell the size of a small car), you penetrated a "non vital part" of the ship, you penetrated the torpedo belt, hence doing no dmg at all. I'm frantically trying to wrap my brains around that. I get it: I either miss, bounce, shatter or overpen a target and a penetration doesn't necessarily mean a citadel. But can anyone explain me how a pen doesn't yield damage? Even when hitting a "non vital part" of the ship, FFS I'd deserve the half dmg of an overpenetration??? And hitting that "machine gun" should at least do some damage?? Why don't I see the "AA knocked down" "ribbon" in the process??? My sincere advice is to get rid of this BS in game altogether. "oh, you penetrated the torpedo belt, so why are you whining, Ferry?" Well why do I get an almost guaranteed flooding when I manage to take a torp hit on that so called "torpedo protection belt?" If it can sallow a AP penetration without damage how on Earth can a puny torpedo cause a flood, with full dmg (granted dmg reduced factor) can?

I don't necessarily agree that you "deserve" damage for hitting a ship (although some cases are ridiculous). What frustrates me is not the damage "lost" this way but rather the false reporting of the results. I can take some ships hitting non-crucial parts of the ship for 0 damage - but if there's a distinction like that, I'd want it to be shown as another kind of ribbon - "module hit" or something like that. "Penetration" should be reserved for hits that reach the ship's hp pool.

Same with strange penetrations/overpens where your shell gets through one layer of armor but is stopped by the underlying layer - if the shell doesn't get to enter relevant parts because of the armor, then it's clearly a bounce or a shatter - these are the ribbons that should appear when a shell fails to damage the ship thanks to the plating of the latter. A penetration should mean an effective hit (well, damage saturation could be the exception, but personally I believe even fully saturated parts should still take 10% damage on penetrating hits). Similarly an overpen - it should mean that the shell went clean through the vulnerable parts NOT that it failed to get to them at all...

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34 minutes ago, eliastion said:

(well, damage saturation could be the exception, but personally I believe even fully saturated parts should still take 10% damage on penetrating hits).

 

Yep, definetely. Been saying similiar things aswell. I can understand damage saturation for the superstructure, but other parts shouldnt have it imo.

And ofc the false advertising of a damage ribbon resulting in 0 damage is just frustrating at best. Thats just how human brain works i guess :Smile-_tongue:. In the end u will remember those situations more often than an overpen doing much more damage, and dealing 0 damage with a pen ribbon will always feel worse...

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Yesterday in my missouri I found 2 BB sailing in a straight line and perfectly broadside to me.

- Iowa: Cita cita cita cita cita-> sunk.

- Tirpitz: Overpen, 0 dmg 0 dmg 0 dmg...........

 

So yes the  0 dmg pens are sometimes a bit of a pain.

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[ADRIA]
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AA guns, secondaries, Main guns, barbettes - all of those can be penetrated and then will give you that penetration ribbon, but they don't damage the ship. Those would be the usual suspects.

 

Then there is spaced armour - like on French cruisers or the Amagis massive torpedo bulges - you can pen those, get the pen ribbon with them, but if the shell explodes before it enter the ship itself - 0 damage.

 

And lastly - damage saturation. Healthy section takes full pen damage (33% of maximal damage that's shown or your shell), when the are becomes black it's saturated and takes just half of the pen damage (16.5% of indicated) and when you reach that same saturation threshold again - it becomes depleted and simply will not take any more damage. Get pens as much as you like there - they will do 0 dmg.

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On 1/1/2018 at 1:54 AM, DFens_666 said:

In the end u will remember those situations more often than an overpen doing much more damage

Most people, in fact, won't even notice the super-overpens. They hit the target (often with more than one shell), some damage number pops up, you don't usually calculate how much damage appeared and how much should. What IS noticeable is when you expect damage and none happens - be it hitting your almost-dead target to see NOTHING happening... or your own DD straight-up ignoring the second torp that struck the same place (after losing 90% hp to the first one). Damage value different from the expected are nowhere near as noticeable as "wait, shouldn't there be SOME damage there?" :Smile-_tongue:

 

Btw, another thing that I don't believe should be done as it is now (other than possibility of 0 damage pens) is how DoT is handled. All these "reduced fire/flooding time" effects should in fact reduce the DAMAGE and a "repaired" fire/flooding shouldn't be the "no damage from now on" effects either. I mean, for fires it works reasonably well, I admit, but the flooding mechanics just seem so fundamentally flawed - MOST floodings just don't do any damage (because people insta-repair) and then a single torp (and remember how long it takes to set up a torp attack, it's very rare to have the comfort of being able to try and set-up repair-bait and follow-up flooding, even against bad players) that hits someone at lucky moment can be absolutely crippling - or just outright lethal if the target happens to not be on high hp. And that's AFTER you take into account the fact that causing flooding in the first place is RNG-based?...

Flooding is just too much of an all-or-nothing thing. I appreciate tactical options for carriers, but the thing should really be less powerful in ideal case scenario but - instead - more reliable overall, guaranteed to result in at least a couple "ticks" of damage.

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Beta Tester
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More stupid game mechanics.

 

Damaging and destroying external modules like AA guns and main battery turrets does not actually count towards doing damage to the actual ship. Which to me is just dumb because those external AA mounts and especially main battery turrets are still part of the actual ship. But its been in the game pretty much since the start.

 

What is worse is that hitting those will still give you a ribbon, which is just confusing. I shot a Yamato with a full broadside of 203mm HE in the side of the superstructure, got 7 ribbons, 3 AA guns destroyed and 0 actual damage. Confusing as hell.

 

It is a holdover mechanic from WoT where shooting away tracks would not do damage to the actual tank, which makes sense for tanks but not for ships.

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1 hour ago, eliastion said:

Btw, another thing that I don't believe should be done as it is now (other than possibility of 0 damage pens) is how DoT is handled. All these "reduced fire/flooding time" effects should in fact reduce the DAMAGE and a "repaired" fire/flooding shouldn't be the "no damage from now on" effects either. I mean, for fires it works reasonably well, I admit, but the flooding mechanics just seem so fundamentally flawed - MOST floodings just don't do any damage (because people insta-repair) and then a single torp (and remember how long it takes to set up a torp attack, it's very rare to have the comfort of being able to try and set-up repair-bait and follow-up flooding, even against bad players) that hits someone at lucky moment can be absolutely crippling - or just outright lethal if the target happens to not be on high hp. And that's AFTER you take into account the fact that causing flooding in the first place is RNG-based?...

 

I couldnt agree more!

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