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Kii needs a buff - petition?

Change Kii  

63 members have voted

  1. 1. Change the Kii?

    • Buff primary guns
      23
    • Buff armor
      16
    • Buff something else
      4
    • Don't change her
      13
    • What key?
      7

53 comments in this topic

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[GURKA]
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Hey guys,

 

I play Kii since a while and generally I love this ship. In random battles I was always fine with that, but since ranked battles started I just noticed how bad this ship is. All the advantages, that this ship has are only secondary properties and the weakness lay in the primary properties. So I was wondering, is a petition for a buff possible, or at least a change/balancing, we don't have to call it buff. Would you change it? People argue with the "secondary properties", that this ship is fine.  But:

 

What are one of the main properties of a battleship? Fire power and sustain. Firepower means good main guns, sustain is mainly armor and HP. I think that this ship needs a buff of the main guns, similar to the amagis guns. Most ships have sigma values between 1,8 and 2,0. Bad dispersion like the german bbs have a sigma of 1.8. Even Amagi has 1.8 sigma. So there are also ships with good dispersion like the NC with 2,0. The Kii has 1,7... just why? It's one of the worst value in game, but it's so similar to the Amagi!

 

Just to summarize the Advantages of the Kii vs. the disadvantages

 

+Torpedos: Torpedos are no primary weapons, you don't use it often, it's more an emergency weapon

+Good Anti-air: Only good, when there is a CV. How often do you fight against CVs? In ranked maybe 10% or less of the games.

 

-Bad armor: The bad armor makes also the advantage of Torpedos weaker

-Bad guns: Primary weapons. They shouldn't be that bad.

 

The combination of bad japanese armor and bad guns make this ship just bad. If you would have good armor like germans, you couldp lay this ship as melee brawler and torpedos would be more useful as well. It feels like you play a Tirpitz with worse dispersion than a Bismarck. Just imagine the Tirpitz would have a worse dispersion than Bismarck, would you play it?

 

If you are for the 3rd option to change something else than guns or armor, write it down here! I'm also glad to here of your experiences with the Kii in ranked!

 

I'm for buffing the guns, buffing armor is more difficult because of realsim

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Well, ships are balanced for Random, not Ranked. And it is nothing new that some ships are just bad for Ranked. So changing a ship because it's not good for Ranked won't happen.

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43 minutes ago, Commander_Cornflakes said:

Well, ships are balanced for Random, not Ranked. And it is nothing new that some ships are just bad for Ranked. So changing a ship because it's not good for Ranked won't happen.

 

It's neither good for random battles. In ranked you just notice that way more because of same tiers. If you [edited]up against a T10 you won't say "Oh, my guns are so bad," you say, "[edited]a T10 out scales me". CVs are also relativly rare in random battles. It's just frustrating using the Kii guns

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TLDR is don't take Kii or even an Amagi into Ranked unless you're a genuine unicum or you enjoy being farmed...

 

Fine ship in Randoms however. You no like 10 16" AP guns?! :cap_rambo:

 

I hope you didn't buy it for full price. An Amagi with Perm camo is probably more effective.

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2 hours ago, Negativvv said:

TLDR is don't take Kii or even an Amagi into Ranked unless you're a genuine unicum or you enjoy being farmed...

 

Fine ship in Randoms however. You no like 10 16" AP guns?! :cap_rambo:

 

I hope you didn't buy it for full price. An Amagi with Perm camo is probably more effective.

 

I play the Amagi in ranked, it's so much better. Armor and guns. Way better. My Amagi winrate is 59% in ranked by 34 games. Ki 34% at 72 games. I know, that is really sad, but with the Kii, I missed so often full broad side, when I just could delete a ship.  Once I missed 8 shells at 5 km broad side. 1 bounced off and one normal pen... that was really sad xD

Amagi doesn't feels like you get farmed, this ship is fine in my opinion

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Kii's fine this way.

It's one of the rare balanced BB with both strenght and weaknesses. If anything other BB should get nerfed to her level.

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[IRON7]
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Only things I could think of are either increasing the sigma to 1.8; why is it 1.7 anyhow? Because of the torps? But then again, a 0.1 sigma increase isn't much of an impact.

Or improving citadel armour slightly, but then again, that shouldn't be too much if an issue if you don't show your broadside like a zombie.

 

Also, the OP is slightly in the wrong; the Kii isn't a battleship, its a fast battleship; meaning it sacrifices some armour for speed; and when you compare it to the Nagato, it has almost the same belt armour (wikipedia stats), extra speed, and an extra turret. Oh, and torps.

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10 hours ago, ShinGetsu said:

Kii's fine this way.

It's one of the rare balanced BB with both strenght and weaknesses. If anything other BB should get nerfed to her level.

Kii is fine, but many other BB's are better than fine? That would make Kii underpowered ^^'

 

6 hours ago, Nishi_Kinuyo said:

Only things I could think of are either increasing the sigma to 1.8; why is it 1.7 anyhow? Because of the torps? But then again, a 0.1 sigma increase isn't much of an impact.

Or improving citadel armour slightly, but then again, that shouldn't be too much if an issue if you don't show your broadside like a zombie.

 

Also, the OP is slightly in the wrong; the Kii isn't a battleship, its a fast battleship; meaning it sacrifices some armour for speed; and when you compare it to the Nagato, it has almost the same belt armour (wikipedia stats), extra speed, and an extra turret. Oh, and torps.

0.1 is much. The whole range of sigma of the most ship are between 1.8 and 2.0, so it's a huge difference, if you're a 1.8 german bb, or a ship with 1.9. And the armor is weak, you can get citadells while angled, and if not, you always eat so much dmg because of the high hull and superstructures. If I compare that with the Amagi, it's such a difference. Amagi has a 2 layered armor because of the torpedo belt, that gives an extra roll for auto bouncing. The reason "because of the torps", I don't know, Tirpitz has torps as well, but still the same sigma like the bismarck, there are other differences of course, but sigma is a very important stat.

Quote

The only major difference between the Kiis and Amagis was their speed and armor—the Amagis were faster, and the Kiis had a thicker belt.

This is from wiki. Thanks to the armor belt, the Amagi armor is better xD

 

I also wouldn't compare that with the Nagato. Nagato is a T7 ship ^^'

Amagi has an extra turrent as well, but better dispersion, better armor, "better" secondaries.

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Kii is worse than all other tier 8s atm at everything thats important and has an effect on each and every game despite MM and the specifics for how the game plays out.

 

 

 

BUT HEY IT GETS SITUATIONAL TORPS AND AA WHICH IS DEPENDENT ON MM AND ONLY USEFULL IN  VERY SPECIFIC SCENARIOS! GOOD SHIP GUYS!

 

 

 

On a serious note though if it gets buffed to 1.8 sigma I would be pleased. I mean it would still be inferior to Amagi or any of the other tier 8s for competitive picks. Then this is never gonna happen because from what previous experience WG either buffs something to an insanely broken OP state or they dont buff it at all.... why they cant just give prem ships smaller buffs I guess we'll never know

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17 hours ago, Affeks said:

Kii is worse than all other tier 8s atm at everything thats important and has an effect on each and every game despite MM and the specifics for how the game plays out.

 

And yet, it still performs well compared to all the other T8's (down to the drivers perhaps).

 

I like her, but have been made very aware of her iffy armour and also the RNG dependence of her guns.... (Just unlocked the amagi and finding her very similar in both those regards also, but need more time in both to get a fair comparison).

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10 hours ago, philjd said:

And yet, it still performs well compared to all the other T8's (down to the drivers perhaps).

 

I like her, but have been made very aware of her iffy armour and also the RNG dependence of her guns.... (Just unlocked the amagi and finding her very similar in both those regards also, but need more time in both to get a fair comparison).

I very rarely see bad Kii players

 

However Bismarck and Tirpitz weekend warriors are rampant and deflate those ship' stats.

 

You cant look at server wide stats and draw conclusions from there.

 

On my profile I do much better in Kii than Amagi, but I havent played Amagi in over a year, a time which I was a terrible player. 

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i think it needs more Armor more strong Citadel protection 

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14 hours ago, nti9 said:

i think it needs more Armor more strong Citadel protection 

I agree, historically it was supposed to be more protected than Amagi, however ingame in practice Amagi is much more tanky in every way except health pool

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On 27.12.2017 at 10:45 PM, Pikkozoikum said:

Hey guys,

 

I play Kii since a while and generally I love this ship. In random battles I was always fine with that, but since ranked battles started I just noticed how bad this ship is. All the advantages, that this ship has are only secondary properties and the weakness lay in the primary properties. So I was wondering, is a petition for a buff possible, or at least a change/balancing, we don't have to call it buff. Would you change it? People argue with the "secondary properties", that this ship is fine.  But:

 

What are one of the main properties of a battleship? Fire power and sustain. Firepower means good main guns, sustain is mainly armor and HP. I think that this ship needs a buff of the main guns, similar to the amagis guns. Most ships have sigma values between 1,8 and 2,0. Bad dispersion like the german bbs have a sigma of 1.8. Even Amagi has 1.8 sigma. So there are also ships with good dispersion like the NC with 2,0. The Kii has 1,7... just why? It's one of the worst value in game, but it's so similar to the Amagi!

 

Just to summarize the Advantages of the Kii vs. the disadvantages

 

+Torpedos: Torpedos are no primary weapons, you don't use it often, it's more an emergency weapon

+Good Anti-air: Only good, when there is a CV. How often do you fight against CVs? In ranked maybe 10% or less of the games.

 

-Bad armor: The bad armor makes also the advantage of Torpedos weaker

-Bad guns: Primary weapons. They shouldn't be that bad.

 

The combination of bad japanese armor and bad guns make this ship just bad. If you would have good armor like germans, you couldp lay this ship as melee brawler and torpedos would be more useful as well. It feels like you play a Tirpitz with worse dispersion than a Bismarck. Just imagine the Tirpitz would have a worse dispersion than Bismarck, would you play it?

 

If you are for the 3rd option to change something else than guns or armor, write it down here! I'm also glad to here of your experiences with the Kii in ranked!

 

I'm for buffing the guns, buffing armor is more difficult because of realsim

Long story short why U buy this crap? I love when wallet warriors start to cry:) No buff for Kii.

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On 06/01/2018 at 7:37 PM, turkina said:

Long story short why U buy this crap? I love when wallet warriors start to cry:) No buff for Kii.

I got mine in a Xmas container... Would not have paid full price for one!!

 

The guns derp in amusing ways they straddle targets at medium range. 

 

Very much doubt I'll have paid full price for one but she's nice enough most of the time.

 

Buffs would be bad but the only one I'd want to see would be a speed buff. Everything else would pander to BB players.

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On 6.1.2018 at 8:37 PM, turkina said:

Long story short why U buy this crap? I love when wallet warriors start to cry:) No buff for Kii.

 

The first sentence answer this question. Generally I like that ship, it looks beautiful, it's nice to have a IJN ship without shiit aa. Torps are always fun to have. In general it's a nice ship, but not if you play it competitive ;)

I love it, when people always say "cry", it's not crying, if you want to improve something and if you share ideas how to improve it. It's a good thing, if someone wants to make a game better.

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9 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

 

I love it, when people always say "cry", it's not crying, if you want to improve something and if you share ideas how to improve it. It's a good thing, if someone wants to make a game better.

Improving a ship isn't improving the game...

 

Maybe it's improving what someone had paid money for.

 

I've seen Kii being used at the highest tiers in Ranked so it seems viable enough.

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2 hours ago, Negativvv said:

Improving a ship isn't improving the game...

 

Maybe it's improving what someone had paid money for.

 

I've seen Kii being used at the highest tiers in Ranked so it seems viable enough.

One has to ask though: used, or used to good effect? :cap_hmm:

On the other hand, an excellent player could possibly even make a mediocre ship work well.

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10 minutes ago, Nishi_Kinuyo said:

One has to ask though: used, or used to good effect? :cap_hmm:

On the other hand, an excellent player could possibly even make a mediocre ship work well.

Saw a few Rank 2s and 3s. 

 

I think I'm ok in BBs but I find them really limited in Ranked.

 

No idea how a Kii gets by with squishy armour. The risk of being nuked by other ships is huge then you've potentially just cost your team that game. Almost like playing a Cruiser. 

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15 minutes ago, Nishi_Kinuyo said:

 

Double fail post :Smile_amazed:

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4 minutes ago, Negativvv said:

Saw a few Rank 2s and 3s. 

 

I think I'm in BBs but I find them really limited in Ranked.

 

No idea how a Kii gets by with squishy armour. The risk of being nuked by other ships is huge then you've potentially just cost your team that game. Almost like playing a Cruiser. 

You don't get nuked if you don't show your broadside.

Something any decent BB player knows and can do.

 

Kii is especially great when kiting, but it can also push forward without issues.

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7 minutes ago, ShinGetsu said:

You don't get nuked if you don't show your broadside.

Something any decent BB player knows and can do.

 

Kii is especially great when kiting, but it can also push forward without issues.

Definitely weaker armour than on an Amagi. 

 

Even angled you take more red damage shots that slice into the armour.

 

I still like mine however but I wouldn't take one over an Amagi given the choice.

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On 18.1.2018 at 9:16 PM, Negativvv said:

Improving a ship isn't improving the game...

 

Maybe it's improving what someone had paid money for.

 

I've seen Kii being used at the highest tiers in Ranked so it seems viable enough.

Improving a ship could improve the game (balance). If there are many op ships and many up ships and you would improve all under powered ships to become even with the op, the game will be improved, because there is so imbalance.

 

Also seeing a weak ship in high ranks doesn't mean, that this ship a good. Last year someone played Pensacola in ranked a got rank 1 with that ship. Don't tell me now that Pensacola is a top meta ship :P

 

Kii is a worse Amagi with torpedos and good aa. I played many games the Kii and many games the Amagi in ranked. Amagi is way better, the torpedo belt makes a huge difference because of the auto bounce mechanic. Torpedos can help sometimes, but rarely and if I want play a melee brawler with torps, I would prefer the Tirpitz.

 

On 18.1.2018 at 11:45 PM, Negativvv said:

Definitely weaker armour than on an Amagi. 

 

Even angled you take more red damage shots that slice into the armour.

 

I still like mine however but I wouldn't take one over an Amagi given the choice.

 

You're saying it ;)

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On 18.1.2018 at 11:36 PM, ShinGetsu said:

You don't get nuked if you don't show your broadside.

Something any decent BB player knows and can do.

 

Kii is especially great when kiting, but it can also push forward without issues.

Amagi is way better in kiting. It's funny ,the last days some Youtube said, that Musashi is the first good premium japanese bb ^^

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On 1/18/2018 at 9:16 PM, Negativvv said:

I've seen Kii being used at the highest tiers in Ranked so it seems viable enough.

Hi :p

On 1/18/2018 at 11:31 PM, Negativvv said:

No idea how a Kii gets by with squishy armour. The risk of being nuked by other ships is huge then you've potentially just cost your team that game. Almost like playing a Cruiser. 

Kii gets away with "squishy armor" because your biggest threat to your broadside is BBs, and they are usually locked in static positions during ranked so you can manage that with enough planning and map awareness.

On the other hand though the fact that Kii is covered with 32mm plating makes her super squish to HE spam from cruisers. A few times I made the mistake of underestimating Kutuzovs and Atagos, often shredding me in a few volleys. Then again Kii gets away with this in Ranked since cruisers are rather few and too far between to pose a real threat. Also its not like cruisers can push up wherever so often you can still play around it though.

6 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Amagi is way better in kiting. 

This is true, Kii has worse turning circle, rudder AND degrees turn per second is worse. As well as the 10 thousands other weaknesses she has.

 

On 1/18/2018 at 11:36 PM, ShinGetsu said:

but it can also push forward without issues.

In ranked having the torps gives you a big advantage over any BB (except for Tirpitz) threatening to push and torp rush them if they are alone/not kiting correctly.

 

This is yet another advantage that is only really relevant in Ranked as the 7v7 matches makes the game much more predictable and less prone to getting effed over by a stray ship that you have no way of keeping control over in a 12v12 match.

 

Another strength that Kii has that makes her good for Ranked is the IJN dispersion pattern (bad vertical, but good horizontal dispersion). It is better than any other nation when it comes to shooting angled targets despite Kii's lack of good sigma. Once I got the aim down in the first few battles, I was able to reliably hit 6-12k volleys on just about any enemy BB despite them angling correctly. So where every other nation is better when shooting broadside targets, Kii is exponentially better when it comes to whittle down angled BBs in static positions. OFC this is nothing Amagi does worse, but its at least something Kii does better than BBs from other nations.

 

On a serious note though I finished this ranked season at rank 1 with a 71% WR in Kii over the course of 72 battles most of those in rank 5-2. So she can definitely pull her weight in a more predictable game mode, but when I took her out in Randoms it was obvious she just lags behind the competition in the bigger matches. So I still find Kii way to weak especially when we have Amagi which outperforms her in every practical way.

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