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So, I could use some advice on how to play the Gneisenau. 

It is specced for brawling and my captain (just 12p) is geared towards that too. 

 

What other ships on the team should I stick with? 

 

And should I hang back early game to get stuck in later (seems to overextend alot right now)? 

 

Support the caps from close up or not? 

 

I usually play DDs but would like to get better at other ships and this one seems to disagree with how I play it. 

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I haven't played it, but I would avoid going near enemy DDs in a ship with that few guns and turrets. But you should never stay too far back either. Support your cruisers and stay near them. Blow up enemy cruisers and fight the BBs if you have to. Blowing up cruisers is what you can probably do the best. This supports your own cruisers and more importantly your DDs.

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@SmartassNoob

Thank you. 

I usually try to move with the cruisers but I might have been doing it too far up. I'll try to keep supporting them but from slightly further away. 

 

The Guns are slightly erratic for me even against broadside cruisers but that might be my poor aim but I'll see if I get better results focusing cruisers more. 

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What skills do you have with 12 pt? If you want to go secondaries, ideally it'd be PT, AR, SI and AFT. BFT maybe instead of SI.

 

In general, the Gneisenau is an odd ship that can be tanky under good circumstances, but if one messes up, it just melts away. It cannot long-range snipe. Germans in general can't do that, except König maybe, but Gneisenau absolutely cannot. You can try fire some shots at range, if there's nothing better close by, but you should never stay back too far. The Gneisenau is sadly a brawler through and through. And I'm not going to say you aren't good at it. It's just, that (and killing planes) is about all you got going for this ship over its same-tier colleagues. So, you practically will need to brawl, if you want a good game.

 

To achieve this, don't stay at the back, but also don't rush in recklessly. You are not a Bismarck (which also shouldn't mindlessly charge in, but at least it is far better at it). You will likely at the start of the battle play a supporting role. Shoot at things that present a nice target. If there's few enemy ships around, feel free to push a bit. Especially when top tier, you kinda have to be a bit aggressive, because you have to act your role as top tier BB and be a threat and a Gneisenau at 15-17 km is not much of one. A Gneisenau at 10 km starts to be one. A Gneisenau closer up is a threat hardly anyone ignores, because people know, you got torpedos. Also, if you push, watch if folks follow you, because you don't want to be alone, and maybe if you as top tier BB charge in, some might follow (but never count on it, unless you are in a division).

 

If you are not top tier, lean back. Then you can just tag along with some Bismarck/Tirpitz buddy or other BBs that seem to be willing to not just go off and snipe and support them, benefitting from the fact that angled you are tanky and not much of a threat compared to others, so people hesitate to shoot you over much else.

 

In any case, the secret to the Gneisenau, in my opinion, is to know when to push. At some point in the battle, there will be a time, when you finally can commit, get out your manpants and go in for brawling. Or you have to, because the battle stagnates and you are about to lose otherwise. Best when there's no DDs, maybe a cruiser or so, best a single BB or two (if not much else or you got support). Sadly, not only might folks desert your push, if you counted on them, but also, the ship is so fast, it could outrun them. So, even then, it's good to be careful. But if you have those juicy single BBs that you can duel, or cruisers you can bully, it's nice.

 

The strengths are naturally your armour, which angled is tanky, though if you show broadside, you are about to get wrecked. If you overcommit, turn before you die, don't go reverse or slow. Don't turn away from such a fight with anything but full speed, because it's risky, but if you overextented, then you are going to eat damage anyway. Full-speed turn is the most likely to get you out alive. You can actually, if the enemy outnumbers you but is dumb enough, kite some enemy BB till it follows you far enough to be isolated, so you can kill it in a brawl. Also, you have torpedos. Especially against lower tier, the best approach is to charge in at full speed, shoot them on the approach, turn the turrets, shoot them during a drive-by (best into the citadel), launch the torpedos at an undodgeable sub 2 km and then hope the target dies. If it doesn't, turn ship and turrets to finish them off. Likely, the enemy dies to torpedos, but if not, at these ranges, they won't citadel you and they might even overestimate your speed, which will beat their turret traverse. This approach is also workable against upper tier ships, even Tier IX can be fought with a fighting chance (though you have to work a bit harder to make your armour work).

 

Sadly, this is about the sole situation where the Gneisenau is good and in every other instance, you basically have to grit your teeth and bear with a sub-par ship. Except Aa, but well. Not exactly much Exp to be earned there.

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@Riselotte

Reading your reply I think my primary problem is overcommiting and ending up alone. 

 

Will have to learn to read the Map better and not get into as many suboptimal situations. 

 

Kiting is something I actually never considered, but she has the speed and handling to pull it off so I'll try it. 

 

Thank you! 

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Yeah, the ship invites to overcomitting. It has so many strengths in that regard, but it just cannot stand being alone against too many enemies. It can be excellent at 1v1s though, especially against BBs. Against cruisers, you just got to be patient, have discipline with your damage control and aim. Often you'll get nothing but straddles and overpens against cruisers, but you just have to recall that in a shooting contest between a cruiser and a battleship, if you aim well, sooner or later you will get the citadels and end that cruiser, while you can just repair their damage to you. Only when it's against multiple ships, or when you let them lure you out of position, you messed up. Insofar, trying to go along with other ships pays off, because if there's for example a Nagato or a Bismarck with you, those cruisers likely will be far less intent to  be cheeky, because their chances to survive such engagements drop drastically.

 

Kiting is something I learned out of desperation, more than because I considered it at first. But if you do find yourself against multiple enemy threats, turning away and kiting them while luring them towards the rest of your team is not a bad idea. The turret angles backwards aren't too bad and the broadside armour is good. If your enemy is not a fast BB, you can even use it to seperate the cruisers from the battleships, kill the closer cruisers first, before turning around to brawl.

 

The Gneisenau is so much more likely to overextent than the Bayern, just because you get better armour that can bounce most lower tier shells when hit from the front, your guns are concentrated forward-facing, you have torpedos, you go at 32 knots. Doing what one did in the Bayern, going in and just shooting things up at midrange can even inadvertantly end up as overextending, if you underestimate how fast this ship goes. But if you can learn map awareness, then it's good and it prepares you for the Bismarck, which is a far better ship that kind of gets the tools to get the job done, as it gets better armour, a better main battery and hydroacoustic search, which allowed me to even push caps against DDs when I noticed they are unsupported, because you can just hydro, dodge their volley and then drive them out when they realise they are up against your main battery and Bismarck secondaries. Wouldn't ever do that in a Gneisenau, because pushing against DDs is pretty risky, as turning in this ship is not too easy and you don't have hydro to give you plenty of warning. Pushing against DDs carelessly in a Gneisenau is pretty suicidal.

 

Lastly, I can only say, personally, there were plenty of times when I wished I rather was in a Nagato. The grind was worth it though and it is best to not just blame the ship, but really be careful with where you position yourself. One has to get a feeling for ones capabilities and limits and the ship is often less about raw damage and more about actually seizing the initiative and winning a game. In some games, for example, I didn't survive, but I managed to push the enemy BBs so far from the caps that they weren't able to avoid the rest of my team taking them, because the enemy BBs were running to avoid getting in torpedo range and against anything that isn't 16-inch, that bow is extremely tanky. At times the push managed to trade my ship against one tier VII and a battle mauled other tier VII BB and divert their attention for long enough to give my team some breathing room. Because how garbage you may think your guns are, it cannot be denied that when a Gneisenau comes charging in, the sole thing that gets greater priority as a target is maybe a DD if it is even closer.

 

Oh, and if you feel too frustrated with teams in randoms, I never tried it, but I'd think Gneisenau might be one of those BBs where it becomes way more enjoyable if you get two buddies and form a division to push together. Knowing you won't be deserted halway through must be so much more fun and three people can be pretty self-reliant, I'd think.

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If you plan on keeping Gneisenau even after you stepped up to Bismarck, and setting up a dedicated captain, I highly recommend a full AA captain: 

http://shipcomrade.com/captcalc/1100000000000010000010000000110119

Gneisenau's B-hull has a unique setup of 11x2 128mm guns. Her long range AA can reach 180 dps at 7.5 km, or 360 dps on selected squadron. That is even more than Atlanta can max out (not counting DFAA) while your BB icon still lures in some bomber waves. Clear Sky against a Lexington sure feels good :)

 

I found the secondary build to be inferior as it does not compliment the main guns as well as Scharnhorst does. Traverse is too slow, reload is too slow, 6 guns at full broadside is a bit meh... So I play her like an AA cruiser and take pot shots for half of the game. Brawling within torpedo range only comes later when enemy lines have been thinned out a bit.

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Gneis is for me a wonderful ship. It has the Tirpitz/ Bismarck guns. Granted: only 6 of them. For me it's working perfectly when secondary specced. Come real close to the reds, hug them to death. It's a mid to late game phase shiner IMO. Have patience, let the game play out and shoot/ secondary/ torp those red sods to their glorious next game in seconds. If you master Gneisenau the rest of the German BB line will be a walk in the parc and a true enjoyment to play...

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Pretty much what has already been said: KNOW WHEN TO PUSH.

 

Gneisenau is a beast when used correctly but you gotta read the situation and figure out what's going on.

Try to play it safe at the start and support your cruisers and DDs: they will kill enemy DDs so that you can allow yourself to push in more aggressively.

Get used to spot overextending enemies: they are your prey. You are fast so you can close the distance in a matter of a couple salvos.

The guns are a bit luckluster but the caliber has good pen values and dmg.

 

As a personal note, I would go with a secondary build.

The more you get close, the deadlier you become.

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On ‎27‎.‎12‎.‎2017 at 12:19 PM, deadly_if_swallowed said:

If you plan on keeping Gneisenau even after you stepped up to Bismarck, and setting up a dedicated captain, I highly recommend a full AA captain: 

http://shipcomrade.com/captcalc/1100000000000010000010000000110119

Gneisenau's B-hull has a unique setup of 11x2 128mm guns. Her long range AA can reach 180 dps at 7.5 km, or 360 dps on selected squadron. That is even more than Atlanta can max out (not counting DFAA) while your BB icon still lures in some bomber waves. Clear Sky against a Lexington sure feels good :)

 

I found the secondary build to be inferior as it does not compliment the main guns as well as Scharnhorst does. Traverse is too slow, reload is too slow, 6 guns at full broadside is a bit meh... So I play her like an AA cruiser and take pot shots for half of the game. Brawling within torpedo range only comes later when enemy lines have been thinned out a bit.

 

I have developed a habbit to play T7 divisions and took this advice. Dedicated cap for AA to Gneisenau. I only have 10 point cap atm so its limited to BFT+MAA atm, AFT coming up. 

 

But overall how do you play this ship? Even accuracy mod mains were horrible when I leveled the ship and now with AA mod its even worse. Only use as AA platform? 

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The 6 shells are nothing to write home about to say the least, but damage will stack up eventually. Tbh I do not have accuracy issues with German guns. Ever since I played high tier RN ships, Richelieu, and Alsace, all German guns feel like sniper rifles to me.

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6 minutes ago, deadly_if_swallowed said:

The 6 shells are nothing to write home about to say the least, but damage will stack up eventually. Tbh I do not have accuracy issues with German guns. Ever since I played high tier RN ships, Richelieu, and Alsace, all German guns feel like sniper rifles to me.

Are frenchie BBs that inaccurate?

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15 minutes ago, deadly_if_swallowed said:

The 6 shells are nothing to write home about to say the least, but damage will stack up eventually. Tbh I do not have accuracy issues with German guns. Ever since I played high tier RN ships, Richelieu, and Alsace, all German guns feel like sniper rifles to me.

Hmm, this is intresting. I am only at Queen Elizabeth with RN and havent played a single game with French. I thought Richal would be superior to Bismarck in almost every aspect. 

 

I dont know why but I manage with Bismarck guns. Surely it has third more guns to Gneisenau but they just work for me. Also overall combination of 11,3km manual secondaries and solid armor suits my style. At the same time I am not that confident with NC even while it has way better guns. 

 

But actually your answer didnt answered the question. How do you play AA Gneisenau? Take central position and try to gain advantage of your AA, ok, but thats just fraction of the game and gives good overall game only if enemy CV is stupid enough and feed you planes. 

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Gneisenau is my best ship and I like it very much. First of all: My build is maximum AA Range (7,5km AA) and manuell AA. Adrenaline Rush und the additional heal perk, including premium repair and premium heal.

The first issue with the Gneisenau is not to close in too early. You get focused and melted away. In the late game you can kill nearly everything in 1 vs 1. Secondly you are always a premium target for torps. Long, not really easy to turn and no hydro. You need DD support or at least evasion moves. Driving long the same way will get you killed.

Back to my main point. Don’t close in before you reached the 10 minutes point. A lot of DDs and HE Spammer are dead than and you will enjoy a push much more. Last but not least: Don’t fire the torps too early. Mostly it is worse waiting till the last moment.

The Gneisenau is a great ship and vs carrier the best ship on its tier. Full AA it can deal even with T9 planes.

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1 hour ago, StefanHofi said:

Gneisenau is my best ship and I like it very much. First of all: My build is maximum AA Range (7,5km AA) and manuell AA. Adrenaline Rush und the additional heal perk, including premium repair and premium heal.

The first issue with the Gneisenau is not to close in too early. You get focused and melted away. In the late game you can kill nearly everything in 1 vs 1. Secondly you are always a premium target for torps. Long, not really easy to turn and no hydro. You need DD support or at least evasion moves. Driving long the same way will get you killed.

Back to my main point. Don’t close in before you reached the 10 minutes point. A lot of DDs and HE Spammer are dead than and you will enjoy a push much more. Last but not least: Don’t fire the torps too early. Mostly it is worse waiting till the last moment.

The Gneisenau is a great ship and vs carrier the best ship on its tier. Full AA it can deal even with T9 planes.

 

I got it back for a while and played some division games with T7 Hiryu buddy. AA is great if you need to use it. But overall... How the heck do you hit anything with those guns? And I mean anything. Broadside BB or cruiser under 10km away 4-6 shells away and you get one overpen if lucky. Many cases all missed. Incredibly frustrating. 

 

Aim shoul be ok since guns are same as Bismarcks and I really like that ship. Also playing a lot with NC which requires good aim.

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shooting is like rolling dices: One solvo produces on 7km only one overpen, but the next you citadel a cruiser on 15km. There is not really an accuracy difference between Gneisenau and Tirpitz/Bismarck. But the 2 guns less makes the outcome more extreme. If you really dislike it, use the Scharnhorst. More or less the same accuracy, but 3 guns more give more results around the median. Unfortunately the Scharnhorst lacks the 128mm AA; wich is really unique for the Gneisenau. Only the Kurfürst has it too.

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Not to sound like a broken record or anything, but shouldn't you use your (pretty good as I recall) secondaries to make up for any lack of performance by the big guns?

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5 hours ago, StefanHofi said:

shooting is like rolling dices: One solvo produces on 7km only one overpen, but the next you citadel a cruiser on 15km. There is not really an accuracy difference between Gneisenau and Tirpitz/Bismarck. But the 2 guns less makes the outcome more extreme. If you really dislike it, use the Scharnhorst. More or less the same accuracy, but 3 guns more give more results around the median. Unfortunately the Scharnhorst lacks the 128mm AA; wich is really unique for the Gneisenau. Only the Kurfürst has it too.

Scharnhorst actually is more accurate, afaik.

4 hours ago, lafeel said:

Not to sound like a broken record or anything, but shouldn't you use your (pretty good as I recall) secondaries to make up for any lack of performance by the big guns?

Hahaha, no. Even on the best German BBs, secondary ranges are just a bit over 11 km. Gneisenau is sub 10 km. Like, I think 7-8 km. You absolutely cannot just try to stay at that range for extented periods of time, as you'd overextent and get focussed down. Especially Gneisenau, who'll get shot for carrying torps and being a major threat at that range. Add to that, that the secondaries usually aren't going to help you that much. In some rare games, they might be responsible for half your damage, but usually, in Bismarck it's like 10-15 k out of 50-100+k. Fires included. With other Germans, your damage output typically stems from keeping the guns singing with their (typically AR-boosted) reload that starts at 24-26 seconds and falls off towards 20 seconds. In Gneisenau you may also torp things in the 1 on 1. It's why ships like Gneisenau are so very meh, because their reliable DPM output is garbage. In anything other than a CV, Gneisenau is likely the least threatening T7 BB. Can't hit anything at range, just don't get too close. Nagato and Colorado at least are somewhat accurate and Lyon is the one T7 BB I really don't want in the enemy lineup as a cruiser. Premium-wise, Scharnhorst is accurate and fires fast, Hood and Nelson are decently accurate, first being a bit of a cruiser killer and the second having a heavy broadside for its tier. Ok, Ashitaka I might consider even more lulzy, but Ashitaka still gets to roll the dice 10 times per salvo, not 6. 

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Gneisi is my favorite ship, I'm unicum in it..

Do you want to know how can you do it too?

Spoiler

19 point captain, maxed AA and playing with competent CV in division.. (also you need Propulsion Modification 2!!, Auxiliary Armaments Modification 1, Sierra Mike, November Echo Setteseven and its better to get Expert Marksman than Adrenalin and I don't use Superintendent but Fire Prevention)

 

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On 4/23/2018 at 7:06 PM, LongJohn_ said:

But actually your answer didnt answered the question. How do you play AA Gneisenau? Take central position and try to gain advantage of your AA, ok, but thats just fraction of the game and gives good overall game only if enemy CV is stupid enough and feed you planes. 

Oh, come on John! You know how AA gneisi work... :/

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13 hours ago, LoveYouTooBuddy said:

Oh, come on John! You know how AA gneisi work... :/

 

Yep but it was only a AA platform when I tried it. Only 6 main guns and dispersion is totally horrible. Played few games with avg dmg around 15-20k/battle. 

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20 hours ago, LoveYouTooBuddy said:

Gneisi is my favorite ship, I'm unicum in it..

Do you want to know how can you do it too?

  Hide contents

19 point captain, maxed AA and playing with competent CV in division.. (also you need Propulsion Modification 2!!, Auxiliary Armaments Modification 1, Sierra Mike, November Echo Setteseven and its better to get Expert Marksman than Adrenalin and I don't use Superintendent but Fire Prevention)

 

Why would you get Propulsion Mod 2 on your Gneisenau? Propulsion Mod allows a ship to get moving faster from a standstill. It is good for DDs that at times camp locations, need to get moving fast in situations or maybe some cruisers like Atlanta, where it can be useful if you hug islands, peak around a bit and don't need rudder to kite. But Gneisenau is a BB, it'll likely never sit still, unless yourun it aground or something. Steering Gears Mod 2 or Damage Control Mod 2 are both better choices. Auxiliary armaments also is actually a bit iffy. It's unlikely you'll be stripped off your heavy AA/secondary mounts and with this few guns, you really don't want to lose them, which can happen. Also keeps your exposed torp tubes alive longer.

 

Any reason EM is better than AR? The turrets turn already pretty fast and getting extra dpm on main battery and secondaries is very valuable.

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6 hours ago, Riselotte said:

Why would you get Propulsion Mod 2 on your Gneisenau? Propulsion Mod allows a ship to get moving faster from a standstill. It is good for DDs that at times camp locations, need to get moving fast in situations or maybe some cruisers like Atlanta, where it can be useful if you hug islands, peak around a bit and don't need rudder to kite. But Gneisenau is a BB, it'll likely never sit still, unless yourun it aground or something. Steering Gears Mod 2 or Damage Control Mod 2 are both better choices. Auxiliary armaments also is actually a bit iffy. It's unlikely you'll be stripped off your heavy AA/secondary mounts and with this few guns, you really don't want to lose them, which can happen. Also keeps your exposed torp tubes alive longer.

 

Any reason EM is better than AR? The turrets turn already pretty fast and getting extra dpm on main battery and secondaries is very valuable.

Yes, I rush the cap islands at the start to get no fly zone for the cv to kill the red dd. And then need to be able dodge the enemy rushing corners to torp me. 

Because I play very close I need my few turrets pointing at different directions very quickly.

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Go buy an Atlanta. That's a ship that actually is useful for this kind of play.

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11 hours ago, Riselotte said:

Go buy an Atlanta. That's a ship that actually is useful for this kind of play.

Atlanta dies too easy, cant push and no cv go for atlanta strike. You need to be able to go from cap to cap fast, to support your dds and cv. Atlanta will just die on the way to the second cap. You need to be able to use the islands(stop go fast) so your enemy need to come close to you(or just lose by points) and when they are close you don't worry about missing your shoots. And no, you don't turn to use gneisi torps, if you know how to play it.

In short when you play aa gneisi, you make sure your team have cv and the red one don't.

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