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wtfzazo

Is it me or Nagato is just bad?

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Slow as balls, AA would be shameful at tier 4, no armor whatsoever (citadelled it with a Kaiser in a training room) , its huge health pool is targeted by the Cleveland on the enemy team which scratches hands while BBQ-ing you and having a nice meal... this all in a nice package of bad repair costs, in which its more like I lose than I gain money...

 

I lost a gunfight to a half-dead Minekaze which started a fire I couldn't repair...

 

Struggling to FEEL meaningful. My record in this ship is: 63k damage, which in Fuso and Kongo was my average. Even in Myogi I was able to do more!

 

Yes, I know how to aim. I did well in Kongo.

 

So this is what goes to that shame of the Japanese battleship line. I feel like Izumo would be better.

 

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The Nagato is not a bad ship. It has the best BB guns on tier 7 overall in regards to damage, penetration, accuracy and range. The armor is not great, but angled and with the HP pool you can still be difficult to kill.

 

And as for aiming, well, you can certainly improve it a bit. ~20% hit ratio is not brilliant even for a battleship. Beeing in the high 20 or low 30% is more preferable.

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22 minutes ago, wtfzazo said:

 

 

Yes, I know how to aim. I did well in Kongo.

 

 

 

Not sure about that. The high calibre on the Nagato produces a lot of Overpens on broadside cruisers. It's basically Citadel or Overpen, nothing in between. So you want to place your shots well or look for slightly angled targets. On BBs the shells do reliable damage tho. Coming from the short-reload shotgun Fuso you have to aim way more carefully.

 

But yes, Nagato is not the best ship for random battles. In season 6 ranked it performed pretty good due to the good accuracy and acceptable speed.

 

You can't push with this ship since the armor is pretty garbage and if some bb gets your broadside you'll just eat a citadel. The size is massive which makes it a nice target for torpboats and CVs. The AA is garbage, you're right. 

You have to sit on the "second line" (around 12-14km) and try to find a decent target that you can punish with a well aimed salvo and try to position in a way where you won't be forced to show the broadside. Angled it can withstand incoming AP shells, against HE you just melt in this ship.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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That's just you. (I'd like to say but it is not entirely true. See the last lines of this post why that is the case)

  • IJN BBs all have bad AA values. It is still possible to kill quite a few planes with her though.
  • The ship isn't slow (You will absolutly hate the Colorado if you think the Nagato is slow).
  • The ship has good rudder shift times and is quite maneuvarable for a BB.
  • The guns are precise and pack a punch. There are just less of them then you had on the Fuso (which is essentially a shotgun by comparison), so it will feel like you are doing less because there are less lucky hits. Once you learn to aim her guns properly you will get amazing results. For comparison: You best result is noticably below my average with her but it took me half a dozen battles or more to get used to her guns after I switched from the Fuso.
  • While the germans outperform her now in that regard, her secondary guns are pretty decent.
  • Her armor works very well once you learn to angle yourself properly. Straight up front/rear or showing broadside should be avoided at all times.

Get close with her. Don't stay at maximum range and try to snipe. While she does have precision, she still works best at ranges below 15k. The closer you get the better your guns will work (well... that's actually true for most ships).

Make use of her maneuverability. Fire broadside then turn to angle while your guns reload. You might need to train that a bit to get the timing right.

Make sure you rate her with all upgrades in place. The B hull impoves her AA considerably (but it is still weaker then german or US BBs) and reduces her rudder shift times. Upgrading the engine will bring her up to 25 knots.

 

Last but not least: Some players hate the Nagato with a passion. They never got her to work for them and were glad once they had the ability to switch. Others love her and can make her dance like a deadly sea fairy. It is a polarizing ship within the community so you will get comments of both parties. Don't judge her by those comments. Give her a real chance and she might surprise you in a positive way (or drive you into deep dispair).

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56 minutes ago, wtfzazo said:

Slow as balls, AA would be shameful at tier 4, no armor whatsoever (citadelled it with a Kaiser in a training room) , its huge health pool is targeted by the Cleveland on the enemy team which scratches hands while BBQ-ing you and having a nice meal... this all in a nice package of bad repair costs, in which its more like I lose than I gain money...

 

I lost a gunfight to a half-dead Minekaze which started a fire I couldn't repair...

 

Struggling to FEEL meaningful. My record in this ship is: 63k damage, which in Fuso and Kongo was my average. Even in Myogi I was able to do more!

 

Yes, I know how to aim. I did well in Kongo.

 

So this is what goes to that shame of the Japanese battleship line. I feel like Izumo would be better.

 

It is you.

Nagato is no Fuso. You have to make your shots count. Select your target carefully, aim carefully and learn to read and anticipate the flow of battle.

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1 hour ago, wtfzazo said:

Struggling to FEEL meaningful. My record in this ship is: 63k damage, which in Fuso and Kongo was my average. Even in Myogi I was able to do more!

 

Sorry to say, but your numbers you claim are not the reality:

 

YrwDJC6.jpg

 

Edit: omg forum? https://imgur.com/a/02IpU

 

You are doing bad overall in BBs. You might want to look for advice on how to play better.

 

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HI all,

 

59 minutes ago, wtfzazo said:

Slow as balls, AA would be shameful at tier 4, no armor whatsoever (citadelled it with a Kaiser in a training room) , its huge health pool is targeted by the Cleveland on the enemy team which scratches hands while BBQ-ing you and having a nice meal... this all in a nice package of bad repair costs, in which its more like I lose than I gain money...

 

I lost a gunfight to a half-dead Minekaze which started a fire I couldn't repair...

 

Struggling to FEEL meaningful. My record in this ship is: 63k damage, which in Fuso and Kongo was my average. Even in Myogi I was able to do more!

 

Yes, I know how to aim. I did well in Kongo.

 

So this is what goes to that shame of the Japanese battleship line. I feel like Izumo would be better.

 

 

Nagato is fantastic ship! :Smile_great:

 

You must learn how to use properly and she will reward you handsomely...

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

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1 hour ago, wtfzazo said:

Slow as balls, AA would be shameful at tier 4, no armor whatsoever (citadelled it with a Kaiser in a training room) , its huge health pool is targeted by the Cleveland on the enemy team which scratches hands while BBQ-ing you and having a nice meal... this all in a nice package of bad repair costs, in which its more like I lose than I gain money...

She is slow, but her AA is perfectly fine. It's just that the other tier VII battleships have an excessively powerful AA suite. Her armor is poor, but only compared to German battleships. Her armor is perfectly in line with ships like the Colorado and the KGV. Clevelands are also a minor nightmare for just about every tier VII battleship and her servicing cost is equal to all her contemporaries.

1 hour ago, wtfzazo said:

I lost a gunfight to a half-dead Minekaze which started a fire I couldn't repair...

Minekazes are slippery little bastards. The fact that you lost however likely implies that you were incredibly close to dead and had no friendly cruisers around after just eating a torpedo salvo from said Minekaze. You would likely have fared just as badly with a Colorado or a Hood. Worse in fact, as the Nagato has substantial torpedo damage reduction.

1 hour ago, wtfzazo said:

Struggling to FEEL meaningful. My record in this ship is: 63k damage, which in Fuso and Kongo was my average. Even in Myogi I was able to do more!

Actually according to your statistics you aren't that far behind on your Nagato. You lag behind the Fuso, but that's understandable because the Fuso is a brutal shotgun at her tier. The Nagato however requires somewhat more precision and her advantages does require a larger amount of familiarity with the ship lines so I could understand why you struggle. Transitioning from 12 guns to 8 guns isn't easy, especially when you're up against monsters like the Scharnhorst and the KGV. That said, let me try to sell you on the Nagato anyways.

 

410 mm Japanese guns have many tangible benefits over the guns that the Fuso mounts. As a Fuso, you are stuck with shooting broadsides of enemy ships. With the Nagato however, you can shoot at the bows of tier VI and VII battleships and you will cut clean through. Your larger and heavier shells also carry a bigger punch and significantly better accuracy. A Kaiser might be able to citadel you, but you can also citadel a Iowa. The Nagato is a ship that rewards aim and patience which makes her a difficult ship to master, but once mastered she is a formidable ship to be sure. Being able to aim well also means a different thing at tier VII than it does at tier V. Aiming well at tier V involves knowing how to lead a straight-lining ship to sink her. Aiming well at tier VII involves understanding the overmatching rules, knowing how the enemy armor is assembled, knowing where the strong and weak spots are, and knowing where you can cut through enemy armor and where you can't. For example, you'll want to aim for the waterline of another Nagato as that will mean you can land citadel hits but you want to aim at the midline of a Scharnhorst because hitting her citadels is all but impossible and you will do more damage if you try to get more shells into her side. A Fuso, as long as you lead correctly, has shells that will fetch you hits sooner or later. At tier 7 where your enemies will wriggle like eels on land, you need to relearn how to aim. She ship isn't worse, you're just facing stiffer competition and haven't acclimated.

1 hour ago, wtfzazo said:

So this is what goes to that shame of the Japanese battleship line. I feel like Izumo would be better.

The Izumo isn't irredeemable, but she's rather weak. The problems that are present on the Nagato are just as pronounced on the Izumo except you will face significantly more dangerous enemies like Kutozovs, Zaos, Hindenburgs, Henris, and various other high tiered assorted cruisers that will feast on your weaker plates. The nature of Japanese battleships means that you will need to learn to position well to get the most out of them. Don't lose hope though, the Yamato is a good ship and the Amagi is just about the best battleship of her tier. The fact that you want to improve already puts you far above the tomato masses. Stick with the Nagato and practice with her, and I'm sure she'll bring you many great games.

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49 minutes ago, cro_pwr said:

Its you.
Nagato is excellent BB. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

Indeed. And nothing more to say.

 

Besides, maybe, learn from the advices here: Use the fantastic guns of the Nagato in the right way. It is a fantastic ship!

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At least I am kinda happy people attack me when I am the last one surviving, because they (possibly?) think I am very good.

 

But I will try what you guys gave me as advice, and inform you of the result. Thanks!

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Nagato is a good ship. If you don't like her, pretty much all other BBs at her tier are worse, the KGV is weird. If she isn't stock, the speed should be fine. You are coming from Fusou, so that speed should not be news. AA is not going to scare away same tier carriers, but it still is not laughable. Perfectly fine for tier VII, it can shred lower tier planes and shoot down 1-2 per attack and more you hopefully did not expect from an IJN BB. Armour is perfectly average too and like with all IJN before it, show broadside, get citadelled, angle and you are among the tankiest in your tier. If you struggle with these things, you likely are in the wrong BB line (for AA) or in the wrong class of ship (for every other complaint brought up).

 

As for gunnery, yes, I know, it needs some time to get used to it. I transitioned to Nagato from the Germans and I needed to learn again how to aim, because Germans are practically easy-mode, click and pray to RNGesus. Either get an overpen against a broadside CA at 10 km or get a triple citadel devastating strike against a head-on CV at max range. And shell velocity is also different. But once I got accustomed to the slower shells again, you really can actually aim with Nagato and it pays off. The reload is pretty meh and the number of guns too, but you can punch through broadside battleships, bow-on battleships, every cruiser you likely meet, wreck unlucky DDs...consistently. If you lost a fight against a Cleveland, I doubt any silver BB except the KGV would have fared better.

 

Also, for armour, depending on range, Kaiser (or any low-tier BB with acceptable AP shells) can likely citadel any BB broadside on, except those where the citadel is covered by turtleback armour, like Germans and the Amagi. The tankiness of most non-Germans comes not from being immune to broadside citadels, but from getting the right angle and in a 1v1 a Nagato just shits on a Kaiser (as should be the case with tier VII vs IV), because the Nagato can just angle away and get penetrations on the Kaiser regardless of how that ship angles, while the sole hope of the Kaiser can be landing shots on the superstructure (as Nagato will bounce shells off belt and stern/bow). Nagato also has great turret angles, forward, but especially firing over the shoulder against pursuing enemies.

52 minutes ago, dasCKD said:

For example, you'll want to aim for the waterline of another Nagato as that will mean you can land citadel hits but you want to aim at the midline of a Scharnhorst because hitting her citadels is all but impossible and you will do more damage if you try to get more shells into her side.

Honestly, in my experience, if a German BB present a good broadside target, regardless of the height of the belt you aim at, you likely penetrate, because even the silly strong German armour will need some angle to bounce (though that angle can be very lenient). If they are angled, it is best to try land shots on their upper bow/stern or straight aim for superstructure (which might knock out guns too and Bismarck and up will bounce shots at the bow). Even against Scharnhorst/Gneisenau, shooting at the bow can be sketchy, because at the waterline it's 60 mm thick. Thankfully Nagato has the accuracy to aim higher. And the only time when your penetration is no longer sufficient to go through (almost) flat broadside of Germans is when you are far enough away that if you even hit the area you aimed for, the shells come down plunging and you can get lucky citadels through the deck. Having been on both sides of the fight Gneisenau vs Nagato, the Nagato has way better cards.

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23 minutes ago, principat121 said:

How is your ship equiped? And your captain trained?

 

He are mine (as a suggestion), as I love this ship so much I even spend her the premium camo!

https://imgur.com/a/81euO

 

Mine is mostly the same, except that I've got Incoming fire alert and not Adrenaline rush. I do not use premium consumables because I hardly manage to get any income, even with flags (For income I mostly use my Warspite, which might be just as derpy but I enjoy playing it) I've also gotten the accuracy module (As I said I hardly manage any income of about 50K per battle, and I don't want to spend money. Plus I've gotten 18 millions, and want to remain with about 7 after bying Amagi)

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2 hours ago, Egoleter said:
  • The ship isn't slow (You will absolutly hate the Colorado if you think the Nagato is slow).

I played the original Colrado, before all the buffs. It was just a pile of crap.

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4 minutes ago, 22cm said:

I played the original Colrado, before all the buffs. It was just a pile of crap.

Oh hell, I'd rather have somewhat existent armor (And what to angle at tier 7+? if I'm in any tier 7 BB except gneisenau and scharny, everyone can citadel me through the bow)

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1 minute ago, wtfzazo said:

Plus I've gotten 18 millions, and want to remain with about 7 after bying Amagi

 

Why?

 

Why do you want to advance to tier8, when you already struggle to maintain your ships?! In toptier-matches premium-consumables are almost mandatory and you earn much less and pay a higher service maintenance. You will have even harder times then now!

 

So, there is no reason to be so hasty!


Better to learn the game mechanics and the very how-to-play in the mid-tier range. Stay in tiers 5-7. Equip your ships well, learn to play better and thus you will earn more credits and experience. And on this basics you can go to higher tiers.

 

Ofc, noone is denying you from playing high tiers, but be aware that you will be just another noob that got farmed on a regulary basis.

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Nagato is one of the best T7 BB. Either you’re sniping too much and can’t hit jack is you overextend..

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I have a Kaiser (the one I took and citadelled a Nagato in, during a training session) which I can use to teach myself, but there I do one ton of damage and feel like a king. I did the best in Fuso probably, but Fuso has 12 shells - hell, no need to aim at all... In Nagato I actually had one week or so where I was rather consistent and had 75-80k games. Is it because I (possibly) said myself ''Hell I am the best now I don't need to try hard anymore'' or I am just bad and should never think of advancing to the higher tiers? It all started because I couldn't stand Myogi, so I speed-grinded and didn't stop in time? Why do I want Amagi? It's more well-armored (its bow is basically unovermatchable by anything but 16-inch, I believe) and it actually moves along, plus it has 10 guns. Yeah, it will be probably more difficult facing the Lolpen machine, I know.

 

Or the third variant is just that I haven't spent enough time learning the Japanese? I started them, because it's a fact Yamato's guns are ultimate and I always wanted Yamato.

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4 minutes ago, wtfzazo said:

I have a Kaiser (the one I took and citadelled a Nagato in, during a training session) which I can use to teach myself, but there I do one ton of damage and feel like a king.

 

Must be your feeling only, because u have 25+% less avg dmg with Kaiser than with Nagato and Fuso

https://wows-numbers.com/de/player/531399858,wtfzazo/

 

4 minutes ago, wtfzazo said:

I did the best in Fuso probably, but Fuso has 12 shells - hell, no need to aim at all... In Nagato I actually had one week or so where I was rather consistent and had 75-80k games. Is it because I (possibly) said myself ''Hell I am the best now I don't need to try hard anymore'' or I am just bad and should never think of advancing to the higher tiers? It all started because I couldn't stand Myogi, so I speed-grinded and didn't stop in time? Why do I want Amagi? It's more well-armored (its bow is basically unovermatchable by anything but 16-inch, I believe) and it actually moves along, plus it has 10 guns. Yeah, it will be probably more difficult facing the Lolpen machine, I know.

 

Id say the higher u get, the better u need to time your shots. Shooting an angles Cruiser on the bow might give u 5-10k damage, depending on luck, but maybe the same cruiser is turning broadside 5 secs later and u can double citadel him for 25k damage. But this gets even more true for BBs, when shooting angled BBs might aswell only result in 1 overpen to the superstructure, while getting a full broadside on them can hurt them.

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10 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

Must be your feeling only, because u have 25+% less avg dmg with Kaiser than with Nagato and Fuso

 

On top of that - he is worse then the avarage player. And we all know how good avarage is.

 

25 minutes ago, wtfzazo said:

I have a Kaiser (the one I took and citadelled a Nagato in, during a training session) which I can use to teach myself, but there I do one ton of damage and feel like a king.

 

28,5k avarage damage in a T4 BB is far from beeing a "king". Just FYI - I have 69k avg in my T4 BB... You need to understand, that there is something wrong with you. Not with the ship. Cant make it any clearer.

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20 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

You need to understand, that there is something wrong with you. Not with the ship. Cant make it any clearer.

There is nothing wrong with him. At best there is something wrong in how he plays his ships. And coming to the forums seeking advice is a good first step to improve on that.

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Can I just ask you to post your captain build and modules? 

Also, just an idea - start using premium heal and damage control 

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