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DFens_666

Fix the Game or the Ribbons

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Im not sure if the game gets constantly worse or the ribbons seem to get more weird all the time, but its totaly frustrating.

What is also weird is that Fiji (one of my most played ships) i start to have the biggest problems with the penetration damage. Today 2 matches Fiji, and i get like robbed 30-40% of the Pen damage (which is a huge amount imo)

Here the 2 examples:

shot-17_12.22_14_06.21-0834.thumb.jpg.354439bb345e2f0343c3f7b71eb5e25b.jpgshot-17_12.22_14_06.29-0434.thumb.jpg.07151bc1a26fee8ed82ca694eef92a59.jpg

 

So i made  44.332 damage with guns. The Citadel is probably only like 1~k damage, because he was very low at that hit, so we can dismiss it from the calculation.

8 Overpens are 2480 damage, so we can substract them, which leaves 41.852 damage for Penetrations. 65 Penetrations should equal 66.495 damage.

So im missing 24.643 damage roughly, a bit less most likely because at some point half damage penetrations do happen certainly. But to the game on hand we were 2 man Fiji division, and we both were shooting the Gneisenau/Scharnhorst. While my Division mate did like 6k salvoes, mine were 3k... With equal amounts of penetrations! Earlier i had no problems with this, but since a couple of months it gets to a point were its unbearable to play that ship. Basicly had to quit play Fiji :Smile_sad:

Btw that Cleveland 33 hits for not even 6k damage, he was angled yes, but i aimed at the superstructure and i did get more than 6 pens worth of damage on him.

 

shot-17_12.22_16_11.23-0035.thumb.jpg.ed8a5c2e6f7d6ffa0062d984e93be57d.jpg

 

shot-17_12.22_16_11.31-0065.thumb.jpg.6c12846fb2d1a1a2707aabe5ffeda144.jpg

 

2nd example: 40.324 damage by guns. 4 Oveprens = 1240 damage which leaves us with 39.084 damage for the penetrations. 69 Penetrations worth of damage is 70.587 damage, so im missing 31.503 damage, even more than in the first match. We are approaching the 50% mark! (45%)

Algerie takes the cake, same division again 2 Fijis he is broadside to us, my divmate did 7-8k salvos, mine again like <3k.. Best salvo was 11 penetrations, which should be more damage than i made total on him. Saturation can hardly be an issue there on the center broadside. (btw yes, the DD ate all 3 torps for 7100 damage lol)

 

I mean, everyone gets 0 damage pens, sure there can be an explanation about ribbon bugs. But >35%? Almost 50%? How? Why? Is it me? I could understand against angled targets, but mostly i target broadside, unless i dont have anything else, or the threat is too high, then u gotta take the angled ship. But as i said, mostly broadsides in both games.

 

If its a bug then PLEASE fix it somehow. Its totaly frustrating at this rate. But on the other hand as i mentioned its mainly Fiji the problem. Neptune is ok for me, but there is also a higher ROF so it might not seem that bad that u would notice.

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23 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

If its a bug then PLEASE fix it somehow.

 

It's not.

Destroying modules such as secondary and AA guns as well as turret and barbette penetrations will be shown as penetrations but will not actually deal damage as whatever module you're destroying simply "eats" the shell.

Cleve for example has a [edited]-load of AA and secondary guns surrounding her superstructure, therefore you have a high chance of hitting said guns and get 0 damage penetrations.

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One beautiful thing about playing a BB rather than a CA / CL or even a DD is that you can track your shells , their hits and damage way more easily.

 

Half-damage pens, even on full hp targets, for some reason are a thing.

Tin foil hats on boys - almost like sometimes game is holding you back, not allowing you to perform to your full potential :cap_viking:

 

0 dmg pens should be HE on spaced armour or AP penetrating a "non-damaging zone" like, for example, turrets and barbettes or damage depleted zones. Sadly enough you still can score 0 dmg pens on damageable zones aswell, if the game decides so.

 

3 minutes ago, Quetak said:

saturation

problem solved

 

let me quote 2 points to you

30 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

While my Division mate did like 6k salvoes, mine were 3k... With equal amounts of penetrations!

 

30 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

my divmate did 7-8k salvos, mine again like <3k

 

You see, saturation would affect both players at the same time, and only when the area is saturated. A full HP target is not saturated, yet you still can score 0 dmg / half dmg hits on it where they should have been a full damage penetrations.

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2 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

let me quote 2 points to you

so El2aZeR's version

 

sry mate I see 0 penetrations same as we all see them :cap_wander: Maybe try some training room with friend who can track also modules (secondaries ect.) if they broke when you hit for 0 dmg.

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8 minutes ago, Quetak said:

saturation

problem solved

 

impossible.

I did perfect fine hits on same target at same time.

problem not solved...

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4 minutes ago, Quetak said:

saturation

problem solved

 

On Full health targets aswell?... As i stated, my division mate did not have those problems. Also u can tell if the area is saturated if its black - sure sometimes it is, i admit that, but not that to extend. Also i tend to deal more 0 damage pens than half pen damage. I can check the replay and give u the numbers if u like.

 

2 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

It's not.

Destroying modules such as secondary and AA guns as well as turret and barbette penetrations will be shown as penetrations but will not actually deal damage as whatever module you're destroying simply "eats" the shell.

Cleve for example has a [edited]-load of AA and secondary guns surrounding her superstructure, therefore you have a high chance of hitting said guns and get 0 damage penetrations.

 

Actually i think WG admitted that Pen ribbons can be bugged. So would be good to now to which amount it is actually bugged, if its the truth. Modules yes ofc can be, but as i mentioned also, some months ago i had no prob dealing 6-7k salvoes on Gneisenau/Nagato whatever. Nowadays? Nope, cant do it. No matter how much shells i land on the target.

Also as i mentioned Algerie: Doesnt have Modules on its broadside - Broadside wasnt saturated, wasnt black.

 

There might be an explanation for most stuff, but all the time? Nope...

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9 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

Actually i think WG admitted that Pen ribbons can be bugged.

 

I think that was along the lines of for example overpens dealing more damage than they should.

 

9 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

Modules yes ofc can be, but as i mentioned also, some months ago i had no prob dealing 6-7k salvoes on Gneisenau/Nagato whatever. Nowadays? Nope, cant do it. No matter how much shells i land on the target.

 

Afaik nothing has changed in that regard. Personally I can still do the same with my Mino on higher tier BBs.

 

9 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

Also as i mentioned Algerie: Doesnt have Modules on its broadside - Broadside wasnt saturated, wasnt black.

 

Probably has something to do with the spaced armor French cruisers have. Perhaps penetrating only the outer layer does no damage, like with the torp bulges on some other ships.

 

I mean, I could be wrong but personally I haven't observed any big discrepancies.

Then again with the amount of bugs WG seems to introduce with every patch anything is possible.

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10 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

Probably has something to do with the spaced armor French cruisers have

+ shorter timer on RN AP fuse so it arms too fast and doesnt reach "damagable section" maybe? 

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22 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

Destroying modules such as secondary and AA guns as well as turret and barbette penetrations will be shown as penetrations but will not actually deal damage as whatever module you're destroying simply "eats" the shell.

 

Possible, but:

First - it does show up if you incapacitate modules, like AA / Torpedotubes / w.e. Now ofc, if you only partially damaged the module and did not destroy it - not sure how that shows up.

which brings me to:

Second - If you incapacitate bigger modules (torpedotubes, engine and rudder im sure), they dont show up as penetration. Im 99% sure of that. Often my first shots are DDs and my usual lucks brings me 0 dmg but 2 incapacitations. Happens all the time. My ribbon count then states something like: 0 hits, 0 dmg, 1 defended, 2 Incapacitations.

 

Just now, Quetak said:

+ shoter timer on RN AP fuse so they arm too fast and dont reach "damagable section" maybe? 

 

again, doesnt explain what happened here cuz <-- Fiji aswell.

 

10 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

Probably has something to do with the spaced armor French cruisers have. Perhaps penetrating only the outer layer does no damage, like with the torp bulges on some other ships.

 

French cruisers do have a blackhole in their sides, thats true tho...

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7 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

I think that was along the lines of for example overpens dealing more damage than they should.

 

I would understand those: overpen a section continue to detonate somewhere else = Overpen + Pen damage. Double pen or Pen + Citadel damage is questionable ofc. But i was under the impression Ribbons themselves are bugged aka not showing the currect ribbon when it should have been something else.

 

7 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

Afaik nothing has changed in that regard. Personally I can still do the same with my Mino on higher tier BBs.

 

Yes as i said, i mostly struggle with Fiji.

 

7 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

Probably has something to do with the spaced armor French cruisers have. Perhaps penetrating only the outer layer does no damage, like with the torp bulges on some other ships.

 

I mean, I could be wrong but personally I haven't observed any big discrepancies.

Then again with the amount of bugs WG seems to introduce with every patch anything is possible.

 

I Admit that i seem to have problems with dealing damage on French Cruisers - but why is the Fiji standing right next to me doing double the damage then?

I looked at the replay (2nd one) and the damage against Gneisenau/Fuso is mostly ok id say. Minor discrepancies. DD is a bit weird in the beginning, but he is in smoke so hard to say where i land the 2nd salvo which consists of 4 pen + overpen (same as first salvo) but does less damage than the first one.

So i didnt destroy any modules (one main turret, but no AA/secondaries) so not sure if they can survive the damage? Or question: How unlucky would i need to be :Smile_trollface:

5a3d5560235ca_Algerie1.thumb.jpg.81acedc80f3a49183eea4969507895df.jpg

 

Damage could only be from 5x 1/2 pen damage + the overpen. Basicly he was full health tho, so saturation? I cant find how much health does Superstructure have (other FIji salvo is 6k same spot)

 

5a3d556676df4_Algerie2.thumb.jpg.8ee3dba975f673d0120a445804314e79.jpg

 

3x512 would be explanation, if saturation.

 

5a3d556c13f4c_Algerie3.thumb.jpg.b91e43e0c664a4beeaaa1ffcbe947604.jpg

 

One of the best LOL 7 Pens 1024 damage? Missing 5 pens here min.

 

5a3d5571b2060_Algerie4.thumb.jpg.3ef5cac53487a0596b0a587208c35945.jpg

 

11 pens - 1 pen for the Turret (if it deals 0 damage, i know it can deal damage tho)

10 pens for 4608 damage ? totaly weird.

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12 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

again, doesnt explain what happened here cuz <-- Fiji aswell.

in YT video about spaced armor it seems like there is some RNG also (more armor layers - more impact angle checks) and even small change in aim can make different results. You cant say that you both aimed exactly same. But I am not saying that there cant be bug...it definitely can.

I think only WG with detailed analysis can tell us where is the truth.

Spoiler

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Quetak said:

You cant say that you both aimed exactly same. But I am not saying that there cant be bug...it definitely can.

 

Yea, ofc everybody aims & hits a little bit different. Funny enough, we are really close to each other in that example. I think im gonna run my replay later and add the screens from my hits for the lols. Then again, there is no real guarentee that what we see is really whats happening. @wilkatis_LV was doing some testing about that lately - do you already have results btw?

 

8 minutes ago, Quetak said:

I think only WG with detailed analysis can tell us where is the truth.

 

So we will never know. :cap_fainting:

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20 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

@wilkatis_LV was doing some testing about that lately - do you already have results btw?

Sorry, was working over the week, and tonight with the RB starting I'm having a few games of that. Results will be here tomorrow :cap_like:

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So here would be the screens with my damage. Looking at it now, I also count like 4 pens that did 0 dmg - salvo 2 and salvo 4. But not as bad as D-Fens I´d say.

algerie 001.jpg

algerie 002.jpg

algerie 003.jpg

algerie 004.jpg

algerie 005.jpg

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16 hours ago, Quetak said:

+ shorter timer on RN AP fuse so it arms too fast and doesnt reach "damagable section" maybe? 

 

Yep, definetely this after testing. Broadside was pretty much not damageable, alltho it got saturated? Probably did some damage to it sometimes, also not sure if the range might change something about it. I was standing very close.shot-17_12.23_13_19.01-0364.thumb.jpg.c82999dfe69d7fff76c9f27f49e225bc.jpg

 

Citadel can only be hit under front turrets. (that i knew, i try to aim there usually) All the way to the back turrets i did mostly 0 damage, sometimes i did normal pen or half pen damage. Saturation also kicked in very fast, i hit 1 citadel (which doesnt belong to the midsection afaik), and after dealing 3x1023 damage, i managed to get 3 pens for 2489 damage, and the midsection became black. Seems to be pretty fast imo, i wonder if its correct after i scored like 40-50 0 damage pens. 

Damage saturation after 5k damage? :cap_hmm:

 

Still have to look at the first game, there was no french Cruiser in it :Smile-_tongue:

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@ForlornSailor @DFens_666 I went through the footage and screenshots - all the shell groupings, splash patterns & positioning and hits match, so we can safely assume that we get to see correct tracers in-game :cap_like: Once again thanks for the help with this one!

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1 hour ago, wilkatis_LV said:

I went through the footage and screenshots - all the shell groupings, splash patterns & positioning and hits match, so we can safely assume that we get to see correct tracers in-game :cap_like: Once again thanks for the help with this one!

 

Thanks for the time you put into reasearching. Now atleast this mystery is solved and I can retire one of my several tin-foil-hats :D

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