Mangrey Beta Tester, Players 628 posts 11,995 battles Report post #1 Posted December 17, 2017 Hey The 11 inch. really need a boost... most 8inch. are way better in pene, reload and spread the two ships where sold as cruiser hunters, but in fact most othere ships will sink graf spee easy Scharnhorst is abit harder to sink but it struggle to damage BBs(as it suppose to) and Cruisers with the high spread and long fuse in APs it mostly over pene same and lower tir Cruisers it cant pene higher onces. Some changes to the shells would be nice, I Dont mind the bad spread but the overpene on the low tirs and bounce and none pens on higher onces. Mang 1 1 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[CATS] ColonelPete Players 14,636 posts 10,869 battles Report post #2 Posted December 17, 2017 Scharnhorst is fine. I am always suprised how much damage her AP does to BB. Spees problem is the low fire rate with only six guns. Vs cruisers she can land devasting hits. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[BYOB] Aragathor Players 3,061 posts 11,002 battles Report post #3 Posted December 17, 2017 Scharnhorst rewards careful aiming, a 9 gun broadside into a BBs superstructure every 20s is an equal to other ship's broadsides at tier. Graf Spee is a different beast, she rewards knowing when to use all of her consumables and weapons. A good player in a Spee is a nightmare to the enemy, as he can heal, wreck cruisers, ambush BBs with great torps (the angles are incredible), and the weakness against DDs can be mitigated with secondaries and hydro. But an average player will have a bad time in this ship. PS: At tier 6 the Graf Spee is the best cruiser by win rate and avg. damage. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[NWP] Negativvv [NWP] Players 8,104 posts 11,620 battles Report post #4 Posted December 17, 2017 OP needs to get closer.... Scharnhorst guns perform pretty much like any other BB gun at 10km or less. I smell a BB sniper maybe? Spee is somewhat sucky as you only get 6 guns and poor armour. Fun to play now and again but not all that competitive. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[CATS] ColonelPete Players 14,636 posts 10,869 battles Report post #5 Posted December 17, 2017 Even sniping at max range the Scharnhorst can do 8k salvos vs BB. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[BYOB] Aragathor Players 3,061 posts 11,002 battles Report post #6 Posted December 17, 2017 8 minutes ago, Negativvv said: Spee is somewhat sucky Spee needs a 19p captain to really shine, even a 10p captain is not enough to cover every base. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[HMSR] Major_Damage225 Beta Tester 1,838 posts 6,133 battles Report post #7 Posted December 17, 2017 If Sharny would get a boost to her accuracy she would be a bit OP, i think both Spee and Scharnhorst are verry goos ships (i suck in mine but that's my ltp issue ) Spee played right can downright murder cruisers and give big headakes to BB's, Scharnhorst is juts a perfect blend of armor, gun power, shes got good secondaries, if someone wants to hug she has her fish, ive seen one too many times a good Scharnhorst devestate a team. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rvfharrier Weekend Tester 769 posts 3,524 battles Report post #8 Posted December 17, 2017 The Scharnhorst is one of the best ships pound-for-pound in the game, its guns will never get the sort of 'real' BB volleys that its peers will but that doesn't matter one bit. The combination of rate of fire, secondaries, speed and torpedoes just make it an absolute beast in close-mid range combat, the only area it suffers is the one which it should never find itself in which is long range sniping. Graf Spee never really did it for me though, unlike the Scharnhorst I just didn't find it to be a platform to adequately make the guns work. Still not bad though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ollonborre Beta Tester 1,339 posts 5,176 battles Report post #9 Posted December 17, 2017 The Spees problem is primarily lack of DPM and low gun count. Having a potentially high salvo does not really matter so much if the accuracy is still wonky and if you fail to do significant damage you can and often will be in a lot of trouble since you just can't retaliate fast enough. But apart from the rate of fire and low shell count, there is nothing wrong per se with the guns. When the Spee gets in a midrange position and you get a standard battle where you have the time to fire multiple salvoes it can rack up som nice numbers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[NWP] DFens_666 Players 3,523 posts 5,859 battles Report post #10 Posted December 18, 2017 2 hours ago, Aragathor said: Spee needs a 19p captain to really shine, even a 10p captain is not enough to cover every base. For me Graf Spee works best in division. GrafSpee + some other Cruiser (Leander f.e.), makes a good combo. U have protection vs DDs (which the graf spee has probs dealing with), can kill Cruisers fast and can engage BBs better despite having not so awesome armor, but still better than other Cruiser. Usually im cursing a lot when i used to play the GrafSpee, even when my results werent bad... but the low number of guns with bad reload just can be frustrating sometimes. Every salvo has to count! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GhostRider_24 Players 750 posts 2,987 battles Report post #11 Posted December 18, 2017 Nothing wrong with the Scharnhorst ;) lovely BB 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[BABBY] BlackYeti Players 272 posts 6,384 battles Report post #12 Posted December 18, 2017 Scharn is simply awesome. I'm using the Aiming Systems Mod on all German BBs except Bismarck with good results because secondaries are overrated IMO. Spee is subject to heavy RNG like all the other ships with low barrel count and that's what makes her painful at times. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[-T-O-] _DeathWing_ Alpha Tester, Players, In AlfaTesters 2,126 posts 5,880 battles Report post #13 Posted December 18, 2017 Scharnhorst works like a charm. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[NWP] Mr_Tayto Players 728 posts 6,272 battles Report post #14 Posted December 18, 2017 Scharnhorst is an excellent brawler and will surprise almost anything with its damage dealing at close range. She was my first premium when I didn't understand how KM BBs worked but when it clicked... She was also the first ship in which I realised that lobbing HE when you know you don't have a hope of penning someone (at above brawling range for BBs) was viable. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SHDRKN4792 Players 1,806 posts 5,762 battles Report post #15 Posted December 18, 2017 The only thing I don't understand of Graf Spee and Scharnhorst guns is... same caliber, same HE shells... but then Graf Spee has better AP shells than Scharnhorst. Hmmmmm.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[NWP] DFens_666 Players 3,523 posts 5,859 battles Report post #16 Posted December 18, 2017 11 minutes ago, SHDRKN4792 said: The only thing I don't understand of Graf Spee and Scharnhorst guns is... same caliber, same HE shells... but then Graf Spee has better AP shells than Scharnhorst. Hmmmmm.... I could only see it from a balancing point of view. Same reload but less guns. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[BYOB] Aragathor Players 3,061 posts 11,002 battles Report post #17 Posted December 18, 2017 13 minutes ago, SHDRKN4792 said: The only thing I don't understand of Graf Spee and Scharnhorst guns is... same caliber, same HE shells... but then Graf Spee has better AP shells than Scharnhorst. Hmmmmm.... 1 minute ago, DFens_666 said: I could only see it from a balancing point of view. Same reload but less guns. It is balancing as Scharnhorst had the improved 28cm SK C/34 gun, while the Spee had the older 28cm SK C/28. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[HAERT] BeauNidl3 Players 2,101 posts Report post #18 Posted December 18, 2017 I enjoy the Scharnhorst and treat it a bit like a big cruiser, it's also one of the best looking ships in the game. Graf Spee I find a bit meh, it plays OK, but there's nothing to make me like it very much and the reload with few guns makes it uninspiring. It's rather dull. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[BABBY] BlackYeti Players 272 posts 6,384 battles Report post #19 Posted December 18, 2017 12 minutes ago, Aragathor said: It is balancing as Scharnhorst had the improved 28cm SK C/34 gun, while the Spee had the older 28cm SK C/28. That said, I think AGS would be more user friendly with weaker shells (6800-7000) and faster reload (~16s). At least the gameplay would be closer to heavy cruiser this way. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[BYOB] Aragathor Players 3,061 posts 11,002 battles Report post #20 Posted December 18, 2017 7 minutes ago, BlackYeti said: That said, I think AGS would be more user friendly with weaker shells (6800-7000) and faster reload (~16s). At least the gameplay would be closer to heavy cruiser this way. The SK C/34 had a reload of 17s historically. But these were on the Scharnhorst. I think the current compromise is ok, not great but still better than the alternatives. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mucker Players 842 posts 8,386 battles Report post #21 Posted December 18, 2017 23 hours ago, Mangrey said: Hey The 11 inch. really need a boost... most 8inch. are way better in pene, reload and spread This is false. The only 8" that comes close is that of the Zao, which just falls short of AGS pen numbers. SH is significantly better still. The only cruisers that can match and slightly surpass SH are Moskva and HenryIV, both with bigger calibers than 8". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
