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Paliats0s_

My thoughts for Musashi.

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Hello fellow captains.

 

From the moment i heard the stats of Musashi i have a very difficult time understanding the logic behind the design of Japanese premium ships.

 

First of all: Why is not at Tier X? 

I know that they don't want Tier X premiums, but that went off with Salem-Stalingrad. If they want to make it hard to get they can sell it with 1500000 free xp and 1500000 Elite commander xp.

 

Second : I asked why they downgrade it so mush.

IT will always be at tier X fights (even in bottom tier you will have overpens on tier 7 ships -see mutsu-). The answer was that it will be the Same as the Yamato and there will be no point of making an identical ship!!.....:fish_boom:

Why they dint downgrade Missouri then??, you can have same class, same tier premium with a lot of differences (exp Missouri, prince-Eugen, Tirpitz, Scharnhorst, Murmansk, etc)

 

Third: Why all premium IJN BBs are downgrade of existing tier and basically BAD SHIPS( Mutsu, Ashitaka,Isizuchi,) is this some kind of trend in Japanese bbs?

 

 

It will be a shame if the make a bad ship from Musashi

 

Has anyone here have same thoughts? or i am overreacting??

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1. Stalingrad is a reward ship, Salem will probably be one too (but who am I to speculate) - so you don't actually pay for these (be it with real money, doubloons or free XP), you earn them

 

2. Downgraded to fit into T9, classic wargaming

 

3. Because wargaming (ez money boi)

 

Would be nice to see Musashi as a T10 premium but I don't think it will happen, due to wargaming's policy on obtainable T10 premiums

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The information I have are weeks, maybe even months, old. So who knows what changed in the mean time.

As for what we know so far... It seems like WG wants to release a IJN free exp premium which makes sense. The Musashi is actually a good choice because it is one of the more famous ones. However, they don't want to release tier X premium ships that can be bought directly. The limit for this is tier VIII so far and you just can't make her tier VIII material. So it is either tier IX, e.g. as a free exp ship which will bring some money for WG, or tier X as a reward ship for ranked battles, CW or therelike which will bring no direct money for WG. As far as I know, Salem and Stalingrad are the latter which explains why they are on tier X. I guess putting the Musashi on tier X as a free exp ship won't sell that well because there is a difference between paying for 750k free exp (about 100€) and paying for 1,5kk free exp (about 200€) for a single ship.

For why they downgrade it... Why they probably choose tier IX see above. The tier IX, logically, should have drawbacks compared to the tier X but I agree that putting the 460 mm one tier lower already is kind of a downgrade, especially coupled with worse sigma and reload time besides other things like non-existing AA, probably worse secondary battery, etc. But I find the early fit of the Yamato class still interesting.

The Missouri wasn't downgraded because it essentially is an Iowa which we currently have at tier IX already. There was just no need to put her on tier VIII.

Is every IJN premium BB really just a bad ship? I tend to disagree but I can't speak for the newer ones. The Ishizuchi IMO is good. The Mutsu is good. Mikasa is a special case and needs some love.

 

So, I share some of your concerns for I, too, don't want the Musashi to be a bad ship. But keep in mind that there were no news so we have no idea what the current state is. Maybe they turned her into a radar-carrying, hydro-searching, DefAA uber-machine. Who knows, we are speaking about WG after all.

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Also keep in mind that the Stalingrad won't have a premium credit multiplier. 

 

Sure, the idea to fit her at t9 is stupid, but let us wait and see how her final stats will look. 

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I think next Free XP ship should be a cruiser, rather than Battleship.

 

But, yes. Currently in order do fit in tier.9, they have to make it weaker by quite a bit. You always feel, when something like that have happened.

 

 

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Same reason there is a premium Nagato at t6 and Amagi at t7 (and of course Amagi 2.0 at t8, which is still worse than silver)

WG doesn't know how to make Japanese premiums without downgrading and downtiering them. It's a shame that Musashi is going to continue the trend and probably not be worth the buy.

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1 hour ago, dCK_Ad_Hominem said:

Also keep in mind that the Stalingrad won't have a premium credit multiplier. 

 

Sure, the idea to fit her at t9 is stupid, but let us wait and see how her final stats will look. 

 

what no premium credit multiplier? what is the point of it then?

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1 hour ago, Paliats0s_ said:

 Why all premium IJN BBs are downgrade of existing tier and basically BAD SHIPS( Mutsu, Ashitaka,Isizuchi,) is this some kind of trend in Japanese bbs?

 

 

Because WG had spare stock hulls available which they had removed from the tech tree so time ago. So they bought them back as sister ships of the original, to lure us to part with cold hard cash.

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44 minutes ago, robihr said:

 

what no premium credit multiplier? what is the point of it then?

 

 

beeing really unique and probably strong as f

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Just sell Musashi as a tier X, with some tunning (+secondaries but - AA) sell it for 750k-1M free xp BUT you need to have Yamato, so potential money from people who free xp the line and we dont have a crippled ship.

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44 minutes ago, Gojuadorai said:

 

 

beeing really unique and probably strong as f

 

unique? isnt it more or less just another moskva? i already have moskva so i dont see much appeal in unique skinned moskva with slightly different stats... except for bragging rights...

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23 minutes ago, Migulaitor said:

Just sell Musashi as a tier X, with some tunning (+secondaries but - AA) sell it for 750k-1M free xp BUT you need to have Yamato, so potential money from people who free xp the line and we dont have a crippled ship.

The Musashi in the current configuration really belongs on tier 9 as her 4 X 3 155m secondaries and AA guns of a tier 7 BB makes her far too weak to be placed as a tier 10. In reality the only 2 things that makes Yamato a tier 10 is her high sigma, low dispersion LOL pen guns and massive secondaries/AA 127mm batteries which aren't that great either as she is the most easily citadelled of the tier 10 BBs when she ventures in too close to the action and also due to the massive size she suffers from taking more HE hits and thus takes more fire damage.

It will be the same for the Mushasi only that the only thing she will have going for her is the LOL pen guns and ok'ish 155mm secondayr battery. I can't see her being a good ship unless in the hands of good players and low skill players will probably struggle with her.

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16 minutes ago, robihr said:

 

unique? isnt it more or less just another moskva? i already have moskva so i dont see much appeal in unique skinned moskva with slightly different stats... except for bragging rights...

Bragging rights dude, kind of a "team" Jolly Roger I guess.

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A "stock" Musashi will have two things going for her: the tag of a Yamato class BB, and her guns. The first thing will make all wallet warriors buy her, the guns (with increased rng) will make those score more lucky hits, by preventing veteran/skilled players from playing the Musashi like a tier 9 Yamato, simply with less AAA.

The idea of a Yamato stock-hull is tempting, and considering the size, maneuverability and lack of AAA, a place at tier 9 appears to be justified, maybe even the increased reload of the main batteries, but increasing the lottery aspect on a lottery ship, which completly relies on his main armament to be of any use for the player and its team, smells wrong...

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33 minutes ago, G01ngToxicCommand0 said:

The Musashi in the current configuration really belongs on tier 9 as her 4 X 3 155m secondaries and AA guns of a tier 7 BB makes her far too weak to be placed as a tier 10. In reality the only 2 things that makes Yamato a tier 10 is her high sigma, low dispersion LOL pen guns and massive secondaries/AA 127mm batteries which aren't that great either as she is the most easily citadelled of the tier 10 BBs when she ventures in too close to the action and also due to the massive size she suffers from taking more HE hits and thus takes more fire damage.

It will be the same for the Mushasi only that the only thing she will have going for her is the LOL pen guns and ok'ish 155mm secondayr battery. I can't see her being a good ship unless in the hands of good players and low skill players will probably struggle with her.

The Yamato class only ever got 1 upgrade: AA overhaul. This required the removal of 2 of those old Mogami turrets.

 

The armor, fire-control systems, aiming systems and other was never changed.

 

The only difference between the ships was the layout of a few small caliber AA guns. Looks closely at the 1944 upgraded ships, it possible to spot them.

 

This is why we don't want fictional downgrades.

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35 minutes ago, robihr said:

unique? isnt it more or less just another moskva? i already have moskva so i dont see much appeal in unique skinned moskva with slightly different stats... except for bragging rights...

yep same minds :P

 

as for musashi , rather t9 , then t10

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I honestly don't get the Musashi's appeal in the game's scope. 

 

Why spend the equivalent free xp to basically get the Yamato on the watered down version of the Yamato? 

Credits? 

 

You'll get more credits just grinding the free xp than you'll get playing a gimped Yammie on T9, unless you play it hundreds of battles. 

 

Just spend the grind on a ship marathon to get a free T6 or T7, and use your free xp on the Missouri. 

Failing that, on stock ships you're grinding in order to save your sanity. 

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4 hours ago, Paliats0s_ said:

Hello fellow captains.

 

From the moment i heard the stats of Musashi i have a very difficult time understanding the logic behind the design of Japanese premium ships.

 

First of all: Why is not at Tier X? 

I know that they don't want Tier X premiums, but that went off with Salem-Stalingrad. If they want to make it hard to get they can sell it with 1500000 free xp and 1500000 Elite commander xp.

 

Second : I asked why they downgrade it so mush.

IT will always be at tier X fights (even in bottom tier you will have overpens on tier 7 ships -see mutsu-). The answer was that it will be the Same as the Yamato and there will be no point of making an identical ship!!.....:fish_boom:

Why they dint downgrade Missouri then??, you can have same class, same tier premium with a lot of differences (exp Missouri, prince-Eugen, Tirpitz, Scharnhorst, Murmansk, etc)

 

Third: Why all premium IJN BBs are downgrade of existing tier and basically BAD SHIPS( Mutsu, Ashitaka,Isizuchi,) is this some kind of trend in Japanese bbs?

 

 

It will be a shame if the make a bad ship from Musashi

 

Has anyone here have same thoughts? or i am overreacting??

 

How original...

It have been already debated ad nauseam the last months.

I hope participants are using copy/paste. 

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2 hours ago, Migulaitor said:

Just sell Musashi as a tier X, with some tunning (+secondaries but - AA) sell it for 750k-1M free xp BUT you need to have Yamato, so potential money from people who free xp the line and we dont have a crippled ship.

 

Considering what we know, where do you get the +secondaries from? I'd say the 2x3 155 mm turrets are inferior to 6x2 127 mm guns. Not just because they don't serve as dual purpose guns.

The price of 750k free exp for a tier X ship if you have her sister sounds interesting though.

 

 

1 hour ago, SmartassNoob said:

The Yamato class only ever got 1 upgrade: AA overhaul. This required the removal of 2 of those old Mogami turrets.

 

The armor, fire-control systems, aiming systems and other was never changed.

 

The only difference between the ships was the layout of a few small caliber AA guns. Looks closely at the 1944 upgraded ships, it possible to spot them.

 

This is why we don't want fictional downgrades.

 

Yes and no. IIRC there was one big overhaul where they swapped the Mogami turrets for the 127 mm guns and several smaller occasions where they added additional smaller AA guns.

Also, radar and some other toys were added later, on the Yamato in 1944 when she received the additional 127 mm guns and the Musashi received hers a bit earlier.

So there are differences between a 1941/42 version and a 1943/44 version besides the AA.

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Yes WG loves to downgrade IJN Prem BBs, some battle in the early 20th century or something...

 

I won't be going anywhere near this ship as I already own a Yam and there are too many BBs in the game already, likewise with Roma even though I like the look of it. 

 

Mehsashi? :Smile_child:

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2 hours ago, robihr said:

 

unique? isnt it more or less just another moskva? i already have moskva so i dont see much appeal in unique skinned moskva with slightly different stats... except for bragging rights...

 

last time i checked moskva didnt have 3x3 302mm guns and 180mm belt

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Hi all,

 

I also don't like that "Musashi" is artificially nerfed and put into Tier IX... :Smile_sad:

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

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53 minutes ago, Tungstonid said:

 

Considering what we know, where do you get the +secondaries from? I'd say the 2x3 155 mm turrets are inferior to 6x2 127 mm guns. Not just because they don't serve as dual purpose guns.

The price of 750k free exp for a tier X ship if you have her sister sounds interesting though.

 

They could quite easily increase the secondary battery range to represent the increased high-calibre armament ratio, which would in turn give the Musashi quite a unique niche as it's secondary battery ranges would almost begin to encroach on cruisers and would allow the ship to provide decent fire-support against destroyers from the second-lines. They could quite easily raise the base secondary range on the Musashi up to 9.5km or so as balance requires, which would put the Musashi's 127mm guns almost up to their historical maximum range if the ship is equipped with every single range increase (9.5km would become 14.3km range, just shy of their 14.8km historical range). A long secondary battery range would make the Musashi quite an effective brawler against anything less than another battleship (having an accessible citadel does that) creating the dual gameplay styles where it wants to move into <14km ranges against most targets but has to remain at long ranges against enemy battleships.

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2 hours ago, RamirezKurita said:

 

They could quite easily increase the secondary battery range to represent the increased high-calibre armament ratio, which would in turn give the Musashi quite a unique niche as it's secondary battery ranges would almost begin to encroach on cruisers and would allow the ship to provide decent fire-support against destroyers from the second-lines. They could quite easily raise the base secondary range on the Musashi up to 9.5km or so as balance requires, which would put the Musashi's 127mm guns almost up to their historical maximum range if the ship is equipped with every single range increase (9.5km would become 14.3km range, just shy of their 14.8km historical range). A long secondary battery range would make the Musashi quite an effective brawler against anything less than another battleship (having an accessible citadel does that) creating the dual gameplay styles where it wants to move into <14km ranges against most targets but has to remain at long ranges against enemy battleships.

 

That was also what i wanted to be the musashi.

Those small fixes with the -AA could give musashi a very different play style.

 

But the point is that they can make it different using all shorts of things and not just downgrade it and make a bad ship.

 

 

 

Also Salem is on testing and i think it will have the economical benefits of premium ships,  and same for Stalingrad

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, Paliats0s_ said:

Why they dint downgrade Missouri then??, you can have same class, same tier premium with a lot of differences (exp Missouri, prince-Eugen, Tirpitz, Scharnhorst, Murmansk, etc)

 

Imo Missouri and Iowa are pretty much the same (minor differences in Health/AA/Ruddershift) but ofc Missouri got Radar (which is wrong imo)

Prinz Eugen and Hipper are pretty much identical aswell?

Tirpitz and Bismarck differ only by Torps/Hydro nowadays

Scharnhorst and Gneisenau, yes first one which atleast have very different guns. but thats due to the fact that the Change was already planned, so WG could use it and make it as "planned"

Murmansk... id go for Russian Bias on that one :cap_haloween:As its just straight up better than Marblehead and Omaha (being the worst of them 3)

 

WG doesnt want T10 Prems. (for money) So they could only give her as a reward aswell, but they got other ships for that now. Maybe they rather introduce Musashi into the game as T9 so ppl can use FreeXP/money to get it.

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