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Prinz Eugen/Hipper - How to make it work?

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Dunno if this is the right place for it but here goes anyway.

 

So I bought Prinz Eugen, I think the ship is gorgeous and I love it aesthetically but well. Playing the ship is another story, I just cannot make it work. The only games I've had any success is in flat tier 8 or in games where I'm top tier. If she's uptiered to anything above 8 it feels like I'm virtually useless because I just can't compete with the damage output of anything. Hell she even struggles in a 1v1 with equal tier cruisers just because they have far more firepower at their disposal. Eugen can't really compete with that, she also can't kite to save her life. Rudder shift is slow as sin and the detection range is horrible. I really don't know what to do here. - I like to think myself as a fairly competent player, having had good success in Mogami, Takao and New Orleans (Which surprises me because New Orleans is made of paper). But I noticed they all have something in common, a trait that defines them from the rest. New Orleans has radar and sheer handling to her advantage. Along with pretty deadly guns which have a good range. Takao and Mogami have excellent torpedoes, best on tier cruiser concealment if specced and firepower to make Eugen cry and run home to mother despite poor firing range. - Prinz Eugen or Hipper don't really have any traits that make them good as a cruiser..

 

I really think this thing needs a buff already. I'm about to throw in the towel with it, sell the ship and put the credits toward something useful. If anyone can offer any tips to make it less painful I'd appreciate it :)

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Eugen is the worst tier 8 premium and absolutely not worth the money ATM. WG also stated that they don't care about both Hipper and Eugen and the fact that their stats are abysmal.

The only way to play both ships is to hang back and let others tank for you, while you slowly (thanks to lowest DPM at tier) fire at targets.

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I have a dislike for the Hipper due to it's poor reload and somewhat weak HE. Then I just played the Hipper with AP, unless I'm shooting at a DD. Targets may be angled but you can aim for the superstructure and try shooting HE then if you keep on bouncing or don't pen. It helped with my damage compared to pretending that the Hipper is a HE cruiser. 

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"poor reload" is merely due to powercreep. Hipper used to have the fastest reloading 203mm guns at T8 upon release of the German cruiser line, now Hipper and Eugen are the third slowest (only Mogami with gun upgrade and Atago are slower).

Be it as it may, I still enjoy her. She is quite tanky when angled. Weakest points for BB citadel hits are bow and stern if you are at 0° angle. And I guess her barbettes can be penned as well but that is a common cruiser thing. Her turtleback will not save you from eating tons of BB damage but gives you a nice edge when fighting other cruisers (RN in particular).

Hydro is a great asset for teamplay - stacked with Vigilance you have 5 km torpedo spotting range. Allied BBs will like this, especially now with deepwater torps around.

 

Overall she is a prime example of a "jack of all trades - master of none". Compared to her peers she does okay in every aspect and every situation but she excels at nothing in particular. Her major strength is having no real weakness :)

 

So how to play... just roam and adapt to the current situations :) She needs a lot of space to maneuver as you cannot rely on smoke or heal. Her HE does okayish for long range shots against angled targets (shell speed and accuracy are very reliable). Once you get closer or see a broadsiding ship, AP is your friend.

 

Oh, and a general hint: If you fire HE at angled ships, don't aim for the superstructure. There is a high chance of hitting the well armored turret and hence only causing little to no damage. Aim for the bow section in that case as HE ignores angles. Since you can pen 50mm of armor with German 203mm shells, you will deal full HE pen damage against most ships. 

 

edit: A buff would be great though. One single charge of heal (3 with premium consumable and SI) could make the difference. Or at least restore her gun reload to former glory.

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I really do feel like a buff is really overdue for this ship. WG's attitude towards keeping ships, at least in this case of historical value up to snuff is frankly depressing. They'd rather make two copies of Amagi and unleash an entire Pan Asian DD line (One of the lines of ships making Eugen and other cruisers completely redundant) instead of keeping these ships relevant. I feel like Eugen when uptiered at all, is next to hopeless where as Takao and Mogami (Both cruisers I love to death) can still hold a candle to the best of em at tier 10. The Hipper class was a very good class of cruiser in historic terms and as far as I'm concerned there's no reason for it to be anything less than that in the game - Apart from ignorance or the fact they can't be bothered. I really think the game has tanked since I started playing when it comes to things like this.

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53 minutes ago, Explorer487 said:

unleash an entire Pan Asian DD line (One of the lines of ships making Eugen and other cruisers completely redundant)

How so? The threat of deepwater torpedoes has made German hydro more useful than ever before. You can spot those thingies at 4-5 km (high tier hydro + Vigilance) instead of being caught completely off guard, and may ensure survival of your teammates.

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In my humble opinion, the Pan Asian DDs take away utlity from German Cruisers (And other ships of nations, Jap DDs for one.) Let's face it, why play something like Hipper when you can instead play a ship with very good concealment, smoke screens. Excellent torpedoes and great guns. Let's not forget speed!.

Even as far as ships with radar at the higher tiers. Sure the Hydro is useful, but then when it comes to BBs. German BBs have Hydro - I know at least on my Bismarck I've found it massively more useful on there than on Hipper. Hell, even Bismarck does Hipper's job better than Hipper does lol..Sure her concealment is horrible. But the combination of secondary battery, hydro and armour mean she can push into a cap and support destroyers better than Hipper can without getting blapped. At least that's from my own experience

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From my *limited* experience, dancing around at max range is pretty effective (as far as Eugen/Hipper go)

But take what I say with a pinch of salt unless other people find it useful, I'm more of a USN Cruiser guy myself

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Hipper was a suffering in which I almost quit the German cruiser line entirely. When I lost my way to Roon it took me a month or 2 to actually buy Roon. Hipper? I'd rather call it "Misser" No damage worth mentioning, except in the 1 in a gazillion RNG blessing situations. And great tankiness.. A double citadel by any boat looking funny at you. And that's in the same one in a gazillion situations where RNG is kind, VERY kind to you. I think my Hipper was the absolute biggest "First blood" and/ or "Devastating Strike" donor. There's no way I'll ever spend 1 cent on Eugen because of this. Yes it's looking marvelous but I refuse to go through that mediocre suffering ever again.

I didn't really like Yorck as well but at least I got 2 or 3 epic matches in that one. After a getting used to period Roon finally made a "Spock" for me. And I love Hindenburg to death. My stats might be very mediocre but I'm having such a blast in that boat.

How to make it function? Use free XP and get to Roon asap.

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Hipper has bad RoF but its very effective vs broadside enemies BBs and Cruisers, 8-10k per salvo is quite common. You support your team and wait opportunity to unleash broadside cruisers.

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1 hour ago, Guillotine said:

Hipper has bad RoF but its very effective vs broadside enemies BBs and Cruisers, 8-10k per salvo is quite common. You support your team and wait opportunity to unleash broadside cruisers.

 

Which means that you can't do a lot when the enemy knows how to angle. And while you're waiting for that perfect broadside to do some damage, the Chapayev on your team just earned a Witherer and the Charles Martell  the High Caliber.

There's a reason both Hipper and Eugen are at the bottom of the stat table for TVIII cruisers. Both ships have a very limited impact compared to other cruisers of the same tier, hell even the New Orleans is a better DD hunter than them.

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13 minutes ago, Aragathor said:

 

Which means that you can't do a lot when the enemy knows how to angle. And while you're waiting for that perfect broadside to do some damage, the Chapayev on your team just earned a Witherer and the Charles Martell  the High Caliber.

There's a reason both Hipper and Eugen are at the bottom of the stat table for TVIII cruisers. Both ships have a very limited impact compared to other cruisers of the same tier, hell even the New Orleans is a better DD hunter than them.

Its different from rest of the t8 yes, it has worse dpm, it has worse AP angles yes but when the angle favors you its devastating.

 

One mistake ppl usually do in hipper / eugen is that they stick with HE even long range broadside targets. You AP will deal great dmg even at range, sticking AP untill it bounces/shatters after that use HE.

 

I liked hipper alot after i got hang of the AP i managed to get through 61.7% win rate 2300 PR.

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1 hour ago, Guillotine said:

Its different from rest of the t8 yes, it has worse dpm, it has worse AP angles yes but when the angle favors you its devastating.

 

The average game in random goes on for about 16 minutes, so why should anyone invest time into playing a ship that's highly situational?

Because instead of playing something that rides the hardship bus into struggle town I can play a TVIII cruiser that performs well almost every time and contributes to the game.

WG is just lazy by not improving the worst premium TVIII cruiser and the second worst silver TVIII cruiser. The recent Q&A has mentioned that they will "look into it, no guarantees" so don't expect any changes.

 

PS: The worst silver cruiser at TVIII is getting moved to TVII, leaving the Germans as the bottom of the barrel.

PPS: Have both ships, play them only in coop as I don't want to be a burden in randoms.

PPPS: The Prinz Eugen has the worst win rate among all TV+ premium cruisers and avg. damage that is barely better than the Murmansk.

 

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On 4.1.2018 at 7:28 PM, Aragathor said:

 

The average game in random goes on for about 16 minutes, so why should anyone invest time into playing a ship that's highly situational?

Because instead of playing something that rides the hardship bus into struggle town I can play a TVIII cruiser that performs well almost every time and contributes to the game.

WG is just lazy by not improving the worst premium TVIII cruiser and the second worst silver TVIII cruiser. The recent Q&A has mentioned that they will "look into it, no guarantees" so don't expect any changes.

 

PS: The worst silver cruiser at TVIII is getting moved to TVII, leaving the Germans as the bottom of the barrel.

PPS: Have both ships, play them only in coop as I don't want to be a burden in randoms.

PPPS: The Prinz Eugen has the worst win rate among all TV+ premium cruisers and avg. damage that is barely better than the Murmansk.

 

NO is much better than Hipper/Prinz.

Better reload, more guns, better AP angles, better HE, Radar, MUCH BETTER TURNING CIRCLE, concealment.

 

 

So Hipper is by far the worst silver premium and thats a fact, because in every sense NO is a pretty competitive ship.

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On 1/4/2018 at 7:28 PM, Aragathor said:

 

The average game in random goes on for about 16 minutes, so why should anyone invest time into playing a ship that's highly situational?

Because instead of playing something that rides the hardship bus into struggle town I can play a TVIII cruiser that performs well almost every time and contributes to the game.

WG is just lazy by not improving the worst premium TVIII cruiser and the second worst silver TVIII cruiser. The recent Q&A has mentioned that they will "look into it, no guarantees" so don't expect any changes.

 

PS: The worst silver cruiser at TVIII is getting moved to TVII, leaving the Germans as the bottom of the barrel.

PPS: Have both ships, play them only in coop as I don't want to be a burden in randoms.

PPPS: The Prinz Eugen has the worst win rate among all TV+ premium cruisers and avg. damage that is barely better than the Murmansk.

 

 

I suppose the 'worst T8 cruiser' is the NO?

Well it may be the one with the higest skill ceiling but in now way the worst.....I finally got the hang of it and I really love it.

Same for his little brother pepsicola.

 

I love my mogami/atago/hipper but USN cruisers have really everything for them in a perfect compact package....

 

Because server stats say one thing, in some cases it just means tomatoes can't play those ships.

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20 minutes ago, SinkTheOthersNotMe said:

 

I suppose the 'worst T8 cruiser' is the NO?

Well it may be the one with the higest skill ceiling but in now way the worst.....I finally got the hang of it and I really love it.

Same for his little brother pepsicola.

 

I love my mogami/atago/hipper but USN cruisers have really everything for them in a perfect compact package....

 

Because server stats say one thing, in some cases it just means tomatoes can't play those ships.

 

Stat wise the NO is the worst silver cruiser at TVIII, the distinction of worst TVIII cruiser goes to Prinz Eugen.

And you can't just dismiss stats at high tier, as the ships aren't played by beginners.

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20 hours ago, Aragathor said:

high tier, as the ships aren't played by beginners.

I agree to disagree.

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7 hours ago, PzychoPanzer said:

I agree to disagree.

What a deep and thoughtful counter argument. Let me counter it, by saying that it is hard to get enough experience to progress from 0 to tier 8, especially for bad players who receive less XP per game.

And if we dismiss high tier stats completely, then I demand that Eugen should be made into a faceroll machine because of reasons.

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19 minutes ago, Aragathor said:

What a deep and thoughtful counter argument. Let me counter it, by saying that it is hard to get enough experience to progress from 0 to tier 8, especially for bad players who receive less XP per game.

And if we dismiss high tier stats completely, then I demand that Eugen should be made into a faceroll machine because of reasons.

If you mean beginner, as in it isn't their first battle, when they play a tier 8-10, of course.

 

What I meant, is something you can test for yourself. Next time you are in a tier 10 battle, check the stats of all tier 10 ships. You will see Yamato's with worse wr and even damage than some players in a kohlberg.

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I just recently got past the cr@p, called Yorck and bought the Hipper. I find it quite refreshing to play. After I slapped double rudder shift and started playing at mid to long range I tend to do quite well in almost all of my games. Of course I have only a few battles in it so far, but I don't find it lacking. The DPM is quite low, but it is accurate and can fire on cooldown for most games due to its range and fast shells. The AP is far superior to the Yorck's, but not nearly as good as the USN CAs. The HE is... reasonable.

For me the Hipper is well-balanced average CA. It does not excell in anything but does reasonably well in most cases. A small buff on its DPM would be nice, but it can be used as it is now.

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2 hours ago, almitov said:

The AP is far superior to the Yorck's, but not nearly as good as the USN CAs. The HE is... reasonable.

 

Debatable. German AP penetration may be inferior, but it's good enough and the damage is where it really shines. 4600 on the New Orleans vs 5900 on the Hipper makes it an AP monster on anything you catch broadside. Would advise getting comfortable with using a lot of AP on the Hipper because those are the exact same guns and shells you'll be using on the Hindenburg.

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17 hours ago, rvfharrier said:

 

Debatable. German AP penetration may be inferior, but it's good enough and the damage is where it really shines. 4600 on the New Orleans vs 5900 on the Hipper makes it an AP monster on anything you catch broadside. Would advise getting comfortable with using a lot of AP on the Hipper because those are the exact same guns and shells you'll be using on the Hindenburg.

 

Lately due to CW I have gotten quite used to the Des Moines and it really can pen at ridiculous angles and citadel other cruisers to sh!t. With the Hipper I noticed that the AP becomes good either at very close range or against perfect broadside cruisers at mid range. Also it did not yield good results against broadside BBs at more than 6km in my attempts so far... I probably will get better at recognizing when to switch ammo type on this ship as I get used to the penetration values. My main mistake with that is expecting similar pen values to USN AP.

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Do you aim at the upper belt or the superstructure? At longer ranges german 203mm AP can result in nice damage from regular pens on broadside BB superstructures.

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2 hours ago, almitov said:

 

Lately due to CW I have gotten quite used to the Des Moines and it really can pen at ridiculous angles and citadel other cruisers to sh!t. With the Hipper I noticed that the AP becomes good either at very close range or against perfect broadside cruisers at mid range. Also it did not yield good results against broadside BBs at more than 6km in my attempts so far... I probably will get better at recognizing when to switch ammo type on this ship as I get used to the penetration values. My main mistake with that is expecting similar pen values to USN AP.

 

Des Moines and fully upgraded Balitmore have excellent penetration, yes. Your struggles with getting the Hipper AP to work are odd though, you should have no problems getting excellent volleys on flat battleships even out to near max range. The pen simply is not as good as the SHS on the Balti and Des Moines, but it's good enough for most purposes. You will struggle to citadel most T10 cruisers beyond close-mid range, at least that's my experience, even when you get to the Hindie (same guns, same shells after all), but the awesome shell damage itself means it doesn't really matter as your DPM output is excellent even without citadels.

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The ship wasnt working before 5bb/5dd meta and is definetly not working now. Played few games after couple months break - its tragic and drains all the fun you can have , even with tier 8 mm ... Charles Martel(with Scarab or The other special camo) feels like two tiers higher than this piece of crap. Who cares about your 27 mm bow and turtleback , if the ships youre fighting against are dd's and bb's with mostly larger guns than 380mm? Both targets , you need good HE to kill, yet your dpm , on both ammo types is garbage + you have no cammo or speed..... Same goes to Hipper.

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