Recommend best tier 10 DD to contest caps

[kill_me_and_u_win_50euro]

Need some advice as to what tier 10 DD to choose for this role of contesting caps against other DDs.  From what I can make out its a toss up between the Z 52 and the gearing.   is the pan asia DD tier 10 guns any good for that role?  Anything else I should consider?

 

Thx

[El2aZeR]

Z-52 is better thanks to smoke + hydro.

Gearing can squeeze out a win if the Z-52 is alone and you are able to rush the smoke without taking any torps. That won't happen very often, though.

[kill_me_and_u_win_50euro]

2 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

Z-52 is better thanks to smoke + hydro.

Gearing can squeeze out a win if the Z-52 is alone and you are able to rush the smoke without taking any torps. That won't happen very often, though.

Would you say the gearings guns are better than the Z 52 if it came down to a shooting fest? 

[El2aZeR]

Just now, chainy said:

Would you say the gearings guns are better than the Z 52 if it came down to a shooting fest? 

 

Definitely. You can outgun a Z-52 using only your front guns. It should however be noted that I play Gearing with full gun spec sans AFT.

Give broadside though and a Z-52 will kill you with AP.

[Gnirf]

25 minutes ago, chainy said:

Need some advice as to what tier 10 DD to choose for this role of contesting caps against other DDs.  From what I can make out its a toss up between the Z 52 and the gearing.   is the pan asia DD tier 10 guns any good for that role?  Anything else I should consider?

 

Thx

Both are good, One advantage in general apart from the hydro/smoke is that Z has faster reload on the torps. If the radar on PA is useful enough I do not know yet. German Hydro is longer lasting , personally I have also the hydro modification which makes the duration even better

[Turnipsi]

The Pan Asian DD has the best concealment out of the tier 10 DD's (without CE and CSM, 200m less than on Gearing, Grozovoi and Shimakaze). You might be able to do something with this, but I would still pick Z-52 most of the time.

[GulvkluderGuld]

You have to consider two situations:

 

1) 1v1 - has been described in detail above. Hydro + smoke is broken.

 

2) 1 + backup vs 1 + backup. In this case provided you bring the right backup to spot the Z52 (radar), or you spot him after smoke ends, damage is mostly done by the backup.

Dont have a Z52 myself, but from what I hear it is not the most maneuverable ship. Gearing on the other hand is. So if both has to dodge shells, by money is on the Gearing unless it is mostly BBs shooting Ap at it.

[Sailor_Bear]

For me Z-52 hands down. Have both destroyers and i can bully a cap better with it. The AP is also pure carnage if the Gearing makes a mistake and shows you his broadside... wider hull and thicker side mid-ship armor than standard tier 10 DDs.... Khaba doesnt count thats  a CL without a citadel

[Runegrem]

38 minutes ago, Sailor_Bear said:

 Khaba doesnt count thats  a CL without a citadel

 

Well, I did get three solo caps in my last game in it. Or maybe the last wasn't solo. But it's usually far better at supporting someone taking a cap than taking it itself, and it does so very well since no dd wants to stay close to a Kebab while spotted. Also, in close range Kebab torps come into play which are the stealthiest torps in the game and they hit hard even if they're slow.

 

Pan Asian DD though. It might have better stealth, but it doesn't have any torp threat which is a disadvantage.

 

German hydro can deal with both torps and smoke, so I'd put my money on that. Don't have it though, so it's only an educated guess.

 

It's all very situational though, so after all numbers are crunched it's mostly up to player skill anyway.

[eliastion]

2 hours ago, chainy said:

Need some advice as to what tier 10 DD to choose for this role of contesting caps against other DDs.  From what I can make out its a toss up between the Z 52 and the gearing.   is the pan asia DD tier 10 guns any good for that role?  Anything else I should consider?

 

Thx

I don't own any of them but (playing DDs a lot) I can give you my opinions based on encounters and what I read from stats:

 

Z-52 has the most powerful tool for that - Hydro is a tremendous advantage in the smoke-play that often takes part in cap. Z-52 also synergizes extremely well with some other random gun-based DD you might get to cooperate with. The only problem Z-52 has is the stealth - but she doesn't get outspotted by THAT much.

 

Gearing has more raw DPM on cap-contesting ranges. She handles well and is stealthier than Z-52. If you don't want to rely on a consumable (that might be on cooldown or gets a bit less useful if one or both sides have good Radar support), Gearing might be the better choice.

 

T10 PA DD is very similar to slightly stealthier Gearing - but without torps to control enemy DD movements. This DD should still be perfectly capable of contesting caps and won't straight-up lose to any other DD in that aspect, but that lack of torps is a serious flaw. You can be safely rushed in your smoke by enemy DDs, you can't force them out of smokes - actual torp kills between DDs aren't that common, but the very fact that the enemy MIGHT put (or already have) some fish in the water is still a factor that shouldn't be overlooked - and more than offsets the difference in stealth. Therefore, while this particular ship is certainly CAPABLE of contesting caps (and the stealth can give you an important edge in some situations), overall she just seems inferior to Gearing in this aspect of DD play - so if your #1 priority is cap-contesting, then PA is probably not the line for you.

[Darth_Glorious]

Z-52 > Yueyang > Gearing > Grozovoi > Shima > Khaba

[Profilus]

On 1v1 situation any DD (maybe not Khaba, but won't exclude it) can contest cap. But for getting it in 1v1 situation for sure, Z-52. Also skill and a bit of luck required even with Z-52.

[blanc091]

Z-52 with hydro special upgrade; it just..works.

[EmilyFara]

The z52 is the best due to the hydro and smoke combo. The guns are quite good as well, while not the same as the gearing, but better shell arcs. 

3 hours ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

You have to consider two situations:

 

1) 1v1 - has been described in detail above. Hydro + smoke is broken.

 

2) 1 + backup vs 1 + backup. In this case provided you bring the right backup to spot the Z52 (radar), or you spot him after smoke ends, damage is mostly done by the backup.

Dont have a Z52 myself, but from what I hear it is not the most maneuverable ship. Gearing on the other hand is. So if both has to dodge shells, by money is on the Gearing unless it is mostly BBs shooting Ap at it.

The z52 is not the most maneuverable ship, but neither is the gearing though. 

The gearing is nowhere as maneuverable as the Fletcher (unfortunately). 

As with eating bb ap, both dd's are just as fat. So they are both vulnerable to eating random bb ap pens. The difference is that the z has more hp than the gearing. 

[El2aZeR]

59 minutes ago, stewie533 said:

As with eating bb ap, both dd's are just as fat.

 

Currently comparing them in port. Gearing does seem to have a bit more beam. On the other hand Z-52 is a bit longer.

What is critical though is the amount of target area above the waterline. Gearing is a far easier target than Z-52 will ever be. Maybe they should actually lower Gearing a bit further into the water.

[kfa]

8 hours ago, Darth_Glorious said:

Z-52 > Yueyang > Gearing > Grozovoi > Shima > Khaba

 

Z-52 > Yueyang > Gearing > Grozovoi > Shima > Minotaur > Zao > Khaba

 

[44smok]

I'm having a quite consistent success in capping with my multi purpose Kurwurst class destroyer

[Desteban]

40 minutes ago, kfa said:

 

Z-52 > Yueyang > Gearing > Grozovoi > Shima > Minotaur > Zao > Khaba

 

Well, I am not going to recommend Khaba to anyone trying to take a cap since it is a lot...different? But she is propably one of the best cap contesters out there if she doesn't has to fight the whole enemy team alone. I hardly see any DD better than her since she can litteraly strong arm any DD she encouters 1vs1. She gets outumbered pretty fast though since she is faster at the frontline then her allies and dies very quickly to BB salvos. So this propably isn't for everyone. But she sure is better than Shima/Mino/Zao at contesting a cap... 

[Runegrem]

18 minutes ago, Desteban said:

Well, I am not going to recommend Khaba to anyone trying to take a cap since it is a lot...different? But she is propably one of the best cap contesters out there if she doesn't has to fight the whole enemy team alone. I hardly see any DD better than her since she can litteraly strong arm any DD she encouters 1vs1. She gets outumbered pretty fast though since she is faster at the frontline then her allies and dies very quickly to BB salvos. So this propably isn't for everyone. But she sure is better than Shima/Mino/Zao at contesting a cap... 

 

Yeah. If it's truly a 1v1 situation, like say, D on North and you know no one else is there, then firepower and tankiness is what matters. And any hydro/radar equipped cruiser would win over any DD since it's really hard to torp through hydro and you can't shoot her without being shot back at. You're not gonna win that exchange.

 

That's just the odd rare case though since in normal circumstances the enemy might have some support of BBs some 20km away at the border which might still scare away some cruisers or some sneaky cruiser hiding behind an island just waiting for a DD to get spotted. So in normal play information is king, which is what hydro excels at. For support, bring firepower, which means Kebab.

 

Also, I'm still not sure what the strengths of the Yueyang is. I hear it's Gearing-like but slightly different. But since it can't torp DDs isn't it possible to just rush it and torp from close?

[JaiFoh]

27 minutes ago, Desteban said:

Well, I am not going to recommend Khaba to anyone trying to take a cap since it is a lot...different? But she is propably one of the best cap contesters out there if she doesn't has to fight the whole enemy team alone. I hardly see any DD better than her since she can litteraly strong arm any DD she encouters 1vs1. She gets outumbered pretty fast though since she is faster at the frontline then her allies and dies very quickly to BB salvos. So this propably isn't for everyone. But she sure is better than Shima/Mino/Zao at contesting a cap... 

I had a Khaba push into a Cap the other day trying to bully a Yugumo we had in there.
He had a nasty shock when i came round an island in a Minotaur at 5.8km, proceeded to smoke up and inflict 18k of damage too him before a Montana 14km away finished him off. 

Its pretty damn close between the Gearing and the Z52 TBH

[_Teob_]

As someone with over 1k matches in both the Gearing and the Z52, I am of the opinion that the best cap contender is the Z52 hands down.

 

For me it's not even close. The Gearing cannot really counter smoke. The Z52 can.

[BlackYeti]

2 hours ago, 44smok said:

I'm having a quite consistent success in capping with my multi purpose Kurwurst class star destroyer

 

Fixed 

[ClappingLollies]

Kidd.  You crap on T10 DDs with that thing. 

[Niibler]

Best cap contesters are BBs 20km away from the cap. Those are the real deciders of knife fights.

[dCK_Ad_Hominem]

I can only talk about the receiving end, but the z-52 is flat out scary for any dd running into it. It won't get torped with hydro active and can deal out just so much damage. 

 

The Yueyang is scary as well when running radar, even more so due to its concealment. I will however hold off for now since I am expecting her to get nerfed.