Apparently stealthfiring from BBs is a thing

[wilkatis_LV]

No, the title is not clickbait. It's a legit thing

Lets just start with the video right away:

 

 

Turns out after the stealthfire "removal" from the game you can still do it, and of all classes it happens to be in your BBs (and some cruisers aswell but that's not nearly as interesting)

 

All you need to do is to outrange the opponents (generally DDs) vision range (draw distance). If you fire while no enemy has you within their draw distance, even if they have clear line of sight to you, even if they are well within your own firing range so you can shoot them - they will not see you

 

Well there goes the "always spotted after firing main battery if enemy has LoS on you"

 

P.S. BB players have done more than enough crying on these Forums, your turn now DDs

 

---

Thanks to:

@B4karra for coming up with the idea after reviewing FAM_As replay

@nwcfear for providing me with the replay from CALMs side to confirm that this was indeed the case

@Taffia_ for helping me with testing it in training room even when he didn't really have time for it

[El2aZeR]

WG will probably justify this with "Just use the Acquisition Mod. 1 upgrade!" lol.

[Shirakami_Kon]

4 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

WG will probably justify this with "Just use the Acquisition Mod. 1 upgrade!" lol.

 

Well, since we had a nice discusion in the forum about detonations with a strong defense that sinces there's a -70% detonation chance that "counters" detonations so there's no need to remove them, yeah, deal with that or use that mod too.

 

There are modules for every problem after all.

[Tungstonid]

And this is new how?...

Not just that this happens in every cyclone (because the view/acquisition range of all ships is reduced to 8 km), the difference to the old stealth fire is that the BB needs a spotter. I doubt there is any ship with a view range lower than their shooting range and even if this is the case, simply holding your fire or killing the spotter prevents the whole thing.

[ColonelPete]

DD have a short view range, they cannot spot stuff outside it.

[mariouus]

51 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

 

Well there goes the "always spotted after firing main battery if enemy has LoS on you

Well, I would recomend do get yourself accustomed with stated gamemechanics, WG wiki for example. 

 

DD in current case does not have LOS, because it does not have view range. 

 

 

[lameoll]

i have stealthfired with my yamato on the map TRAP while  in between the a and b cap .  the whole enemy team was either in c or behind the island at b  never thought i would see the day

[Vaderan]

Its not about the effect this "stealth fire" has, its impact on the game in terms of damage or anything. Its just about two things: it could probably 1 out of 1000 BB players, reading these forums and still having no clue, how to play BBs, encourage to play even more campy, so he/she can occasionally try to "stealthfire", with maybe one or another clan- or compeditive player, trying to figure out how to exploit this mechanic. The other thing is, that this "mechanic" justifies another outrage, complains, shitstorm and BB hate for all the poor DD players, who will not stop to rage about BBs, untill BBs are reduced to immobilized torpedo-autohit-zones without guns and any repairs.

The average player will probably never notice this thing or consider it as an aspect, that has an incredible negative impact on his game...

[wilkatis_LV]

31 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

WG will probably justify this with "Just use the Acquisition Mod. 1 upgrade!" lol.

 

Should get tested. So I've show that Gearings range is probably around 16km, with that it would be " +50% to range of assured acquisition of enemy ships" a.k.a 24km which tier 10 BBs (or tier 9s and some 8s with spotting aircraft and of course Fuso) can outrange

Would be nice if we actually got that acquisition range as a stat somewhere instead of having to calculate it off of the minimap

 

27 minutes ago, Tungstonid said:

And this is new how?...

Not just that this happens in every cyclone (because the view/acquisition range of all ships is reduced to 8 km), the difference to the old stealth fire is that the BB needs a spotter. I doubt there is any ship with a view range lower than their shooting range and even if this is the case, simply holding your fire or killing the spotter prevents the whole thing.

 

Cyclones are a special case.

And yes, obviously requires a spotter. And no, there are no ships (anymore) with vision range lower than their own firing range

As I already showed in the first clips - as an example in CB if I know where the enemy DD is expected to be I can keep my distance far enough to fire at their cruisers without giving away my own position in open waters

 

27 minutes ago, mariouus said:

Well, I would recomend do get yourself accustomed with stated gamemechanics, WG wiki for example. 

DD in current case does not have LOS, because it does not have view range.

 

There's nothing obscuring the view, thus the LoS is there. Just that his view range is limited

 

25 minutes ago, Vaderan said:

encourage to play even more campy

 

Yeah, after all the bs that WG has done to push BBs into camping and borderhuging go blame something like this for it

 

 

 

[El2aZeR]

4 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

So I've show that Gearings range is probably around 16km

 

It is precisely 16.5km.

I know this because I don't run Torp Acceleration and my torp range on the minimap ends precisely where my acquisition range ends. :)

[Gnirf]

41 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

 

Should get tested. So I've show that Gearings range is probably around 16km, with that it would be " +50% to range of assured acquisition of enemy ships" a.k.a 24km which tier 10 BBs (or tier 9s and some 8s with spotting aircraft and of course Fuso) can outrange

Would be nice if we actually got that acquisition range as a stat somewhere instead of having to calculate it off of the minimap

 

 

Cyclones are a special case.

And yes, obviously requires a spotter. And no, there are no ships (anymore) with vision range lower than their own firing range

As I already showed in the first clips - as an example in CB if I know where the enemy DD is expected to be I can keep my distance far enough to fire at their cruisers without giving away my own position in open waters

 

 

There's nothing obscuring the view, thus the LoS is there. Just that his view range is limited

 

 

Yeah, after all the bs that WG has done to push BBs into camping and borderhuging go blame something like this for it

 

 

 

You inteprete the skill wrong assured aquisition is 3 km instead of 2 km with the module when you rush a ship in smoke without any radar/hydro even if the enemy do not fire

[mariouus]

1 hour ago, wilkatis_LV said:

 

There's nothing obscuring the view, thus the LoS is there. Just that his view range is limited

View range IS maximum LoS.

 

Different view ranges is game way do represent horizontal visibility. As we know, earth is not flat.So curviture of the earth is a real factor in visibility. Thats why BBs have so high masts. For example observing from spoting-top at 10m from waterline your horizon is around 12km away.When your spoting-top is 40m from waterline (Fuso for example) your horizon is at 23km away.

[wilkatis_LV]

8 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

It is precisely 16.5km.

I know this because I don't run Torp Acceleration and my torp range on the minimap ends precisely where my acquisition range ends. :)

 

Would be nice if we actually got that shown as a stat somewhere

 

This is actually interesting, that means that in a normal situation on Mountain Range in CB as long as I don't go too high in the H line (no higher than H9, maybe H8 as the vertical coord) in a normal case I can get 1st salvo off at the enemies literally for free without getting spotted. And managing that distance can let me keep it that way, literally whole new world.

 

7 hours ago, Gnirf said:

You inteprete the skill wrong assured aquisition is 3 km instead of 2 km with the module when you rush a ship in smoke without any radar/hydro even if the enemy do not fire

Ahh, right, then it's the +20% view range? That would set Gearing at 19.8km -> tier 10 cruisers can still get over that, not even speaking of BBs

 

 

[wilkatis_LV]

6 hours ago, mariouus said:

As we know, earth is not flat.

 

Highly debated

 

The "earth is not flat" was used as one of the points to justify stealthfiring back when it was an actual thing, wasn't it? Yet didn't matter for an arcade game and its balance.

 

Personally, I see some potential for this one if used correctly, but then again - I really dislike how it works. It's an arcade game not a reality simulator (*kmh* I can see through smoke *khm*) so why can't a DD spot me when I'm firing, just not see me on his screen? I still should be on his minimap, and those who are in range to have me rendered - should have it so

[veslingr]

peoples just don know the mehanics of the game...this is not stealthfire

[mariouus]

1 hour ago, wilkatis_LV said:

The "earth is not flat" was used as one of the points to justify stealthfiring back when it was an actual thing, wasn't it? Yet didn't matter for an arcade game and its balance.

 

Personally, I see some potential for this one if used correctly, but then again - I really dislike how it works. It's an arcade game not a reality simulator (*kmh* I can see through smoke *khm*) so why can't a DD spot me when I'm firing, just not see me on his screen? I still should be on his minimap, and those who are in range to have me rendered - should have it so

I do not know about justification of stealthfiring.Currently, this one is not "classic" stealtfiring. As I recall, stealthfiring was phenomen, where one ship could spot and fire at the enemy ship, while staying undetected.Currently this is impossible. Apart from DDs, who can still make torpedo runs.

 

 I do not really mind that feature. Because it is not an issue. Logic is, that you can not spot a ship, you can not see. It is factor in naval combat. There was engagements in history, where some ships of the fleet could not see enemy at all. Where the current "problem" came from, is that most of the team at the flank was hidding and was reliant of single DD spoting.I must say Conqurors team DDs did mutch better job.  While yes, it is an arcade game, but in this case, I would say it was working as intended.

[wilkatis_LV]

4 hours ago, veslingr said:

peoples just don know the mehanics of the game...this is not stealthfire

 

BB fires his main batteries in open waters with nothing obscuring the view between him and the other ship who is well within his firing range (up to almost 8km in case of Gearing & Conq) yet the BB doesn't get spotted. If that is not stealthfire - go ahead, explain what it is. Rather, give me the term of what it is. Because that BB is firing from stealth and staying stealthed, pretty much the definition of stealthfire

[wilkatis_LV]

3 hours ago, mariouus said:

I do not know about justification of stealthfiring.Currently, this one is not "classic" stealtfiring. As I recall, stealthfiring was phenomen, where one ship could spot and fire at the enemy ship, while staying undetected.Currently this is impossible. Apart from DDs, who can still make torpedo runs.

 

 I do not really mind that feature. Because it is not an issue. Logic is, that you can not spot a ship, you can not see. It is factor in naval combat. There was engagements in history, where some ships of the fleet could not see enemy at all. Where the current "problem" came from, is that most of the team at the flank was hidding and was reliant of single DD spoting.I must say Conqurors team DDs did mutch better job.  While yes, it is an arcade game, but in this case, I would say it was working as intended.

 

Aaand point me to where I said it's the classic stealthfiring? It's not. But it's still stealthfiring. Yes, you lack the "spot or myself" element, but then again... Wasn't Zao able to fire at targets while keeping his stealth? Pretty sure in most cases that Zao wasn't spotting for himself, if we look at those distances involved...

 

And then you are back to "muh history lesson" - ARCADE GAME. History literally doesn't matter, it's just a nice background on which to base the game.

[mariouus]

43 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

And then you are back to "muh history lesson" - ARCADE GAME. History literally doesn't matter, it's just a nice background on which to base the game.

 

Well, the reason is, that I can really understand what are you complaneing about. View distance vs spotting has always been there. I would say from the day one. One purpose what it serves in the game is spotting damage allocation and do punish passive DDs.

 

Example: If I play Colorado, what is not particulary "nippy" ship, I would like do know early where enemy BBs are heading. Usually DDs at early point will go for left or right caps, rather than sailing out do spot enemy BB. So I usually sail towards enemy spawn at first, then deploy spotter plane and fire. This would get me spotted and usually enemy returns fire. So I will spot them and know exactly where they are heading and where I should know. Now currently, any damage my team manages to inflict at the time is credited do me, what is fair. Now if we would give DDs equal view range, then this would not happen, even if DD is 500m infront, beeing AFK, then all damage done would be credited do him/her instead.

 

Looking at the replay, i would say it is complitely fair. Enemy team played passively. What was the closest range enemy DD got?16km? Your team DDs did not play passively and got much closer do the enemy and got rewarded. And it does happen only on very rare situations.If the enemy Montana would have not hide behind the island, it would have not happened.Like I sayed, working as intended, I see no reason why DD circling 17km from the enemy mainbody should be rewarded equally as DDs who pushed into viewing distance do enemy fleet.

[ColonelPete]

2 hours ago, wilkatis_LV said:

 

BB fires his main batteries in open waters with nothing obscuring the view between him and the other ship who is well within his firing range (up to almost 8km in case of Gearing & Conq) yet the BB doesn't get spotted. If that is not stealthfire - go ahead, explain what it is.

We did...

You were outside his viewrange.

 

If a DD has a vierange of 17km and your Yamato sits at 18km, you can fire your guns all day long without him spotting you.

[Blixies]

Oh I see you're using the "X" on the minimap thing. You just lost a whole lot of my respect.

[wilkatis_LV]

1 hour ago, mariouus said:

I can really understand what are you complaneing about.

 

W8, what? Where am I complaining? This post from the start is just me showing that you can actually do that, something that, as I assumed, most people don't know of

 

Also I never claimed that it's useful often, but if you know of it you can clearly use in some situations to your benefit - both as DD and as BB.

 

1 hour ago, ColonelPete said:

We did...

You were outside is viewrange.

If a DD has a vierange of 17km and your Yamato sits at 18km, you can fire your guns all day long without him spotting you.

Thus firing from stealth or if you swat those 2 words places -> stealthfiring. So once again the same question - how is that not stealthfire?

 

1 hour ago, Blixies said:

Oh I see you're using the "X" on the minimap thing. You just lost a whole lot of my respect.

I'll use it as long as WG for some bizarre reason claims that it's perfectly ok to use. And at the same time I'll say that it should be banned. Because it should. The advantage it gives is ridiculous, despite peoples claims like "oh it's just like using spotting plane" or whatever.

As long as it's legal I see no reason to deny myself the chance of having that kind of an advantage. If you don't want to use it - fine, don't. But I'm not denying myself the ability to, for example, reliably hit the hidden target in smokescreen with the first salvo I fire.

[ColonelPete]

16 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

 

Thus firing from stealth or if you swat those 2 words places -> stealthfiring. So once again the same question - how is that not stealthfire?

You can call it stealth firing, but it is not new.

The target in question could not shoot back anyway, even if it saw the shooter.

 

[wilkatis_LV]

26 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

You can call it stealth firing, but it is not new.

The target in question could not shoot back anyway, even if it saw the shooter.

 

I... didn't say that it's anything new, you know? I just stated that it's indeed possible, if you set things up correctly. Had no clue, assumed there would be players who didn't know either. Seemed interesting enough to share

[ForlornSailor]

23 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

I... didn't say that it's anything new, you know? I just stated that it's indeed possible, if you set things up correctly. Had no clue, assumed there would be players who didn't know either. Seemed interesting enough to share

 

It has been mentioned before, when I showed another way, that stealthfire exists after the change. This video was literally made the day the change went live: A König stealth-fireing a Texas (even when seeing the video evidence, ppl said, it wasnt possible). This is another mechanic at work here, ofc.

 

 

 

56 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

You can call it stealth firing, but it is not new.

 

Oh, when talking about "new" you gotta define what is "new". The change, when WG made spotting-range equals shooting-range made this way more likely to happen. Take the Video from @wilkatis_LV as an example. Most likely. there is a cruiser headding towards A. With old gunbloom - which extended on BB way beyond the shooting-range - this ship would have had the possibility to spot him.