Would general ALT suppression help the CV cause ?

[PseudoMi]

Right now I am not experienced in CVs thus it could be naïve.

I think the difference in high-tier CV game is made mostly by the mastery of ALT, especially strafing.

Without it the imbalance between super unicums and new players would not be so dramatic, starting at tier 6. Without being beaten to death once reached tier 6, many new players would continue playing CV. More CVs means uniformity of presence in every game, allowing the cool foresee of all ship optimizations instead of game of abusing a sporadicity then frustrations. CV would be back in the game as permanent class, at the same time less deadly in expert hands because ALT suppression. Today pernicious fate of the game depending only on the CV would be history. Everybody would be happy and we would spend our time on the forum praising WG.

 

What do you think ?

[Favuz]

WG should balance the game around the average player, not the potato player.

 

RN BB is the most idiot proof ship line ever seen, if you remove manual attack from CV you'll do the same.

 

I am not a CV pro, i started to play them not long ago, now i'm at tier 6 and slowly learn how to use manual attack (especially strafing and dive bombers, alt torp is easier than auto IMHO), first in coop and then in random.

 

You'll introduce a Whole Group of potato cv players and remove the best players because they surely not play them anymore, and believe me, there is nothing more annoying that having a dumb cv in your team who doesn't spot, waste a full strike on a 5k hp bb and does't pay attiontion to minimap.

[Exocet6951]

10 minutes ago, PseudoMi said:

Right now I am not experienced in CVs thus it could be naïve.

I think the difference in high-tier CV game is made mostly by the mastery of ALT, especially strafing.

Without it the imbalance between super unicums and new players would not be so dramatic, starting at tier 6. Without being beaten to death once reached tier 6, many new players would continue playing CV. More CVs means uniformity of presence in every game, allowing the cool foresee of all ship optimizations instead of game of abusing a sporadicity then frustrations. CV would be back in the game as permanent class, at the same time less deadly in expert hands because ALT suppression. Today pernicious fate of the game depending only on the CV would be history. Everybody would be happy and we would spend our time on the forum praising WG.

 

What do you think ?

 

But then you have to remove air supremacy skill, simply because that would cause a rift between people with 9 point captains, and people with more than 10 point captains.
Then you have the issue of T6 and T7 CVs suffering the same fate as T4 and T5 CVs, where facing a higher tier CV means that your fighters basically autolose.


For me, the CV issues can't be solved with a "simple" fix here or there, but rather a significant rethink and remodelling of a lot of moving part.

[Boris_MNE]

20 minutes ago, PseudoMi said:

Right now I am not experienced in CVs thus it could be naïve.

I think the difference in high-tier CV game is made mostly by the mastery of ALT, especially strafing.

Without it the imbalance between super unicums and new players would not be so dramatic, starting at tier 6. Without being beaten to death once reached tier 6, many new players would continue playing CV. More CVs means uniformity of presence in every game, allowing the cool foresee of all ship optimizations instead of game of abusing a sporadicity then frustrations. CV would be back in the game as permanent class, at the same time less deadly in expert hands because ALT suppression. Today pernicious fate of the game depending only on the CV would be history. Everybody would be happy and we would spend our time on the forum praising WG.

 

What do you think ?

 

 

Most (insert insult here) idea ever.

You literary want to take all my skill only because (insert insult here) can't learn to use ALT properly? Its not nuclear science, really.

[Hybria]

So you wont to rework CVs to "point n Click Adventure"...

Making it boring and completly skill free class...

 

GREAT - we allready have this at t4/5 and its boring as hell.

 

Go play 

[deadly_if_swallowed]

Chill. No need for insults here. He just asked for opinions about his suggestion. And if you check OP's CVs you will understand why he suggested it.

He played Langley, Hosho and Zuiho which are point-and-click adventures since there is no manual attack at T4 and T5. He just started Ryujo and played some Saipan games. So he gets matched against T6-T9 AA monsters and more experienced CV players while learning the basics of manual attacks at the same time since he had no opportunity to do so within the protected matchmaking of T4 and T5. Removing manual attacks from those tiers instead of giving these players (an even more) protected MM was a big fuckup by WG. 

[Kann_Nix_Extreme]

As a non CV player you might wonder what auto dropping feels like compared to manuals: About as bad as long range wide spread torping with your torpedo bar glued to the lead indicator. Thats how bad it is. Would such a change close the gap between potatoes and super unicums? Certainly! But so does turning everyones monitor off (which is an equally elegant solution to the issue)

[RUSSIANBlAS]

No, a game should be balanced around what an elite level player can accomplish with some thought towards the average masses. Otherwise there would be no incentive for anyone to improve and the "pro" environment would be frankly boring as there would be no displays of skill.

 

Granted WG should teach Alt attacks properly and empathise how utterly fail clicking on the enemy is for CVs. 

 

Removing Alt attacks for the lower tiers is one of the dumbest game changes WG have done with this game, it's likely made the CV problem worse as players who get to T6 basically fall off a cliff. The MM screws a T6 CV as it is, their ships have small hangers and now you've got players who are Alt attacking for the first time or even not at all? Well done balance department 

[PseudoMi]

It's not my own (very old and insignifiant) experience at stake but the fate of the gameplay. I simply asked opinions. With MM Monitor you can see players WR and you can anticipate the game based on the WR difference in CVs. When you have a potato CV versus a unicum CV the end is no mistery.

 

Skill is a good thing. However look at the dissapearance of CVs in high tiers. It seems that players able to improve their skills in CVs are few, resulting in a whole class imbalance. As a BB player, even if I'm their food, I would like to see CVs in every game, like we see DDs and CAs and of course BBs. Right now a CV in high tier is a surprise, always a very good one or a very bad one.

 

What's stopping more players to continue grinding CVs ? The skill wall, right ?

[Hybria]

BBs are no food for a unicum CV player as long as there are DDs in the game...

 

Whats stopping players to go on?

The absurd AA Power in Hightier games - 6 out of 12 ships having def AA and 3 more being Nofly Zones being perfectly normal these days.

Watching the game for 10 minutes doing nothing other than spotting and fighter bingo isnt entertaining (at least a lot less entertaining than low tiers)

BBs with absurd AA making torping (and hitting!) DDs even more important if you want to win the game making CV play a lot harder.

An economy that says "be really really good or dont make profit even on t8/9" doesnt really help either i guess - combined with the most expensive ships to buy and research (t10 CVs having to do massive research and buying upgrades - no other t10s have that...) a T10 CV in "playable" upgraded way costs about 35 million.

 

Why suffer at t10 if i can have more fun at t6/7?

I have both t10 - i like to get them out from time to time and im doing okay in them .... but after 3 games usually im like "im fed up of def AA - lets play a kaga/saipan/ryjuo game"

[Isalani]

16 minutes ago, Boris_MNE said:

 

 

Most (insert insult here) idea ever.

You literary want to take all my skill only because (insert insult here) can't learn to use ALT properly? Its not nuclear science, really.

 

CV's are so dominant that the skill rift between 2 players can dictate the outcome of a 24 player game. So either you solve this by making CV's far less dominant (you'd definitely QQ about that) or by lowering the rift between good and bad players (you're QQ-ing about that as well). Currently CV's are banned in clanwars, I guess you prefer that because any sort of constructive ideas get blown out of the water with no argumentation whatsoever.

 

 

I agree that it'd take the fun out of CV play and it's a poor solution but there's no need to be so stuck up about it...

 

[Xevious_Red]

30 minutes ago, PseudoMi said:

 

What's stopping more players to continue grinding CVs ? The skill wall, right ?

For me, in no specific order;

-Its not exciting. In addition to the fact you only attack about 4-5 times per game, you dont really feel involved in the fight. You're moving symbols around to make numbers appear rather than feeling "stuck in". 

-Its actually hard/stressful. CV have a ton of tasks, and you're expected to do all of them all the time

-The UI is crap, and bug ridden. Many times bombers have not dropped because reasons, then all been shot down instead.

-Its quite 1v1 with the enemy CV. If they're good, they'll lock you down. You dont get the same thing with playing a cruiser and having a good enemy cruiser. Even DD you can always go to a different cap if the enemy DD is excellent. With CV you can spend the game doing nothing if the enemy CV is good enough. To compound the misery, in another class if you get countered hard you'll probably die and can at least go back to port and get in a different game. With CV you'll probably be alive so instead can suffer up to 20 mins of being hard countered. If you see an OMNI division with a saipan you almost feel like you might as well just return to port. 

-The rewards are terrible, playing them gives much lower credits

-Your team will constantly make demands of you, many of which are conflicting or simply not possible.

-There are multiple situations where you simply cant do anything. A Hiryu cant attack an Atlanta. So if theres one there you simply cant have planes in that area. A DD can attempt to attack a Des Moines. Its bad idea and will probably result in failure, but you can try. A Hiryu can't drop on an Atlanta simply because any planes will die before they get close enough. The Atlanta player doesnt even need to be paying attention for this to happen.

-You will get constant abuse from everyone, from team mates that blame all their woes on CV, to people that want the impossible, to enemy hating you attacking them. No other class gets this much constant grief.

[Haleos]

2 hours ago, Xevious_Red said:

If you see an OMNI division with a saipan you almost feel like you might as well just return to port. 

God I hate them so much in my games. 

[Malim0o]

2 hours ago, PseudoMi said:

 

 

What's stopping more players to continue grinding CVs ? The skill wall, right ?

 How improve your cv's skills ? With a point and click gameplay, against a bad cv player ?

Hum not sur .

[Xevious_Red]

2 minutes ago, Haleos said:

God I hate them so much in my games. 

Have you encountered the OMNI "thisisntriggingthematchmakingatall" divisions?

 

Consists of a Saipan, and then 2 tier 8 ships with tons of AA (MK/NC etc).

 

The Saipan gets the benefit of having 2 tier 8 AA fortresses to use, while the other 2 ships get the benefit of never being put into a tier X game despite being tier 8 due to the mirror MM for CV (can't drag a tier 7 CV into tier X unless it can match with a similar division)

[Hybria]

A unicum saipan doesnt need any furhter AA - its kind of pointless if you can clear the sky alone anyway.

 

Would prefer Kaga with Full AA divi anyday - superior strike power (by a large margin) and enough Aircontroll with your AA divi. 

[Kann_Nix_Extreme]

20 minutes ago, Xevious_Red said:

Have you encountered the OMNI "thisisntriggingthematchmakingatall" divisions?

 

Consists of a Saipan, and then 2 tier 8 ships with tons of AA (MK/NC etc).

 

The Saipan gets the benefit of having 2 tier 8 AA fortresses to use, while the other 2 ships get the benefit of never being put into a tier X game despite being tier 8 due to the mirror MM for CV (can't drag a tier 7 CV into tier X unless it can match with a similar division)

 

Nobody I know does that. Stop spreading such nonsense

[Aragathor]

2 hours ago, Xevious_Red said:

For me, in no specific order;

-Its not exciting. In addition to the fact you only attack about 4-5 times per game, you dont really feel involved in the fight. You're moving symbols around to make numbers appear rather than feeling "stuck in". 

-Its actually hard/stressful. CV have a ton of tasks, and you're expected to do all of them all the time

-The UI is crap, and bug ridden. Many times bombers have not dropped because reasons, then all been shot down instead.

-Its quite 1v1 with the enemy CV. If they're good, they'll lock you down. You dont get the same thing with playing a cruiser and having a good enemy cruiser. Even DD you can always go to a different cap if the enemy DD is excellent. With CV you can spend the game doing nothing if the enemy CV is good enough. To compound the misery, in another class if you get countered hard you'll probably die and can at least go back to port and get in a different game. With CV you'll probably be alive so instead can suffer up to 20 mins of being hard countered. If you see an OMNI division with a saipan you almost feel like you might as well just return to port. 

-The rewards are terrible, playing them gives much lower credits

-Your team will constantly make demands of you, many of which are conflicting or simply not possible.

-There are multiple situations where you simply cant do anything. A Hiryu cant attack an Atlanta. So if theres one there you simply cant have planes in that area. A DD can attempt to attack a Des Moines. Its bad idea and will probably result in failure, but you can try. A Hiryu can't drop on an Atlanta simply because any planes will die before they get close enough. The Atlanta player doesnt even need to be paying attention for this to happen.

-You will get constant abuse from everyone, from team mates that blame all their woes on CV, to people that want the impossible, to enemy hating you attacking them. No other class gets this much constant grief.

 

Amen to that. I have tried CVs and compared to other classes they aren't fun to play.

I have also seen too many games where even an average CV player gets completely destroyed by a skilled CV player in the first minutes of the game. Which leaves one team at an extreme disadvantage.

CVs should be reworked form the ground up, because in they current state they are bad for the game. AA too.

[Xevious_Red]

12 minutes ago, Kann_Nix_Extreme said:

 

Nobody I know does that. Stop spreading such nonsense

Since I have encountered it twice myself while being the other tier 7 CV, it does happen. 

[DFens_666]

Maybe they should rather remove the Autodrop so that everyone actually has to learn to do something in his CV rather then point+click?

Rather improve the Skill level than to reduce it even further.

@Xevious_Red Yep, he is right... Does happen. Still it being rare doesnt make it any better.

[Kann_Nix_Extreme]

3 minutes ago, Xevious_Red said:

Since I have encountered it twice myself while being the other tier 7 CV, it does happen. 

 

As for everyone claiming unlikely stuff on the forums: Pics or it didn't happen

[deadly_if_swallowed]

2 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

Maybe they should rather remove the Autodrop so that everyone actually has to learn to do something in his CV rather then point+click?

Rather improve the Skill level than to reduce it even further.

 

I think it's ok at T4. Not optimal but not too bad either. It's the first CV of the line so it should teach the very basics first and foremost. The "grind" is over after a few battles and I think T5 CVs still have a protected +1 MM. That's quite okay for practicing manual drops and strafes as the only real AA monster is Cleveland (and the enemy CV).

The MM should just make sure to match CV players based on their experience with the respective ships on a higher priority.

[MiniBrit]

People who complain about CVs either have never played them or are really bad at playing them because they don't understand how to play them, how they work and how to easily counter them (trust me it's easy). The game should be balanced for the top 1% Not the crud at the bottom of the barrel, sorry but git gud.

[Shirakami_Kon]

56 minutes ago, Kann_Nix_Extreme said:

Nobody I know does that. Stop spreading such nonsense

 

39 minutes ago, Xevious_Red said:

Since I have encountered it twice myself while being the other tier 7 CV, it does happen. 

 

Well, it wasn't OMNI, I even remember if it was a clan to start with, that doesn't matter anyways, but I saw it too, you find it strange?

 

T8 is so f***ed up that's normal that divisions take profit of divisioning with a tier lower CV to prevent matchmaking screwing you over every time at tier 8, I can't even blame divisions doing so. It's completely normal.

[Kann_Nix_Extreme]

I don't claim nobody is doing it, but I'm sure no OMC member would. T7 MM is good enough allready. Why would you want to ruin that for yourself anyways?