Have you play T7 CV yet? no? good!!! you just save your WR

[Hiro_016]

 

..........................( i focus mostly on RANGER on this topic).........................  

 

well, not saying I'm the best CV player but I do play CV regularly and doing pretty I believe in team play way. 

usually, i just play IJN CV but due to a new deck change for USN CV, so I give it a try. 

usually, i player try to play AS deck for USN CV ( because is just better) but! now I can't. and what you find in T7? 

yep, a Saipan and Kaga. 

firstly Ranger only has 1 fighter squad dealing with a spread out strike is impossible and also most of the time that 1 fighter is always busy fight against the enemy fighter anyway.

VS Kaga: you can win fighter fight if you play against potato but really, against average is a hard work. you won't have any chance to stop your team from getting strike

VS Saipan: just press ESC and leave the game. firstly you have 6 vs 6 fighter (default) but is t7 vs t9, Saipan has faster speed, more damage and also untouchable HP.

so.... yeah good luck fight with Saipan.  

saipan today properly have 4 fighters in the squad 

this is an experience CV play, imagine what newbie player gonna be like, they properly don't even know how to use ALT attack yet. 

MM won't help you either, somehow when you on t6, you constantly put on t8 with 1 t7 ship. but when in t7 you usually just fight against your tier or lower.

 

how did WG not seen this coming that is my question?  

 

[Saiyko]

I think you are looking for @El2aZeR

That guy has been doing long long hours the last couple of days

 

with

3 hours ago, Teitoku_Yuuji_Kazami said:

AS deck for USN CV ( because is just better)

it's going to be love at first sight

[El2aZeR]

31 minutes ago, PzychoPanzer said:

That guy has been doing long long hours the last couple of days

 

You called? :)

 

I mean, he's obviously a case of git gud, but he at least got one thing right:

When facing a Saipan in anything else you better pray that he sucks. When facing a good one your sole counter is counterstrafing. Even that is tricky due to how ridiculously fast her planes are compared to your own, not to mention the UI may simply decide to screw you over.

T7 is a bad bracket for other CVs solely because the Saipan exists. You can play around full AA Scharns/Gneisenaus, you can avoid Atlantas, but facing a competent Saipan is a ridiculously monumental task that allows no mistakes whatsoever.

 

This on the other hand...

3 hours ago, Teitoku_Yuuji_Kazami said:

usually, i player try to play AS deck for USN CV ( because is just better)

 

When USN AS still existed I could outplay it while playing KC in the background. AND taunting my enemy in chat. It was literally the easiest thing to do in the entirety of CV play.

Now that it's gone you should be glad you're actually forced to be useful.

[Guillotine]

I can strafe Saipans planes as independence so i wonder how you cannot as ranger, it will be better than what T7 IJN can, yes it has more squads so strafe&bait is easyerbut dmg per strsfe is marginal combined with 2.5 strafe limit.

 

You need to lure saipan to over extend and use your fleets AA source of more dmg. They are not gods + majority of saipan users i face are far below avrage, there are good ones yes but they are rare sight.

[ShinGetsu]

Gotta love how all the zombie-AS deck in USN CV come to complain because they are now forced to git gud and be useful.

 

If I manage to outplay Saipan most of the time with the garbage planes of the Kaga, Ranger can.

 

Just a trick : All Saipan players using 3-0-1 sucks. The ones that are dangerous are the 2-2, and most of the time they aren't amazing players either.

Granted a good Saipan 2-2 will makes your life hard.

[Torped1ne]

With that ship you should focus on doing good damage protecting your bombers all other things are secondary due you can't surely provide good protection for your team especially if they spread out all over the map as t7 players are used to do,saipan as yet said by others is the most op ship of the game. Of course when i say good damage i mean to the most useful target for your team is not good to farm damage on a border huggers far 30 km from the nearest cap

[veslingr]

6 hours ago, Teitoku_Yuuji_Kazami said:

 

..........................( i focus mostly on RANGER on this topic).........................  

 

well, not saying I'm the best CV player but I do play CV regularly and doing pretty I believe in team play way. 

usually, i just play IJN CV but due to a new deck change for USN CV, so I give it a try. 

usually, i player try to play AS deck for USN CV ( because is just better) but! now I can't. and what you find in T7? 

yep, a Saipan and Kaga. 

firstly Ranger only has 1 fighter squad dealing with a spread out strike is impossible and also most of the time that 1 fighter is always busy fight against the enemy fighter anyway.

VS Kaga: you can win fighter fight if you play against potato but really, against average is a hard work. you won't have any chance to stop your team from getting strike

VS Saipan: just press ESC and leave the game. firstly you have 6 vs 6 fighter (default) but is t7 vs t9, Saipan has faster speed, more damage and also untouchable HP.

so.... yeah good luck fight with Saipan.  

saipan today properly have 4 fighters in the squad 

this is an experience CV play, imagine what newbie player gonna be like, they properly don't even know how to use ALT attack yet. 

MM won't help you either, somehow when you on t6, you constantly put on t8 with 1 t7 ship. but when in t7 you usually just fight against your tier or lower.

 

how did WG not seen this coming that is my question?  

 

Wait. AS deck is better? Is this your finall answer?:)

[lup3s]

5 minutes ago, ShinGetsu said:

Just a trick : All Saipan players using 3-0-1 sucks. The ones that are dangerous are the 2-2, and most of the time they aren't amazing players either.

Granted a good Saipan 2-2 will makes your life hard.

 

Few weeks ago I met a 301 Saipan; that player was constantly whining how UP the Saipan is due to its lack of squadrons and lack of planes per squadron (he didn't have the AS Captain skill).

Apparently -if I believe him- the Saipan's planes drop like flies, so the 2 TB squadrons are """useless""", just like the fighters (literally: "the fighters die so fast I'm forced to play with 3 of them").

Of course he then proceeds to engage the enemy fighters inside the AA aura of 3 enemy ships...

 

Tbh I think it's a good start the AS setup was removed from silver USN CVs, now WG just has to remove it from all CVs :)

[Iroks]

32 minutes ago, lup3s said:

Tbh I think it's a good start the AS setup was removed from silver USN CVs, now WG just has to remove it from all CVs :)

I'm waiting over two years for that. It would again lower population, but average skill and influence in the battle would increase. Look how many potato bouge players drop that ship since you can't just farm clear sky as braindead person.  

For ranger problems

Your one fighter win regular fight even 2v1 but this is not your main concern. Focus TB, there are not many of them so even 2-3 less is huge loose. Stop this cancer mindset that as show you. You can't prevent all the strikes, you can't delete all the fighters. Your main objective is to deliver strike and spot some DD/torps that are ahead of the main group. I would gladly trade one Saipan fighter for another tb or DB. Dead ships loose the battles not destroyed fighters. DD spotted? Who care if you eliminate person that could shoot at him.

[wilkatis_LV]

Let me fix that for you

 

Quote

Have you learned to play CV by the time you get to T7? No? Good!!! Give it up and save your teammates mental health!

 

Really didn't have that much of a problem at t7:

 

Enjoy the good MM while you have it, next time you'll be top tier this often will be at tier 10

[Exocet6951]

I played the pre buff (yes, it was a buff) Ranger in 1-1-1 despite me having played less than 100 battles in CVs at the time of starting it, and never having played a T7 CV before, and me being an above average player "only", and I managed a 61% WR.

Sounds like you need to git gud and stop relying on right click to (sometimes) win AS setups.

[cro_pwr]

3 hours ago, Guillotine said:

I can strafe Saipans planes as independence so i wonder how you cannot as ranger, it will be better than what T7 IJN can, yes it has more squads so strafe&bait is easyerbut dmg per strsfe is marginal combined with 2.5 strafe limit.

 

You need to lure saipan to over extend and use your fleets AA source of more dmg. They are not gods + majority of saipan users i face are far below avrage, there are good ones yes but they are rare sight.

Feel free to test your Indy against my Saipan, or whatever competent Saipan player you might come around.
 

OT: Yup, t7 is the most unbalanced tier for carriers, and mostly due to stupidly broken Saipan...

[lycea]

did any die hard forumite by chance, have some data on how the new US carrier loadouts are doing in terms of damage and winrate, compared to the pre patch versions?

[Exocet6951]

2 minutes ago, lycea said:

did any die hard forumite by chance, have some data on how the new US carrier loadout are doing in terms of damage and winrate, compared to the pre patch versions?

 

warships.today has some interesting insights, though maybe not completely reliable results, depending on how they fetch their info.

Bogue rocketed in damage, gained 4% WR, and stayed mostly stable in plane kill, with 0.5 plane kills less per match
Indy has won a tad more, has done a significant 30% more damage, and interestingly has killed more planes in the past week than the average since the game's release.
Same deal with the Ranger but in lesser proportions, although it's still below 50% win.
A trend that continues with the Lexi, but it stay stable in plane kills rather than increasing, with an extra 0.5 plane kills per game
The Essex finally changes the trend, being rather stable in WR but losing damage and gaining plane kills.

Midway however, rockets in WR, damage and plane kills.

 

The biggest winners of the patch have been the Indy and Midway, both significantly gaining WR, damage and plane kills.
The Essex was rebalanced to deal less damage, but gaining more air control, a welcomed change in my opinion.


The most interesting trend is the fact that plane kills simply haven't decreased.
In fact, except in one case, it actually increased.
It's far too early to call it conclusive, but here is the start to some statistical evidence that AS builds were simply not effective at air control.
 

 

[lycea]

1 hour ago, Exocet6951 said:

The most interesting trend is the fact that plane kills simply haven't decreased.
In fact, except in one case, it actually increased.
It's far too early to call it conclusive, but here is the start to some statistical evidence that AS builds were simply not effective at air control.
 

 

Keep in mind that WG removed 2 builds; there was also a strike setup without fighters.

So you can't really conclude anything based on planekills and damage. winrate is a nice reflection though.

[Exocet6951]

1 hour ago, lycea said:

Keep in mind that WG removed 2 builds; there was also a strike setup without fighters.

So you can't really conclude anything based on planekills and damage. winrate is a nice reflection though.

 

1 hour ago, lobuzjeden said:

 

Or just a lot of bad players just stopped playing CV, because WG took them their cancer decks^^

 

Both good points, but the fact that both damage and plane kill has increased is an indication that a more balanced deck is simply better than two extreme loadouts, no matter how hard someone tries to justifies that AS allowed them to perform better.

[Hiro_016]

12 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Now that it's gone you should be glad you're actually forced to be useful.

 

1 1 1 deck? you have less power compare to IJN, or if you go 0 1 2-3 (i cant remember) you can't spot properly. 

 

 

in team play case, is better that you can protect your team from enemy strike and scout enemy ship. 

i never get complaints from team doing that in T6 USN. or cv in general.  

I'm sure my team is glad that their CV can protect them. 

 

being useful is not just all about deal a lot of damage, killing all enemy planes can being useful too. 

after you can still just to the top of the table for doing that.

 

 

 

also, most of the game i lost in Hiryuu is when i fought against AS Ranger or Saipan. 

 

yes sometimes i can beat AS Ranger but only if the player is potato. one fact that makes this Ranger AS deck not good is because the potato's using it. 

 

(personally) there are so many factors why i think AS is better. 

 

[Hiro_016]

9 hours ago, veslingr said:

Wait. AS deck is better? Is this your finall answer?:)

for Ranger: yes 

 

you don't have enough flexibility to strike or defend (balance deck) 

you can't protect your team in 012 deck 

 

(while ago) i find many game where good Ranger AS deck put up a good fight against good Saipan AS deck.   

of course is a massive waste if potato uses it. 

[veslingr]

3 minutes ago, Teitoku_Yuuji_Kazami said:

for Ranger: yes 

 

you don't have enough flexibility to strike or defend (balance deck) 

you can't protect your team in 012 deck 

 

(while ago) i find many game where good Ranger AS deck put up a good fight against good Saipan AS deck.   

of course is a massive waste if potato uses it. 

lol...ltp issue for sure

 

 

[pra3y]

4 minutes ago, Teitoku_Yuuji_Kazami said:

being useful is not just all about deal a lot of damage, killing all enemy planes can being useful too. 

 

You know what is the most useful? Being able to shoot down planes and deal alot of damage, which is essentially what the USN CVs loadouts all do now. Playing AS won't win you the game because the only actual influence you have is on the enemy CV. The rest you have to bet on your teammates making use of you supressing the enemy team's cv or scouting. On the other hand with a balanced loadout you can cover your team as much as possible while influencing the game by taking out key targets so that your team has an actuak higher chance of winning. I played only 1/1/1 Ranger, before the patch, 68% winrate, 83,900 avg damage and 28.21 avg planes shot down. Useless? I think not. How you use the strength of USN CV planes to your advantage is the main point. I can strike and defend my teammates.

[Hiro_016]

6 hours ago, lobuzjeden said:

It's far too early to call it conclusive, but here is the start to some statistical evidence that AS builds were simply not effective at air control.

Agree that is too early but here is my important question. 

is that because AS deck is too weak? or! because potato using it?   

 

[El2aZeR]

11 minutes ago, Teitoku_Yuuji_Kazami said:

in team play case, is better that you can protect your team from enemy strike and scout enemy ship. 

 

Yeah, no. In AS you can't do jack.

- Fighter cover? Good luck if your team splits into two flanks. Or your enemy attacks different flanks.

- Scouting? As soon as you pull fighters to scout you're leaving your team alone. Scout with bombers and enemy fighters will simply go deny your scout.

- Dealing damage? Hahahaha, no.

 

Meanwhile Hiryu is free to scout (since you cannot pull fighters to deny his DB scout) while at the same time being capable of exploiting any opening you give him with his TBs. AS is absolutely worthless in all facets of CV play. If you were unable to outplay it in a Hiryu, go l2p.

Any well played 2/2/2 Hiryu did absolutely [edited] all over AS Ranger regardless of the skill level of the latter. Just like any higher tier IJN CV did against any higher tier AS USN CV. Even with 3 fighters against 2 USN AS remained worthless as all out. There is literally nothing a USN AS CV can do to deny you because with every choice he makes he gives you another opening. Most of my Clear Skies were farmed against them, even against players that were actually top of the line (read main CV players from any famous clan) which I would've probably had a lot more difficulty with had they played an actually useful setup. I'm actually a bit sad to see them go in that regard.

Having decent strike ability helps you in maintaining air control. Without strike ability you become so easy to outplay it's not even funny anymore.

[Hiro_016]

1 minute ago, pra3y said:

 

You know what is the most useful? Being able to shoot down planes and deal alot of damage, which is essentially what the USN CVs loadouts all do now. Playing AS won't win you the game because the only actual influence you have is on the enemy CV. The rest you have to bet on your teammates making use of you supressing the enemy team's cv or scouting. On the other hand with a balanced loadout you can cover your team as much as possible while influencing the game by taking out key targets so that your team has an actuak higher chance of winning. I played only 1/1/1 Ranger, before the patch, 68% winrate, 83,900 avg damage and 28.21 avg planes shot down. Useless? I think not. How you use the strength of USN CV planes to your advantage is the main point. I can strike and defend my teammates.

1 1 1 firstly you not gonna win strike against good Hiryu, unless you talk about fight potato of course. 

secondly, you might be able to beat Hiryu 2 fighter squads but the because you only have 1 squad of fighter. now you can't defend your team. 

unless you fight against potato Hiryu who just send his fighter to death with planning to use that time to strike. 

 

of course is not impossible to do well, but really is too much hard work. imagine a newbie play this.

[lup3s]

7 hours ago, Exocet6951 said:

Indy has won a tad more, has done a significant 30% more damage, and interestingly has killed more planes in the past week than the average since the game's release.
...

The biggest winners of the patch have been the Indy

...

 

Imo kind of strange, 111 Indy has always been the best choice 

[Exocet6951]

2 minutes ago, lup3s said:

 

Imo kind of strange, 111 Indy has always been the best choice 

Yes it has, and this basically proves it.

People playing her with AS were forced to turn back to the light, and lo and behold, an increase in everything.