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wilkatis_LV

Reseting caps (low tier CVs)

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Riddle me this one

Someone commented that I know nothing about CVs because my Zuiho WR was just 58.5% not over 60% so I decided to pad it a little.

Sadly enough they have a competent Bogue, also enemies instead of yoloing solo have split in small groups, each of which has a storng AA ship like a Cleveland, so for most of the game didn't get to do much.

Enemies are capping our base. With the help of a QE dealt with a Nurnberg and Warspite. Just the Leander left. try to find him:

CwclpiH.jpg

 

Ok, I know his last location, he hasn't moved since he set the smoke and I saw his tracers as he killed the QE. Just drop the smoke and he's done, then it's just the Bogue to sink and a Cleveland to lose all of my planes against. Oh w8, it's a tier 5, you can't drop smoke!

Luckily enough his smoke runs out just as my 2nd TB returns to the group. DBs of course miss as always, that leaves just the TBs. But since you have no manual drops they drop so far away that even a BB can dodge them, not even talking about a CL. Do a typical crossdrop, but one squad decides to do some random circle before dropping, thus the timing is off. He dodges one salvo fully, barely takes 1 torp from the other. Good enough, cap reset.

Planes rearming, he, of course keeps capping. Just as my planes are coming back into his range... Well take a f**king guess

ANhjk1Y.jpg

He smokes up, and this time his smoke lasts long enough to finish capping. NOTHING I can do about it, literally a "go f**k yourself" moment.

 

So now I'd like to ask for some attention from people like @MrConway @Sub_Octavian @Tuccy

 

I'd like to extend a massive thank you to WG from the enemy team for completely undeserved way to win a game.

And as a P.S. to their thank you message I'd like to add a middle finger from me.

 

This is just ridiculous, it's literally removing even the chance of fighting back.

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Experienced player complaining he couldn't adequately stat-pad in his T5 CV. I think this is a case of 'working as intended'!

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Instead of disabling manual drops they just should've increased arming time of torpedoes.

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21 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

Do a typical crossdrop, but one squad decides to do some random circle before dropping, thus the timing is off. He dodges one salvo fully, barely takes 1 torp from the other. Good enough, cap reset.

A question from me, a lesser skilled CV player:- If your plane did a circle before its drop when you tried to cross drop, doesn't that mean you changed the drop point just before the plane made final approach?

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2 minutes ago, iJoby said:

A question from me, a lesser skilled CV player:- If your plane did a circle before its drop when you tried to cross drop, doesn't that mean you changed the drop point just before the plane made final approach?

 

Not quite. Last second changes often are ignored if you give the command too late. What happens is the drop gets locked in (goes from green to yellow in a very simplistic explanation :cap_haloween:)  then planes fly over the drop zone, don't drop, "reset" and go for the drop again. Basically it's like a spiral. Since it's a manual drop the drop area keeps moving with the ship in question (this case - Leander), while with a manual attack you simply would drop in empty water whenever those panes finally feel like dropping. It's probably just a random bug, but I have no idea what triggers it

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21 minutes ago, rvfharrier said:

Experienced player complaining he couldn't adequately stat-pad in his T5 CV. I think this is a case of 'working as intended'!

 

Pretty much :cap_like:

 

But lets face it - people who actually are grinding through tier 4 and 5 CVs have no chance of dealing with anything in smoke, and in a "reset or lose" situation like this it just denies them even the chance to fight back. A 6+ CV would still have had the chance to win it if played more or less correctly, but 4s & 5s are denied it.

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25 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

I'd like to extend a massive thank you to WG from the enemy team for completely undeserved way to win a game.

 

2:21 minutes left, they step on your cap so you are behind on points (you need to kill all of them to win), enemy has a cleveland, yeah sure, totally undeserved win :Smile_popcorn:

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2 minutes ago, Migulaitor said:

2:21 minutes left, they step on your cap so you are behind on points (you need to kill all of them to win), enemy has a cleveland, yeah sure, totally undeserved win :Smile_popcorn:

 

I still had a fighting chance. Sinking Bogue is not hard. For Cleveland - bait his def AA, and then go in with all squads at the same time to overwhelm his AA. I've won worse.

I'm not going to deny that this probably would have still been a loss. But the way how they won - not even a chance to fight back.

A bad comparison would be a PA DD vs 2 DDs, but the PA DD has all of his guns destoyed, only tops left. Not even a fighting chance for him

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6 minutes ago, Migulaitor said:

2:21 minutes left, they step on your cap so you are behind on points (you need to kill all of them to win), enemy has a cleveland, yeah sure, totally undeserved win :Smile_popcorn:

35 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

undeserved way to win a game.

I think giving carriers absolutely no chance to hit smoked up ships is bad.

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6 minutes ago, SeeteufeI said:

I think giving carriers absolutely no chance to hit smoked up ships is bad.

Exactly. Tier 6+ CVs have it, 4s and 5s don't. I mean, if I could have torpedoed the smoke, screwed it up and Leander survived & capped - fair enough, that's a legit win. But I couldn't. Exactly my point.  :cap_tea:

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10 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

Exactly. Tier 6+ CVs have it, 4s and 5s don't.

I feel it put an end to budding new CV players learning important skills in the art of CV playing.  

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37 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

 

I still had a fighting chance. Sinking Bogue is not hard. For Cleveland - bait his def AA, and then go in with all squads at the same time to overwhelm his AA. I've won worse.

I'm not going to deny that this probably would have still been a loss. But the way how they won - not even a chance to fight back.

A bad comparison would be a PA DD vs 2 DDs, but the PA DD has all of his guns destoyed, only tops left. Not even a fighting chance for him

It was a lost, even without the smoke at the end, in 140 seconds you can not perform a drop, and do 2 more strikes, 1 of those on a non spotted ship.

And dissabling manual drops is IMO the worst way to nerf low tiers, remove fighters/straffes at tier 4 (maybe even 5) nerf alpha (tunning manual drops or raw torps/bombs dmg) and improve the cycle time. Maybe allow a "panicked" manual drop, it should still be enough to hit somebody broadside.

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It took u so long to realize that? Was literally one of the first things that came to my mind after i knew the changes were coming... Even if u cant use it frequently, doesnt mean its ok that u cant use it at all.

 

Learning manual drop at T6 is way harder, i know that myself. Imo they should have taken Strafe away from T4 so that ppl can learn Manual drop there. Its way harder to learn than how to strafe imo. on T5 then enable Strafe aswell. But this would ofc need an implamantation of not having 2 different tier CVs in a game (which can happen with T5/T6 CVs now, and its the biggest crap possible)

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23 minutes ago, iJoby said:

I feel it put an end to budding new CV players learning important skills in the art of CV playing.  

 

I've met 6s who haven't even heard of strafing or manual attacks, all they know are those same "click and forget" autodrops. Strafing tends to be the biggest "OMG WHAT THE HELL" for them, at least in my experience.

 

4 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

It took u so long to realize that? Was literally one of the first things that came to my mind after i knew the changes were coming... Even if u cant use it frequently, doesnt mean its ok that u cant use it at all.

I knew it's a thing, but this is a perfect example of how crap it is, took me just 2 games to get to it and in the next 3 that I've played I ran into the same problem two more times, just with more game time left so I actually could afford to wait.

I played through Zuiho when they still had manual attacks, and on Bogue I just didn't care as most of the time I went AS anyway (and a good portion of my Bogue games were pre-manual-removal aswell).

 

8 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

Learning manual drop at T6 is way harder, i know that myself. Imo they should have taken Strafe away from T4 so that ppl can learn Manual drop there. Its way harder to learn than how to strafe imo. on T5 then enable Strafe aswell. But this would ofc need an implamantation of not having 2 different tier CVs in a game (which can happen with T5/T6 CVs now, and its the biggest crap possible)

In my experience strafing was indeed the easiest one, followed by DBs (IJN ones, US DBs still have hopelessly bit target area lol). Torps took me quite a while, I started to get a hang of them just towards the end of Ryujo, and even now when I've finished Hiryu I screw them up every now and then. Can't even imagine how long it would take if I didn't have the chance to learn at 4 & 5...

 

Also yeah, going as a tier 5 vs tier 6 CV is fun, he can strafe you while you can cry and do nothing about it :cap_old:

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10 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

In my experience strafing was indeed the easiest one, followed by DBs (IJN ones, US DBs still have hopelessly bit target area lol). Torps took me quite a while, I started to get a hang of them just towards the end of Ryujo, and even now when I've finished Hiryu I screw them up every now and then. Can't even imagine how long it would take if I didn't have the chance to learn at 4 & 5...

 

Nice story how it was for me:

Was playing the Langley with Manual drop and stuff, i think ~20 battles back then. Got Bogue and i tried the different loadouts to see what works and how. After some time i realized 1-1-0 worked best for me...

And then WG decided to make the change. I was so pissed and frustrated i didnt play CVs for couple of months. They i took the bogue out for a game again, immediately T6 CV, i was like [edited]u? Stopped again... Grinded the Bogue in Coop at some point and got Indy.

First 3 games where total shitshow, couldnt get anything done. 4th game first win i think because of better MM and i got some TB drops on the target. 3 More losses still learning. After 7 matches it started to work a bit better as i got the hang of it again. First 7 Matches 1 win and next 7 Matches i won 4... but sure, some of the first games in Indy it was my fault that we lost (to some extend).

 

And now WG should explain to me how or why someone would try to learn Manual drop without any prior experience in it. Because with Autodrop u can still achieve something when the Enemy is unaware, especially good ol' BBabies

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2 hours ago, wilkatis_LV said:

 

So now I'd like to ask for some attention from people like @MrConway @Sub_Octavian @Tuccy

 

I'd like to extend a massive thank you to WG from the enemy team for completely undeserved way to win a game.

And as a P.S. to their thank you message I'd like to add a middle finger from me.

 

This is just ridiculous, it's literally removing even the chance of fighting back.

 

We know the CV situation is very bad at the moment, luckily your situation doesn't crop up too often.

 

I'll make sure to bring the lack of manual drops for these situations up though, with the upcoming CV rework this is something we should be able to address.

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4 minutes ago, MrConway said:

I'll make sure to bring the lack of manual drops for these situations up though, with the upcoming CV rework this is something we should be able to address.

 

Please concider removing auto-drops and only allow for manual-drops. Players can / have to learn to play CVs "right" already a T4. Its bad when you see hightier-CVs that do auto-drop only. You can still tweak with the arming time of torps if you are concerned about sealclubbers on low-tier.

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11 minutes ago, MrConway said:

I'll make sure to bring the lack of manual drops for these situations up though, with the upcoming CV rework this is something we should be able to address.

This is good news, thank you! :cap_like:

 

4 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

Please concider removing auto-drops and only allow for manual-drops. Players can / have to learn to play CVs "right" already a T4. Its bad when you see hightier-CVs that do auto-drop only. You can still tweak with the arming time of torps if you are concerned about sealclubbers on low-tier.

It's bad only when my team does it, I don't mind the enemy CV autodroping my allies & me :cap_haloween:

 

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47 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Nice story how it was for me:

Was playing the Langley with Manual drop and stuff, i think ~20 battles back then. Got Bogue and i tried the different loadouts to see what works and how. After some time i realized 1-1-0 worked best for me...

And then WG decided to make the change. I was so pissed and frustrated i didnt play CVs for couple of months. They i took the bogue out for a game again, immediately T6 CV, i was like [edited]u? Stopped again... Grinded the Bogue in Coop at some point and got Indy.

First 3 games where total shitshow, couldnt get anything done. 4th game first win i think because of better MM and i got some TB drops on the target. 3 More losses still learning. After 7 matches it started to work a bit better as i got the hang of it again. First 7 Matches 1 win and next 7 Matches i won 4... but sure, some of the first games in Indy it was my fault that we lost (to some extend).

 

And now WG should explain to me how or why someone would try to learn Manual drop without any prior experience in it. Because with Autodrop u can still achieve something when the Enemy is unaware, especially good ol' BBabies

 

I mean, it shows how much I played the Bogue after the manual attack removal if most of my games were before that and I unlocked my Independence just a couple of weeks ago :cap_haloween: Have played 15 games so far, and I have to admit - compared to Ryujo I just don't feel like she's all too useful. In almost every situation I see that I'd be doing more if I had picked Ryujo instead of her, but that could be just because I already was so used to IJN CVs

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7 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

It's bad only when my team does it, I don't mind the enemy CV autodroping my allies & me :cap_haloween:

 

 

Still those ppl will be at some point on your team aswell so...

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8 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Still those ppl will be at some point on your team aswell so...

 

That's the sad part of it

Altho you could get rid of that by always playing tier 8+ CV yourself :cap_yes:

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2 hours ago, wilkatis_LV said:

 

Not quite. Last second changes often are ignored if you give the command too late. What happens is the drop gets locked in (goes from green to yellow in a very simplistic explanation :cap_haloween:)  then planes fly over the drop zone, don't drop, "reset" and go for the drop again. Basically it's like a spiral. Since it's a manual drop the drop area keeps moving with the ship in question (this case - Leander), while with a manual attack you simply would drop in empty water whenever those panes finally feel like dropping. It's probably just a random bug, but I have no idea what triggers it

 

Imo biggest issue with autodrops is that they seem to always want to attack from a frontal angle, instead of the rear, so you always have to change the angle of attack :Smile_sceptic:

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3 minutes ago, lup3s said:

Imo biggest issue with autodrops is that they seem to always want to attack from a frontal angle, instead of the rear, so you always have to change the angle of attack :Smile_sceptic:

 

Oh yeah, I always do adjust the drop angles, especially for those derpy moments when planes kind of go for the drop but then the game decides that they should actually drop from the other side :Smile_teethhappy: manually adjusting them gives me at least somewhat better chance

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2 hours ago, rvfharrier said:

Experienced player complaining he couldn't adequately stat-pad in his T5 CV. I think this is a case of 'working as intended'!

You literally cant drop on smoke.

 

Ive seen the opposite - experienced DD using it to farm new CV players:

Charge their DD up to about 5km from some newbie langley.

Pop smoke.

Sit in smoke firing away since there's literally nothing the langley can do (cant drop on them, and can't run away as it goes 15kn)

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1 minute ago, Xevious_Red said:

You literally cant drop on smoke.

 

Ive seen the opposite - experienced DD using it to farm new CV players:

Charge their DD up to about 5km from some newbie langley.

Pop smoke.

Sit in smoke firing away since there's literally nothing the langley can do (cant drop on them, and can't run away as it goes 15kn)

wich requires a 2ed ship or plane spoting the CV if thats the case the CV is allready pretty much dead anyway the smoke just protects the dd from damage i wouldnt call that "farming" 

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