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dws010363

Radared to death

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Anyone have a view on this. In several tier VII games today, 2 where the enemy team has 2 or 3 radar cruisers to our none, and 1 game where it was the other way around and we had 2 radar to their none. Results predictable. DDs cant get near enough to contest the caps, team with radar cruisers quickly take a points lead by having control of the caps, even if they haven't already wrecked the non radar teams DDs with focused fire from half a dozen ships.

 

This is not a go at radar cruisers btw, but a matchmaking issue which creates an unbalanced game. You try and cap against a Belfast and an Atlanta hiding behind an island while he and his concealed DDs pour fire onto you, while your own cruisers cannot find or engage any of them. It only ends one way.

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I've had games like that - fortunately, they are not that frequent for me.

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Thanks.

 

Its not a moan, btw. Just to ask if others are seeing this. Thankfully, it isn't all that frequent, but last night/today just seemed to throw up several bad examples.

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Sure it happens, but the dd's need to be radar aware and adjust their tactics....Cruisers need to try and flank the radar ships.......It is possible to win against the odds, but as you say if you are getting the scenario reversed for other games then it is balanced. MM should try and take this into consideration but the algorithm to do this may mean waiting longer for games to start.....idk, just my opinion. :Smile_sceptic:

 

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When playing my Destroyers I try to remember the effective ranges of enemy Radar... When detected I try to make the smallest target and flee and speed. But, there are times when engaged in a fight you cannot fully concentrate and they get you.

Just watch where the Cruisers are and try to anticipate what they are trying to do that should be enough to avoid detection or enable a quick escape if you are..

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does that kind of radar disparity mean an auto-loss? hell no

does radar disparity actually have a meaningful impact on chances of victory? no idea, I dimly seem to recall someone from WG said they actually looked at the numbers and there wasnt a big difference but not sure whether I'm not just making that up (i.e. I dont have a source/proof to quote^^)

does it feel hella annoying when it happens, especially if you're in a DD? oh you bet it does...

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I don't want to be that DD that doesn't try to cap, and have all the BB players and their wives shouting to gtf in the cap. But in one of those games, all 3 dds were wiped out in minutes, leaving the other team then with radar AND complete DD supremacy.

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36 minutes ago, dws010363 said:

I don't want to be that DD that doesn't try to cap, and have all the BB players and their wives shouting to gtf in the cap. But in one of those games, all 3 dds were wiped out in minutes, leaving the other team then with radar AND complete DD supremacy.

Sometimes you have to ignore the baying crowd. If there are radar cruisers around, then skirt around the cap until you can see where they are on the mini map. Always make sure in all circumstance that you have either support or an escape plan (Island to hide your escape) ready. Support means cruisers, not battleships so far back. Help your cruisers by smoking them up, but most potatoes cruisers will sail through it. Your duty as a DD Captain is first and foremost to survive. The team that keeps its DDs usually wins.

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1 hour ago, dws010363 said:

Anyone have a view on this. In several tier VII games today, 2 where the enemy team has 2 or 3 radar cruisers to our none, and 1 game where it was the other way around and we had 2 radar to their none. Results predictable. DDs cant get near enough to contest the caps, team with radar cruisers quickly take a points lead by having control of the caps, even if they haven't already wrecked the non radar teams DDs with focused fire from half a dozen ships.

 

This is not a go at radar cruisers btw, but a matchmaking issue which creates an unbalanced game. You try and cap against a Belfast and an Atlanta hiding behind an island while he and his concealed DDs pour fire onto you, while your own cruisers cannot find or engage any of them. It only ends one way.

 

7 isn't that bad yet, you get good MM and only Atlanta, Indianapolis and Payfast have radars at that tier. When you are at 8... There is almost guaranteed to be a radar every game, and the real fun begins when enemy team has both - DD and Radar - number advantage :cap_like: Perfectly fair MM you know, no problems there :cap_hmm:

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1 hour ago, Captain_Breeze said:

Sure it happens, but the dd's need to be radar aware and adjust their tactics....Cruisers need to try and flank the radar ships......

 

 

Which implies that there would be some kind of teamwork at all...

Of course I could and do adapt, but simply cruising around and not being able to do damage or cap is not really enjoyable (and doesn't get you anywhere xp-wise).

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If your DDs got wiped out in minutes by radar, then you had a bigger and more fundamental problem with your team than just the radar imbalance!

 

With that said; radar is something that should be capped and balanced across the two teams, there's no reason for it not to be. It can be influential in cases of huge imbalance across the teams or in games where both sides have a lot of it, but it's generally an exaggerated issue that doesn't have too great of an effect in most games. It does have the potential, however, to become a bigger issue if cruisers ever became as numerous in the MM as they should be, or if more ships with radar keep being added. It would be nice if WG were to implement some MM restrictions on it but as things stand right now there are much bigger things to worry about.

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1 minute ago, Kharazas said:

 

Which implies that there would be some kind of teamwork at all...

Of course I could and do adapt, but simply cruising around and not being able to do damage or cap is not really enjoyable (and doesn't get you anywhere xp-wise).

I know mate, that's true, but the alternative is to be radar-ed and die.....or hope that the enemy radar ships are rubbish.....

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3 hours ago, Kharazas said:

 

Which implies that there would be some kind of teamwork at all...

Of course I could and do adapt, but simply cruising around and not being able to do damage or cap is not really enjoyable (and doesn't get you anywhere xp-wise).

 

Exactly. Early game, if you cant contest the caps, and the enemy wins one or two (or all three as was the case in one game last night) you quickly begin to run a points deficit on top of losing DDs that try to get in. No one could see let alone dislodge the Belfast from one cap.

 

@rvfharrier, yes the problem is often more fundamental than radar cruisers, as even at T7, many players simply can't work together or even communicate. Many times I've called out for help/a plan in chat, only to get nothing back. But that isn't the point I was making. The point I was making is that when the enemy (or your own team) has two cruisers (or even three) such as the Belfast and a Chapev, while you have no radar, as a DD you start out at a big disadvantage. With the enemy's counter racking up like a fruit machine on steroids, add in the regulation potato or three, and the odd afk here and there, and the game can easily be over as a contest in a matter of minutes.

 

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Agree with your sentiment though - radar is fairer when balanced. If you have 2 radar cruisers vs none, you have a definite advantage.

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5 hours ago, dws010363 said:

I don't want to be that DD that doesn't try to cap, and have all the BB players and their wives shouting to gtf in the cap

always ignore bb players :X. and as long as your not that dd that goes flank torping and leaves the cap completely alone your  probably doing it right,

if you do not get the suport of your team especialy with radar cruisers there is nothing u can do.  and u do not have to go in the cap to contest if its not possible. just survive and come back later when the oportunity arives.

 

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The problem with wg is they rely too much on stats. I strongly agree that mm should be fixes regarding radar ships and DD numbers (and types). Domination matches where one team has a Khaba while other team has 2 Gearings are not exactly fair too.

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As a DD "captain" one has to remember the range of radar, it's duration and it's recycling time. And when there's two radar ships and three caps, it means usually one cap is eadar free...

 

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8 hours ago, dws010363 said:

2 or 3 radar cruisers to our none

 

Wait till you get 4 Missouri + 5 radar cruiser MM. :cap_like:

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Of all the MM problems, the radar distribution isn't one constantly in my experience. It's usually quite well distributed. Granted for a few exceptional cases. 

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9 hours ago, dws010363 said:

Anyone have a view on this. In several tier VII games today, 2 where the enemy team has 2 or 3 radar cruisers to our none, and 1 game where it was the other way around and we had 2 radar to their none. Results predictable. DDs cant get near enough to contest the caps, team with radar cruisers quickly take a points lead by having control of the caps, even if they haven't already wrecked the non radar teams DDs with focused fire from half a dozen ships.

 

This is not a go at radar cruisers btw, but a matchmaking issue which creates an unbalanced game. You try and cap against a Belfast and an Atlanta hiding behind an island while he and his concealed DDs pour fire onto you, while your own cruisers cannot find or engage any of them. It only ends one way.

 

This has been pointed out multiple times. They probably won't fix it because it would increase waiting times too much. Its the same with DDs. Sometimes your team has Khaba and Tashkent and enemy team 3 stealth DDs. That loss is almost guaranteed.

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1 hour ago, Dampfboot said:

hey probably won't fix it because it would increase waiting times too much.

i feel like this is just a lame excuse tho. the waiting times are very low as it is. and havving MM balance radars or some dds would not be an issue.

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on one hand you need to be radar aware and know your ships. On the other hand radar and hydro shouldnt be able to go through islands -_-

 

The mm should also account for radar ships in order to balance out teams a bit better.

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11 hours ago, Tyrendian89 said:

does that kind of radar disparity mean an auto-loss? hell no

does radar disparity actually have a meaningful impact on chances of victory? no idea, I dimly seem to recall someone from WG said they actually looked at the numbers and there wasnt a big difference but not sure whether I'm not just making that up (i.e. I dont have a source/proof to quote^^)

does it feel hella annoying when it happens, especially if you're in a DD? oh you bet it does...

Depends on the map. On north a single radar ship can close down the 2 middle caps add to that the enemy do not get a radar ship and the ods are stacked agist one team. Its no autowin thogh.

 

Open water thogh the real problem is the buffs tehy do to bring minimum detection ranges and radar ranges ever closer together. another perceived problem is that a radar ship at times can pushyou away just by its presence while DD torps cant even reach them...

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I play a fair few Radar equipped ships, and a lot of DD's so I'm reasonably aware of the effect of radar.

In my opinion it would help the game quality if the matchmaker made some allowance and balanced the teams for the number of radars, as it is (ignoring radar ship divisions) I've seen many cases of one side having multiple radars and the other none. Those games are often (but not always) quite unbalanced.

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