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US Navy CV changes

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Dear Captains,

 

In order to help the versatility of U.S. carriers we made significant changes to the flight control modules - please share your feedback on this!

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Where are my old stock modules? Before you made such changes and removed hull A on a ship (Amagi, Izumo), the module was still in inventory. Now they are gone.

 

Before we had a choice, more fighters or more bombers ... that made US CV unique. Now, unlike the Japanese, you have no choice. For a better balance, change the Japanese aircraft carriers to just one setup. Or keep the new set up, but give us the old choice.

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2 hours ago, longley89 said:

Essex is now weaker than before update.. Nice

 

I agree. Its worse now. Its bad in everything. Old strike did damage and AS ruled sky, now you dont neither. 

 

17 games today. -1100 to PR, -10% WR. 'nuff said.

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I'm enjoying myself very much with Lexington tbh. The 1/1/2 setup is perfectly serviceable, providing good alpha strike without giving up air control entirely.

I really like the smaller tech tree AP bomb manual drop circle. Can we get that on Big E, too? I'd even accept getting the enlarged circle when disrupted for it. :)

There are only two things I would improve:

- Service times are still far too long, I suggest cutting them down by an overall value of at least 5 seconds, if not more. You already have to play with fewer squads for larger squadrons, getting another handicap on top of it is a bit too much.

- Fighter reserves on the Lexington are a bit too low. I'd gladly trade ~4 reserve DBs for additional fighters. Or instead maybe you could even increase the amount of total reserves to ~80 to preserve national flavor (USN CVs usually have more reserves than IJN ones) and allocate most of that to fighters. It doesn't particularly make sense that Ranger has higher reserves than Lexington anyway, even if it's only by 1 plane.

- The damage AP bombs deal against high tier BBs is woefully inadequate and inferior compared to what HE bombs are capable of. We were promised stronger AP bombs for higher tiers. Where are they? As it stands right now AP bombs at higher tiers are an anti-cruiser weapon more than anything else. Surely that cannot be the intention.

For a comparison between the performance of AP and HE bombs on T9+ BB targets, see here:

 

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AP bombs are just not doing enough damage... especially against high tier BBs. worthless compared to HE bombs to be honest.

 

Was this supposed to be "USN CV rework"? Releasing bombs weaker than what we already had...

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On 11/30/2017 at 8:47 AM, lord_darth_vader_bg said:

Where are my old stock modules? Before you made such changes and removed hull A on a ship (Amagi, Izumo), the module was still in inventory. Now they are gone.

 

Before we had a choice, more fighters or more bombers ... that made US CV unique. Now, unlike the Japanese, you have no choice. For a better balance, change the Japanese aircraft carriers to just one setup. Or keep the new set up, but give us the old choice.

 

The old stock modules were sold for you, so you did not lose out on any credits :Smile_medal:

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Thanks for giving the ranger strike setup a fighter squad!! So far i really like to deal damage AND protect my planes^^ I think this will make the ranger grind way more enjoyable... The old strike and AS-setups were all these kind of "all or nothing" setups that i didnt really enjoy. So i went with the stock setup that was the same since langley i reckon? Kinda boring i you ask me^^. Thats why my thanks for this new setup that can deal damage and fight for air superioritiy!

 

If there is one thing i do dislike, then its that you completly removed all setup-choices...why not just keep the AS-setup? Yeah i know, AS is debatable but i know quite a lot of people that enjoyed it. With the latest patch, you see a ranger in the enemy team and you can be sure which setup he has right from the start. Thats a bit sad and takes away the variety!

 

But overall i am pleased with the changes. Keep it up!

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Why was it so hard to keep the old AS/Strike setups and replace the default one with the new setup ? You took all choice away.

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Played 1 Essex game yesterday managed to get decent damage even though strong T10 AA and all. I will say though TB are really to weak.

They get shreadded as soon as you go onto a BB with at least decent AA doesn´t have too be too much. DB are fine as they are T9.

 

I will continue playing and see what my opinion would be since 1 game is not even close to forming one.

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One game can be anything. Also played first Essex game today at "unicum" level with 115k or so damage but thats just one game. Used to do 113k average and with this present tub its impossible. On a good game +150k sure but those +240-250k games that I used to... You just run out of attack planes far before that. And after that you just fly around with spare fighters...

 

Is Midway any better?

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On ‎29‎.‎11‎.‎2017 at 7:33 PM, Crysantos said:

Dear Captains,

 

In order to help the versatility of U.S. carriers we made significant changes to the flight control modules - please share your feedback on this!

 

Why dont u write, we made them unplayable? And why dont you remove the CVs for ever? Makes it easier for all here.

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"For all U.S. carriers, we'll remove the possibility to select Flight Control modules. These changes will increase the versatility of U.S. carriers"

This is the most laughably stupid statement I have seen from WG, even more stupid than "we treat all regions equally".

Removing choices somehow increases player agency? Who wrote this garbage? *Edited

 

Regardless of whether or not you like the balance changes made to USN CVs, this statement is just patently untrue. Maybe if you stopped trying to spout such ridiculous garbage the EU community might actually stop losing respect for you (ha ha ha).

 

*Edited

Edited by Nohe21
*This post has been edited by the moderation team due to disrespectful and non constructive comments.
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Not too happy about the changes. At the very least the Air Strike module should've been kept. As it stands right now you will neither gain full air dom (at the very least Japanese CVs are now able to contest it) nor will you outdamage them. Japanese CVs now have a more then decent air fighting chance (I dont even wanna meet a Hakuryu with 4 fighters) and will still outdamage you. Also how is a Lexington now supposed to fight the Graf Zeppelin? - Unless the lockup occurs right over friendly AA the GZ will win every single fight.

 

I truly believe this setup to not be too bad if you wanted to replace the old all or nothing strike loadout but removing the AS module was a big mistake which also clearly removed some variety in gameplay. It also means yet another problem for all the other guys as air support won't be able to be maintained.

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Where is the versatility here ? For example tier VI U.S. carriers  have 3 squad when IJN have 5 squads , also U.S.  have 37 planes in hangar and IJN have 48 .. You guys screw up all the U.S. line . Not to mentioned now you cant select any flight module , we are stuck forever with the same type of fight , at the time IJN can still select many other flight modules. I dont understand wy you guys have to destroy exactly the good think what was in this game. With carriers we have the choice to choose how we play , now we cant anymore ! Im very disapointed about this change .

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20 hours ago, Senjougahara said:

"For all U.S. carriers, we'll remove the possibility to select Flight Control modules. These changes will increase the versatility of U.S. carriers"

This is the most laughably stupid statement I have seen from WG, even more stupid than "we treat all regions equally".

Removing choices somehow increases player agency? Who wrote this garbage? You need to see a doctor and get your head examined.

 

Regardless of whether or not you like the balance changes made to USN CVs, this statement is just patently untrue. Maybe if you stopped trying to spout such ridiculous garbage the EU community might actually stop losing respect for you (ha ha ha).

 

You should add a disclaimer to all news posts that reading it may cause you brain damage from the mental gymnastics you need to perform to understand WG """logic""".

Incomprehensible this.   These changes  decreased  the versatility of U.S. carriers. 

And AP bombs is not that good. Not really good choice use AP bombs.  If you use  AP bombs, you no chance  if one  destroyer attack against you.  Midway  is exception, because  of 2 TB squadron, you have more chance to kill DD. 

Need any CPT  skill    to ability switch bomb type in battle. This skill  increase efficiency AP bombs.

 

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14 hours ago, JollyRoger1516 said:

Also how is a Lexington now supposed to fight the Graf Zeppelin? - Unless the lockup occurs right over friendly AA the GZ will win every single fight

 

How? Better than before. Strike setup used to be 0-1-3 - no fighters what so ever. Think about it. 

 

If you miss the AS loadout I am only glad. Its useless in every tier. The best you can do is black out enemy CV aka play 0-0 in football terms. If enemy CV gets even one strike in you have failed and done worse in your AS loadout. And thats relatively easy - strike where your fighters arent or if you spread them around you easily overrun one and get strike done. 

 

What I do agree is this this should also apply to IJN CVs. You can still run 3-1-1(?) Ryijo at T6, 4-2-2 Haku and so on. These should be removed as well. 

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32 minutes ago, LongJohn_ said:

If you miss the AS loadout I am only glad. Its useless in every tier.

1) So you enjoy the fact that people can no longer play a certain style even though they enjoyed that and might even have been good in it just because you aren't and don't like it. What a credit to the community you are... People like you are the reason why games constantly get dumbed down to hell because others fail to adapt and to see value in diversity. We'll see how much you like this change in the coming weeks when you will be under attack non stop and completely unopposed as Air Dominance disappeared from US CVs.

 

2) Not only were the DBs still useful at DD hunting and supporting BB strikes especially when coordinating with the firestarters in your team but a good air strike CV could completely deplete an enemy CV so yes he might get one or two but then he is done - no more spots, drops, nothing while his team is now under completely unopposed spots and dmg.

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2 hours ago, JollyRoger1516 said:

1) So you enjoy the fact that people can no longer play a certain style even though they enjoyed that and might even have been good in it just because you aren't and don't like it. What a credit to the community you are... People like you are the reason why games constantly get dumbed down to hell because others fail to adapt and to see value in diversity. We'll see how much you like this change in the coming weeks when you will be under attack non stop and completely unopposed as Air Dominance disappeared from US CVs.

 

2) Not only were the DBs still useful at DD hunting and supporting BB strikes especially when coordinating with the firestarters in your team but a good air strike CV could completely deplete an enemy CV so yes he might get one or two but then he is done - no more spots, drops, nothing while his team is now under completely unopposed spots and dmg.

 

First: WG does what it does to the game. My personal opinion has nothing to do with it. So dont blame me for any changes.

 

Second: Did you read what I wrote? You can black out enemy CV with AS loadout but thats pretty much it. Even if you do it perfectly you can only play 0-0 with the enemy. In most cases enemy CV gets strike or two through and at that point he can lose all remaining aircraft it has and its still ahead in team effort. After that AS CV can fly around spotting at most. 

 

Perhaps you liked AS gameplay and thats your personal preference but overall team effort is indicated by PR on each ship. Overall CV gameplay is tripod. Air control - dealing damage - spotting. AS loadouts were strongly biased to first and last leaving dealing damage to very limited levels. For example you have done 20k avg damage on Lexington. On other hand strike loadouts were strongly biased to damage and spotting leaving most of air control to IJN CVs. There hasnt been so called well balanced loadouts available. IJN have. 

 

And while AS loadout is/was so strongly biased to air control and has/had so limited capacity to deal damage itself its also very vulnerable to attacks. You can spot approaching DD but if your team sucks you cant do that much about it. Same with overall gameplay. You can play 0-0 with enemy CV, at best, so neither can get kills but after that its all about the team. AS CV is just as good as its team, if after all spots team sucks you cant do much more. Like your 20k avg dmg also indicates.

 

Edit: I think Lexingtons present loadout is pretty functional. I dont see GZs with theit 10 plane fightersquad the problem but the Shokakus and Enterprices with their two fighter squads. But even then its possible. If enemy CV clumps fighters together just strike another side of map where the fighters arent. Or if he spreads them out to cpver whole map you can easiliy overmatch single Shoka/Enterprice fightersquad with Lex 7 plane squad and create window for attack. Doable.

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1 hour ago, LongJohn_ said:

 

First: WG does what it does to the game. My personal opinion has nothing to do with it. So dont blame me for any changes.

 

Second: Did you read what I wrote? You can black out enemy CV with AS loadout but thats pretty much it. Even if you do it perfectly you can only play 0-0 with the enemy. In most cases enemy CV gets strike or two through and at that point he can lose all remaining aircraft it has and its still ahead in team effort. After that AS CV can fly around spotting at most. 

 

Perhaps you liked AS gameplay and thats your personal preference but overall team effort is indicated by PR on each ship. Overall CV gameplay is tripod. Air control - dealing damage - spotting. AS loadouts were strongly biased to first and last leaving dealing damage to very limited levels. For example you have done 20k avg damage on Lexington. On other hand strike loadouts were strongly biased to damage and spotting leaving most of air control to IJN CVs. There hasnt been so called well balanced loadouts available. IJN have. 

 

And while AS loadout is/was so strongly biased to air control and has/had so limited capacity to deal damage itself its also very vulnerable to attacks. You can spot approaching DD but if your team sucks you cant do that much about it. Same with overall gameplay. You can play 0-0 with enemy CV, at best, so neither can get kills but after that its all about the team. AS CV is just as good as its team, if after all spots team sucks you cant do much more. Like your 20k avg dmg also indicates.

 

Edit: I think Lexingtons present loadout is pretty functional. I dont see GZs with theit 10 plane fightersquad the problem but the Shokakus and Enterprices with their two fighter squads. But even then its possible. If enemy CV clumps fighters together just strike another side of map where the fighters arent. Or if he spreads them out to cpver whole map you can easiliy overmatch single Shoka/Enterprice fightersquad with Lex 7 plane squad and create window for attack. Doable.

It is a shame that those stat lists of yours don't show the average spotting dmg. Cause that one will heavily outweigh the actual dmg and make up for it in large amounts. Also a stat not seen is spots prevented. But this is exactly why crap disappears from game because people only see one dimensional charts.

Frankly I couldnt give a rats arse about stats.

I heavily disagree with your idea of 0-0 - while so when it comes to rewards the game is in fact about much more then just dmg done.Youa re right about one thing though - AS CVs depended on their team and that could go either way but frankly that is not a bad thing. Contrary to popular belief not everything in this game needs to be able to solo carry games all the time. The current powercreep is exactly the result of this. One powerful ship necessitates the next one and so on with no end in sight. Teamwork should be the deciding factor - shitty teams while frustrating were nonetheless a factor I could accept as part of the game.

 

And in the end I have at no point said that the new strike loadout shouldnt be in the game. My main point is removing the AS module was a big mistake and in addition also taking variety from the game.

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48 minutes ago, JollyRoger1516 said:

It is a shame that those stat lists of yours don't show the average spotting dmg. Cause that one will heavily outweigh the actual dmg and make up for it in large amounts. Also a stat not seen is spots prevented. But this is exactly why crap disappears from game because people only see one dimensional charts.

Frankly I couldnt give a rats arse about stats.

I heavily disagree with your idea of 0-0 - while so when it comes to rewards the game is in fact about much more then just dmg done.

 

Like I said spotting is one of three key aspects of CV gameplay. You can do it with fighters but actually DBs are better spotters and you dont have to waste fighters to hover above DD. That way AS loadout doesnt have edge over strike. Those +200k spotting damages are normal even with old strike Lex - 0-1-3, no fighters. Nothing special there. Of course you can hit that DD with DB first and then stay spotting - and thats already more than fighter can do. You fly your fighter to stop DB spotting? Empty DB is faster so you cant catch it and at the same time you opened your fighter defence somewhere else.

 

Why do you disagree with 0-0 thought? Think about it. Ok you kill all planes enemy CV has, maybe he gets some damage done, maybe the same you did with your bombers. CV game ends 0-0 and rest depends on rest of the team. And thats best you can do. Maybe ninja kill or two from badly damaged ships but thats it. One full strike from enemy CV deleting for example BB in your team and he is in the lead you cant reach - even if you kill all his planes. Of course their team can mess it up but like said thats up to the team.

 

And present loadouts arent strike. They are balanced across the line. 1-1-1 up to Independence, 1-1-2 at Ranger and Lex, 2-1-2 at Essex and 2-2-2 at Midway. Now they can better fulfil that triangle I told about. Air control - damage - spotting. They arent as heavily biased to single direction like old AS-strike options were. 

 

I understand your anger. You've used to AS loadout. I used to strike and personally didnt like new Essex that much. 

 

edit: Did I read right, 61 CV games played? Ever?

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3 hours ago, LongJohn_ said:

 

Like I said spotting is one of three key aspects of CV gameplay. You can do it with fighters but actually DBs are better spotters and you dont have to waste fighters to hover above DD. That way AS loadout doesnt have edge over strike. Those +200k spotting damages are normal even with old strike Lex - 0-1-3, no fighters. Nothing special there. Of course you can hit that DD with DB first and then stay spotting - and thats already more than fighter can do. You fly your fighter to stop DB spotting? Empty DB is faster so you cant catch it and at the same time you opened your fighter defence somewhere else.

 

Why do you disagree with 0-0 thought? Think about it. Ok you kill all planes enemy CV has, maybe he gets some damage done, maybe the same you did with your bombers. CV game ends 0-0 and rest depends on rest of the team. And thats best you can do. Maybe ninja kill or two from badly damaged ships but thats it. One full strike from enemy CV deleting for example BB in your team and he is in the lead you cant reach - even if you kill all his planes. Of course their team can mess it up but like said thats up to the team.

 

And present loadouts arent strike. They are balanced across the line. 1-1-1 up to Independence, 1-1-2 at Ranger and Lex, 2-1-2 at Essex and 2-2-2 at Midway. Now they can better fulfil that triangle I told about. Air control - damage - spotting. They arent as heavily biased to single direction like old AS-strike options were. 

 

I understand your anger. You've used to AS loadout. I used to strike and personally didnt like new Essex that much. 

 

edit: Did I read right, 61 CV games played? Ever?

 

As a DD player, I prefer competent AS CV to a competent Strike CV ... but that's just me .. You cannot move enemy CV planes with strike aircraft, only with fighters.

 

Yes a balanced loadout should be best of both in theory, but balanced usually means one aspect sucks as there are 2 strike aircraft type and only one fighter craft type.

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3 hours ago, LongJohn_ said:

 

Like I said spotting is one of three key aspects of CV gameplay. You can do it with fighters but actually DBs are better spotters and you dont have to waste fighters to hover above DD. That way AS loadout doesnt have edge over strike. Those +200k spotting damages are normal even with old strike Lex - 0-1-3, no fighters. Nothing special there. Of course you can hit that DD with DB first and then stay spotting - and thats already more than fighter can do. You fly your fighter to stop DB spotting? Empty DB is faster so you cant catch it and at the same time you opened your fighter defence somewhere else.

 

Why do you disagree with 0-0 thought? Think about it. Ok you kill all planes enemy CV has, maybe he gets some damage done, maybe the same you did with your bombers. CV game ends 0-0 and rest depends on rest of the team. And thats best you can do. Maybe ninja kill or two from badly damaged ships but thats it. One full strike from enemy CV deleting for example BB in your team and he is in the lead you cant reach - even if you kill all his planes. Of course their team can mess it up but like said thats up to the team.

 

And present loadouts arent strike. They are balanced across the line. 1-1-1 up to Independence, 1-1-2 at Ranger and Lex, 2-1-2 at Essex and 2-2-2 at Midway. Now they can better fulfil that triangle I told about. Air control - damage - spotting. They arent as heavily biased to single direction like old AS-strike options were. 

 

I understand your anger. You've used to AS loadout. I used to strike and personally didnt like new Essex that much. 

 

edit: Did I read right, 61 CV games played? Ever?

The Problem is they removed AS from US but NOT IJN. Now you can argue "oh but nobodys uses blabla" but fact is good luck if you meet a competent IJN Skipper that does......there is also the priblem that US gets their balaced while IJN has to get past the stupid base loadout grind.....

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7 hours ago, Hugh_Ruka said:

 

As a DD player, I prefer competent AS CV to a competent Strike CV ... but that's just me .. You cannot move enemy CV planes with strike aircraft, only with fighters.

 

Yes a balanced loadout should be best of both in theory, but balanced usually means one aspect sucks as there are 2 strike aircraft type and only one fighter craft type.

 

Yep. I understand this and I know teams prefer AS loadout over strike. In best case they have enemy CV black out and some spotting so basically CVs remove themselves and you get a "normal" game in other shipclass. 

 

And it sure does effect your gameplay. As DD you might be spotted much easier or even permaspotted by planes, as cruiser you have to be ready to defend capital ships from air attacks and BBs are good to clump up for AA cover. It changes everyones gameplay, you cant solo that much. 

 

Balanced and balanced. I guess they are now better balanced than before. Before you got either good strike potential and even no air control at all (strike Lex) or very good air control and poor damage potential (AS Lex). It was very strongly biased to one or other. Spotting itself can be done with either planetype so thats not that much of issue.

 

I think things are best shifted at T9-10 where both USN CVs have two fighters and in most cases under same skill level control the sky. 

 

But sure. IJN still have more squads and therefore are even more versatile in action. They get full balanced 2-2-2 at T7, USN at T9-10. 

 

 

7 hours ago, Spellfire40 said:

The Problem is they removed AS from US but NOT IJN. Now you can argue "oh but nobodys uses blabla" but fact is good luck if you meet a competent IJN Skipper that does......there is also the priblem that US gets their balaced while IJN has to get past the stupid base loadout grind.....

 

This is true and I mentioned this somewhere in earlier comments. You can still meet 3-1-1(?) AS Ryijo at T6 or 4-2-2 AS Haku in T10.. These should be balanced as well. 

 

Sure you can work around both since most AS players in my experience arent that good. Very large portion is point and click types which are annoying but also rather easy to manage.

 

Example. Couple weeks ago I met AS Taiho (3-2-1 or something) in my old strike Essex (1-1-3). So no point starting head on attack with fighters because you lose. So after a while of "hitting where fighters arent" (clumped all to 3x5 "deathball") I noticed he clicked them to kill off my empty DB. All of them. As you propably know empty DBs are faster than fighters so they will never catch it. I put that DB run around the whole map, almost corner to corner and those fighters kept following. Followed about full circle and a half, after that I needed my bomber again so flew it to my CV and killed following fighters with CV AA hovering that DB above my CV. Meanwhile I could strike what ever I wanted and kill his strikeplanes with my fighters... Laughing my butt off doing it. 

 

Other thing I preferred doing against AS loadouts is send DB to behind lines. Drop bombs to sea so its faster than fighters but enemy doesnt know that. Spot their entire battleline including CV. Fighters come along chasing wild goosechase, cruisers rush to protect CV from "sniping"... Messing up everything. Meanwhile fighters are gone and you can strike real targets in frontline. 

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