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Deepwater Torpedoes

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Dear Captains,

 

With the release of the Pan-Asian line of warships, players get access to a new type of weapon, deepwater torpedoes. Please tell us about the general implementation of this mechanic (UI, etc.) and it's gameplay behaviour for you!

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(firstly from historical/realistic point of view these torpedos have to be fitted with magnetic detonators which (if i skipped the fact that they werent completelly reliable during ww2 ) were mounted on torpedos shortly before ww2. basically the t6 destroyer is the first one which could have these torpedos and destroyers before t6 shouldnt have them. deep water torpedos before t6 are one of the most drastic deviations from history/ reality which have made it into the game....and for what really?)

EDIT: they are maybe intended as torpedos with contact detonators which just run deeper than regular torpedos?

 

secondly - from gameplay point of view deep water torpedos shouldnt be on low tiers because i can see lot of tier 2 pan-asian dds sending torps towards enemy dds and tier 3 battleship captains dying (and eventually complaining) about invisible torps and have no clue whats going on...

 

deep water torps are just advance technique and belong to high tiers for more skilled players but also they should be nothing more than an option for these dds. the whole concept to build a tree around them is just nonsense. i would give pan-asian dds just regular torpedos and from t6 unlockable upgrade for deep water ones which would trade some traits of the regular ones. like more stealthy, more damage but slower or shorter range...but to make the whole line focused around them is not worth the push of the absurdity level so much higher not to mention that in the end these dds are not 100% focused around them at all.

Edited by puxflacet
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50 minutes ago, puxflacet said:

deep water torps are just advance technique and belong to high tiers for more skilled players but also they should be nothing more than an option for these dds. the whole concept to build a tree around them is just nonsense. 

 

This. I absolutely expected the deep water torpedos to be optional and don't understand how they can be a forced option.

On the low tier they are ridiculously stupid. Jian Wei for instance has 6.2 or something detectability and 6km deep water torpedoes. For what do I need deep water torpedos if I cannot stealth torp? Who tested this?

 

 

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deep water torpedoes do not hit dds shipwreck is that normal for you wargaming 

i tried to hit dds wreck with it and i failed  

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14 hours ago, Titan_net said:

 

This. I absolutely expected the deep water torpedos to be optional and don't understand how they can be a forced option.

On the low tier they are ridiculously stupid. Jian Wei for instance has 6.2 or something detectability and 6km deep water torpedoes. For what do I need deep water torpedos if I cannot stealth torp? Who tested this?

 

 

All PA DDs are clones of already existing tech tree line DDs. Don't like DWT? Simply play the original from a different ship line and you are good to go. Other than that, learn to play, learn to ambush, learn to trick BBs to charge you in your smoke and torp them from there - same tactics other DDs with shorter range torpedoes do it since years with success.

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On 11/30/2017 at 0:26 PM, puxflacet said:

firstly from historical/realistic point of view these torpedos have to be fitted with magnetic detonators which (if i skipped the fact that they werent completelly reliable during ww2 ) were mounted on torpedos shortly before ww2. basically the t6 destroyer is the first one which could have these torpedos and destroyers before t6 shouldnt have them. deep water torpedos before t6 are one of the most drastic deviations from history/ reality which have made it into the game....and for what really?

 

secondly - from gameplay point of view deep water torpedos shouldnt be on low tiers because i can see lot of tier 2 pan-asian dds sending torps towards enemy dds and tier 3 battleship captains dying (and eventually complaining) about invisible torps and have no clue whats going on...

 

deep water torps are just advance technique and belong to high tiers for more skilled players but also they should be nothing more than an option for these dds. the whole concept to build a tree around them is just nonsense. i would give pan-asian dds just regular torpedos and from t6 unlockable upgrade for deep water ones which would trade some traits of the regular ones. like more stealthy, more damage but slower or shorter range...but to make the whole line focused around them is not worth the push of the absurdity level so much higher not to mention that in the end these dds are not 100% focused around them at all.

 

NOPE !

 

DW torps and magnetic detonators have nothing in common. Adjusting the running depth based on the target draft was the normal thing to do for any submarine crew. Since the same torpedoes were used on surface ships, it is the same there. However we have no choice in this in the game. WG simply decided that the "normal" torpedoes have a running depth where they hit destroyers and DW torps have a deeper running depth, so they go under destroyers.

 

If DW torps had magnetic detonators, they'd explode under destroyers anyway since those are non-contact detonators :-)

 

Basically WG created another half-realistic half-unfinished implementation of a weapon system in order to justify the existence of a ship line ....

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On 1. 12. 2017 at 0:54 PM, Hugh_Ruka said:

DW torps and magnetic detonators have nothing in common....

...If DW torps had magnetic detonators, they'd explode under destroyers anyway since those are non-contact detonators :-)

 

they have everything in common. magnetic detonators were primarily used on torpedos running under the ship's keel. if this torpedo is set for battleship draft it shouldn't explode under a destroyer...but indeed those in the game are probably intended as torpedos with contact detonators which just run deeper

 

...

 

still stands that im against these torpedos at low tiers. right now literally every longjiang is sending torps towards enemy dds

as said i would prefer them as either unlockable upgrade...

or maybe even switchable option during the match:

  • either you send your torpedos set as regular which would hit everything but did less damage
  • or set as deep water (with magnetic det, exploding under the ship) which would be more stealthy, did more damage but would hit only battleships and carriers (not cruisers)

...but from tier 6 on. not before

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I still don't even know what deep water torps do. News has only said that they are not more stealthy, and that's the only thing I can imagine they would be, that or slightly faster due to avoiding surface turbulance. I'm not interested in playing the ships to find out. What do they actually do?

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On 12/4/2017 at 0:55 AM, StringWitch said:

I still don't even know what deep water torps do. News has only said that they are not more stealthy, and that's the only thing I can imagine they would be, that or slightly faster due to avoiding surface turbulance. I'm not interested in playing the ships to find out. What do they actually do?

 

DW torps have aprox 800m detection on average. so yes, they are more stealthy. detection via hydro works as normal. they cannot hit DDs.

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Note: This post will be related to another one on the thread "Pan-Asian destroyers" Both posts will probably be long and rich in negative feedback, but I will try to keep them construcctive (just try, no promises)

Pan asian post: 

 

 

TL, DR: Current DW torpedo punishes weak members of the current ecosystem without affecting the undesired parasitic lazy coward snipping BB overpopullation. Current DW implementation vs draft based has absolutely no point. Man up, bring some complexity into the game, and let all DDs choose in battle their torpedo depth!

 

Post:

 

I do not get it... I seriously do not get the point of this DW mechanic. You had the opportunity of implementing a slightly complex mechanic (draft dependent impact) which you then decided to dumb down so that the weapon interacts only with the in-game classes rather than geometry / any kind of physical magnitude as the whole ballistics system seems, and even praises itself, to work ("realistic" penetration and armor model...). This leads, for example, to the puzzling situation reported by some people (I have not seen it yet in game, I´d be glad if someone else either confirms it or denies it with evidence) by which DW torps simply ignore DD wrecks...

By creating a torpedo with clear striking potential advantage due to the greatly reduced reaction time you introduced a clear threat against BBs and Cruisers. Cruisers, specially the lazier heavy cruisers, for sure do not need more threats, and the BBs affected are the ones closer to the action. Yes, sometimes you might pull off a long torpedo attack against an snipping lazy BB at the very back, but most of the times you´d prioritize the biggest meannest hulking beast whcih is closer to you... Because in this way you minimize the common problem to any torpedo attack: not the reaction time, but the travel time to target, the longer this time, the wider the spread (lower damage density) and the highest the chances of your target pullling an unexpected maneuver (if map and positioning allows it, oh look yet ANOTHER underwater citadel BB, they do not care that much about risking a maneuver and hence they can pull off more unexpected course changes! Whole bloody RN and USN tier IX and X buff, looking at you!). In other words, the current extra threat of these DW torpedoes is towards cruisers (already endangered species) and aggressive BBs (as common as unicorns sometimes) not against the useless underperforming snipping BBs.

 

Moreover, this DW mechanic is once again an "overspecialized" weapon in the same way as the "old" USN CVs loadouts were overspecialized and hence made them unable to adapt to how the battle evolved, which has made you collapse the 2 overspecialized options into one single versatile loadout... Ironically enough, in the same patch in which you introduce an overspecialized torpedo which will never be able to hit DDs (not even their sinking wrecks...), which as previously stated brings a bigger threat to endangered species on the ecosystem than the parasitic snipping and coward BB with over 80% hp 15 minutes into the game whcih was lost 10 minutes ago... We can all relate to this scenario (Not to mention the frustration which will bring into new players at tier 3 and 4 specially with the ridiculously OP tier 4 pan asian DD)

 

Looking back, you were toying with the idea of making the impact draft-dependant... this would have allowed for good players to maybe sometimes pull enough roll as to avoid the torpedo impact: Rewarding good defensive actions, whilst at the same time granting you the possibility of balancing more carefully each DW torp, but no... you had to dumbify it down... Rather than that, I propose the opposite direction: DO complicate it, DO model draft dependent impact (come on!!! you were close to this!!!), and DO offer ALL DDs the possibility of selecting in battle the draft for their torpedoes. Easy example, use the keys 3, 4 and 5 for shallow, medium and deep draft configured torpedoes, if need be go through the whole laoding cycle again if player wants to change (hey look, another use for Expert loader!)... Make this a general mechanic NOT exclusive to an unwanted and conflicting branch (check the other post) so that any DD can decide to launch deeper torpedoes (specific draft tier and maybe nation dependent) in order to improve their concealment. IF you do base the DW mechanic on real dimensions and not just boolean, (torpedo_hit = target_ship.__class__ != Destroyer) as you seemed to try at the beginning, you can open a whole new level of parameters with which to balnace broken lines, IJN DDs ehem... More on IJN vs Pan Asia DDs on the other thread...

 

PD: Very long and very late, did not proff read, might be full of typos. apologies

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The impression i had is that it actually impact mostly cruisers and the few bbs who do bbs job of tanking and pushing, this time allowing literally NO reaction time whatsoever. I kinda understand and appreciate the will to give a distinctive flavour to each line. It's just a mattaer of understanding the impact of sucha thing. In this case it does nothing but promoting more back camping and long range (utterly useless) bbs sniping.

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basicially,these type of DDs are obviously unbalanced, and they are tooo powerful for the game.

when you design the ship, you think:

1.this kind of DDs torpedoes cannot hit other dds. to balance the dd, they have a powerful guns.

2.the deep water torpedoes can only hit bbs and CAs, so they have a shorter spotting distance.

then the problem become:

ideally, the ship should be balanced/

but due to the fact in game, a normal dd will not think have a gun-fight with asian DD, so the task of spotting their torpedoes need to be done by CA.

then the 0.8km or some 0.7km spotting range is not enough for all CA, at least they will hit by 1, most time 2 or 3 torpedoes. 

each torpedoes cause 12k damage. each time a successful torpedoes attack for asian DD will normally gives a damage about 20-30K. and that kind of damage is not easy for other nation DDs.

this type of things then will be more unbalance when half team died.

then BBs cannot be protected properly and CA cannot really protect themselves aganist DW torpedoes. 

so what you really need is stay alive for first 10mins, then you will kill the rest half team with asian DD.

there is no chance for team to catch a DD no matter what DD is(unless they have a DD to help them), but for asian DDs, they can then sent dozen of torpedoes and hit you and kill you all.

thats the difference.

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