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wot_chikor

this is why carriers are UNPLAYBLE

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Hi guys .

today i want to talk about carriers , i am trying to level up the IJN tier6 an t least as far as this tier i am having an " issue " witch is realy realy annoying . and its not directly about game desine , its about players .

why in the name of god , would the enemy carrier player ( most of the freaking games ) spend his ENTIRE bloody game chacing after  my planes killing them  and not doing anything but that .

its toxic man , its not fun ,  why would you ever spend 12 - 15 minutes following my planes and doing nothing to hlp your team  , 

pls WG do something about it .  to prevent players from doing just that . i literaly don't want to play carriers ever again, i was thinking this wold change at higher tiers but i dont think it will people are always douchbags  .... 

thanks , and any suggections are welcomed , especialy from carrier players .

oh i forgot to ask something ,  i have watched a video yesterday about a review on a BB , and for the first time i heard that upgrading the hull does give you things that are not montioned ( like new AP ammo that has more pen or more shell speed ) , i wonder if upgrading the carrier hull  upgrades anything apart from speed and AA . and shout out to WG for not montioning that ever because i dont bother upgrading hulls in lots of ships .... 

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Him shooting down your planes IS helping his team, it's damn rare for CV players to do that.

If I never see another CV in the game it will be too soon, as there's no way to hit the enemy CV until right at the end when his team is basically dead and short of intercepting his planes with AA a CV player who isn't opposed can just ruin the game for the whole opposition. That means it's not fun for 12 people.

CV's are far too dominant when played well especially if the opposing CV isn't as good, that's exclusively the case for CV's.

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15 minutes ago, wot_chikor said:

and shout out to WG for not montioning that ever because i dont bother upgrading hulls in lots of ships .... 

 

U should ALWAYS (well almost) upgrade the hull. Its much better (more Health f.e.) than the stock hull. U can check how the stats change if u click on the Hull and look on the right side to the ships specs. Then it shows which stats change and by what amount.

 

As to the CVs: Well thats one of the jobs of the CV? Also the US CVs currently still have different loadouts: Balanced, Strike and AS. (This however will change soon, also IJN CVs have the same loadouts, but they are more balanced) Balanced loadout for US CVs is usually 1-1-1 on low/midtiers. While Strike has no Fighters, AS has 2 Fighters and 1 Bomber. If the enemy CV played with AS loadout, he has not much else to do than to deny your own airstrikes.

Some CV players are fun too who try all the game to kill the enemy CV... funny when they dont succeed in that and never help their team... thats much more worse than a CV trying to kill your planes.

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Hence why I detest playing the Japanese CVs as their air power is so insanely weak in the beginning. Honestly though as Beau already said if an American CV player goes on the hunt he is doing his job not griefing. Air dominance is the main strength of American CVs so covering the team is their prime concern.

Unfortunately as Beau mentioned far too few people do it (Strike US CVs are just shite for your team) and frankly WG makes it worse by giving good XP for airkills but in the end you are still broke as they pay you no credits...

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45 minutes ago, wot_chikor said:

Hi guys .

today i want to talk about carriers , i am trying to level up the IJN tier6 an t least as far as this tier i am having an " issue " witch is realy realy annoying . and its not directly about game desine , its about players .

why in the name of god , would the enemy carrier player ( most of the freaking games ) spend his ENTIRE bloody game chacing after  my planes killing them  and not doing anything but that .

its toxic man , its not fun ,  why would you ever spend 12 - 15 minutes following my planes and doing nothing to hlp your team  , 

pls WG do something about it .  to prevent players from doing just that . i literaly don't want to play carriers ever again, i was thinking this wold change at higher tiers but i dont think it will people are always douchbags  .... 

thanks , and any suggections are welcomed , especialy from carrier players .

oh i forgot to ask something ,  i have watched a video yesterday about a review on a BB , and for the first time i heard that upgrading the hull does give you things that are not montioned ( like new AP ammo that has more pen or more shell speed ) , i wonder if upgrading the carrier hull  upgrades anything apart from speed and AA . and shout out to WG for not montioning that ever because i dont bother upgrading hulls in lots of ships .... 

 

 

Upgrading your hull on carrier unlock new armament I.E: Ap bombs. You can punish so hard enemy battleships as well.
After next update, upgrading hull to C (read third one) will give you invisible bombers, so enemy will not be able to chase you "ENTIRE bloody game".



 

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While you guys are correct that the enemy CV is not griefing but doing his job the OPs point is not wrong. It is not fun (for any CV). Neither having your planes hunted nor hunting others. It is a giant snorefest and should simply be removed.

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Fighters are in the game to ruin your fun. It's in essence their entire design principle.

As a PvP game WoWs is not made to be fun for everyone. Fun is inevitably derived from ruining the fun of someone else. Stop with this ridiculous notion that you should have fun regardless of how bad you are at the game or how hard you're getting outplayed.

Also whether you have fun using your fighters is entirely subjective. I certainly think it's fun playing with them.

 

So if someone is spending their time chasing after your planes, USE IT TO YOUR ADVANTAGE. Bait your enemy into friendly AA. Set up traps and use strafes. Drop your bombs on your DBs and have your enemy chase them around forever. There is literally so much you could be doing in such a situation but you chose to come here to whine about how you've failed at playing CVs. Incredible, really.

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1 minute ago, El2aZeR said:

Fighters are in the game to ruin your fun. It's in essence their entire design principle.

As a PvP game WoWs is not made to be fun for everyone. Fun is inevitably derived from ruining the fun of someone else. Stop with this ridiculous notion that you should have fun regardless of how bad you are at the game or how hard you're getting outplayed.

Also whether you have fun using your fighters is entirely subjective. I certainly think it's fun playing with them.

 

So if someone is spending their time chasing after your planes, USE IT TO YOUR ADVANTAGE. Bait your enemy into friendly AA. Set up traps and use strafes. Drop your bombs on your DBs and have your enemy chase them around forever. There is literally so much you could be doing in such a situation but you chose to come here to whine about how you've failed at playing CVs. Incredible, really.

As if ppl have problems with fighters that are just send straight after you. Everyone baits them into friendly AA - the point is. Oh his bomber is coming I push with my fighter. Oh he turns around, now I turn around. Back and forth across various positions of the map.

 

ENGAGING gameplay I must say.

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4 minutes ago, Pappus said:

Oh his bomber is coming I push with my fighter. Oh he turns around, now I turn around. Back and forth across various positions of the map.

 

ENGAGING gameplay I must say.

 

Yeah, if you're incapable of recognizing or capitalizing on opportunities (or, if necessary, force them open yourself) then removing fighters will be the only thing that helps you. Just another victim of a long line of features because people like you do not know how to play the game.

Absolutely brilliant. :Smile_facepalm:

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21 minutes ago, Pappus said:

While you guys are correct that the enemy CV is not griefing but doing his job the OPs point is not wrong. It is not fun (for any CV). Neither having your planes hunted nor hunting others. It is a giant snorefest and should simply be removed.

 

19 minutes ago, Ragin_aj said:

Agreed SIMPLES, Remove FIGHTERS!

 

you're kidding, right?

 

Removing the only useful thing in a cv, right.

 

Do that and you (you as in general) can play a different game by yourselves  world of war vessels. Because as is, you cannot have both things or you give support/air cover or you make damage for you.

Because as is you can't do either, well.  

At least half of your team always stays without help (majority of the games these happens) and sometimes some of you try to snipe the other cv. Leaving the rest of your team without cover.

you need more fighter squadrons, less cool down time and a change to reward system.

Remove fighters, oh boy.

No more comments.

 

Or you can, I don't know, support the Flanks or the push with fighters, you will be relative safe if you stay in the green AA bobble. (wouldn't be perfect) but will be something, while having some in reserve to protect the cv.

But you need more fighters, bombers will be there too but for self defence just in case the rest of the team fails in that (that happens too)   

 

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10 minutes ago, Butterdoll said:

 

 

you're kidding, right?

 

Removing the only useful thing in a cv, right.

 

Do that and you (you as in general) can play a different game by yourselves  world of war vessels. Because as is, you cannot have both things or you give support/air cover or you make damage for you.

Because as is you can't do either, well.  

At least half of your team always stays without help (majority of the games these happens) and sometimes some of you try to snipe the other cv. Leaving the rest of your team without cover.

you need more fighter squadrons, less cool down time and a change to reward system.

Remove fighters, oh boy.

No more comments.

 

Or you can, I don't know, support the Flanks or the push with fighters, you will be relative safe if you stay in the green AA bobble. (wouldn't be perfect) but will be something, while having some in reserve to protect the cv.

But you need more fighters, bombers will be there too but for self defence just in case the rest of the team fails in that (that happens too)   

 

There  already exists the possibility of two CVs opposing each other without a single fighter. These games must be unplayable...

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1 minute ago, Pappus said:

There  already exists the possibility of two CVs opposing each other without a single fighter. These games must be unplayable...

 

Not for much longer.

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25 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Yeah, if you're incapable of recognizing or capitalizing on opportunities (or, if necessary, force them open yourself) then removing fighters will be the only thing that helps you. Just another victim of a long line of features because people like you do not know how to play the game.

Absolutely brilliant. :Smile_facepalm:

 

Yes what rocket science to increase the level of bait until the other CV takes it. I still believe engagement wise a no fighter sky would be more enjoyable or give fighters a little something to do with their 4 strafes worth of ammunition other than spotting in terms of anti-ship capability. Then they would have a real place, but the concept of fighters is so bad, that it is not even transferable to any other ship without a riot.

 

There is already enough stuff against planes (heck even DDs with panic) so the AA game cane be lfited off of CVs. Spotting can still be done by them fighters or no.

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15 minutes ago, Pappus said:

Yes what rocket science to increase the level of bait until the other CV takes it.

 

Yeah, if that's the only thing you can come up with there is no hope for you.

If you think fighters are making the game less fun for you as a CV then that means the concept has proven itself as effective, thus deserves to stay in the game. Any additional anti-surface ability would be absolutely worthless as it would distract them from their actual task, thus become a noob trap only inexperienced scrubs will use.

 

Game mechanics are not only about having fun, especially not in a PvP game. Fighters are making CV play less fun and/or more difficult for you? Good, because they're designed to do so. And I'm sure the other guy who is shooting down your planes is having plenty of fun, unlike you.

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12 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Yeah, if that's the only thing you can come up with there is no hope for you.

If you think fighters are making the game less fun for you as a CV then that means the concept has proven itself as effective, thus deserves to stay in the game. Any additional anti-surface ability would be absolutely worthless as it would distract them from their actual task, thus become a noob trap only inexperienced scrubs will use.

 

Game mechanics are not only about having fun, especially not in a PvP game. Fighters are making CV play less fun and/or more difficult for you? Good, because they're designed to do so. And I'm sure the other guy who is shooting down your planes is having plenty of fun, unlike you.

 

I doubt there is anyone having more fun in engaging in 1vs1 fighter bait battles compared to striking an actual target and hitting the mark.

 

See when you take the bogue for example with his 2 fighters and a bomber and you are a bogue without fighter you can negate the fighter advantage by not launching at all and just chill. I don't really mind personally if the enemy has more fighters because it means he doesn't have strike power anyhow. I can just click all over place and find an opening.  It isn't deterring it is just boring.

 

Fighter mechanic doesn't add anything relevant that I can see. Of course I am not a professional.

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1 minute ago, Pappus said:

I doubt there is anyone having more fun in engaging in 1vs1 fighter bait battles compared to striking an actual target and hitting the mark.

 

As I said, if all you can do is bait then boy do I have some bad news for you.

 

1 minute ago, Pappus said:

See when you take the bogue for example with his 2 fighters and a bomber and you are a bogue without fighter you can negate the fighter advantage by not launching at all and just chill.

 

And leave the enemy CV to spot all your teammates? Brilliant idea! Totally negated the impact of the enemy!

 

Now to be fair AS setups without any strike potential are indeed idiotic and will thankfully soon be removed. Fighters themselves however have a place in this game, whether you like it or not.

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11 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Now to be fair AS setups without any strike potential are indeed idiotic and will thankfully soon be removed. Fighters themselves however have a place in this game, whether you like it or not.

Wich leaves the semi idot AS on IJN sides that cant be outfighted in the air to air game with a resonable sucessrate if the CV player has even a resemblence of skill.... If they want to get rid of this fighter setups of IJN have to go too wich leaves the ugly duckling called Saipan with the "we dont nerf prem ships" policy

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Just now, Spellfire40 said:

Wich leaves the semi idot AS on IJN sides that cant be outfighted in the air to air game with a resonable sucessrate if the CV player has even a resemblence of skill.... If they want to get rid of this fighter setups of IJN have to go too wich leaves the ugly duckling called Saipain with the we "dont nerf prem ships" policy

 

They have their place in competitive. Maybe they should actually be locked to competitive, but the need is there even if it's small compared to the vast amount of battles fought in random.

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1 hour ago, Boris_MNE said:

 

 

Upgrading your hull on carrier unlock new armament I.E: Ap bombs. You can punish so hard enemy battleships as well.
After next update, upgrading hull to C (read third one) will give you invisible bombers, so enemy will not be able to chase you "ENTIRE bloody game".



 

Your not punishing BBs your punishing German BBs and cruisers....would you take Enterprises AP bombs on all T8-10 with a limited target selection when you could take 1000lb HE Bombs that do good damage to all targets?

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11 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

As I said, if all you can do is bait then boy do I have some bad news for you.

 

 

And leave the enemy CV to spot all your teammates? Brilliant idea! Totally negated the impact of the enemy!

 

Now to be fair AS setups without any strike potential are indeed idiotic and will thankfully soon be removed. Fighters themselves however have a place in this game, whether you like it or not.

 

But that are literall all AS setups in the US right now? Yes they add a fighter to the strike but how is that a big deal? If as a CV you want to spot take an empty bomber. What I mean is you could remove fighters and significantly increase AA potential (guns) of the CVs as an example while reducing the rest. Cruisers would still be very valuable since the CV can't be everywhere.

 

Just an idea for an overhaul and suddenly the AA is still part of the CVs job but by being where they need to be the most.

 

I think the game would work without fighters and outside of spotting/fighting planes they have no job. We don't necessarily need them.

 

Why is everyone and their mother a BB player? Cause they can STRIKE dmg. They don't do it to shoot planes.

 

The CV gameplay is something that I just find lacking and fighters (especially with the strafe addition)

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6 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

They have their place in competitive. Maybe they should actually be locked to competitive, but the need is there even if it's small compared to the vast amount of battles fought in random.

And you cant make them competiv only and the existence alone makes US even after revamp a non choise in competitiv. Creating situations were the loadout choise can make you look down teh enemy CV alone is not really desireble otherwise i would just preffer AS becasue i would have more infuence in the game by looking out the enemy CV and after that keeping the enemy DDs that arent called kidd Fletcher and Gerring spoted all day.

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I have to understand from OPs post that he thinks that CVs are unplayable because of the fighters of the other CV so he wants CVs nerfed?

 

Wow.

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9 minutes ago, Pappus said:

If as a CV you want to spot take an empty bomber.

 

And reduce your strike potential? Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant.

The addition of the extra fighter means that USN CVs can for the first time effectively pursue all three of a CVs essential roles: Contest air, scout and deal damage.

 

Well, you technically speaking don't need 3 out of 4 classes either. WoWs would function perfectly well with only a single class with a couple of tweaks.

Arguing on that basis is absolutely idiotic. Of course you can remove features from this game and still make it work until you've literally made a carbon copy of Pong. Even that you can probably further simplify.

 

Fighters add an extra layer to CV gameplay that is sorely needed. Without them they become the only class with no interaction ability with itself, which is incredibly dumb in its own right, along with turning their gameplay into a ridiculously stupid damage race. If you think they're not fun to deal with, good! That's how it is supposed to be. If you think they're not fun to play with, suck it up. It's just your own personal opinion with not a single foundation in game design nor balance.

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12 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

And reduce your strike potential? Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant.

The addition of the extra fighter means that USN CVs can for the first time effectively pursue all three of a CVs essential roles: Contest air, scout and deal damage.

 

Well, you technically speaking don't need 3 out of 4 classes either. WoWs would function perfectly well with only a single class with a couple of tweaks.

Arguing on that basis is absolutely idiotic. Of course you can remove features from this game and still make it work until you've literally made a carbon copy of Pong. Even that you can probably further simplify.

 

Fighters add an extra layer to CV gameplay that is sorely needed. Without them they become the only class with no interaction ability with itself, which is incredibly dumb in its own right, along with turning their gameplay into a ridiculously stupid damage race. If you think they're not fun to deal with, good! That's how it is supposed to be. If you think they're not fun to play with, suck it up. It's just your own personal opinion with not a single foundation in game design nor balance.

 

You are funny. The spotting fighter already represents the reduction in strike force for all US. Additionally the removal of fighters would help with balancing the fighter problematic between IJN and US. At the end of the day 1vs2 fighters the IJN will always have the advantage. More fighters in the air, a lot more opportunity to come at you.

 

Now of course I don't know how big of a deal it is since I still lack game experience for this particular game, but my game sense is honed with massive hours. Thus for other games developers do actually seek my insight and put my ideas into the game especially for balance.

 

Are fighters an additional layer? Yes. Not a critical one though and if another layer is needed then something else could be found.

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