Moskva HE buff

[jerkchicken]

The moskva need for real a HE buff... Its just terrible compared to the other T10 CL's.

 

Some comparisons (not all T10):

 

Hindenburg: 4 main turrets, 202mm devided by 4: 50,5mm of penetration and excellent fire change. And great DPM!

Zao: 4 main turrets, high HE damage, 203mm devided by 6: 33.8mm of penetration and the best fire change (~19%)

Des Moines: 3 main turrets, heavy HE shells, 203mm devided by 6: 33.8mm of penetration and high change of fire per minute.

 

Moskva really needs a HE buff because the way the HE is right now is just really bad. Moskva hits because his arcs alot of the belt armor which in the most case will ''recesse'' (break) = No damage. Moskva now has 220mm of main armament guns which will be devided by 6, so we will come out of 36,7mm of penetration. This can't pen the deck armor of a Yamato, Großer Kurfürst and even the Khabarovsk. While the hindenburg can do this with 4 guns and better reload! And yes why only the moskva? and not the Des moines: Des moines has better arcs that can hit the superstructure better then the moskva can do. Most of the time in the moskva you will use only 2 main guns on the front and not the rear gun. Moskva get focused alot these days, it had worst consealment among all cruisers + bad ruddershift and the worst of all bad belt armor and can get citadeld all over the time with sailing at the weirdest angles.

 

So what does the moskva needs to make the HE useable? Just devide it by 4. So we can atleast pen more then before, because the HE right now is in bad shape real bad shape...

 

[Corvi]

Uhm .. You are supposed to use AP with the Moskwa.. 

[Commander_Cornflakes]

Moskva doesn't look that bad, damage-wise:

 

I don't think it needs a buff.

[DFens_666]

19 minutes ago, jerkchicken said:

Hindenburg: 4 main turrets, 202mm devided by 4: 50,5mm of penetration and excellent fire change. And great DPM!

 

The difference in effective HE DPM is 6000...(59400 vs 53400) And Hindenburg has 4% less Firechance. So its pretty similiar id say, ofc better HE pen for the Hindenburg. But Hindenburg same as Moskva are better at shooting AP anyway, german hightier Cruisers arent effective with spamming HE.

 

Also u do undestand that ONLY the Hindenburg has the ability to pen the 50mm plating.

[jerkchicken]

24 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

Also u do undestand that ONLY the Hindenburg has the ability to pen the 50mm plating.

So we make room for another cruiser! Moskva!

[eliastion]

47 minutes ago, jerkchicken said:

So we make room for another cruiser! Moskva!

Now I start thinking that you're trolling...

 

But, let me ask you - Moskva's stats suggest that it performs on par with other tX cruisers (apart from overperforming Des Moins). So - why would we need to buff her? She has her strong points and clearly does not struggle, making any buffs unnecessary (and potentially harmful, in fact).

[peepoStinger]

[ollonborre]

13 minutes ago, eliastion said:

But, let me ask you - Moskva's stats suggest that it performs on par with other tX cruisers (apart from overperforming Des Moins).

Huh? Apart from average XP it sits at a reasonable ~50% winrate and has the second lowest average damage. So server wise it is balanced. And I don't exactly feel like it is overperforming ingame either. Well the radar duration is a bit silly but other than that I'm lost on why you would say it is overperforming.

 

Feel free to enlighten me, I'm actually curios to see what I have missed.

[DFens_666]

2 minutes ago, ollonborre said:

Huh? Apart from average XP it sits at a reasonable ~50% winrate and has the second lowest average damage. So server wise it is balanced. And I don't exactly feel like it is overperforming ingame either. Well the radar duration is a bit silly but other than that I'm lost on why you would say it is overperforming.

 

Feel free to enlighten me, I'm actually curios to see what I have missed.

 

I think looking at WR for T10 ships doesnt tell u much, because T10 ships are always matched. Basicly the only thing its good at it tells u, which Cruiser has the most impact. And i think thats the point of Des Moines and clearly better WR than the others. (this might help a bit more, stats from last week http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20171111/eu_week/average_ship.html )

Des Moines has good concealment with Radar (long duration and compared to moskva better because Concealment in relation to Radar-range) and also very good AA.

So it counters the most influencial class (CV) aswell as the 2nd most influencial class (DDs) at the same time and he is very good at that.

 

I wouldnt go so far to say its overperforming, but its performing better than the rest id say. F.e. Henri IV has lowest WR, probably because his impact on the outcome is lower than the others. With Speedboost the natural flavour of the French Cruisers, this doesnt provide u with much means to influence the game.

 

[RUSSIANBlAS]

By getting to T10 you really should understand that line of ships...

 

Moskva guns have good range and excellent shell velocity, so you should be landing more than the competitors whatever shell type you're firing. 

[Verdius]

2 hours ago, jerkchicken said:

The moskva need for real a HE buff... Its just terrible compared to the other T10 CL's.

 

Some comparisons (not all T10):

 

Hindenburg: 4 main turrets, 202mm devided by 4: 50,5mm of penetration and excellent fire change. And great DPM!

Zao: 4 main turrets, high HE damage, 203mm devided by 6: 33.8mm of penetration and the best fire change (~19%)

Des Moines: 3 main turrets, heavy HE shells, 203mm devided by 6: 33.8mm of penetration and high change of fire per minute.

 

I wonder why you left out Henri IV 

[DFens_666]

3 minutes ago, Verdius said:

 

I wonder why you left out Henri IV 

 

Because its even worse?

Cant be biased and objective at the same time...

[peepoStinger]

I have Henri IV and love it! Dont you dare to convince me that shes a bad ship *lalala*cant hear you*lalala*  Moskva got way better reload than Henri, armor, better velocity. Where in Moskva you can sit in certain open spots and far m, Henri has to go ,,Middle finger up" and shoot while going 44kts like a madman and getting targeted by 4-5 ships . Most tense part is when you see Montanas, Yamato wolleys coming in - you have to resist the urge to turn, because youre always taking a gamble that enemy will not give you enough lead, so if you start turning, shells will definetly hurt you . With Moskva its way simplier

[El2aZeR]

[indycar]

wow after few weeks of whining how HE needs to be toned down someone comes and tries to

bring HE even more out of balance

[WeGreedy]

Compared to other HE shells Moskva's aren't very good, despite being 220 mm.

BUT she has exceptionally good velocity and arcs, and therefore great AP penetration values.

[Runegrem]

I don't have any tier 10 cruiser, unless you count the Kebab, but aren't they fairly well balanced if you only compare between the cruisers?

[jerkchicken]

4 hours ago, indycar said:

wow after few weeks of whining how HE needs to be toned down someone comes and tries to

bring HE even more out of balance

Someone plays only BB's...

[dasCKD]

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On 11/26/2017 at 2:47 PM, jerkchicken said:

Hindenburg: 4 main turrets, 202mm devided by 4: 50,5mm of penetration and excellent fire change. And great DPM!

She also has awful AP penetration, light shells that lobes at long ranges, and, oh yeah, NO RADAR.

On 11/26/2017 at 2:47 PM, jerkchicken said:

Zao: 4 main turrets, high HE damage, 203mm devided by 6: 33.8mm of penetration and the best fire change (~19%)

The Moskva isn't as good at HE spamming as the tier X HE spammer? WHAT AN OUTRAGE!

On 11/26/2017 at 2:47 PM, jerkchicken said:

Des Moines: 3 main turrets, heavy HE shells, 203mm devided by 6: 33.8mm of penetration and high change of fire per minute.

She has lazy shells. Also, heavy HE shells? You DO realize that high explosive penetration isn't affected by shell weight, right?

On 11/26/2017 at 2:47 PM, jerkchicken said:

Moskva really needs a HE buff because the way the HE is right now is just really bad.

She has the best HE delivery system in the game. Those shells are also fired out of a ship with its own advantages. Moskva has one of the highest cruise speed and, as mentioned, a radar suite that the Zao and Hindy both lacks. Her AP shells are also arguably the best out of any tier X cruiser. Would you accept a nerf to the Moskva's AP if her HE was buffed?

On 11/26/2017 at 2:47 PM, jerkchicken said:

Moskva hits because his arcs alot of the belt armor which in the most case will ''recesse'' (break) = No damage. Moskva now has 220mm of main armament guns which will be devided by 6, so we will come out of 36,7mm of penetration. This can't pen the deck armor of a Yamato, Großer Kurfürst and even the Khabarovsk.

Neither can anything that isn't a Hindy. The Henri has even bigger guns and she still has the same poor penetration. This seems to have slipped your mind.

On 11/26/2017 at 2:47 PM, jerkchicken said:

Des moines has better arcs

WOT?

On 11/26/2017 at 2:47 PM, jerkchicken said:

can hit the superstructure better then the moskva can

WOTWOTWOTWOTWOT?

On 11/26/2017 at 2:47 PM, jerkchicken said:

time in the moskva you will use only 2 main guns on the front and not the rear gun

Which is different from the Des Moines and Henri how? That's 2/3 of her firepower compared to the Zao's and Hindy's 1/2. The Moskva, unlike the DM, can also effectively kite which means you can use all your guns as you please as long as you play her correctly.

On 11/26/2017 at 2:47 PM, jerkchicken said:

Moskva get focused alot these days

As does any cruiser.

On 11/26/2017 at 2:47 PM, jerkchicken said:

it had worst consealment among all cruisers

And the thickest side plating and deck armor.

On 11/26/2017 at 2:47 PM, jerkchicken said:

bad ruddershift

And one of the tightest turning circle of any tier X cruiser despite being one of the biggest with the largest health pool.

On 11/26/2017 at 2:47 PM, jerkchicken said:

can get citadeld all over the time with sailing at the weirdest angles

Which never happens to ships like the DM, Minotaur, or Henri. Of course. And why are you bringing this up? What does the belt armor have to do with the HE performance?

On 11/26/2017 at 2:47 PM, jerkchicken said:

So what does the moskva needs to make the HE useable? Just devide it by 4. So we can atleast pen more then before, because the HE right now is in bad shape real bad shape...

That's a German thing, to compensate for their awful HE. Radar is the Russian thing, along with 50 mm plate and deck armor. Would you honestly tell me that you would surrender either of those for the 1/4 HE rule?

[jerkchicken]

2 minutes ago, dasCKD said:

The Moskva isn't as good at HE spamming as the tier X HE spammer? WHAT AN OUTRAGE!

Goodluck with your AP spamming on angled BB's

[dasCKD]

8 minutes ago, jerkchicken said:

Goodluck with your AP spamming on angled BB's

Then switch to HE, or just aim at a cruiser. You have the range.

[Sigimundus]

The second best complaint from today. The first was the player who complains that enemy CV shooting down his planes. 

[jerkchicken]

1 minute ago, Sigimundus said:

The second best complaint from today. The first was the player who complains that enemy CV shooting down his planes. 

Whatever

[Skiie]

Potato doesn't know how to change ammo. How cute.

No need for Moskva changes. It's fine. 

[_DeathWing_]

On 11/26/2017 at 2:55 PM, Corvi said:

Uhm .. You are supposed to use AP with the Moskwa.. 

 Omg why did you tell him!?