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Migulaitor

Proposal about hard carry.

New achievement  

61 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you think its a good idea to reward a player on this case?

    • Yes
      40
    • No
      21
    • Not sure
      0
  2. 2. Wich rewards would you prefer?

    • Signals/premium/doubloons
      22
    • Something aesthetic (No need of xp/creds bonus)
      9
    • Something aesthetic (With bonus)
      9
    • It shouldnt be rewarded
      21
  3. 3. Do you consider those achievement names are offensives?

    • Yes
      15
    • No
      46
  4. 4. Are potato flags fine? (I dont think they are historical)

    • No, it should be something more serious
      21
    • Yes, after all we already have neon disco ships.
      40

28 comments in this topic

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Morning fellow forumites.

Who didnt had a super amazing epic game, with tons of damage, tons of achievements, and even more ribbons and bang lost. Then you go to the team score tab and you are first by xp on both teams.

 

My proposal is the next, an achievement with a sexy name, something in the line of "Painkiller for the broken back", "I feel you bro", "Dem, those potatos are too heavy to carry".

 

The rewards, im thinking about 2 options:

 

1) Special signals, premium time, some gold, something a bit better than your regular reward.

 

2) You get a point after lets say 5 points you get a flag (A huge potato) after 10 you get a potato with a cape, after 20 a potato with a crown etc... the more you carry the more important you are in the potato society.

They give 5%/10% etc... extra xp/creds, whatever but only if you are first by xp.

Values are random and should be adjusted. Also it doesnt need to be a potato, can be something more serious.

 

And thats the game sending me to a pseudoproductive rant:

*Edited

 

 

 

PS: Thinking of something similar when you win and have more than twice the xp of the second player.

Edited by Nohe21
* This post has been edited by the moderation team due to Naming & Shaming (Video).
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No.

Screen cap it and post in on the carry harder thread, there is one for these matters already.

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Alpha Tester, Players, In AlfaTesters
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Or a flag with a bloodsucker on it, for being the biggest leech of the team

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You already got rewarded with the biggest XP gain of both teams and still want more? Be glad you performed well. If that performance earned you achievements, those are already part of your better reward.

There is no need to increase the reward or to add special attributes to it that no other reward mirrors.

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First question that comes to mind is: how do you define 'hard carry'?

 

I think under certain conditions (steep though, mind you, like Kraken + lots and lots of damage) additional achievement would be nice, with ability to chose 10 flags of your liking.

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48 minutes ago, Skyllon said:

First question that comes to mind is: how do you define 'hard carry'?

 

I think under certain conditions (steep though, mind you, like Kraken + lots and lots of damage) additional achievement would be nice, with ability to chose 10 flags of your liking.

Im just spitballing here bit when youre XP exeeds the sum of 4-5 other players on youre team. 

 

I think there should be a flag for players that actually exeeds in this game.

 

Win rate, carry potential....

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Isn't there already a potato flag?

Spoiler

PCEE167_Steam_Flag.png.630b599b7e7ae457ef320961d9c8557b.png

Spoiler

Nah, I'm just kidding, I really like that WoWs is on steam now, more players are always good! :Smile_honoring:

I don't think it should be shown to everyone that a players isn't very good.

Maybe give him a better feedback. I read things like "leave me alone, I'm a battleship, 20 km range, I have to stay in the back..." quite often.

 

 

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6 hours ago, Skyllon said:

how do you define 'hard carry'?

If winning: Double xp than the second player on your team.

If losing: Best by xp on both teams.

Not perfect but a rough idea.

 

6 hours ago, Lieut_Gruber said:

Or a flag with a bloodsucker on it, for being the biggest leech of the team

You dont tend to get a lot of xp by "leeching"

 

 

7 hours ago, Juanx said:

No.

Screen cap it and post in on the carry harder thread, there is one for these matters already.

Wanted to attach an image but I can not atm, but you totally missed the point.

 

 

Its curious, most of the comments say its a bad idea/ you already get rewarded, poll says otherwise.

In my opinion giving a little reward to somebody who had an amazing game but loses the game (due to be placed on the wrong team, random MM) could help to remove the bad taste after the game.

 

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I vote No but I would like more achievements f.e. capping several zones and defending flags but high numbers.

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14 hours ago, Migulaitor said:

Wanted to attach an image but I can not atm, but you totally missed the point.

Its curious, most of the comments say its a bad idea/ you already get rewarded, poll says otherwise.

In my opinion giving a little reward to somebody who had an amazing game but loses the game (due to be placed on the wrong team, random MM) could help to remove the bad taste after the game.

 

 

Odd that you say that when the majority does not want any special compensation but hey, guess its your poll, you misread it as much as you like.

No need for pictures, your posts speak for themselves.

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4 hours ago, Juanx said:

 

Odd that you say that when the majority does not want any special compensation but hey, guess its your poll, you misread it as much as you like.

No need for pictures, your posts speak for themselves.

Question 1)  19 say yes, 14 say no, afaik 19>14.

Question 2)  9+6+4= 19, still 19>14

Sorry if my maths are wrong, feel free to correct them :Smile_Default:

 

About my post, it wasnt about bragging, or "look I had an amazing game". When you get detonated (totally rng) you get rewarded (anti deto flags), so why dont get rewarded when MM (also rng) throws you in a game you will lose? It could help whit those "Its lost, I just suicide/go afk"

 

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Unless they fix the XP rewards to reflect how much you actually do for your team winning, I'm going to have to say no on this. As it is, selfish play is rewarded more than team play, so encouraging that only leads to more crap teams.

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1 hour ago, AnotherDuck said:

so encouraging that only leads to more crap teams.

not really as it will be very rare that someone on the losing team outxps the one on the winning team. 

if that happens you can safely say he has done his job. even bb players who devestated ships. as a bb in spawn would have had a very rng based game if they did that mutch damage while sniping.

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3 hours ago, AnotherDuck said:

Unless they fix the XP rewards to reflect how much you actually do for your team winning, I'm going to have to say no on this. As it is, selfish play is rewarded more than team play, so encouraging that only leads to more crap teams.

Well, while current XP isn't very well awarded, let's put it straight: if someone managed to score more baseXP while on the losing team than anyone on the winning team, there's no way in hell he wasn't a tremendous asset to his team. No matter how selfish you play, to outscore the winning team you need to pretty much kill half of them (and then still lose). It's also not possible to really plan for this (unlike for taking top spot of your team) - even a match with a well deserved (not stolen) Kraken usually won't give you more base XP than the best enemy if the other team wins.

So, basically, there are no drawbacks here (unlike with best loser saving a star in Ranked).

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Naturally but you have Kraken, Confederate and High Caliber, Solo Warrior is so rare so I Ignore that, Defence awards does not exist only tanking rewards. 

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On 11/24/2017 at 0:39 PM, Egoleter said:

You already got rewarded with the biggest XP gain of both teams and still want more? Be glad you performed well. If that performance earned you achievements, those are already part of your better reward.

There is no need to increase the reward or to add special attributes to it that no other reward mirrors.

 

that is not reward... you earned that hard. i had games where i got ~2k xp on losing team and was unsatisfied cause people on winning team didnt do half as much as i did and they got same xp reward just cause they were on winning team. and the game could have been easily won if i didnt have team full of potatoes that couldnt survive for 5 minutes...

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15 hours ago, lameoll said:

not really as it will be very rare that someone on the losing team outxps the one on the winning team.

14 hours ago, eliastion said:

So, basically, there are no drawbacks here (unlike with best loser saving a star in Ranked).

 

You both missed the point entirely. Encouraging farming XP means encouraging camping and trying to stay alive above actually helping the team. They don't have to actually succeed at it. The problem lies with all people trying but failing at it. It's like whenever there are missions that require kills, as then you see a lot of people trying their best to kill-steal while holding their fire and ignoring other more important threats.

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11 minutes ago, AnotherDuck said:

 

You both missed the point entirely. Encouraging farming XP means encouraging camping and trying to stay alive above actually helping the team. They don't have to actually succeed at it. The problem lies with all people trying but failing at it. It's like whenever there are missions that require kills, as then you see a lot of people trying their best to kill-steal while holding their fire and ignoring other more important threats.

This really. Bad teamplay doesn't always equal bad XP earnings.

 

Small example: two BBs get exactly the same amount of potential damage:

a) went in to support his ships at the cap and took the heat there

b) sat in the back and didn't take any fire untill he was the only one left and slowly the remainder of the enemy teams gets in position to kill him

 

Both will get exactly the same amount of XP for potential damage, but a got it in early game supporting his team and b got in late game without supporting his team.

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1 hour ago, AnotherDuck said:

as then you see a lot of people trying their best to kill-steal while holding their fire and ignoring other more important threats

and kill stealing does not reward xp at all. IF you outxp the enemy team in the losing team OR get double the xp of the one person below u. u did your job Way better then your team. no mather what u did.

ppl already *try* to cowar and stay alive long enough to farm damage. and i wont see one of those top the xp board by a landslide.

 

57 minutes ago, 159Hunter said:

Small example: two BBs get exactly the same amount of potential damage:

a) went in to support his ships at the cap and took the heat there

b) sat in the back and didn't take any fire untill he was the only one left and slowly the remainder of the enemy teams gets in position to kill him

 

if that is the case the bb who went in first probably picked out a bad posittion to tank from and overextended. 

and if he was way closer he should have been able to do some nice damage to DDs as well. 

that  case would have not been an issue of the xp it would have been an issue of the players skill.

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1 hour ago, AnotherDuck said:

 

You both missed the point entirely. Encouraging farming XP means encouraging camping and trying to stay alive above actually helping the team. They don't have to actually succeed at it. The problem lies with all people trying but failing at it. It's like whenever there are missions that require kills, as then you see a lot of people trying their best to kill-steal while holding their fire and ignoring other more important threats.

Contrary to what you might think, people don't often attempt things far enough from their reach. By your logic - there would be plenty people in 2v4 situations that stop firing at all and try to hide, hoping for the last ally to die so that they could then solo the remaining 4 opponents and get a solo warrior. For some reason, such behavior doesn't seem to be all that common though, right? Why, seeing how there is a rare achievement to be gained and some signals on top of it? If you were right, this initiative should compel plenty people to try and farm the achievement... and yet, it doesn't seem to be happening.

It would be the same with "top XP of both teams" guys. The achievement would be so extremely rare that nobody would be really aiming for it. Being virtually impossible to aim for (similar to Solo Warior) It wouldn't affect behavior of players in any noticeable way. What it WOULD do is give the good players in that 1 in 300 scenario a little bit of consolation prize - a token of appreciation for their tremendous - though insufficient in the end - contribution.

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13 hours ago, lameoll said:

and kill stealing does not reward xp at all.

 

And yet people do it for quests.

 

13 hours ago, eliastion said:

By your logic - there would be plenty people in 2v4 situations that stop firing at all and try to hide, hoping for the last ally to die so that they could then solo the remaining 4 opponents and get a solo warrior. For some reason, such behavior doesn't seem to be all that common though, right?

 

I can't say I'm a mind reader, so I can't tell you their intentions, but I can say I've certainly seen one or both of the last two ships in that case run for the border. So no, I can't agree that it doesn't happen. But most of the lack of trying comes from how rare the situation where you can even try for it is. You need to come into a 1vs4 situation you've got a chance of winning, and that takes a lot of random chance throughout the match. If people smell that, I can definitely say some would go for it.

 

On the other hand, something like getting way more XP than anyone else can be much easier to achieve if you try to farm it from the start, which would affect the entire match, rather than just the end of it, and because of that, it would affect far more matches.

 

13 hours ago, eliastion said:

It would be the same with "top XP of both teams" guys. The achievement would be so extremely rare that nobody would be really aiming for it. Being virtually impossible to aim for (similar to Solo Warior) It wouldn't affect behavior of players in any noticeable way. What it WOULD do is give the good players in that 1 in 300 scenario a little bit of consolation prize - a token of appreciation for their tremendous - though insufficient in the end - contribution.

 

Are you seriously comparing getting twice the XP of anyone else in the team with Solo Warrior? I've gotten Solo Warrior once, and only a few close shots at it. Twice the XP I get occasionally. More than anyone in the enemy team not quite so often, but it happens.

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6 hours ago, AnotherDuck said:

You need to come into a 1vs4 situation you've got a chance of winning, and that takes a lot of random chance throughout the match. If people smell that, I can definitely say some would go for it.

 

On the other hand, something like getting way more XP than anyone else can be much easier to achieve if you try to farm it from the start, which would affect the entire match, rather than just the end of it, and because of that, it would affect far more matches.

It's effectively just as unlikely. I personally don't think I got much less solo warriors than situations where I got more XP than the best (victorious) opponent - because if enemy team wins, it's usually because at least one or two players on that team played really well (while solo warrior on Standard Battle isn't THAT uncommon). And "farming from the start" enough XP to get anywhere near the amount of XP required would make the village idiot (the kind of player who would aim for such a feat instead of doing his best for the win) into someone carrying the team hard. So, I'd say, not a bad trade either. You just completely underestimate how extremely far an average player trying to farm XP would be from the goal described here. And one that wouldn't realize how unlikely he is to succeed? That one wouldn't get even the first spot in the team, because farming XP takes a bit of brain too. And, of course, most players wouldn't really realize thaat there's a new achievement...

In the end the kind of player that would actually try "farming XP" in hopes of coming on top of both teams even on a defeat would be either

a) a super-unicum that actually can hope for this to work - but isn't he a super-unicum because he cares about winning in the first place? Why would he jeopardize that, if just playing normally would probably net him similar XP without lowering WR%?

b) a complete and utter idiot who doesn't realize how far he is from getting there with his skill and pitiful XP-farming attempts - this kind of player would be useless no matter what. In fact, it might even help him - after all, camping fruitlessly in the back for the whole duration of the battle doesn't really get you much XP.

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10 hours ago, AnotherDuck said:

On the other hand, something like getting way more XP than anyone else can be much easier to achieve if you try to farm it from the start, which would affect the entire match, rather than just the end of it, and because of that, it would affect far more matches.

My way to farm XP:

DDs: Go to caps, murder DDs and cap

Cruisers: Go to caps, murder DDs, maybe cap

BBs: Go to caps, murder DDs and cruisers, rarely cap.

 

In all those cases im doing my job helping the team. I have no idea how you can expect to have a great amount of xp in a game you dont go for the objective.

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4 hours ago, eliastion said:

It's effectively just as unlikely.

 

In one word, no. In two words, [edited]no.

 

4 hours ago, eliastion said:

You just completely underestimate how extremely far an average player trying to farm XP would be from the goal described here.

 

No, since that's not even the point. You try to go with arguments in the far corners of possibility, but forget the entire middle of it. You don't have to have a reasonable chance of success. I'm arguing against encouraging it in the first place. You want to encourage playing for yourself rather than for the team. You want to encourage camping and trying to stay alive at the cost of the team. You want to encourage a worse meta. But you probably won't even realise it yourself, so if you don't understand it at this point, I don't think you'll ever do.

 

40 minutes ago, Migulaitor said:

I have no idea how you can expect to have a great amount of xp in a game you dont go for the objective.

 

Look at any season of Ranked. You can choose to go for the objectives, or you can choose to go for the top position to not lose a star. Play for the team, or play for your own benefit at the cost of everyone else. The latter is what medals like this encourages.

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