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Pappus

Returning player from beta - CV Changes

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Back in the day I was playing US 2 torp squad CVs. It was a very fun experience where if someone made a mistake (like turning AWAY from incoming torp squads) they got capitally punished.

 

Against competent BB players it wasn't that worthwhile to try and even attack them since they would turn into you massively reducing the alphastrike or they would hang around other ships like oh gosh CL that had panic and alike.

 

Now I return to see the changes and I can only say: Disgusting.

 

There are DDs with enough AA prowess that they down planes, there is strafing that unrelated from balance makes the whole experience unfun. On the subject of strafing alone it makes a single fighter a massive threat to your whole strike and I don't really see a reason for it. Yes fighter vs fighter was click and forget before and so it should. I don't even think that fighters belong in the game since their whole purpose is to negate the other planes without having any attack capabilities of their own. Gameplay wise it is not fun.

 

Let us simply assume you are strike and the enemy brings a fighter deck. Okay that means basically both CVs will largely have no impact. You will get a couple of strikes of here and there maybe and the single diverbomber from him might aswell not be there since it makes no difference on the match overall.

 

You want players feeling that they actively shape the match and that is not done by having them negate another player which may or may not be good.

 

There are BBs now that can venture by themself without any fear because whole squads can die to their automated passive AA before they can drop (e.g. ryujo vs carolina).

 

While the old system might not have been perfect it gave a massive incentive to STAY TOGETHER and act as a FLEET.

 

Now we have a gigantic strafe baiting simulator or peek-a-boo my fighter hid behind the enemy fleet and now strafes into your attacksquads (git gud) and a plethorra of other strong AA tools so since I hit T6 again I am just disgusted by what CV play looks like nowadays.

 

It is not an engaging experience at all. US vs IJN is still not balanced, but I guess it flew over your head that more squads = more options. I mean look at US they cant even crossdrop.

 

CV play should revolve around finding weaknesses in the enemies positioning and capitalize on it. It should not be about avoiding AA forcefields running around and spending half the match strafing into each other from various angles.

 

WG the CVs are your tool to force good player behaviour. Make being by yourself a deadly scenario and the BBs will start forming an iron fleet.

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[I401]
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Beta Midway was OP as hell, everybody knows. No wonder you enjoyed it.

The state of the US CVs since their nerf is horrible, but so is any other CVs' state, but the US ones will be rebalanced next patch.

 

Lets hope for the best, my Midway is collecting dust as well.

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[YARRR]
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If you cannot handle fighter micro then perhaps CV play is not for you.

Full strike/fighter decks will be gone soon.

 

And personally I have plenty of fun playing with fighters. Sure, I might be ruining yours with them, but that's fine. It's a PvP game, what do you even expect?

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^^^^ What El2aZeR said.

 

If you can't deal with fighters then you shouldn't even be playing CVs. CV gameplay doesn't revolves around you just purely doing damage to enemy ships. If that's what you think its about then its really no wonder you find the changes bad. Because you can't freely do damage now, so to you it's not fun. But what about your targets? Is it fun for them? No doubt AA can be excessive at times, but it should take some effort on your part as well. Do you scout? Do you provide air cover for your teammate? Do you pick targets to hit that will help your team? 

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Carriers are getting nerfed directly or indirectly with every patch. Take notice of the fighter buffs, AA power creep, defensive fire boost, etc. There has been no improvement in the gameplay of carriers since release.

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Playing CV is becoming more and more challenging, I agree. But strafing and breaking fighter locks are actual improvements to the game. OP try to embrace the changes that have happened since beta and you will find that a few things might enable you to become a stronger player.

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[DAVY]
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cv play from beta to what we have now is completely different and as such I would suggest either forget about beta play and now learn the new cv play or forget cvs completely till the so called rework finally arrives and you can then maybe get some of the magic you had in beta back

as for rest of classes its been more of a balance shift so battleships are the main dominant class that can and do wipe everything and the only counter is other battleships but don't let this put you off because dd and cruiser play can still be fun even if you aren't as much of a game changer to what battleships are

 

 

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[HABIT]
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On 24.11.2017 at 2:19 AM, Pappus said:

CV play should revolve around finding weaknesses in the enemies positioning and capitalize on it. It should not be about avoiding AA forcefields running around and spending half the match strafing into each other from various angles.

 

Quite the contradiction, don't you think? What other weaknesses should you take into consideration if not low AA?

Also, you take a tier VI CV and attack the tier VIII BB with the strongest AA and expect to not get punished? Do you also take a tier VI CA and go straight for the next tier VIII BB with the expectation to do massive damage and not take any return fire?

 

Yes, CV play has changed since beta and not really for the best from a CV player POV. So you either adapt or you stop playing them. your choice.

But changes/rebalance can't be far ahead since we have the Year of the CVTM for two years already.

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12 minutes ago, _Helmut_Kohl_ said:

Sorry, but if you just want to strike people with impunity, go back to playing arty in WoT. 

 

Or just change classes to battleships, mainly the British. :cap_old:

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[RONIN]
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CV in beta were stupid. At one point the langley had a loadout that simply consisted of 2x6 TB. At a tier where nothing had AA (lower than it is now), no DF, no float fighters, and you frequently didnt even have an enemy carrier.

Oh and you could have 2 in a division, so if you felt like it some poor sod could get cross dropped with 24 torps. At tier 4.

 

The running joke on the forums were the players who had an average damage of ~5-10k in their "regular" tier 4 ships, 100k+ in their langley/hosho and were vehmently arguing that CV were balanced

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16 hours ago, Tungstonid said:

 

Quite the contradiction, don't you think? What other weaknesses should you take into consideration if not low AA?

Also, you take a tier VI CV and attack the tier VIII BB with the strongest AA and expect to not get punished? Do you also take a tier VI CA and go straight for the next tier VIII BB with the expectation to do massive damage and not take any return fire?

 

Yes, CV play has changed since better and not really for the best from a CV player POV. So you either adapt or you stop playing them. your choice.

But changes/rebalance can't be far ahead since we have the Year of the CVTM for two years already.

 

Enemy position is e.g. not many ways to dodge (islands), alone. Also T6 cruiser/dd can battle a T8 BB. HE spam, torps will all work. Their attacks do not vanish unlike the CVs.

 

St. Louis can attack some higher tier BBs for example (Kawachi). However when I send 2 torpsquads and get maybe 2 torpedos in against NON-dodge then that ship is effectively invincible to me no matter what bad crap he does.

 

15 hours ago, Xevious_Red said:

CV in beta were stupid. At one point the langley had a loadout that simply consisted of 2x6 TB. At a tier where nothing had AA (lower than it is now), no DF, no float fighters, and you frequently didnt even have an enemy carrier.

Oh and you could have 2 in a division, so if you felt like it some poor sod could get cross dropped with 24 torps. At tier 4.

 

The running joke on the forums were the players who had an average damage of ~5-10k in their "regular" tier 4 ships, 100k+ in their langley/hosho and were vehmently arguing that CV were balanced

 

Yes of course that is too much and had no reasoning to be there without panic and any kind of AA that can down planes. That is no justification though to completely turn the table on it. I dont see gameplay value in BBs having this kind of passive AA prowess by themselves.

 

Why not give them a good reason to stick to cruisers? That is literally what happened in higher tier during beta.

 

16 hours ago, _Helmut_Kohl_ said:

Sorry, but if you just want to strike people with impunity, go back to playing arty in WoT. 

 

 

There is a difference between asking to strike everything with impunity and not wanting to have your limited rescources melt against the target you are SUPPOSED to strike while they don't need to do anything.

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19 hours ago, pra3y said:

^^^^ What El2aZeR said.

 

If you can't deal with fighters then you shouldn't even be playing CVs. CV gameplay doesn't revolves around you just purely doing damage to enemy ships. If that's what you think its about then its really no wonder you find the changes bad. Because you can't freely do damage now, so to you it's not fun. But what about your targets? Is it fun for them? No doubt AA can be excessive at times, but it should take some effort on your part as well. Do you scout? Do you provide air cover for your teammate? Do you pick targets to hit that will help your team? 

 

It depends I usually hunt destroyers and cruisers cause I find that it usually is difficult for my team in random battle to swiftly dispatch a destroyer. If I just manage one torpedo on them it already helps a lot. Like I try to create a local advantage for my team.

 

Making ships turn so they are easier to hit and have a problem shooting themselves etc. It isn't about the damage that I complain, but simply spending so much time on the fighter vs fighter scenario. Should i need my fighter to get my strike in then I dont have an additional one to protect my mates for now. Later I have two and it will make the issue even worse. Even more strafing and strafebaiting.

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Again, what you want is impunity.

 

-Impunity from fighters, which you simply don't understand. 

-Impunity from enemy BB AA, because you are simply staying in their AA too long or attacking larger blobs. 

 

Just learn the game before you demand any changes. 

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3 hours ago, _Helmut_Kohl_ said:

Again, what you want is impunity.

 

-Impunity from fighters, which you simply don't understand. 

-Impunity from enemy BB AA, because you are simply staying in their AA too long or attacking larger blobs. 

 

Just learn the game before you demand any changes. 

 

Did you ever try and see what happens to bombers on a straight droprun to a higher tiered bb? The squad dies in that bombing run. Has nothing to do with staying too long in there they vaporize.

 

There is nothing about not understanding fighters either, my issue with them is that it is a lot of strafebaiting each other since you really want to get a strafe into his fighter clean. A single good strafe can put you miles ahead of the other CV.

 

I really dont see why you are hellbent on "impunity" when my suggestions just put emphasis on cruisers to help with AA. It just means if you are a BB you put your [edited]not alone somewhere but with a buddy that can help with AA even if it is just another BB and if you fail to team up, fail to protect yourself and fail to dodge, then yes get striked hard because you deserve it.

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31 minutes ago, Pappus said:

 

Did you ever try and see what happens to bombers on a straight droprun to a higher tiered bb? The squad dies in that bombing run. Has nothing to do with staying too long in there they vaporize.

 

There is nothing about not understanding fighters either, my issue with them is that it is a lot of strafebaiting each other since you really want to get a strafe into his fighter clean. A single good strafe can put you miles ahead of the other CV.

 

I really dont see why you are hellbent on "impunity" when my suggestions just put emphasis on cruisers to help with AA. It just means if you are a BB you put your [edited]not alone somewhere but with a buddy that can help with AA even if it is just another BB and if you fail to team up, fail to protect yourself and fail to dodge, then yes get striked hard because you deserve it.

You are attacking the battleship too soon, wait until it has suffered some damage and then your planes will have a better survivability chance 

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Full AA-spec BBs are a rarity these days.

Not even Missouri can prevent a torpedo drop, if you approach from a good angle and drop immediately (and not too close). 

 

If your Ryoju meets a full AA North Carolina, then you need to wait till his AA gets peeled off by the first two RN BB HE salvos. 

 

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6 minutes ago, _Helmut_Kohl_ said:

Full AA-spec BBs are a rarity these days.

Not even Missouri can prevent a torpedo drop, if you approach from a good angle and drop immediately (and not too close). 

 

If your Ryoju meets a full AA North Carolina, then you need to wait till his AA gets peeled off by the first two RN BB HE salvos. 

 

Even in CBT a NC deplaned shokakus so thats nothing new . Knowing what you can atack and what not is a base skill for CV players especally when your botom Tir.. And while most BBs do not spec for full AA most do AFT wich alone is enogh to defend agist all but masiv atacks. (defend in causing losses and reduce the number of hits not making you imun to air atacks)

 

And def fire wasnt a thing on DD or CVs in the early days neither were strafes a lots have changed for the OP and not much for the better from his point. Not saying all changes were bad but if you cant balace a class and need to put def fire on low AA targets to turn them into planeshredderers becasue CVs for gameplay reasons and win loss perspectiv rather atack DDs than BBs you dont see a healthy CV gameplay......

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14 hours ago, Pappus said:

 

It depends I usually hunt destroyers and cruisers cause I find that it usually is difficult for my team in random battle to swiftly dispatch a destroyer. If I just manage one torpedo on them it already helps a lot. Like I try to create a local advantage for my team.

 

Making ships turn so they are easier to hit and have a problem shooting themselves etc. It isn't about the damage that I complain, but simply spending so much time on the fighter vs fighter scenario. Should i need my fighter to get my strike in then I dont have an additional one to protect my mates for now. Later I have two and it will make the issue even worse. Even more strafing and strafebaiting.

 

Well like what the other posters have said above, you'll have to learn which ships have good AA and which ship doesn't. Everything you've described is part and parcel of a CV player's game life. Its not just focusing on doing damage but scouting and providing air cover, knowing how CV mechanics work like strafing etc. There is alot of depth to it.

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[FAM]
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It is still an engaging and challenging experience to play CVs, it's just that it has become much more difficult and sometimes frustrating to play CVs. You can still get called Sky Cancer by the potatoes like the old days though.

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