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rigawe

USS Sims rebalance needed?

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Hey guys

 

I was playing my Sims earlier and I was wondering if WG planned something for this ship?

Every time I play this ship I find it fun, but boy does it feel useless...

 

Just checked the stat of the ship compared to the other T7 DD and sure enough Sims is at the bottom.

Average damage, average frag, win rate... every time the sims is the last and it's not even close to the other.

Worst part of that is that WG compensate this with higher experience multiplier. So that you almost get "good" results at the end of the battle, no matter what you do.

 

Can't we get some buff to at least put the ship at the same level with other T7 DD?

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Kind of agree, but what would you buff to get her to become better? The guns are already identical to the Fletcher, thus better than the Mahan.

It gets access to the AA ability.

The concealment? But that is quite good for a tier 7 DD.

Maneuverability? That is on par with the rest of the DD line.

The torps? Those got buffed already. Buff them even more?

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Stat whore complaining ?

 

Do you have fun with the ship ? Does it work for you and you gameplay style ? YES ??? Then the hell with the stats ...

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7 hours ago, rigawe said:

Hey guys

 

I was playing my Sims earlier and I was wondering if WG planned something for this ship?

Every time I play this ship I find it fun, but boy does it feel useless...

 

Just checked the stat of the ship compared to the other T7 DD and sure enough Sims is at the bottom.

Average damage, average frag, win rate... every time the sims is the last and it's not even close to the other.

Worst part of that is that WG compensate this with higher experience multiplier. So that you almost get "good" results at the end of the battle, no matter what you do.

 

Can't we get some buff to at least put the ship at the same level with other T7 DD?

Thats the part that is going wrong with your Sims.

If you play the Sims correctly (and get teams with at least half a brain - wait maybe that is the issue here) it should have one of the best winrates as it is the ultimate Supporter DD at Tier 7.

While the kind of support the Sims gives, aka spotting Torpedos (you won't believe the torpedobeats i pulled with that dancer of a ship)/enemys, smoking allies (US Smoke), kiting DDs to trick them to follow in your cruisers, won't give you much if any xp WG gave it a special multiplier to compensate.

Also even though Sims is best in Support doesn't make it especially terrible at other jobs like ambushing DDs or contesting caps.

Oh and it is the ultimate ship to troll if we ever get Tier VII ranked again. :Smile_trollface: (been there done that and jeah i know thats dirty)

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7 hours ago, stewie533 said:

Kind of agree, but what would you buff to get her to become better? The guns are already identical to the Fletcher, thus better than the Mahan.

It gets access to the AA ability.

The concealment? But that is quite good for a tier 7 DD.

Maneuverability? That is on par with the rest of the DD line.

The torps? Those got buffed already. Buff them even more?

AA ability isn't so interesting considering the problem with CV population right now, maybe it will change later.

 

I would look at the torps. I couldn't remember when the sims got its second set of torps. Was it before or after WG changed the torps on US DD line?

Mahan is using the same torps  Marks 15 mod. 0 with reduced speed but increased range. So maybe being able to choose between this two version?

As for the bliss leavit set tier 3 ship get better torps than that.

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5 minutes ago, Miessa3 said:

Thats the part that is going wrong with your Sims.

If you play the Sims correctly (and get teams with at least half a brain - wait maybe that is the issue here) it should have one of the best winrates as it is the ultimate Supporter DD at Tier 7.

 

I checked on https://wows-numbers.com/ships/ the stats of the ship. And well, theory and reality are quite different.

 

Sims Winrate is at 48.15%, the closest ship to that is the Akatsuki at 49.47%.

 

The average damage of the sims is 19570 even the hastuharu when it was a tier 7 was at 22490.

Just to be sure I even compared this number against T6 DD. At T6 only one ship is below the sims and it's the Gnevy.

So I'm wondering how could you call that the ultimate support?

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Sims is one of the best tier for tier DDs in the game...

 

You might however need a 14+ point captain (CE & RPF/RL) to get the full benefits and preferably even 19.

 

She's fast, has excellent brawling guns, is the most maneuverable DD outside the bottom tiers in the game tied with the Gremy and even has DefAA to stop would be CVs.

 

Only real weakness are the torps which did pathetic damage with the long range ones or become yolo close range ones. I use the long range ones as they're good for throwing into smoke or area denying as the enemy often won't be able to tell what has launched them so they'll treat them as full fat ones.

 

Sims is like the Atago, both don't have amazing general stats as they're fairly difficult ships to use. 

 

Still, by all means I'll take a buff :cap_money:

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1 hour ago, rigawe said:

So I'm wondering how could you call that the ultimate support?

 

Because it has it's strenghs there but those won't show in those stats you mentioned. The only Stat where you should see the difference is the Winrate but then there are the random/weekendplayers that play this arguably harder to play ship......

It has US smoke (considered best as longest duration), best manuverablity in the game if you don't count lowtier to dodge the Torps that you spot on its way to your teams cruisers and BBs and the Torpedos (Watermines) are so bad you won't hit anyone with it but you can use them for area denial and baiting enemys to show broadside. It is also quiet a good alrounder if you don't look at the torpedos so it won't be just killed by overconfident DDs that push you.

From all DDs above Tier V it is imo the best for fleetsupport aka staying between the fronts and providing support/smoke which SHOULD win games (if combined with capcontestin mid to endgame).

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Ok then look at her strengh.

 

When she was introduced she only faced hatsuharu and mahan. Back then she had good firepower, best speed (not that hard against japanese DD), and us smoke.

 

Today:

  1. She still has good firepower, but serious new competitors got introduced. (Maas, bliska, leningrad and maybe Gadjah mada)
  2. She isn't the fastest DD at that tier anymore (leningrad and even more if you use def AA)
  3. US smoke is still good but there is 3 cruiser at that tier with radar, german cruisers with improved hydro and german DD with hydro.
  4. The only strong point she kept is her turning circle.

The ship is more and more obsolete, what will it be when RN, French and italian DD will be there?

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Sims will always have God tier AA, crazy DPM, great torp mine spam and best manoeuvrability in the game. Those are very appealing features.

 

5 hours ago, rigawe said:

 

I checked on https://wows-numbers.com/ships/ the stats of the ship. And well, theory and reality are quite different.

 

Sims Winrate is at 48.15%, the closest ship to that is the Akatsuki at 49.47%.

 

Compare the most recent stats if you must.

 

VTMc6qg.png

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Interesting, I guess you used https://eu.warships.today/?

Seems odd even when I check all time the two website don't give the same number.

One of them is more trust worthy than the other?

 

Can we expend the period?

2 weeks reduce the number of game played on this ship greatly.

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Weekend Tester
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Sims is a brilliant ship! It has awful torps but it almost doesn't matter, the guns and general package are more than enough to compensate and the XP multiplier is just the perfect icing on an already great cake.

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Since we seem to have some skilled Sims players in this thread I would like to have some help on how to set up and play this destroyer which I own after gotten lucky in a super-container today. Already own a Blyskavica but have never feared any Sims I encountered.

 

It seems to be similar to a C-hull Benson with slow torpedoes, a.k.a dakka dakka dakka while dodging or hiding in smoke?

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12 hours ago, rigawe said:

AA ability isn't so interesting considering the problem with CV population right now, maybe it will change later.

 

I would look at the torps. I couldn't remember when the sims got its second set of torps. Was it before or after WG changed the torps on US DD line?

Mahan is using the same torps  Marks 15 mod. 0 with reduced speed but increased range. So maybe being able to choose between this two version?

[...]

The torps were changed way after the USN DD torps got changed. The Sims was burdened with 5,5km torps for quite a long time. In order to cater to the players the Sims had gotten the 49kn 8500dmg 9.2km torpedoes as an alternative.

36 minutes ago, affie said:

Since we seem to have some skilled Sims players in this thread I would like to have some help on how to set up and play this destroyer which I own after gotten lucky in a super-container today. Already own a Blyskavica but have never feared any Sims I encountered.

 

It seems to be similar to a C-hull Benson with slow torpedoes, a.k.a dakka dakka dakka while dodging or hiding in smoke?

She is indeed very similar to the C-hull Benson. The torpedoes can both be a blessing and a curse. The good part is that due to the slowness of the torpedoes that people don't expect that torpedoes are still coming at them and turn back before the torpedoes are at range, causing them to hit the torpedoes. The damage of the torpedoes isn't high, but they have a good flooding chance. Another good part is that the moment the torpedoes reach max range, you have a new set reloaded and you can send a second set their way. There is quite a high chance to get 2 floodings in a row with these torps and this will probably kill them. Even though the base damage of the torpedoes isn't that high.

Another good thing about the Sims torpedoes is that they aren't too bad to dodge. The enemy might eat one. BUT if you time it right, then the enemy will force to turn to avoid your torpedoes but eat someone elses torpedoes that will do a lot more damage. This is done largely with luck, but if pulled off correctly it can really devastate someone.

As for the rest of the ship, she has a minimum detection of 6.6km if you have CE. This is the second best concealment at her tier. Only when she is up tiered she really struggles. But all DDs at that tier suffer from the same thing.

As for the setup, I run with my Fletcher captain. This is a 19pt captain. I have found that the skills for the Fletcher are also really handy to have with the Sims. The thing is that I change my Fletcher captain a lot to see if there is a different setup that might be better and this might not be the final and best setup. Not to mention that since these ships are so flexible there is not really 1 good setup, but a myriad of setups that can all work with different playstyles. But this is mine :

Priority Target, Preventive Maintenance
Adrenaline Rush, Last Stand

Survivability Expert, Basic Firing Training, Demolition Expert

Concealment Expert

Modules : Main Armament Mod. 1, Aiming Systems Mod. 1, Propulsion Mod 1, Propulsion Mod. 2

Flags : I tend to not run combat flags. But just economy due to the good economy of the Sims

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I run, PM, LS, SE, RP/RL, CE, SI and finally AR.

 

This is a competitive Ranked build but works fine in Random Battles too.

 

I'll explain the way I play her:

 

Firstly look at the line up, what tiers are you VS? If you're vs T8+ DDs then they'll likely have the concealment advantage, if you're top tier then you maybe on par with others. Experience will tell you who you can and cannot out spot. Also note the amount of radar and hydro ships.

 

Remember your primary role is to spot the enemy, whilst its less common in Random Battles you can actually go entire Ranked games without firing a shot yet still win. Why is this? Because of the Sim's amazing manoeuvrability and size you can bait enemy DDs who will start shooting at you, their team will start shooting at you HOWEVER you do NOT SHOOT BACK. Instead you have already turned away and you're dodging erratically to throw off their aim. Enemy DDs will be gun bloomed, your team should hopefully shoot them for you. A bit of F3 encouragement doesn't hurt either. If you are 100% sure you won't suffer gun bloom focus fire then by all means assist your team in shooting the enemy DD. 

 

Don't be too aggressive at the start anyway even though you are doing the above, as the more HP you have for late game the better you'll do.

 

Once enemy DDs are dead then you can focus on the bigger ships. If there are other DDs, CV planes or simply enemy players who have no gun discipline then feel free to use your smoke to HE spam stuff in range. Of course, the smoke can be used to cover your team too and Cruisers still benefit from smoke firing.

 

Take Defensive AA instead of Speed Boost. Even in non CV games it is useful for nailing that pesky spotter plane that is showing everyone where you are.

 

Use the 9.2km torps, they can be used to torp smoke or area deny. Enemy BBs will often have no idea what is firing the torps at them so will treat all torps like nuclear missiles even though Sims torps do trash damage. The average enemy potato team can have an entire flank shut down by torps, often they'll simply be too chicken to flush you out or even push. This will entertain you as you appreciate the level of player you're often up against. Sims torps do have a fairly good flooding chance so feel free to HE spam with or without smoke and before or after torps hit. Do tell your team what's flooded as the HE spammers will be keen to farm damage and will want to switch targets to whatever it is you've flooded. Finally, don't hold onto the torps, because they're so slow and weak just fire them off to await the reload, don't rely on them getting damage but if you fire enough of them then something will get through. 

 

Now RPF/RL is used to see the intentions of the nearest DD (well usually DD). Anything that has better concealment with you can still be dealt with via RPF as you know where they're going and can either avoid them or rush them according to the situation. RPF is especially amusing when a DD tries to hide in smoke from you, aslong as they don't have hydro then you'll likely get the jump on them. One thing I do is I'll change direction after their smoke cloud obscures me, if they don't have RPF you'll often see their torps fly off in the opposite direction as they assumed you haven't changed course.

 

When the time is right you can out muscle a lot of DDs 1 vs 1, but that's an experience call. Do consider what condition you'll be in after the 1v1, it may not be worth losing 75% HP to another DD when there's a lot of the enemy left. 

 

As a game goes on you can be more aggressive with your guns. Their damage may feel sucky but you can often solo Cruisers on 25% HP if you have smoke cover or they're distracted.

 

For modules I'll take the detonation reduction one, the AA range increase one (but keep AA disabled unless u are shooting specific targets), anything in the 3rd slot, then the engine acceleration one. Your rudder is supreme so no need to buff it further.

 

Of course, this isn't the only way to use Sims but it's a template that works for a lot of DDs. 

 

I'm not the best DD player around so feel to disagree with any of this and to be quite honest I'm somewhat conservative in the way I play DDs compared to some. 

 

You can forget all the above if you want and carry on complaining Sims is weak, I'll happily accept some buffs but those in the know understand this ship is seriously strong if not slightly OP even with the introduction of other ships. Remember, DDs raw firepower and HP are often irrelevant as your brain or lack of really makes the difference in the end. 

 

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The terrible 9.2 km torps needs to be removed and the 5.5km ones should be 8km. That's only and real buff this DD needs.

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The Sims was introduced in CBT, when there was no hydro, no radar, only slow turning battleships, and slow firing IJN destroyers. It can shine still, but mostly it has been left behind.

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On 28/11/2017 at 0:42 PM, ABED1984 said:

The terrible 9.2 km torps needs to be removed and the 5.5km ones should be 8km. That's only and real buff this DD needs.

 

On 28/11/2017 at 11:47 PM, Akula971 said:

The Sims was introduced in CBT, when there was no hydro, no radar, only slow turning battleships, and slow firing IJN destroyers. It can shine still, but mostly it has been left behind.

 

I first disagreed as I'm a die hard Sims user till the bitter end. I've likely grasped the concept of a USN DD and effectively employ them vs the majority of opposition out there.

 

Yeah there's been a lot of power creep, loads of radar, almost every MM will feature atleast 25% of ships if not more packing hydro. 

 

Thing is WG's Prem policy works both ways, they very seldom nerf OP Perms and instead withdraw them and will only buff Prems after a lot of "data". Sims still has a place but possibly a Kidd is a better buy these days. 

 

I get the torp issue as it feels like the newer T7 DDs all have effective 8km torps so they can be easily used from stealth but are fast enough/pack enough of a punch to nuke BBs. The example I'm thinking of is the Lenin which has brilliant fishes and can get nearly 10 knots MORE speed than a Sims. I bought a Lenin last week and the tactical flexibility something that fast offers is "interesting". 

 

 

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I dont think its a case of the Sims needing a buff but more an issue of somethings needing a nerf. for example radar and hydro.

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i have Sims, only thing is that i would love the torps to bit a bit faster, but not by much.

It is much more team support orientated DD, if you want massive damage this is not the DD for you, you have to think of the team.

Smoking cruisers, screening BB's from torp attacks, allowing the damage dealers to do there job.

This is one ship that is greatly improved the higher skilled your Capt is.

417 battles at 60%

Main Arm mod 1, Prop mod 1, Aiming system and Prop mod 2

Capt,

PT

AR, LS

SE, Super

RL, Camo. (i choose RL because it gives you and your team so much info)

 

Just make sure you are always giving your team info, flooding and fire repairs, radio location changes.

Being able to shoot over mountains is great nothing can hide, just the shells take a couple of days to get to the target at max range ;-)

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On 11/24/2017 at 8:30 AM, Hugh_Ruka said:

Stat whore complaining ?

 

Do you have fun with the ship ? Does it work for you and you gameplay style ? YES ??? Then the hell with the stats ...

we all know stats are just matter of luck and "fun" is ultimate factor for tomatos, braindeads and BBabies.

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On ‎11‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 1:35 AM, stewie533 said:

The torps? Those got buffed already. Buff them even more?

 

My grandmother is faster than Sims water mines.

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4 hours ago, Exohoritis said:

 

My grandmother is faster than Sims water mines.

Cool granny you have 

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Sims feel pretty fine honestly. Only real issue are the torps like people pointed out already. But the 9.2 km torps do have their fun factor. The fast reload and slow speed means you can carpet a cap point with torps, and their low detectibility catches people often.

 

But it is dishartening to get 2 torp hits on a DD and not killing it since the damage is pathetic. So there is that. But I'm not sure if I want to trade the range and stealth for a bit more damage when the guns are your main source of damage anyways and the torps are "just" a nice area denying tool or a way to get people to move.

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Nothing wrong with the Sims..... the Mines are hilarious and can get you torp hits you never expect, guns are great AA is awesome..... speed is good... for T7 ranked it was the king !

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