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Is this the meta in this game ?

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I don't play this game a lot, it manages to suck me in for a month or two every once in a while. I do think this is a very nice game and perhaps if I would be better I might enjoy it even more, but still i don't think I am the worst player ever. I try to carry my weight around and since I have all the ships I ever wanted then I am happy to stay at tier 7 and 8. I have no desire to go further then that.

 

But still, I have to ask one question. 

 

Racing behind an island, set a smoke and spam HE all day long, is this the meta of this game ?

 

When I see those British BB's, I know straight the way what's gonna happen, HE spam. Chapyev, Leander, Kutizov, Atlanta, go smoke behind an island and spam HE like a boss. For me this is not fun, they probably do a great job by positioning them self in the right place and slowly burning down the BB's to death, but I don't feel like this is something rewarding. It's like camping the entire battle in one spot, do 120-150-200k of HE damage and call it a great game ? Is it interesting game, breathtaking or the one that makes your hands shake  ? No, I don't think so.

 

Ok, get your pitch forks ready, if this forum is similar to the one in WoT, I can expect all sorts of things.

 

 

 

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What you're seeing is the obvious thing everyone (except WG obviously) predicted from the start:
Buffing BBs over and over again for 2 years in a row forced the "I hide and pew pew HE while DDs play their own game on cap, with sporadic death from afar BBs fire"

You can walk around saying "this sucks" all you want, it's just a natural reaction to having one class being so dominant that the only other that can thrive is the one that suffers the least from it.
If changes are to be made, you have to look at and fix the root problem first.

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Unfortunately as has been said, the meta has evolved like this because of other factors. Quite simply a cruiser in open water when theres 5 BB that heavily outrange it and are accurate enough even at max range is a dead cruiser.

The 3 choices for survival are stay far enough away you can dodge the inbound shells, sit in smoke as you're harder to hit, or get behind a low island.

 

Something like the atlanta which has ~13km range if it takes AFT (11 if it doesn't) and doesnt have a smoke generator doesnt have a huge amount of choice when facing ships that have a 23km range and are pretty accurate under 16km

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You wonder why cruisers sit behind islands and in smoke spamming HE? 

Well, if they don't the game would be even more boring. Sail out from spawn, daka daka and get deleted by one of the 5 BB's on the red team.

Next game daka daka, deleted. 

Next daka daka, gone.

Get my point? 

To many BB's forces cruisers to play EXTREMELY careful. If not, (you guessed it) deleted. 

 

So if you want anything to change. Ask for BB's to be limited to 3 pr team. That way cruisers can feel a bit more safe and there is more targets for BB's. Win, win. 

 

BUT. This will probably never happen since WG keeps pumping out BB's like theres no tomorrow. Its like they know the ship is about to sink and are trying to earn as much money on premium BB's they possible can before it's over.  :cap_money:

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On 11/23/2017 at 6:05 PM, TrewSx said:

I don't play this game a lot, it manages to suck me in for a month or two every once in a while. I do think this is a very nice game and perhaps if I would be better I might enjoy it even more, but still i don't think I am the worst player ever. I try to carry my weight around and since I have all the ships I ever wanted then I am happy to stay at tier 7 and 8. I have no desire to go further then that.

 

But still, I have to ask one question. 

 

Racing behind an island, set a smoke and spam HE all day long, is this the meta of this game ?

 

When I see those British BB's, I know straight the way what's gonna happen, HE spam. Chapyev, Leander, Kutizov, Atlanta, go smoke behind an island and spam HE like a boss. For me this is not fun, they probably do a great job by positioning them self in the right place and slowly burning down the BB's to death, but I don't feel like this is something rewarding. It's like camping the entire battle in one spot, do 120-150-200k of HE damage and call it a great game ? Is it interesting game, breathtaking or the one that makes your hands shake  ? No, I don't think so.

 

Ok, get your pitch forks ready, if this forum is similar to the one in WoT, I can expect all sorts of things.

 

 

 

 

*Edited

Edited by Nohe21
*This post has been edited by the moderation team due to non-constructive content.
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The island/ smoke pewpewing isn't a thing of recent. It has always been there. Camping BB's as well. It has become more prevalent since the BB influx when the German line was launched. And yes I totally agree BB's have been overbuffed.

 

The ships you mentioned. Chapyev, Leander, Kutuzov, Atlanta. Chapayev, Kutuzov and Atlanta aren't strong opening phase ships. So I understand they pick a more low level position in the beginning of a match. They start to shine in mid to end phases. I still need to figure out the role of Leander and the rest of the RN cruiserline. In 99% of the cases i see them hiding behind islands doing nothing. In 99% of the rest of the cases pewpewing from smoke from 50 lightyears away, giving me enough time to make a coffee before I adjust my course.

 

The British BB's. For me that line was like the US cruiserline all the way. Every time I thought I 'figured it out' the next tier played completely different. I was shocked to find out in KGV actually giving as much broadside as possible gave me the best chance of getting away with a AP salvo... Also shot AP most of the times. Playing Monqueror now I highly like that ship. And yes in the opening phase I take a lower profile as well. When I find a good shooting spot I'll use it. Conqueror isn't the best brawling ship ingame. So softening targets up first will give me an advantage later. And with not the best brawler I mean it can't take much hits very well. Even its superheal can't keep up with being focused down by 4 or 5 ships. However make no mistake: it can brawl. Trick the red into believing you keep spamming HE and he'll be inclined to give you broadside. Close range AP salvo's are devastating. And it's vital you don't make the mistake of camping there all game long. When a push is made be ready to join it or it'll be smothered and you're next.

 

It's all like you already answered your own question: positioning is the most vital part of wows. Also the most difficult one. And there is not "1 every time working" strategy: for nearly every position there's a counter position. wows is not a lightning fast pace game. Try to mobilize your team to surround the island camper, flush him out, focus him down. And if you don't get support, try to position yourself where he can't hit you either, thus rendering him less useful for his team. A ship unable to fire or play an objective is almost as good an opponent as a sunken one.

 

Regarding the smoke pewpewers that won't have to be a big problem too often. First when playing a DD the answer is simple: fill the smoke with torps. Same with torp capable cruisers (watch range and friendlies of course). Cruisers (and others) with radar: radar the smoker even if you but can't your teammates can fire at him. I also switched fighters to spotterplanes in most relevant BB's. With practice and patience you can quite well deduct the position of the pewpewer by looking at his gun blooms. Chance of hitting is of couse far less then when he's targetted but, also considering you're a WOT player, you know what they say which shot has the guaranteed chance to miss...

 

Special note for smoke abled cruisers from BB POV (also cruiser): don't shoot right away and see if they're slowing down in TV. That means they're preparing a smoke pewpewsession.  Take a few seconds to aim, do that with roughly 1/2 to 1/3 speed lead and fire the second they disappear. Stat is still my main hobby in this game: brake, fade, boom. So lovely to almost see the outcry of the player who just thought for 1 millisecond "phew I'm safe, cause they don't see me."

 

Last special note for RN smokers: if you can't "pinpoint" it's location turn your nose or aft towards the hail. That'll mitigate the damage most. Best is Aft and sail away from the cloud: the longer the distance, the harder he's finding it to hit you. Wiggle in a unpredictable pattern and those shot that do hit aren't the end of the world. Usually it takes like 20 to 30 hits to see a 1000 dmg pop up.

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I don't have answers how to fix these problems. I can also sympathize with Cruisers players being soft targets and having low range (Well, the Russian premium cruiser have like 19km range, that's far enough. Chapayev or Kutizov, don't know which one now.) 

 

I tried cruisers, because I like medium tank game play in WoT and I thought this might be similar. I suck at driving cruisers so I stopped, DD's are something I don't enjoy either, but I always liked BB's. I feel like I have enough time to make a decision and if I overextend my self I can still have a chance to escape, plus the heal is nice as well. 

 

Much like Tiger I in WoT was the reason i started playing, the Bismarck was the main thing for me here. I kept Gneu, because she is nice a ship and I enjoy the secondaries on both Bismarck and the Gneu. I don't like the HE spam, but I only expressed how I feel about it, I don't have answers. 

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7 minutes ago, Exohoritis said:

Chapyev, Leander, Kutizov, Atlanta, go smoke behind an island and spam HE like a boss.

Chapayev and Atlanta smoke?

Leander HE?

Haxxors!

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41 minutes ago, TrewSx said:

I don't play this game a lot, it manages to suck me in for a month or two every once in a while. I do think this is a very nice game and perhaps if I would be better I might enjoy it even more, but still i don't think I am the worst player ever. I try to carry my weight around and since I have all the ships I ever wanted then I am happy to stay at tier 7 and 8. I have no desire to go further then that.

 

But still, I have to ask one question. 

 

Racing behind an island, set a smoke and spam HE all day long, is this the meta of this game ?

 

When I see those British BB's, I know straight the way what's gonna happen, HE spam. Chapyev, Leander, Kutizov, Atlanta, go smoke behind an island and spam HE like a boss. For me this is not fun, they probably do a great job by positioning them self in the right place and slowly burning down the BB's to death, but I don't feel like this is something rewarding. It's like camping the entire battle in one spot, do 120-150-200k of HE damage and call it a great game ? Is it interesting game, breathtaking or the one that makes your hands shake  ? No, I don't think so.

 

Ok, get your pitch forks ready, if this forum is similar to the one in WoT, I can expect all sorts of things.

 

 

 

 

Because Chapayevs and Atlantas have smoke, and Leanders have HE? And server wide averages for these ships are 120k+?

 

The answer here of course is, no, no they don't, and no these ships aren't dominating in damage done.

 

So the answer is. No, this is not the meta. At your tiers the meta is more "10+ BBs per match, 3/4s who will sit in the rear whining that if they go closer than 20km they might get a fire on them".

 

/someone bring out the BBaby bingo please.

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2 minutes ago, SeeteufeI said:

Haxxor pls report!

I don't understand the meaning of your reply, as I've said before I only expressed how I feel about this thing. I've never said anything about hax or cheats, but if you choose your replies to be be the sort of a mockery, then by all means if it makes you happy, who am i to tell you otherwise.

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17 minutes ago, MortenTardo said:

So if you want anything to change. Ask for BB's to be limited to 3 pr team.

 

But WG aren't going to do this.

 

What's really needed is some kind of survivability buff for cruisers so that they're not such a tempting target for everybody and can survive being focused if they are, maybe some kind of change to the game mechanics so that they take reduced damage from citadel and regular penetration, maybe 2/3 of what it is now?

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50 minutes ago, TrewSx said:

I don't play this game a lot, it manages to suck me in for a month or two every once in a while. I do think this is a very nice game and perhaps if I would be better I might enjoy it even more, but still i don't think I am the worst player ever. I try to carry my weight around and since I have all the ships I ever wanted then I am happy to stay at tier 7 and 8. I have no desire to go further then that.

 

But still, I have to ask one question. 

 

Racing behind an island, set a smoke and spam HE all day long, is this the meta of this game ?

 

When I see those British BB's, I know straight the way what's gonna happen, HE spam. Chapyev, Leander, Kutizov, Atlanta, go smoke behind an island and spam HE like a boss. For me this is not fun, they probably do a great job by positioning them self in the right place and slowly burning down the BB's to death, but I don't feel like this is something rewarding. It's like camping the entire battle in one spot, do 120-150-200k of HE damage and call it a great game ? Is it interesting game, breathtaking or the one that makes your hands shake  ? No, I don't think so.

 

Ok, get your pitch forks ready, if this forum is similar to the one in WoT, I can expect all sorts of things.

 

 

 

No...

Take a look at the ships that can use smoke and shoot over islands.

There a very few that can do that and shoot HE.

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8 minutes ago, TrewSx said:

if you choose your replies to be be the sort of a mockery, then by all means if it makes you happy, who am i to tell you otherwise.

As the question, so the answer.

Said ships don't have said consumables/ammunition, as @AgarwaenME already mentioned.

Compare average damage of cruisers and battleships and get your mind blown.

In addition to that, a much bigger amount of fire damage can be healed than AP damage mainly caused by battleships.

Not that a lot of cruisers can use a heal...

 

I'd like to hear how cruisers should harm battleships in your opinion, other than by HE/fire.

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4 minutes ago, AgarwaenME said:

 

1) Because Chapayevs and Atlantas have smoke, and Leanders have HE? And server wide averages for these ships are 120k+?

 

The answer here of course is, no, no they don't, and no these ships aren't dominating in damage done.

 

2) At your tiers the meta is more "10+ BBs per match, 3/4s who will sit in the rear whining that if they go closer than 20km they might get a fire on them".

 

3) /someone bring out the BBaby bingo please.

1) One British cruiser does have a HE and AP, don't know which one my knowledge is not as high as your one. as for the damage numbers, this was just a random numbers, you don't have to take everything literally.

 

 2) Trust me at this tier I can see 6-10 DD's, roughly 8 BB's and the rest cruisers (of course the numbers differ so don't take this like this is happening in every game ). Yes some BB's are camping far back at the red line, which I don't agree with since BB's should be the one taking hits and using their HP pool, heal and armor to make room for following cruisers. I try to do that, not everyone is the same and not every BB player is camping far back at the border line.

 

3) This remind me of WoT forum, where asking a question is a capital punishment. Have a nice day.

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1 minute ago, TrewSx said:

3) This remind me of WoT forum, where asking a question is a capital punishment. Have a nice day.

It isn't, asking it for the 19618975th time is.

This topic triggers many people, as every day like ten threads regarding fire and HE damage are started, mainly by poor battleship commanders.

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Just now, TrewSx said:

1) One British cruiser does have a HE and AP, don't know which one my knowledge is not as high as your one. as for the damage numbers, this was just a random numbers, you don't have to take everything literally.

 

 2) Trust me at this tier I can see 6-10 DD's, roughly 8 BB's and the rest cruisers (of course the numbers differ so don't take this like this is happening in every game ). Yes some BB's are camping far back at the red line, which I don't agree with since BB's should be the one taking hits and using their HP pool, heal and armor to make room for following cruisers. I try to do that, not everyone is the same and not every BB player is camping far back at the border line.

 

3) This remind me of WoT forum, where asking a question is a capital punishment. Have a nice day.

 

So when you make up numbers, we shouldn't "take them literally"... numbers.. aren't to be taken "literally".. wow.

 

 So basicly what you're saying is, "I just make up whatever I want". There's a word for people like these; liars.

 

And the ONLY RN CL that has HE is the Belfast (at tier 7), a premium. And if your knowledge is this miniscule, then you might not want to toss out claims based on having little to no knowledge.

 

And lol what.. you see "6-10 DDs and roughly 8 BBs".. you do realise that "6-10" is the same as "roughly 8" right? Besides which one can easily check the actual amounts of each ship class brought to battles, so what you "see" isn't relevant at all. Never mind how you as already noted, have no qualms about just making up numbers so whatever you say on ship numbers should not be trusted at all.

 

And if you can't handle having facts pointed out to counter you making crap up (which is where YOU make this forum like the wot forums) then don't come here.

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3 minutes ago, TrewSx said:

 

3) This remind me of WoT forum, where asking a question is a capital punishment. Have a nice day.

 

I notice that you didn't really address my post, the very first, that had a non-accusatory tone.

Let's not nitpick numbers anymore for a second, yes what you highlighted makes some games dreary, but it's a problem born from a series of previous problems.
Players adapting to more and more hostile environments.
What's interesting is that it also translates into the forum, which is more touchy than ever when it comes down to potentially making said environment even worse. 

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5 minutes ago, SeeteufeI said:

As the question, so the answer.

Was I mocking someone, no.

Said ships don't have said consumables/ammunition, as @AgarwaenME already mentioned.

I apologize if my poor knowledge of every ship and possible consumables available offended you.

Compare average damage of cruisers and battleships and get your mind blown.

BB's have big guns = high dmg. Cruisers use HE to compensate for the lack of pen, easy to understand, no problem here.

In addition to that, a much bigger amount of fire damage can be healed than AP damage mainly caused by battleships.

Yes, that is true.

Not that a lot of cruisers can use a heal...

Some do, some don't, I think the high tier one's have heal. I can be always wrong.

 

I'd like to hear how cruisers should harm battleships in your opinion, other than by HE/fire

I am not asking for BB's to be immune to everything, HE is a valid choice, my only concern is the amount of HE flying around. And since, I don't camp and I try to be the brawler, I am the one who gets punished the most. While some ppl choose to snipe from 20km+ far away.

 

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6 minutes ago, TrewSx said:

1) One British cruiser does have a HE and AP, don't know which one my knowledge is not as high as your one.

 

 

That's the Belfast; it was recently withdrawn from sale...

 

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2 minutes ago, Exocet6951 said:

 

I notice that you didn't really address my post, the very first, that had a non-accusatory tone.

Let's not nitpick numbers anymore for a second, yes what you highlighted makes some games dreary, but it's a problem born from a series of previous problems.
Players adapting to more and more hostile environments.
What's interesting is that it also translates into the forum, which is more touchy than ever when it comes down to potentially making said environment even worse. 

I read your reply, it was informative and I appreciate you taking the time to write this in a polite manner. 

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1 minute ago, TrewSx said:

I am not asking for BB's to be immune to everything, HE is a valid choice, my only concern is the amount of HE flying around.

 

I would imagine there is a certain inevitability about lots of HE in use; I'm a colossal newbie (another WOT player), and I found that HE was a lot easier to make an impact with, at least to start with. Assuming this experience isn't unique, it follows that HE will always be heavily used, especially by newer players.

It might be worthwhile if greater emphasis was made on drawing people's attention to the advantages of AP; okay, you have to aim better, but not everyone knows how much difference citadels make - it's quite a revelation when you realise (as a newbie).

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20 minutes ago, SeeteufeI said:

Chapayev and Atlanta smoke?

Leander HE?

Haxxors!

 

I was going through the replys, looking whos gonna beat me to write exactly that :D

 

@TrewSx You said it yourself a few times now - you lack the knowledge about what ship brings what to the table. Thats why you lose encounters with them. And then u think, someones gonna take this topic serious? I could also say "Man screw this Yamato, it hunted me down in my khabarovsk, cuz he is faster then me" someone would call me out, pointing my a$$ to the FACT, that the khaba is infact way faster then the Yamato. So im suppose to say "Oooh look its like WoT Forum, nitpicker". Aye....

 

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15 minutes ago, TrewSx said:

my only concern is the amount of HE flying around

1 hour ago, TrewSx said:

When I see those British BB's, I know straight the way what's gonna happen, HE spam

 

Yep, theres the problem. Blame WG. Now that they made a BB line where shooting HE is atleast as productive as shooting AP, suddenly many other BBs shoot HE too, because they got killed by *insert mean RN BB shooting HE*

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8 minutes ago, TrewSx said:

I read your reply, it was informative and I appreciate you taking the time to write this in a polite manner. 

 

You're welcome.

What you have to take into consideration is that the forum is heavily populated by long term players, players who like playing the game in its entirety, as in all classes and nations.
WG have been very obviously catering to players who are attracted by battleships, and have been making that class just so damn comfortable to play that all other classes suffer from it.

So when someone comes along and even insinuates that BBs have it hard, it's 2 years' worth of frustration that comes down on the poor guy.
If I'm being frank, the only reason I'm not being more hostile as well is because the cup of coffee I just had was fantastic, and the whisky waiting for me patiently in the next room looks delicious, so I'm in a pretty good mood right now.

It really is a shame the forums are not as friendly as they used to, but as you can see, seeing a game you love slowly turn into a "enter credit card info, for easy peasy ship while critical game problems are blatantly being ignored" takes a toll on the friendliness.

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9 minutes ago, AgarwaenME said:

 

So when you make up numbers, we shouldn't "take them literally"... numbers.. aren't to be taken "literally".. wow.

So you are saying there is no way a Cruiser player can do 120 or 150k dmg at tier 7 or tier 8 ? Or even 200k damage ?

 

 So basicly what you're saying is, "I just make up whatever I want". There's a word for people like these; liars.

No, I gave and an example, that's all, no need to call me a liar for giving a roughly a few numbers. 

 

And the ONLY RN CL that has HE is the Belfast (at tier 7), a premium. And if your knowledge is this miniscule, then you might not want to toss out claims based on having little to no knowledge.

Ok, I get it, I have no right to be posting on this forum.

 

And lol what.. you see "6-10 DDs and roughly 8 BBs".. you do realise that "6-10" is the same as "roughly 8" right? Besides which one can easily check the actual amounts of each ship class brought to battles, so what you "see" isn't relevant at all. Never mind how you as already noted, have no qualms about just making up numbers so whatever you say on ship numbers should not be trusted at all.

You've said 10+BB's, the difference is minimal, I agree.

 

And if you can't handle having facts pointed out to counter you making crap up (which is where YOU make this forum like the wot forums) then don't come here.

I have no problem with facts, as long as the conversation is in civilized manner. 

 

PS: yes, maybe this topic is not exactly a new one, perhaps you have it here on daily basis, but I have made only 4 posts until today so cut me some slack, will ya.

 

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