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Ferry_25

Lootbox discussion

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As you'll probably know the internet is exploding around the lootbox debate. EA is in a ****storm about the crates in BFII now. We obviously have lootboxes (LB) too in Wows. I'm curious to your POV on this matter. Personally I don't mind them. Wows is a F2P game. If you want you can invest RL cash to gain advantages. But if not IMO this game is perfectly playable without. The 3 categories of prizes from LB's are combat, cosmetic and economical. The current LB's purchasable are from the Yamamoto campaign. The content is clearly stated beforehand: 1 dragnflag (?) and 2 Yamamoto items. The Dragonflags are purely economical and the Y-items can be won ingame through the daily containers. So no argument from me.

I only had reservations with last year's Christmas containers. IIRC you could win banned ships like Gremmy and Nicolai. Now IMO that is gambling. Paying for a chance to win ingame items which gives you an deemed unfair advantage. And that's what the debate is mainly about (aside to buy items in a non F2P game).

 

So I don't have any problems with the LB in wows. All things can be won if you're a F2P-er and I really have the feeling I want to purchase them and not having too (besides the Christmas ones).

 

What are your thoughts?

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4 minutes ago, Ferry_25 said:

As you'll probably know the internet is exploding around the lootbox debate. EA is in a ****storm about the crates in BFII now. We obviously have lootboxes (LB) too in Wows. I'm curious to your POV on this matter. Personally I don't mind them. Wows is a F2P game. If you want you can invest RL cash to gain advantages. But if not IMO this game is perfectly playable without. The 3 categories of prizes from LB's are combat, cosmetic and economical. The current LB's purchasable are from the Yamamoto campaign. The content is clearly stated beforehand: 1 dragnflag (?) and 2 Yamamoto items. The Dragonflags are purely economical and the Y-items can be won ingame through the daily containers. So no argument from me.

I only had reservations with last year's Christmas containers. IIRC you could win banned ships like Gremmy and Nicolai. Now IMO that is gambling. Paying for a chance to win ingame items which gives you an deemed unfair advantage. And that's what the debate is mainly about (aside to buy items in a non F2P game).

 

So I don't have any problems with the LB in wows. All things can be won if you're a F2P-er and I really have the feeling I want to purchase them and not having too (besides the Christmas ones).

 

What are your thoughts?

That at some point the EU will probably regulate or ban entirely loot boxes due to the loot box business model's lottery/gambling nature.

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Yes, there are lootboxes in WoWs. I don't see them as critical as they were meant to be in BF-II though.

 

The reason why I have no problem with them here, is the fact that you can't buy them and that they don't provide you with major advanteges over your peer players and you can get them by simply playing. You are not locked out from succeeding or advancing if you don't get them. At least the normal ones.

 

Christmas, Halloween, and other similar containers, as they are called in WoWs, might be a different beast though. Those invite you to spend money until you either are unwilling or incapable of spending more, or until you succeed in getting whatever it is you wanted. Like the EA ones everyone is talking about, they should fall under the same regulations that Belgium, the state of Hawaii and others are planning to put on them. It might be a good idea by WG to be proactive and to not sell those, or similar ones, again.

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I don't really get the lootbox fuzz. I think the discussion arose mainly because young children might just recklessly spent a lot of money on lootboxes.

Lootboxes seem to me like card packs in trading/collectible card games. Some packs feature insane value, others are trash, but you don't know until you open them. Those have been around for a couple of decades now. Was there ever anything wrong with that? It has a similar 'gamble-y' nature as lootboxes.

So if that was okay, why shouldn't lootboxes?

 

B.t.w. I like the boxes as they are in WoWs. Some small nice add ons.

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1 hour ago, CountOfTuscany said:

I don't really get the lootbox fuzz. I think the discussion arose mainly because young children might just recklessly spent a lot of money on lootboxes.

Lootboxes seem to me like card packs in trading/collectible card games. Some packs feature insane value, others are trash, but you don't know until you open them. Those have been around for a couple of decades now. Was there ever anything wrong with that? It has a similar 'gamble-y' nature as lootboxes.

So if that was okay, why shouldn't lootboxes?

 

B.t.w. I like the boxes as they are in WoWs. Some small nice add ons.

As someone who plays TCGs, the reason that card packs for CCGs/TCGs aren't the same is because you can trade the physical item with another person who has what you want.

You can also sell any extras you have/don't want to make money towards your next purchase.

You can't do that in a video game.

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14 minutes ago, Captain_LOZFFVII said:

As someone who plays TCGs, the reason that card packs for CCGs/TCGs aren't the same is because you can trade the physical item with another person who has what you want.

You can also sell any extras you have/don't want to make money towards your next purchase.

You can't do that in a video game.

And how about digital CCGs, Hearthstone fe? You can't trade those cards.

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4 minutes ago, CountOfTuscany said:

And how about digital CCGs, Hearthstone fe? You can't trade those cards.

I don't play it, but isn't that just another F2P game?

Fundamentally, I'm fine with Lootboxes in F2P games, but Microtransactions in general should never be in P2P games.

 

I'd like to see how lootboxes and card packs get handled in F2P games once regulations start coming in.

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From a company perspective lootboxes only exist as a way to make customers spend more to get what they want than they normally would if they could buy said item directly.

 

I personally don't mind it for free lootboxes/containers that you get from gameplay, but I am not a fan of buyable lootboxes.

 

At least with the Yamamoto box there is the argument that if you bought one it will also cause collection items to appear in regular crates which I guess would be nice for people who can't (be bothered to) finish the campaign.

 

I have absolutely no sympathy for EA (and others) who are rightly getting bashed for this stuff. They themselves state that these microtransactions don't impact their ability to make profits, so the only reason they include it is the potential for profits without upper limits. Add to that that these crates often find themselves into games that already ask for a 60 euro entrance fee, have a season pass, numerous DLC, etc.. I remember 10 years or so ago when buying a game at full price also meant that you got the full experience, but these days that clearly is no longer the case now.

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IMO, this shouls only be Between Consumer and Companies. Voting with wallet works as shown with Battlefront 2 being down in sales %60 from Battlefront 1. Any governments getting involved is a scary thought. One they have their foot in the door to regulating Video games whats to stop them from bashing the door open and regulating everything else. (looking at you Germany)

 

this is relevant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope

 

 

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As long as they're given out for free and/or don't provide players with serious advantages I have no problems with lootboxes.

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[NED]
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One of the major issues of the debate is the question whether or not the LB are a form of gambling. IMO in a way they are. Even here at wows. You know by forehand what will be in the Yamamoto box but it's a chance of which particular flag or collection item you'll be getting. But it's not like you'll have a chance to win 1 million euro's from a lootbox. The raw deal is: you lose money and you get a product back. In all the LB cases access to a computer program. From a business perspective I can fully understand it. and I'm not even opposing it. Not in business myself but I figured out the game. "Fool the people, let them give you their cash." It's as simple as that. And I can vote with my wallet. Hard. I'm happy to pay for what I want as long as I'm having the feeling that product is what I want. Wow, WG I love your game so much and I want to have that ship so badly, I'll throw in the admiral version in an eye blink.

 

The shell closes the second I got the feeling something's being pushed to me. So no way in life I'll be buying BF II, not even would take it if it'd be a F2P game. I don't like the feeling of "oh, buy that LB and you might get the Darth Vader hero instantly, because that figure will make you very much more powerful in the game" (don't know if I'm stating a fact here. All I saw were some YT movies). Another example is I very rarely go shopping. Main reason is I simply refuse to pay for a parking spot: I'm already coming to spend money but I will not spend more in some imagined money wrench. Oh, funny anecdote: in the last "media hype" called "credit crisis" when the world economy was threatening to fall apart once again our MP called people to buy a new car and don't be so pessimistic all the time! I said: "sure thing Mark. You lower your insane VAT to a reasonable level first and I'll race to the nearest garage right now." That was, like, 5 years ago? Still driving my same car (which I still very much like).

 

But I think not all people can reason the same way and let their emotions get in their ways. So "succumbing" for the urge to buy those LB's out of "fear" not belonging to a certain group. I mean no offense OC and not saying I have all the wisdom. So I do think it's a good thing policy is being made up to form rules to make it clear for everybody and protect people who are needing that.

 

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The greatest issue with lootboxes (at least, how they stood in BF2) was that they were being sold in a game aimed at children.

This is the main reason various governments have started taking a closer look and trying to work out if they are a form of gambling (they are).

After all, it is illegal to promote gambling to minors.

 

You guys seen Jim Sterling's latest video on the subject?

Spoiler

 

I think a certain Mouse may not be terribly excited.

 

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