ThePurpleSmurf

I expect that the Pan-Asian DDs will change the gameplay to the worse

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94 posts in this topic

21 minutes ago, creamgravy said:

 

Oh, most of these ships are OP but that won't effect popularity. Hardly anyone plays Khaba even though it's been around for years. People just want to sail famous ships like Bismarck or Yamato.

 

16 minutes ago, Spellfire40 said:

Nobody outside the US really knows wgats a clemson is and sealcluber play her.....let me ask nobody will play this? dream on. A faster isokaze with  prenerf Trops and nicklas guns......


Have to agree with Spellfire.

Just one Word:

HMS Balance Conqueror


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They told me sealclubbing is bad so they removed manual drop from low tier CVs, but then they make this abomination. Seriously, what in the name of RNGesus are they thinking? She's

a Minekaze

with hilarious smoke spam potential

and pre-nerf torps (even if they are DW)

AND Nicholas guns.

Who in their right mind would think this is a balanced combination?!

 

(Please note that I do agree low tier CVs needed some nerfing, but removing alt attacks was not the way to do it.)


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5 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

They told me sealclubbing is bad so they removed manual drop from low tier CVs, but then they make this abomination. Seriously, what in the name of RNGesus are they thinking?

 

You havent it figured it out? New silverline = OP = all the newbs want to have it = free XP up the line = dont have free XP = use dubloons = dont have credits to buy the new ships = use dubloons == $$$$$$$$$$$

 

 

Funny-Money-Meme-Thought-I-Had-Some-Money-And-Its-Gone-Image.jpg


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Nothing more to say to those PA DDs... Yep, why bother with torping when your guns can shred anything else?

But makes sense. First lets say Sealclubbing CVs are bad, so lets make them useless in terms of learning the class. Then make Duguay Trouin (which i consider borderline OP for T4). Then make Orion (just OP). Now this DD (seems as OP as Orion). Holy crap how will the RN CV on T4 look like in the future? Now u all think im saying its gonna be OP. Probably will have 2 squads with 3 AP Divebombers and an area the size of 3 yamatos :Smile_trollface:


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1 hour ago, El2aZeR said:

She's a Minekaze

with hilarious smoke spam potential

and pre-nerf torps (even if they are DW)

AND Nicholas guns.

Who in their right mind would think this is a balanced combination?!

 

 

Playing devils advocate for a minute:

  • the torps only have 6.4 km range against a 6.5 km base detection;
  • the torpedo DPM is low for the tier;
  • the gun DPM is nothing special, a lot better than Isokaze, a bit worse than V170, a lot worse than Clemson/Izy.

I think the balancing factor is the captain, if you can slot in a high tier captain with CE then it becomes a very powerful ship, but as a standalone line I guess most players won't have a captain available so maybe it's just very strong for the tier.


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8 minutes ago, Capra76 said:

 

Playing devils advocate for a minute:

  • the torps only have 6.4 km range against a 6.5 km base detection;
  • the torpedo DPM is low for the tier;
  • the gun DPM is nothing special, a lot better than Isokaze, a bit worse than V170, a lot worse than Clemson/Izy.

I think the balancing factor is the captain, if you can slot in a high tier captain with CE then it becomes a very powerful ship, but as a standalone line I guess most players won't have a captain available so maybe it's just very strong for the tier.

 

LoYang and Anshan :cap_hmm:

6,5 km is without camo. Everyone can use that so its < 6,4km.

 

Its the big picture tho:

Basicly stealth torps with insane speed, also the ship has an insane speed itself.

V-170 can stealth torp but torps are slower. Isokaze can stealthtorp but once again slower torps (also guns are crap)

Imo 2x3 torp launchers are superior to the others.


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20 minutes ago, Capra76 said:

I think the balancing factor is the captain

 

Which argues precisely against WG's previous statement of "pls no sealclubbing lol".


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5 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

Which argues precisely against WG's previous statement of "pls no sealclubbing lol".

Idk about you guys, but i will just abuse the sh1t outta the Pan-DDs until i get arrested for rape, or Wargaming starts to actually balance their game.. :Smile_Default:


Yeeaahhhh......

 

Spoiler

See ya in jail. :Smile_bajan2:

 


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18 hours ago, ThePurpleSmurf said:

[...]

Most of your assumptions/fears are revolving around the difficulty to adapt to these dds on the receiving end (BBs & CA/Cls) and the ease with which good players will abuse them while bad player fare poorly because they will make bad choices. In one word, a challenging but strong DD line.

After one year of constant **** throwing at WG by the community for "catering to the big bad BB players"/"the bottom of the barrel", I cannot help but think that this community would rather still play the very first version of this game than see any change and is capable of remarkable 360° when it comes to opinion as long as they are never in line with WG.

Now, not saying the line will be perfect and there is nothing wrong with it but come on, change is fun in itself!


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5 minutes ago, Terendir said:

Idk about you guys, but i will just abuse the sh1t outta the Pan-DDs until i get arrested for rape, or Wargaming starts to actually balance their game.. :Smile_Default:

 

Probably the best method to make them "nerf" certain ships. Play them to their absolute maximum so when WG looks at the stats: oh crap, its OP, need nerf. But first every potato has to use $$$ to buy his way to T10


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2 hours ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

You havent it figured it out? New silverline = OP = all the newbs want to have it = free XP up the line = dont have free XP = use dubloons = dont have credits to buy the new ships = use dubloons == $$$$$$$$$$$

 

 

On the contrary I do not expect too many players rushing at these ships.

  • They are not big bad boom-making Battlesheeps, so many potatoes won't be interested in them.
  • They have a very special reason for existing: BB Soup. Against many other ships their usefullness is rather small, which probably will keep quite a few regular DD players away from them
  • they are just reskins of existing ships (afaik) with modyfied equipment. And they aren't really that historically important. So no "must have" reason there either

I guess I will take a look at the line and probably use the low tier ones as addition to my sealclubbing fleet.

 

And I still want a Shimakaze with 20 km range DW torpedoes and torpedo launcher speedup... 20 km torpedosoup for enemy BBs at the map edge... priceless!


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4 hours ago, Teob_VG said:

Yes, of course not having torpedoes is a disadvantage. But what I meant is that you shouldn't be a free kill to a Gearing.

 

And the Khaba thing, I don't think I've run into Khabas with RPF very often if at all. And while I am aware it can run you down, it will have to do so while under fire from your teammates. 

I think I've only been chased like that by a Khaba a couple of times at most.

I don't see it happening and Khabas don't tend to pray on other DDs most of the time.

 

Look, of course PADDs are susceptible to being charged down by other DDs. It can certainly happen. They will not be easy boats to play. But I believe that the tradeoffs will be worth it. 

 

At the moment it' so rare for me to knife fight other DDs that it barely happens (unless I am in the Z52). It's just very difficult to fight another DD in the open while everything is shooting at you so being able to land more torps might just be a significant edge. 

No, suggesting that absolutely wasn't my intention, it's just that the vulnerability to other DDs due to the lack of torpedoes is a disadvantage, and if the t10 one will have Gearing carbon copy stats it will lose caps to basically anything that's not a shima.

Khabas turn like arse so it's very hard to dodge torpedoes with it, that's why they don't prey on DDs. I know that as soon as I see a PADD and I happen to be in a Khaba, I will kill it, because there's not much he can do with you.

 

Guess we will see pretty soon. For the time being I'll stick with Z-52, it seems a much more interesting ship to play than the new DDs.


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Parallel on topic: does anyone know if planes are able to see DWT?


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Watched Flamu yesterday and today playing them on twitch and they, mostly, seems like very strong ships. Some maybe even too strong. Good guns, very good torps especially T9 and T10 and great (to me the best) smoke in the game with 5 charges (without SI), relatively short duration but quite short cool-down. Definitely better suited to my play-stile then US smoke, which is also great. Radar looks little situational depending of MM but it could be quite strong in divisions with other dds. So far I don't see much to don't like about them. Yes they can't hit DDs with torps but they are not defenseless against them. Maybe they won't attract many players, at first, but all those who can see how strong they could be will try them. Well I'll definitely play them as soon as they get out. But I'm little sad that IJN dds are pushed more and more in the background and that other lines taking they role and make them obsolete. 


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10 minutes ago, Ferry_25 said:

Parallel on topic: does anyone know if planes are able to see DWT?

 

Yes


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5 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Which argues precisely against WG's previous statement of "pls no sealclubbing lol".

Then again why were CVs alt atack were nerfed? if the balacing factor were that CVs were BEEPED with high tir gameplay transfering their 19 points down? Why were Minakaze and isokaze nerfed they scale with high tir captains too? Fact is thease "anti BB DDs" at most tirs run down IJN Torp boats and hit the crap out of them while having VERY close conceilment to them. Thats Balace? Then again that seems to be a reocuing theame with now even some french BBs runing IJN down.......


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9 hours ago, fumtu said:

But I'm little sad that IJN dds are pushed more and more in the background and that other lines taking they role and make them obsolete. 

 

That's right. One solution: Leave IJN-DDs and take Pan-Asia-DDs. You can't change the game but you can change your ships and playstyle when game mechanics change. Low detection DDs with radar gimmick are a huge change.


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1 hour ago, darky_fighter said:

 

That's right. One solution: Leave IJN-DDs and take Pan-Asia-DDs. You can't change the game but you can change your ships and playstyle when game mechanics change. Low detection DDs with radar gimmick are a huge change.

 

It's interesting than WG considered old Minekaze, which had great torps and crappy guns, too strong for T5 but same ship with great torps and far better guns is balanced at T4. Do they think that the fact that Shenyang can't hit enemy dds with torps is really that big issue to compensate for all strengths that this ships have? Except the stealth and one or two of good/decent ships IJN DD line don't have much to offer any more. Other dd lines are much better in doing their role - fighting capital ships. But who knows maybe they get 0.01s faster gun reload and 0.01s faster turret rotation for better balance.   


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13 hours ago, Lord_WC said:

Khabas turn like arse so it's very hard to dodge torpedoes with it, that's why they don't prey on DDs.

I think you're wrong. Khabas don't prey on DDs - but it's not their vulnerability to torps that makes them bad DD hunters. It's the concealment. A DD hunter can live with concealment inferior to her prey, but not THAT inferior. Khaba can easily hunt down a lone DD, torps or not - she's fast, her firepower is scary, firing arcs flat and armor protects from most return fire. But getting into mid-range of enemy BBs and cruisers? And that's what Khaba needs to do EVEN BEFORE SHE MANAGES TO SPOT THE PREY. And that's if she can spot her prey at all - Khaba is lighting fast but she's spotted from so far away that the would-be prey has plenty time to turn away and start running, making Khaba's "hunt" a pointless suicide.

If Khaba can get a jump on isolated, or at least hevily out-of-position enemy DD, she's pretty damn effecting at killing the latter. But that's very situational - and to "prey on DDs" you need much more consistency in being able to force a fight in the first place. THAT is what keeps Khaba from being the bane of other DDs. Vulnerability to torps is but a minor inconvenience.


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1 hour ago, fumtu said:

 

It's interesting than WG considered old Minekaze, which had great torps and crappy guns, too strong for T5 but same ship with great torps and far better guns is balanced at T4. Do they think that the fact that Shenyang can't hit enemy dds with torps is really that big issue to compensate for all strengths that this ships have? Except the stealth and one or two of good/decent ships IJN DD line don't have much to offer any more. Other dd lines are much better in doing their role - fighting capital ships. But who knows maybe they get 0.01s faster gun reload and 0.01s faster turret rotation for better balance.   

 

Shenyang is suppose to have Mk 11 Clemson torpedoes (5.5km range, 56 knots) For some reason they buffed the speed to a staggering 64 knots when the range was extended to 6.4km.

Maybe to make tier 5 Jian Wei easier to play? (From 0.6.14 tier 4-9 comes with the upgraded torpedo of the previous tier as stock and its own torpedo to research)


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18 minutes ago, creamgravy said:

 

Shenyang is suppose to have Mk 11 Clemson torpedoes (5.5km range, 56 knots) For some reason they buffed the speed to a staggering 64 knots when the range was extended to 6.4km.

Maybe to make tier 5 Jian Wei easier to play? (From 0.6.14 tier 4-9 comes with the upgraded torpedo of the previous tier as stock and its own torpedo to research)

 

I don't know why it gets those torps but it's stupid. Whole torpedo progression with lower tiers is weird. From 8,4km/49kn at T2, 7.3km/51km at T3 to 6.4km/64kn then 6.4km/62kn at T5 to 8km/60kn at T6. What is logic here? Shenyang looks really strong, maybe it's just Flamu and Flambass and their expert handling of the ship but so far it looks quite scary. Or "fun" if you prefer playing dds.


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16 hours ago, LDPDC said:

Most of your assumptions/fears are revolving around the difficulty to adapt to these dds on the receiving end (BBs & CA/Cls) and the ease with which good players will abuse them while bad player fare poorly because they will make bad choices. In one word, a challenging but strong DD line.

After one year of constant **** throwing at WG by the community for "catering to the big bad BB players"/"the bottom of the barrel", I cannot help but think that this community would rather still play the very first version of this game than see any change and is capable of remarkable 360° when it comes to opinion as long as they are never in line with WG.

Now, not saying the line will be perfect and there is nothing wrong with it but come on, change is fun in itself!

The problem isnt that its finally something not for BBs. The problem is that they try to fix the BB problem with a new nation instead of tweaking BBs. Panasia do NOT fix BBs, There is no controll over wich side gets one.

They also overun IJN DDs wich they outgun and have near same stealth at nearly any level sinking another nail in the coffin called IJN DD.

They also ilustrate with their smokes that DDs that dont do 42kn plus base can only do damage in open water with having while having a smoke on demand ready all wich are thing other nations DDs do not have.

The only drawback is having DW Torps in a DD vs DD fight but lower tir RU dds with 4 km torps can do fine too dont they?


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19 hours ago, Spellfire40 said:

Nobody outside the US really knows wgats a clemson is and sealcluber play her.....let me ask nobody will play this? dream on. A faster isokaze with  prenerf Trops and nicklas guns......

 

 

 

 

There has been some discussion in this thread about the effect of Deep Water torps on cruisers. Are all cruiser affected? No cruisers at all? Only Heavy Cruisers?

Flamu seems to answer this in the comments to this video.

 

mic450 comments: " Preemptive torps on a Kuma.. but I thought DW Torps wouldn't hit a Kuma :thinking: "

 

Flamu replies: " You thought wrong. "


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2 minutes ago, Admiral_H_Nelson said:

There has been some discussion in this thread about the effect of Deep Water torps on cruisers. Are all cruiser affected? No cruisers at all? Only Heavy Cruisers?

Flamu seems to answer this in the comments to this video.

 

mic450 comments: " Preemptive torps on a Kuma.. but I thought DW Torps wouldn't hit a Kuma :thinking: "

 

Flamu replies: " You thought wrong. "

Acording to what WG comunicated to CCs they hit ALL cruisers. Stuntmen wanted to do a traingroom testing but called it off when he got the info.


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14 minutes ago, Spellfire40 said:

Acording to what WG comunicated to CCs they hit ALL cruisers. Stuntmen wanted to do a traingroom testing but called it off when he got the info.

 
This was confirmed almost two months ago
 

 


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