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Indecents on tier X

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Conqueror is indecent OP

Yamato is indecent crap

 

...in middle Montana and GK

 

Say i'm wrong and i laugh.

 

 

....and WG developers indecents unable to balance ships.

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If the game is a passive one and no one goes towards a cap then yeah Conq will burn everyone...

 

Sadly that is most top tier games. Too many low ability BB players simply do nothing except snipe from 20km and never go near any contested areas whilst the Cruisers and DDs all get nuked.

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Yamato is not crap at all.

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On 11/18/2017 at 6:05 AM, Negativvv said:

If the game is a passive one and no one goes towards a cap then yeah Conq will burn everyone...

 

Sadly that is most top tier games. Too many low ability BB players simply do nothing except snipe from 20km and never go near any contested areas whilst the Cruisers and DDs all get nuked.

Well whenever I go in support of Cruisers in my BB they turn around and bugger off as soon as they get fired at and leave me to get focused. This happens in 90% of the time.

When I have a DD permaspotting me I ask DDs and Cruisers for help and none come. Dewspite being a high Tier BB with firepower, no one is interested in helping. That is why I will always stick with the other BBs for mutual support and not getting left in the lurch.

 

When I play a DD if one of our BBs is permaspotted and I am near by I will go to try and help him and keep the firepower in the game. It's usually not that hard to go and help a team member by spotting enemy DD or providing a smoke screen if possible.

 

I am  more aggressive in Cruisers and DDs because I know that I can not rely on other team members to help and so I might be able to disengage if need be.

 

I rarely play Cvs, but when I do I try to spot for my team as much as I can to help kill enemy DDs and smoke Cruisers.

 

Unless he's in a division a BB driver can not rely on other players to help him out.

 

It's a shame, but most players are not interested in helping other players.

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On 11/18/2017 at 7:05 AM, Negativvv said:

If the game is a passive one and no one goes towards a cap then yeah Conq will burn everyone...

 

Sadly that is most top tier games. Too many low ability BB players simply do nothing except snipe from 20km and never go near any contested areas whilst the Cruisers and DDs all get nuked.

Its not only BB players that suck, DDs and Crusiers do too.

 

DDs rush caps without looking at minimap once or even wait for info on where enemy radar cruisers are.

 

Cruisers sail broadside and dont use terrain for cover.

 

So ofc Cruisers and DDs get nuked and the few halfway competent BB players understand that they cant rely on teammates to survive more than 2 seconds near a contested area.

 

Therefore BBs play passively, because all players are terrible at their class, its just BBs that survive till' the end and therefore gets blamed. Blaming it all on "passive BB" players is not helping anyone.

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On 11/24/2017 at 11:49 PM, veslingr said:

Yamato is godlike ship

Perhaps yours is. Mine I'd like to request a rename to "Rainbow Warrior." Though that might be an insult to the sheer aggression that Greenpeace ship is compared to my Yamato. I've pretty much gave up on that ship. Shooting overpenning/ bouncing/ pen without dam tennis balls all day had me forced to make my Yamato play it's actual RL role: useless and rusting away. I highly like Kurry and Conqueror. Still not convinced the latter is OP. Yes granted: the stealth is ridiculous. No BB should ever outspot a cruiser. But that's it for me. I know: not much ships can withstand being focused down but especially Conqueror can't. Just take 2 or 3 ships and focus it to the bottom. Oh, but that'll take teamwork. Yep. Until the playerbase has figured that out I'll keep burning everybody alive. I think Montana is a boring "meh" ship. Yes it can have awesome moments but the matches in which I'd like to do something more thrilling like watching my toe nails grow are as equal.

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A random battle is just a group of solo players on the same map....

 

If you are in a fast moving ship the best option is just to fire your guns at the start of a match, at some point the other side will take a shot at you and so all their battleships will light up on the map as their detectable range becomes their firing range. When this happens all the BBs on your side open up and the BB battle starts and the DDs and CAs can get on with the game. I think the best/worse I have had so far was 6 players shot at me after doing this - they all missed and all the BBs then had shot their loads for 20s+ and the CAs were tracking me rather than the DDs.

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I really do not agree with OP on this matter.

    The Yamato is hardest to play due to the high and awkward shaped citadel, but its lolpen super accurate guns more than make up for that. Gameplay with it is a bit stale though and can get a bit boring - you usually keep at mid to long range and punish severely enemies who don't pay attention. Bow-tanking capability is high, but should be applied only when close to cover. Crossfire or brawling is what gets it killed, needs team support.

 

    The Montana in its current iteration is extremely tanky when angled, has great turret armor and dominates mid-range encounters. With its exceptional AA, good concealment and relatively accurate guns it can act as a solo warrior if needed but is best suited to kill cruisers who are a threat to DDs or friendly CA/CLs.

 

    The GK is, and always was the ruler of close range encounters - it is useless at long range, but becomes very fearsome up close. Hydro + its brutal secondaries make it great for leading the charge when needed. From all BBs, the GK is best suited for taking offensive actions even when there is no one to support it. Smart use of cover is still important though - as with any other ship it will die fast when focus fired by many enemies.

 

    And we get to the infamous Conqueror. It is simply an annoyance, not a gamechanger for the team and people need to get to understand that. Does it do lots of damage with HE and fires? Yes, but if the enemy allows it. It has the lowest HP pool from T10 BBs and takes by far the most damage. Focusing it will get it killed really fast. With my Conqueror I often see BBs who put a single fire out and keep staying out in the open. Of course I will do my best to set 2-3 fires on such players - it's free damage. And when I light them up again, they start running around like headless chickens...

 

 

Now a bit of (hopefully helpful) advice for playing against all of the BBs:

- Against all BBs you will find one thing to be very effective - creating a crossfire between BB fire and DD torpedoes. In most cases they will not see the torps and will turn bow-on or slightly angled to the BBs, thus getting crippled by the DDs.

- HE spam from CAs or Conqueror may be used as a deterrent - when they face permanent fires with low chance of doing damage in return, most BB players will retreat. Does not work on Conqueror though - its heal is super effective against HE.

- Call focus fire on dangerous targets. If there is a BB that is getting in a good position, you should call for focused attack on it. Especially important vs Conquerors - they will melt quickly instead of setting your team on fire and hiding in stealth.

 

Sadly, there is one thing in common between all those methods - they require at least a bit of team-play and that's a rare thing in random battles. This is why the Conqueror is so strong lately - when it lobs fire and brimstone at one person, the rest of the team is usually not paying attention to it. Play in divisions with different ship classes for each division mate and coordinate your attacks - even under-average players will get decent win ratios this way and will be useful to the team. 

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4 minutes ago, almitov said:

I really do not agree with OP on this matter.

    The Yamato is hardest to play due to the high and awkward shaped citadel, but its lolpen super accurate guns more than make up for that. Gameplay with it is a bit stale though and can get a bit boring - you usually keep at mid to long range and punish severely enemies who don't pay attention. Bow-tanking capability is high, but should be applied only when close to cover. Crossfire or brawling is what gets it killed, needs team support.

 

    The Montana in its current iteration is extremely tanky when angled, has great turret armor and dominates mid-range encounters. With its exceptional AA, good concealment and relatively accurate guns it can act as a solo warrior if needed but is best suited to kill cruisers who are a threat to DDs or friendly CA/CLs.

 

    The GK is, and always was the ruler of close range encounters - it is useless at long range, but becomes very fearsome up close. Hydro + its brutal secondaries make it great for leading the charge when needed. From all BBs, the GK is best suited for taking offensive actions even when there is no one to support it. Smart use of cover is still important though - as with any other ship it will die fast when focus fired by many enemies.

 

    And we get to the infamous Conqueror. It is simply an annoyance, not a gamechanger for the team and people need to get to understand that. Does it do lots of damage with HE and fires? Yes, but if the enemy allows it. It has the lowest HP pool from T10 BBs and takes by far the most damage. Focusing it will get it killed really fast. With my Conqueror I often see BBs who put a single fire out and keep staying out in the open. Of course I will do my best to set 2-3 fires on such players - it's free damage. And when I light them up again, they start running around like headless chickens...

 

 

Now a bit of (hopefully helpful) advice for playing against all of the BBs:

- Against all BBs you will find one thing to be very effective - creating a crossfire between BB fire and DD torpedoes. In most cases they will not see the torps and will turn bow-on or slightly angled to the BBs, thus getting crippled by the DDs.

- HE spam from CAs or Conqueror may be used as a deterrent - when they face permanent fires with low chance of doing damage in return, most BB players will retreat. Does not work on Conqueror though - its heal is super effective against HE.

- Call focus fire on dangerous targets. If there is a BB that is getting in a good position, you should call for focused attack on it. Especially important vs Conquerors - they will melt quickly instead of setting your team on fire and hiding in stealth.

 

Sadly, there is one thing in common between all those methods - they require at least a bit of team-play and that's a rare thing in random battles. This is why the Conqueror is so strong lately - when it lobs fire and brimstone at one person, the rest of the team is usually not paying attention to it. Play in divisions with different ship classes for each division mate and coordinate your attacks - even under-average players will get decent win ratios this way and will be useful to the team. 

agree with all but one point. the Conqueror.

 

The problem is not setting these amount of fires. the problem is that stupidly high HE-Alpha damage.   also, she should got a way more raised citadell as counter to that monster-heal she can do and the imense stealth she has.

 

beside a minimal smaller HP pool as Montana she has [edited]NO downsides!

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Yamato is good as long as the Yamato player doesn't yolo in. What is better than super accurate, high caliber guns? xD

I play Yamato and it one of my ships with the highest winrates, somethign above 60% (generally playing without division)

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yamato's guns are its strength, its weaknesses balance the guns otherwise it would be stupid OP.

 

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Used Yamato in CWs and she worked like a charm. Tried the other BBs but Yamato's ability of overmatching is just insane. I love her and she really teaches you how to angle your BB.

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On 12/29/2017 at 1:29 PM, quattro2109 said:

agree with all but one point. the Conqueror.

 

The problem is not setting these amount of fires. the problem is that stupidly high HE-Alpha damage.   also, she should got a way more raised citadell as counter to that monster-heal she can do and the imense stealth she has.

 

beside a minimal smaller HP pool as Montana she has [edited]NO downsides!

 

I have always found Conquerors fairly easy to kill. The zombie heal makes them nearly immortal to HE spam and fires BUT does not help much against heavy AP damage or torpedoes. Even when angled they still take tons of damage. The key for surviving in one is to use its stealth and avoid taking unnecessary hits.

 

Yes, it does have ridiculous damage output and honestly needs some type of balancing, but it will be really hard to do so. If the HE pen is nerfed, people will likely slap IFHE on. If it is nerfed too much, so that even IFHE would not help - it will become completely useless. AP is unreliable on this ship - you may get the occasional over 20K salvo (even without citadel hits) but you will also very often see your shells splat at a non-angled Yamato's belt at mid range. The short fuse of the AP shells does not really prevent overpens that much but stops the AP from being able to hit underwater citadels - if your shells touch the water, they're gone. Nerfing the fire chance won't really do much difference too as pure HE damage is the main source of its damage potential. 

I would say that the right way (IMO) to balance it would be to lower its HE damage potential (not the penetration). 

 

Overall I would probably repeat myself but the best balance towards a damage-dealer type of ship was, is and always will be to focus it. Kill the most dangerous enemy and laugh at its teammates while pummeling them. Play in divisions and you will start feeling differently about many ships that are otherwise considered to be OP. 

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