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On 16.11.2017 at 7:57 PM, Xinyue said:

Hey guys, don't you think that the GZ test 1 needs immediate buffs?

The ship is SO UNDERPOWER. I just had a game where I was sailing a Tirpitz, and the enemy GZ test 1 decided to bomb me. I was at full hp and started to turn in full speed, trying to dodge the bomb. Guess what happened?

...

 

ALL OF HIS BOMBS WERE BOUNCE!! HE DID 0/ZERO/NULL//ゼロ DMG TO ME!!

AND THOSE BOMBS, AFTER RICOCHETED COMPLETE FROM MY SHIP, FLEW ALL THE WAY BACK TO THE GZ TEST 1 AND ALMOST KILLED HIM!! He was at full hp and after the strike, he has like 2000 hp.

 

I was deeply astonished. This ship is so underpowered.

 

Firstly, we all know that the GZ test 1 is extremely hard to play: You have to left click at least 1 time to use those weak bombers. I can not imagine myself doing this, it is just too hard. You have to first avoid clicking the wrong button (the left button is the right one, and the right button is the wrong one. OMG so fxxking confusing right?), and then you have to click it at least once! To make it worse, sometimes you have to click THREE times if you want to attack multiple targets!!  Shouldn't WG reward those brave and skillful players who dare to play this horrible ship?

 

Secondly, the bombers are too weak. We know that the Tirpitz has very weak armor, and an OP battleship like Yamato, the only T10 BB which has never been built in real life and which has the highest win rate and avg dmg among all other T10 BBs, could one shot a Tirpitz at any angle, at any range. I am not saying that the GZ should be able to do that, but at least she should have some kind of strike power instead of doing 0 dmg. Don’t forget the GZ is very hard to play, while a 3 years old could play the Yamato and get a 160k avg dmg.

 

I just don’t understand why this ship is designed in this way. Just too weak. Whoever plays this ship, will have his game experience completely ruined. But, I still have confidence in WG. This ship has been put into the game for testing for only 1 day, right? The intelligent and efficient WG will for sure immediately notice that the ship is underpowered and then removes it from the game to avoid ruining players’ game experience. They will not leave it there any longer because there is no need to collect any more data considering the fact the ship is just too weak. I just want to kindly suggest to WG that give the GZ a big buff. Thanks.

Yawn the x-0-3 setup is in since the 1st all GZ owners test after Gamescom why do you expect it to work diferent with the same number of strike planes? Given that the output of the 3 strikeplanes is unchanged its VERY likely this is one of the live setups or would you like this bettter?

 

Or from this Testcycle with just 2 TB Squads:

 


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35 minutes ago, Negativvv said:

That's frustration at playing for a play test of an unfinished product...

 

The best I've ever seen a GZ do is when it shredded my Sims with secondaries as I had no idea they were that strong. It almost killed the Chapy behind me too lel

 

Is it really frustration or someone trying to change a work in progress ship in his favour by affecting the stats in a negative way on purpose?  :cap_yes:


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wg bb gameplay in cbt was you had to stick with your cruisers otherwise the enemy cv would wipe your [edited]and hey ho serves ya right for not playing something called teamplay

wg bb gameplay now is hahaha bbs have epic aa so can go where they want and do what they want and now bbs are so overpowered wg has decided to give cvs a small nuclear bomb called ap bombs

 

now do bbs stay with the cruisers for support? nope and no point anymore cos any decent cruiser player picks sonar and not defensive aa and do bbs get wiped of the map errr nope they tend to heal some of the damage then hang even further back trying to snipe at stupid ranges

this game needs to make cruiser more valuable as aa ships and anti dd and less of the bb meta and he spam but wg changing the gameplay so it makes all classes work together is about as likely as me winning lottery and I don't even do it


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5 hours ago, beercrazy said:

ope and no point anymore cos any decent cruiser player picks sonar and not defensive aa

Since when is that then?

I didn't get that letter. I'm probably not decent enough.

 

Serious, wait until you meet a "decent " cv player who notices your cruiser doesn't run defensive, you might rethink. And you'll probably be closer to the frontline than most bbs...

If there would be a reason not to take defensive, it's that carriers are somewhat rare.

Wouldn't make it the best advice, ask that friendly zao who ran hydro for some reason and met an - incredibly bad - leftclicker (aka gz)...


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On 16.11.2017 at 8:09 PM, ForlornSailor said:

 

That would make sense then :D

 

@OP: Ive been thinking about the GZ the last days. Came to the conclusion: WG is going in the right direction with this CV. I like the concept. Able to punish ships out of position with full force, but has problems against a team, that knows how to position.

Btw: why do you think, you should have the ability to one-shot nearly everything on the map, but a CV shouldbt be able to do the same thing to you?

So no-skill requirement is the way to go? All you need to do is left click. Yeah amazing... 


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3 hours ago, PzychoPanzer said:

Since when is that then?

I didn't get that letter. I'm probably not decent enough.

 

Serious, wait until you meet a "decent " cv player who notices your cruiser doesn't run defensive, you might rethink. And you'll probably be closer to the frontline than most bbs...

If there would be a reason not to take defensive, it's that carriers are somewhat rare.

Wouldn't make it the best advice, ask that friendly zao who ran hydro for some reason and met an - incredibly bad - leftclicker (aka gz)...

I can agree that there is hardly any cvs anymore especially in high tier games which in my view says it all about taking sonar instead of def aa

I personally cannot see the point in taking def aa when your chances of using it are low and sonar is more useable in most games but it also depends on how you like to play ie are you a sit back and help defend the bbs or a move forward supporting the dds when your in a cruiser and me personally I am a dd supporter so will try and spot them torps early or try and sonar the crap out of smoke if possible

as for cv in game coming after me in a cruiser yes it happens now and then and most times I dodge the torps unless I am playing like a drunk monkey and don't even spot the planes coming which seems to be most of the time lately and that's probably because I'm getting old


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1 hour ago, ghostbuster_ said:

So no-skill requirement is the way to go? All you need to do is left click. Yeah amazing... 

 

What exactly differs the GZ from other CVs in relation to what im wrote? Or are you taking me out of context...

 

22 minutes ago, beercrazy said:

I can agree that there is hardly any cvs anymore especially in high tier games which in my view says it all about taking sonar instead of def aa

 

I dont know, the recent week, im quite often paired with a CV on T8+.

 

23 minutes ago, beercrazy said:

I personally cannot see the point in taking def aa when your chances of using it are low and sonar is more useable in most games

 

The problem is: Why you need to chose in the first place? It doesnt make sense. I dont know if im going to meet a CV or not - or am I going to meet 5 DDs or only 1. Cruisers need to have Hydro and DefAA at the same time. They are supposed to do both jobs after all.


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completely agree all cruisers should have hydro and def aa from tier 4 upwards as normal standard make up


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To all GZ Test Players: I don't trust you!

 

My second to last match with a GZ player: Here

 

My last match with a GZ player:

 

awgfapo7.jpg

 

This wasn't a CV snipe. This GZ player parked his bombers.

 

And this was his attack:

 

nc2kzhya.jpg

 

Don't tell me that GZ is weak. What is the real reason for this kind of playing?

 

WG, stop this test. There aren't valid data.


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1 hour ago, darky_fighter said:

To all GZ Test Players: I don't trust you!

 

My second to last match with a GZ player: Here

 

My last match with a GZ player:

 

awgfapo7.jpg

 

This wasn't a CV snipe. This GZ player parked his bombers.

 

And this was his attack:

 

nc2kzhya.jpg

 

Don't tell me that GZ is weak. What is the real reason for this kind of playing?

 

WG, stop this test. There aren't valid data.

WG should have stats limited the GZ test, as in for ppl who actually know how to CV.

 

I've never seen so many awful CV players in game before now. GZs are a source of Clear Sky medals... 

 

That's not even counting the ones who blatantly throw games.


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On 11/18/2017 at 1:56 AM, beercrazy said:

wg bb gameplay in cbt was you had to stick with your cruisers otherwise the enemy cv would wipe your [edited]and hey ho serves ya right for not playing something called teamplay

wg bb gameplay now is hahaha bbs have epic aa so can go where they want and do what they want and now bbs are so overpowered wg has decided to give cvs a small nuclear bomb called ap bombs

 

now do bbs stay with the cruisers for support? nope and no point anymore cos any decent cruiser player picks sonar and not defensive aa and do bbs get wiped of the map errr nope they tend to heal some of the damage then hang even further back trying to snipe at stupid ranges

this game needs to make cruiser more valuable as aa ships and anti dd and less of the bb meta and he spam but wg changing the gameplay so it makes all classes work together is about as likely as me winning lottery and I don't even do it

No. 

What balancing like that will cause, is that slow BB, who can not keep up with cruisers, will be deleted early. GZ will see tier.6. And with GZ set-up it is mutch easyer do dispose low-tier BB s, than any other CV. From tier.6-7, only Colorado can give it mild troubles.

 

Secondly, it will cause ships do lemming train up. Taking out any varability. Oh, I am on map X, lets just all "blob" up. Oh now I am on map Y, I know, lets just all train up.

 

This in returne, will cause extremly pontless gameplay. Two "blobs" of opposing teams meeting and excancing fire at long range. BBs can not vanguard, because in order do support BBs against GZ cruisers have do follow BB to suicaidal range they actually have to be ahade of BB. And with-out AA you can not push. Yes, being attacked by CV while pushing is always a problem, but GZ IS just ridicilous.Yes, CV should be able do damage unsupported BB heavily. But with GZ support has do be in front If the supported, what is kind of suicaidal for cruisers. Only way do achive it is by camping.

 

2 minutes ago, Negativvv said:

WG should have stats limited the GZ test, as in for ppl who actually know how to CV.

Mostly what we see is not people not knowing how do CV. It has much more to do with players deliberately throwing matches, so ship they are testing would appare weaker.

 


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38 minutes ago, Negativvv said:

WG should have stats limited the GZ test, as in for ppl who actually know how to CV.

 

I've never seen so many awful CV players in game before now. GZs are a source of Clear Sky medals... 

 

That's not even counting the ones who blatantly throw games.

 

While I understand the point I don't agree. WG has the stats of the "testers" so is easily able to measure the uptake/perception within different groups (unicorns, goods, average joes, bad players. Absolute bad players). This gives a very interesting picture that goes well beyond testing some plane loadout ideas. 

 

This pseudo-elitism in the community isn't the way to bring CVs into a somewhat bearable state but rather an expression of some few individuals trying to conserve their edge of others.

 

The current CV implementation is just bad and centuries behind what Battlestations could muster a decade ago. 

 

WG has the opportunity to collect some unique data right now and I hope they draw some reasonable conclusions out of it. With regards to "a bad CV player ruined my game" - guys take a chill pill! I don't know how many hundred of my game got ruined by absolute idiots in battleships hugging the border and ending up alone and full health toward the end of the match. Yes in an online (team?) game there can be frustrating moments but the GZ test phase is at least something valuable.


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32 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

...but the GZ test phase is at least something valuable.

 

I highly doubt it. I guess this is a good point:

 

50 minutes ago, mariouus said:

Mostly what we see is not people not knowing how do CV. It has much more to do with players deliberately throwing matches, so ship they are testing would appare weaker.

 

We all know that WG won't nerf premium ships. If GZ testers throw matches in the test phase away (which don't influence their personal stats) then they give WG wrong test data on purpose and WG can't nerf the GZ after release when WG see the true strength.

 

I play WoWs for over 2 years. I have seen a lot of matches. I have seen a lot of premium CV players (Kaga, Saipan, Enterprise) but I have never seen such a bunch of stupid CV premium players like now. This is no coincidence. I am a main DD player so my attention is on the CV players in every match. There is a huge difference between Kaga-Saipan-Enterprise and GZ players but there is no reason for this difference.

 

WG, be careful. Don't trust your GZ "testers". They are biased.


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2 minutes ago, darky_fighter said:

 

I highly doubt it. I guess this is a good point:

 

 

We all know that WG won't nerf premium ships. If you throw matches in the test phase away (which don't influence your personal stats)... 

 

Well as I said - WG knows the stats associated with the test results and feedbacks so understands how average players experience the ship and CVs in general. And then they can decide if they balance the ship for a small top player group or more towards the average player or something totally different. The tester base is uniquely diverse and large and allows intriguing insights. Like it or not.


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If the GZ was so good before its release, why did WG even nerf it to begin with?


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15 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

 

Well as I said - WG knows the stats associated with the test results and feedbacks so understands how average players experience the ship and CVs in general. And then they can decide if they balance the ship for a small top player group or more towards the average player or something totally different. The tester base is uniquely diverse and large and allows intriguing insights. Like it or not.

But when players delibaratly play baddly, then WG Will not get right info. While sometimes fraud is easily tracable. If player drives into secondary gun duel for example.

 

But when player delibaratly looses planes, but otherwise playes normal.Then it is very hard do trace. For example, other day saw GZ planes circled his target for extended time, only after loosing a lot of planes it attacked. On statistic, he did not play baddly, did damage, but lost lot of planes. In reality he wanted do loose planes.


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7 minutes ago, NothingButTheRain said:

If the GZ was so good before its release, why did WG even nerf it to begin with?

because wg has no idea what its doing with cvs


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8 minutes ago, mariouus said:

But when player delibaratly looses planes, but otherwise playes normal.Then it is very hard do trace. For example, other day saw GZ planes circled his target for extended time, only after loosing a lot of planes it attacked. On statistic, he did not play baddly, did damage, but lost lot of planes. In reality he wanted do loose planes.

 

This is a good example. You can't see such things in the data. You can only see it in the matches. This is a huge problem for WG.


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9 minutes ago, mariouus said:

But when players delibaratly play baddly, then WG Will not get right info. While sometimes fraud is easily tracable. If player drives into secondary gun duel for example.

 

But when player delibaratly looses planes, but otherwise playes normal.Then it is very hard do trace. For example, other day saw GZ planes circled his target for extended time, only after loosing a lot of planes it attacked. On statistic, he did not play baddly, did damage, but lost lot of planes. In reality he wanted do loose planes.

 

Well yes this is bad data for sure. I haven't seen it and can't say how often it happens but I am challenging if this kind of behaviour is really invalidating the over data base which is exceptionally large for a test ship.


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57 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

 

While I understand the point I don't agree. WG has the stats of the "testers" so is easily able to measure the uptake/perception within different groups (unicorns, goods, average joes, bad players. Absolute bad players). This gives a very interesting picture that goes well beyond testing some plane loadout ideas. 

 

This pseudo-elitism in the community isn't the way to bring CVs into a somewhat bearable state but rather an expression of some few individuals trying to conserve their edge of others.

 

The current CV implementation is just bad and centuries behind what Battlestations could muster a decade ago. 

 

WG has the opportunity to collect some unique data right now and I hope they draw some reasonable conclusions out of it. With regards to "a bad CV player ruined my game" - guys take a chill pill! I don't know how many hundred of my game got ruined by absolute idiots in battleships hugging the border and ending up alone and full health toward the end of the match. Yes in an online (team?) game there can be frustrating moments but the GZ test phase is at least something valuable.

 Well I want more people to CV in a sensible format. I'm not a bad CV player but most games are a stomp either way as the skill disparity is massive. You can beat 75% of what's out there easily then get farmed by a top player and be powerless to do anything. 

 

The USN CV deck rework potentially power creeps GZ as their 1/1/2 decks are pretty good at killing BBs.


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1 hour ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

 

Well yes this is bad data for sure. I haven't seen it and can't say how often it happens but I am challenging if this kind of behaviour is really invalidating the over data base which is exceptionally large for a test ship.

Hard to say.I have seen strong performance from GZ. But I would say, I have see higher percentage of questionable gameplay.


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2 hours ago, darky_fighter said:

We all know that WG won't nerf premium ships. If GZ testers throw matches in the test phase away (which don't influence their personal stats) then they give WG wrong test data on purpose and WG can't nerf the GZ after release when WG see the true strength.

 

This... would be incredible effed-up... but it makes perfect sense. I can confirm a GZ Test flying each and every squad straight into a Minotaur, untill he was deplaned (much like seen on the screens earlier) aswell as a GZ Test going in to brawl from the spawn...


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