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Butterdoll

cvs, quite frustrating little things

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I don't know, I'm pass the rant and face palm thing and the reports. Just want to share, to take this out of my chest

 

I know, random teams, bad players or simply  being occupied doing  their little thing. but came on, wake up.

I'm even not talking about the red cv, I'm talking about the green cv. I'm not asking for a unicorn player,  can be anyone.

I'm a cruiser guy and personally I usually ignore the red cv unless the guy is in front of me. i don't go after him.

yesterday I made a marathon, I made 30k points and I manage to get 2 parking slots. tired from work, played a lot last night and the green cvs, came on.

 

Case and point. (two examples of many)

 

Estuary map, standard battle, my team lemming up to the right flank while me and a red October BB went to the other flank (left flank) cyclone coming, from the get go we were harassed by two dds, I request spotting the all time but nothing, spot here, a ping the map several times.

In the attempted of protecting the green bb I deployed everything I had, spotting plane and hydro, the last one I deployed every charge I got, before the cyclone hit and before we reach the red base. Just because the cv didn't send one plane to spot.

We both survived, the dds were destroyed and we contested the cap in the cyclone without hydro. We won.

My own cv, the cv on my team disarmed me and didn't do S H I T   in the left flank for the all battle.

he failed to spot, SPOT, spot. A [edited]single plane, that's it.

 

Fault line map, domination, me and a green Nuremberg manage to contain the red left flank in c (we lost a friendly Graf), we went to cap, in the exit I was ready to harass a red Bayern pressing into b ( the perfect target, with his  back to me shooting the other way), then the stupid red cv was spotted 15/13 km he was just there (I don't like when they don't follow the team moves), now I have to stop what I'm doing to engage him.  Because the red cv didn't go the other way like he should and now I will get focused by him, great.

I request support several times, several times,  but not a single fighter was sent. Not one.

I could see the planes taking off from his deck, then they flew direct over me at low altitude and landed a torpedo in my hull, (didn't manage to do a torpedo beat wth my bud).

I citadel the red cv to death. was very quick.

then I had to return to the fight.

 

Hey cv players, here's my *edit, say hi to the birdy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Jbnn
This post has been edited by the moderation team due to inappropriate remarks.

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Long story short: You expect CVs to be omnipresent beasts who's got to cover with 1 or 2 fighters the whole area of the map while defending their own strike planes, taking care of the enemy fighters, taking care of the enemy strike planes and spotting.

 

I'm sorry but there is a limited amount of influence on the map a carrier player can have and although it may frustrate you lots of times your own inconveniences, looked from the perspective of a CV that has to fulfill all those roles, may not be on top priority in order to have a meaningful impact on the match.

 

It's true that there are plenty of potato CV captains out there, thanks to WGs almost non existant info on how to play a CV, but that doesn't mean that you and your team mates can't do well by doing exactly what you'd do if this were a no CV match.

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7 minutes ago, OVanBruce said:

Long story short: You expect CVs to be omnipresent beasts who's got to cover with 1 or 2 fighters the whole area of the map while defending their own strike planes, taking care of the enemy fighters, taking care of the enemy strike planes and spotting.

 

Its funny if u think about it - his CV must do everything perfect, yet the other CV isnt allowed to do anything. Obviously not even defending himself while beeing spotted? If I understand the last part of his rant correctly.

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[FRDF]
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I suggest you to try play couple of CV matches before shitting everyone that plays that line.

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That's the main reason why I don't play CVs in any mode but Co-Op: players expect you to be the Hand of God, always at the ready to get them out of trouble in no time. They don't realize that CVs in low tiers have limited amounts of squadrons, that spotting means giving up damage or sacrificing planes, that you need fighters to escort your attack squadrons, else a single lousy floatplane fighter can make your TBs panic and spoil a drop.

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[L4GG]
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1 minute ago, OVanBruce said:

Long story short: You expect CVs to be omnipresent beasts who's got to cover with 1 or 2 fighters the whole area of the map while defending their own strike planes, taking care of the enemy fighters, taking care of the enemy strike planes and spotting.

 

 

No, Long story short, I'm expecting cvs (and all the others) to be aware of what's happening in both flanks, that's it.

A cv have how many planes? I only asked for one, one single plane to spot, one not 4 or 5.

My plane only goes so far , the cv plane goes on for unlimited time.

In my second example both cv could be in another battle for them.

My cv completed ignored the right flank, the red cv didn't got situation awareness, if he did, wouldn't be there just outside C.

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1 minute ago, Butterdoll said:

No, Long story short, I'm expecting cvs (and all the others) to be aware of what's happening in both flanks, that's it.

 

Yea, like the BBs glueing themself to the border or the DD that refuses to cap, while we are short on points and time or the Cruiser that rushes fullspeed in the last enemys, while we are 20 points ahead with 1 minute to go? They all have perfect awerness. If everyone would open a thread like this everytime - we would see as many threads as there are games played a day - multiplied by24!

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If CV is striking something and enemy CVs fighters are harassing the strike he might need all the fighters there too to fight off the enemy fighters, so he has zero planes to spot for you.

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From another point of view: If u keep spotting DDs all the time and noone bothers to shoot them, u cant just sit there and spot them all day long. Especially lowtier noone cares when u spot a DD. Ive had that several times.

Ive had a Danae eating a torp at his nose at ~6km WHICH I DID SPOT RIGHT AFTER IT WAS LAUNCHED and yet he didnt manage to evade it. The DD had like <100 HP left because did he bother shooting him the time i was spotting him? ofc not...

 

2 minutes ago, Butterdoll said:

A cv have how many planes? I only asked for one, one single plane to spot, one not 4 or 5.

 

He can only send one squadron not one plane :fish_palm: Lowtier US CVs f.e. have usually 1 Fighter Squadron, 1 Bomber Squadron and 1 Torpedobomber Squadron. So yep, ofc he got the tools to spot both flanks and deal damage...

 

As for the second example: Should he have helped u with AA when the enemy CV was only attacking u? possibly yes, if he had fighter planes. US CVs can have strike deck without fighters.

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12 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

Its funny if u think about it - his CV must do everything perfect, yet the other CV isnt allowed to do anything. Obviously not even defending himself while beeing spotted? If I understand the last part of his rant correctly.

 

11 minutes ago, Naesil said:

I suggest you to try play couple of CV matches before shitting everyone that plays that line.

 

11 minutes ago, Cosseria said:

That's the main reason why I don't play CVs in any mode but Co-Op: players expect you to be the Hand of God, always at the ready to get them out of trouble in no time. They don't realize that CVs in low tiers have limited amounts of squadrons, that spotting means giving up damage or sacrificing planes, that you need fighters to escort your attack squadrons, else a single lousy floatplane fighter can make your TBs panic and spoil a drop.

 

I'm not expecting nothing that isn't reasonable  Forlorn.

 

I'm think to start a cv line, Naesil.

Not the hand of god, spotting it's not Divine work, or even difficult, if your team have presence there, support it, that's it.

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4 minutes ago, Butterdoll said:

 

No, Long story short, I'm expecting cvs (and all the others) to be aware of what's happening in both flanks, that's it.

A cv have how many planes? I only asked for one, one single plane to spot, one not 4 or 5.

My plane only goes so far , the cv plane goes on for unlimited time.

In my second example both cv could be in another battle for them.

My cv completed ignored the right flank, the red cv didn't got situation awareness, if he did, wouldn't be there just outside C.

 

Believe me they are most probably aware but a CV player have more meaningful priorities to attend than using one of his squads to spot.

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7 minutes ago, Butterdoll said:

thank you, I was searching for a thing like this.

 

No problem, have another:

 

6303b3bc2a32253742e7d9e3fef5a6cc.gif

 

On topic, granted there are plenty of potato CVs out there but there are times where a CV player is focusing on something or just unable to help you. I had a match once where I couldn't cover my DDs (a 3 shima division)  due to heavy AA (a DM) so I told them to just bail the cap. They didn't run away far enough or back towards other allied ships with better AA then them and got spotted by the enemy CV and were attacked. None of them died but they blamed me for not giving them air cover when I already warned them minutes earlier I couldn't give them any air cover. I went on to strike ships with lesser AA, helped to spot the enemy DDs including a Gearing. Meanwhile in that same game we had 2 BBs scrubbing the borders and that was the North map so you can imagine how far those 2 BBs were from the action. Yet that DD division didn't once blame them, no "why are you at the border doing jack all".

 

Spotting can be a tricky thing. You'll realize it soon enough when you start one of the CV lines ;)  Its abit more complicated then what you'll expect, one of which is what DFens_666 has said, limited squadrons on US CV lines.

 

 

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While you are several valids point, please remember that every player play for himself first. CVs are no exception.

 

Well, you could have some potato CV which just are doing crap again and again, never spotting (even not knowing what "spotting" mean), suiciding planes on heavy AA platform and such crap. On the other hand, on certain game, while you are certain what's happening on your side is the keypoint of the battle, something bigger is happening on the other side.

Consider too that spotting do not grant that much exp, and we all play for our own progression first... (And certain defeats grant more experience/money for playing just for yourself than certains victory playing/devoting enterly to the team... ! (Which is... stupid, I could only agree on that))

 

Allocating just one squadron to spot for your allies could prevent you to even being able to intervene in cerains conditions, or even could help you to end with no planes at all if you allocat a fighter to this task... (well, extreme exemple, no sane player would dedicate a fighter to only spotting lol)

 

Or extreme case, team being like "me aa me aa me aa me aa (even some playing in DM... Iowa AA spec... or such ship), me spot me spot me spot" while the ennemy carrier playing strictly AS and outplaying you, then you're ending like "I don't care", being reported without being able to do any crap.

 

So, I would prefer to see your game before siding you or CV. Cause, maybe you ended with an infinite shitty carrier player, or maybe you misjudge what's happening. Please just consider that CV is already enough frustrating to play when your team allways call for babysitting while you are quite busy to manage several squadrons at several poins of the maps.

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17 minutes ago, Butterdoll said:

No, Long story short, I'm expecting cvs (and all the others) to be aware of what's happening in both flanks, that's it.

 

Go play CV and report back. I even bought Saipan, cause I wanted to learn. I dont dare to bring her anywhere else than CO-OP. 

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Player with 0 CV games wants to complain about the gameplay of CV's in his team and offer some kind of critique. Imagine how shocked i wasn't to find out he had no games in CV at all. Not even one.

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29 minutes ago, Butterdoll said:

 

I'm think to start a cv line, Naesil.

Not the hand of god, spotting it's not Divine work, or even difficult, if your team have presence there, support it, that's it.

Ok pop quiz then;

 

You have 1 squad of fighters left in the air. They have 3 planes, and 1 "bar" of ammo left. The one bar of ammo wont be enough to kill a full squadron of enemy planes. If they get stuck in a dogfight they'll just get wiped out.

 

You would like to return them to rearm and resupply.

 

A dd on your team wants you to use them to shoot down a float plane thats spotting him

Another DD in a totally different part of the map wants air cover incase enemy planes go for him

A BB that has yolo'd off into a random corner wants air cover too, because reasons.

The 3 ships pushing a cap have been the target of the enemy CV so far, and are likely to get targetted again

A BB on a flank wants you to spot the random destroyer hes chasing

A cruiser wants you to use them to go find the enemy CV 

The BB sat at the back is screaming for air support "just in case"

 

 

Whichever you pick will result in 6-7 people calling you a useless noob r-tard bot player.

What do you do with those fighters?

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34 minutes ago, Butterdoll said:

 

 

 

I'm not expecting nothing that isn't reasonable  Forlorn.

 

I'm think to start a cv line, Naesil.

Not the hand of god, spotting it's not Divine work, or even difficult, if your team have presence there, support it, that's it.

 

Okay...you do know CVs can only deploy squads and not individual fighters right?

 

Because you're basically saying that even a CV built around air superiority (which means negligible damage potential against enemy ships) has to give up at least 50% (best case) or even all (in most cases) fighter cover over most of the team so his fighters can hang around you and spot DDs for you. I'm sure the rest of the team is going to thank the green CV for leaving them exposed to enemy bombers.

 

Put yourself in the CVs position (assuming low-tier balanced loadout); you have 1 squad of fighters. You can either

  • Screen the bulk of your team from air attack and spot destroyers/torps
  • Screen 2 or 3 isolated ships from air attack and spot destroyers/torps
  • Screen your own strike craft

You get to pick 1 and only 1. Would you honestly expose the rest of the team to cover a couple of cruisers that by your own admission could deal with the DD problem themselves?

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A lot of cv-play is prioritizing and managing your attention on top of your planes, ammunition and general map awareness.

Sometimes you may wonder why your cv is pulling his strike back just before helping you out when you need it,

or why the allied fighter squad is not engaging the incoming strike until far too late or why the dd managed to outrun the cvs squad

Chances are your cv is either a potato (let's face it, plenty of those to go around) or he's busy on the other side of the map

and can't spare much attention to avoid loosing lot's of planes and/or dmg and/or map/spotting control  by failing his strike or fighter duel.

As others suggested, go through with your cv-idea. Get yourself a T6 and we'll see if you feel different once you've unlocked the T7.

Or, if you have the replays everyone could judge wether they were obviously potatos or you just missed what they were doing at that time.

 

 

21 minutes ago, nambr9 said:

I even bought Saipan, cause I wanted to learn

May i suggest the Ryujo instead ? It has a okayish reserve so a lost squad does not amount to half your reserves and strafing and manual drops are far less prevalent at T6, making it more beginner-friendly for ppl still getting to grips with those techniques, (on top of not getting matched against all those Saipan+ your choice of Atlanta, Flint, NC, Kidd, Kutu, Belfast, ect. clubbing divisions).

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2 hours ago, RobS80 said:

Player with 0 CV games wants to complain about the gameplay of CV's in his team and offer some kind of critique. Imagine how shocked i wasn't to find out he had no games in CV at all. Not even one.

Why is that relevant?   

 

While a player with limited to no experience in DDs is probably unqualified to instruct me where to position my ship or how to set up my avenues of attack, they can understand the primary roles of a DD, and expect them to perform that action in game without ever having played one.  You don't have to have played a ships to understand is part in the group dynamic.

 

So, my CV complaint.  Any CV that hold all is squads together, then moves them along the rear border, down the side to try and take out the out CV... is under utilizing their potential. 

 

DDs that try the same maneuver are just as bad.

 

I have never played the Bismarck, but I will say that if it sits at max range behind an Island the whole game... sniping... they are under utilizing their ship.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, rnat said:

Sometimes you may wonder why your cv is pulling his strike back just before helping you out...

That never bothers me, because they need to make tactic decisions that in the heat of combat are outside my knowledge.  On the other hand, if I am attacked multiple time by the enemy CV... multiple strikes over +5 minutes... and our team CVs keeps his fighter circling their carrier the entire game... now I might have an issue.

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12 minutes ago, Xevious_Red said:

Ok pop quiz then;

 

You have 1 squad of fighters left in the air. They have 3 planes, and 1 "bar" of ammo left. The one bar of ammo wont be enough to kill a full squadron of enemy planes. If they get stuck in a dogfight they'll just get wiped out.

 

You would like to return them to rearm and resupply.

 

A dd on your team wants you to use them to shoot down a float plane thats spotting him

Another DD in a totally different part of the map wants air cover incase enemy planes go for him

A BB that has yolo'd off into a random corner wants air cover too, because reasons.

The 3 ships pushing a cap have been the target of the enemy CV so far, and are likely to get targetted again

A BB on a flank wants you to spot the random destroyer hes chasing

A cruiser wants you to use them to go find the enemy CV 

The BB sat at the back is screaming for air support "just in case"

 

 

Whichever you pick will result in 6-7 people calling you a useless noob r-tard bot player.

What do you do with those fighters?

 

That rings so true to my ears that I had Vietnam-type flashbacks of such matches...

 

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12 minutes ago, Culiacan_Mexico said:

Why is that relevant?   

 

While a player with limited to no experience in DDs is probably unqualified to instruct me where to position my ship or how to set up my avenues of attack, they can understand the primary roles of a DD, and expect them to perform that action in game without ever having played one.

Because no one but the OP has seen the actual situation to judge it

and it is not obvious from his description as to why the green cv did as what he did.

It's like a bb on the other side of the map complaining as to why you didn't take the cap or torp the enemy bbs when he didn't pay attention to the situation on that side more than once every few minutes.

 

Since  a CVs role is very multi-faceted and he has no experience playing CV himself and was no doubt too busy during the match to watch the cv's every move it is appropriate to reserve judgement until there's a replay or something of that sort.

 

 

8 minutes ago, Culiacan_Mexico said:

That never bothers me, because they need to make tactic decisions that in the heat of combat are outside my knowledge.  On the other hand, if I am attacked multiple time by the enemy CV... multiple strikes over +5 minutes... and our team CVs keeps his fighter circling their carrier the entire game... now I might have an issue.

That is exactly the point most ppl here are trying to make. We don't know which of those examples applies, wether the CV was a total potato or if he was busy all over the place and maybe missed it or simply had no capacity to spare.

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1 hour ago, Butterdoll said:

...I request spotting the all time...

 

...Hey cv players, here's my middle finger,...

Spotting, unfortunately with CV and DDs, is not a skill beginners learn or use.  New players seldom recognize its power to alter the game in a way that enhances their chance for victory. But... I have had lots of game in which CVs on both my team and the opposing one who have done an excellent job at this.  I have watched some videos on this by... I believe...farazelleth.

 

So while your rant might be justified towards that single CV player, it definitely is wrong with rearguards to CV players as a group.

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Legit troll OP.

 

CV aint your babysitter...some ships have AA too but your iq is far too low be able to understand that.

 

 

Rant over.

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