Jump to content
You need to play a total of 50 battles to post in this section.
The_Great_SCH

New players and HIGH TIER PREMIUMS

87 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

Supertester
374 posts
3,393 battles

Hello,

 

I'm not the one to rant on the forums, but yesterday in 2 consecutive games i've encountered every decent random player's nightmare. 

 

1. T7 game, a Mutsu in my team launched torps from behind me, 2 salvos in a few minutes, towards the enemy. The first hit me, and the second killed me as I was not looking at his torps. The person in the Mutsu had 500 games, no T2 silver ship unlocked but a T7 Premium in the port.

 

2. T7 game, an Atlanta was suspiciously out of position in Neighbors, after checking his stats, he had a total of 28 games, and a T7 premium to play in random games. I have asked the person, why doesn't he play lower tears until he learns the mechanics, because he will just get owned and dislike/hate the game. His answer was "Because i like to blow sh*t up" - in an Atlanta out of range of everything...

 

I understand that WG is a business and generates revenue by selling ships, and with the Steam release we will see more and more of these players, who more often than not, are our team-mates.

 

Wouldn't it be possible that WG actually implements a system where, if a person doesn't have at least a T5 silver ship for example, they can only play their payed for premiums in COOP? 

 

So they keep playing the game, and the other part is selling ships. Because something has to be done. And not to mention, that MM is so bad that some games end faster than a WoWs Blitz game. 

  • Cool 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[ONE2]
Players
2,391 posts
14,377 battles

Hhhhehehe! @RethyI Thaats nothiing! You should have seen the "Atagoland"(give cruiser a heal and it totally becomes a battleship right?) plague and the "Tirpizia" torpedo-boat menace(I have torps now so no need to use main guns, just sneak undetected within 6km of the enemy) of the days old. There was a time, when seeing several of either in your own team meant almost certain instant, ignominious defeat. :Smile_facepalm: Luckily that has now changed a bit, but of course the danger still exists. :etc_hide_turtle:

 

I tend to be of the opinion, that premium ships should be "unlocked" for a player very much the same way than regular Silver ships are. Meaning that you could only buy a tier 7 premium, once you have reached that tier in your regular ship tree (and in the corresponding ship class too). That would guarantee some minimum level of competence (granted it is not much, but something at the least).:Smile_Default:

 

BUT

 

That will never happen, would hit the WG Shop's premium ship sales way too hard... :Smile_sceptic: One can dream tho, maybe someday - After I design my very own warships game...:cap_hmm:

 

On the other hand (and this just came to me). WG already has a sh*tload of low tier premiums available. This arrangement would certainly boost their sales.. And so when players progress through the tiers this might actually cause them to buy a larger number of premium ships overall than they would otherwise, since they could not go "straight to the top" immediately. Hmm... :cap_old: I mean, why even bother buying Aurora, when you can have Atago right away?

 

But of course, that would require that WG have  some sort of long term sales development strategy instead of a simple "Grab money now"-mentality... :etc_red_button:

  • Cool 13
  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[DREAD]
Players
453 posts
7,651 battles

I am in the minority in that I prefer my low tier 'antique' ships with character, rather than power. But you cannot, and will not, stop people wanting to pose their way around the map in their very own all powerful Deathstar.

 

As long as WG make money from these ships (and lets face it, that is why they are there) they will. 

 

End of. 

 

Sorry, its just the way the world turns.

  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[NWP]
Players
1,767 posts
12,117 battles

Untill someone then buys a premium, uses that one to generate free xp and what not and rushes a line of ships and in less than 80 games he or she reaches a tier X ship.

 

Also, playing a tier V ship is by no means representative for knowing how to play a tier VIII ship ( looks at myself, I was a huge potato when I reached my Omaha, and that by no means would be representative for Atago or Kutuzov games ).

 

And WG is a business, implementing this will hamper their business model.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Supertester
374 posts
3,393 battles

I didn't say not let them buy. I said, not let them play Random games, only COOP. There is a big difference.

 

Also, how is letting a player to play T7-8 with little to no experience, how do you help that player? How do you defend him from frustration? 

 

And if i want to check stats and discuss with someone i will do it, i didn't call him a mongoloid, i didn't call him names, i asked him why is he doing this to himself ina good helping manner. At least i am not a hypocrite.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[DAVY]
[DAVY]
Beta Tester
1,222 posts
7,217 battles

whats the difference between a new player In a high tier premium ship playing badly and a player with over 1000 games playing bad?

to me I think the problem is not the sale of premium ships to new players its the game not having a better learning curve before your upto tier 5 and 6 ships and playing with the tier 8 and getting yourself killed in first 5 mins

one of the worst things this game has in all honesty is protecting tier 1-4 then when you hit tier 5 its welcome to the big time for all classes because tier 5 and above dd, cv and cruiser play is completely different to bb play at lower tiers

I also notice new players in Tirpitz and other high tier prem bbs do better than them poor souls who bought a high tier cruiser so do we now say lets stop new players buying anything premium ship wise other than bbs?

we all have games where we wish the players on team where better or played more games ect before sailing away in there ships but hey ho its best to just do your thing and quit to another battle once your dead (and I don't mean yolo then quit)

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[BLITZ]
Players
2,070 posts
9,107 battles
2 minutes ago, beercrazy said:

I also notice new players in Tirpitz and other high tier prem bbs do better than them poor souls who bought a high tier cruiser

Maybe that's because battleships are more idiot-proof... :Smile_hiding:

  • Cool 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[ONE2]
Players
2,391 posts
14,377 battles

NoNo, @beercrazy my friend... You misunderstand. I am sure we are all fine having incompetent and idiotic players in the game (after all, according to all evidence such creatures constitute 90% of mankind, as a whole). They have a valuable role to play after all, just as long as they are in the OTHER team that is... :Smile_teethhappy:

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
1,020 posts
5,453 battles
15 minutes ago, puxflacet said:

people shouldnt be able to buy a certain premium ship until they will unlock the tier it is on

 

Pretty much this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
748 posts
11,447 battles
2 hours ago, RethyI said:

2. T7 game, an Atlanta was suspiciously out of position in Neighbors, after checking his stats, he had a total of 28 games, and a T7 premium to play in random games. I have asked the person, why doesn't he play lower tears until he learns the mechanics, because he will just get owned and dislike/hate the game. His answer was "Because i like to blow sh*t up" - in an Atlanta out of range of everything...

 

oh-deer_o_927710.jpg

Thats how you get owned, Atlanta is the best ship ingame but first you need to tame it, its not fast, low HP and armor (Glorious overpens) little range, 4.5km torps, the concealment is meh and the shells are sloooooow. But once you know whats going on and master the secrets of catapulting and DPM the results are impressive. Also after the HP buff to guns and radar its way easier to play. With good positioning you can easily (yeah sure, like playing Atlanta is easy) handle everything, yesterday I handled a Tirpitz and an Amagi who rushed me (1 by 1) some nice footwork around islands and those torps become really dangerous. Plus fires and AP on the side. Survived the battle like:

4198961.jpg

Back to the topic: I totally agree with the premiums ships limited to your maximum silver ship tier in random games. But its a business after all so I dont know how WG could benefit from it. 

  • Cool 1
  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[OCTO]
Players
629 posts
15,141 battles
1 hour ago, ColonelPete said:

If you look up stats during the match and start discussions, you are hurting your team too.

Unless most of your team has already folded such players..... Who are happily cruising at map edge, with full HP.... :Smile_coin:

I had a game yesterday with a guy who has 9 premiums (mostly BBs, T VIII), total of 370 battles and 29 (!!!!) researched ships. His average number of games per ship is about 5 and he has freeEXP all silver lines to T VII. His WR is 40% and he ended in T X battle, with his teammate with similar stats. So, in start you are -2 ....

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Supertester
374 posts
3,393 battles

If a player has 6k games and still doesn't know the basic game mechanics... well... there is not much to say about that. 

 

It is about the new player, who for example buy a T7 premium in a new game (let's say T7 because it has a pretty balanced price).

 

They get into their first battle, get into a T9 game... they just sail around, they don't know their range of torps, how the aiming works, how shell velocity impacts aiming, how AP/HE works, the basics, not talking about map awareness etc. They will probably get killed fast OR they will be useless in the game. How is that enjoyable for them? 

 

The point i want to make with this thread is not to limit who can buy what/when/why, but buy it, let them play in an easier environment (COOP), then they will at least know that randoms are harder and they have to learn to play.

 

This is like you dont have a drivers license, you have 5 mil euros, buy yourself an F1 car and start driving around on the streets. Odds are, you or someone else will get hurt and you won't enjoy driving anymore. But if you practice on a test track you will learn slowly. 

 

3 hours ago, Zen71_sniper said:

Unless you died because of such players..... :Smile_coin:

We actually won that game, it wasn't the issue. I wasn't even toxic or anything, but he was useless in a good ship, without having a clue.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[ONE2]
Players
2,391 posts
14,377 battles
3 minutes ago, RethyI said:

We actually won that game, it wasn't the issue. I wasn't even toxic or anything, but he was useless in a good ship, without having a clue.

Hey! At the least the ship was good, so that counts as 50% right? :cap_like:

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[UNICS]
Players
607 posts
5,801 battles

I personally enjoyed to get a Tirpitz right after installing the game.

 

The so many potatoes at T10 void the dogma of jumping to high tier premiums being evil.

 

Anyone can be decent player with T8 then T9 Missouri without bothering to grind anything, as anyone can stay forever potato.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[DMAS]
Beta Tester
304 posts
2,214 battles

Funny how people complain that you shouldn't be allowed to buy a high tier premium ship when you're a new player.

And yet when WOT was released nobody cared about type 59, same goes for the SIMS during the BETA or Tirpitz and Atago at wows release.

 

But now? No players shouldn't be allowed to do the same...

 

 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[BTS]
Players
1,064 posts
4,867 battles
8 minutes ago, rigawe said:

Funny how people complain that you shouldn't be allowed to buy a high tier premium ship when you're a new player.

And yet when WOT was released nobody cared about type 59, same goes for the SIMS during the BETA or Tirpitz and Atago at wows release.

 

But now? No players shouldn't be allowed to do the same...

 

 

 

I won't go thread necromancing but I seem to recall force 12 levels of sheetstorm when those ships were released.

 

That being said, if you're fine with the most powerful ships losing battles for you because they're played by incompetent newbies, you just have to state it clearly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[DMAS]
Beta Tester
304 posts
2,214 battles
1 minute ago, Cosseria said:

 

I won't go thread necromancing but I seem to recall force 12 levels of sheetstorm when those ships were released.

 

That being said, if you're fine with the most powerful ships losing battles for you because they're played by incompetent newbies, you just have to state it clearly.

Why would I be against that? All of us were able to use this system. But now we should not allow new player to do the same?


When Tirpitz was released, no one had experience with german battleship.

Same goes for lo yang. Granted it's a benson, nobody had experience with DD using hydro.

Same could be said about Warspite, Gremyachi, Dunkerque, Roma...

 

So yeah it suck, but we were able to do the same.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[HABIT]
Beta Tester
1,568 posts
26 minutes ago, rigawe said:

Funny how people complain that you shouldn't be allowed to buy a high tier premium ship when you're a new player.

And yet when WOT was released nobody cared about type 59, same goes for the SIMS during the BETA or Tirpitz and Atago at wows release.

 

But now? No players shouldn't be allowed to do the same...

 

 

 

The problem with comparing the BETA test and the released version of the game is the following: For the Beta tests WG gave players the option to apply (IIRC) for a position as testers. Therefore a lot of the testers were the kind of players with an actual will and motivation to learn something about the game, find problems and their solutions and make things work as good as they could. Not to mention that they brought some WoT experience with them which could be applied to a certain extend. A way smaller portion of the testers were just there to "see stuff blowing up". At least that was my experience.

However, nowadays - after the release - this is not the case for new players. You have everything from ex-WoT player (or even MMO players in general) to people who can barely start their own PC and it feels like the latter predominates.

So all in all the average player back in the beta test was different from what we have today. Were there players like the OP describes them back in the beta test? Sure. But compared to today their numbers were insignificant.

 

And IIRC people complained about the Tirpitz (or rather that new players could just buy her and ruin matches) after her release.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[BTS]
Players
1,064 posts
4,867 battles
Just now, rigawe said:

Why would I be against that? All of us were able to use this system. But now we should not allow new player to do the same?


When Tirpitz was released, no one had experience with german battleship.

Same goes for lo yang. Granted it's a benson, nobody had experience with DD using hydro.

Same could be said about Warspite, Gremyachi, Dunkerque, Roma...

 

So yeah it suck, but we were able to do the same.

 

 

Agreed. I myself shouldn't take part in the debate with my sub 50% WR Atago and Fail Yang. But what's been proposed so far is not a complete ban on high tier premiums for newbies, it's rather the introduction of some sort of minimum requirement before to get access to such ships. Like unlocking a same tier regular ship or better yet X number of battles played in the same kind of ship.

I would like to see this adopted at the very least for carriers. I can work around the mandatory useless Tirpitz in my team, but when the tenderfoot is on a CV things get complicated.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[DMAS]
Beta Tester
304 posts
2,214 battles
1 minute ago, Tungstonid said:

 

The problem with comparing the BETA test and the released version of the game is the following: For the Beta tests WG gave players the option to apply (IIRC) for a position as testers. Therefore a lot of the testers were the kind of players with an actual will and motivation to learn something about the game, find problems and their solutions and make things work as good as they could. Not to mention that they brought some WoT experience with them which could be applied to a certain extend. A way smaller portion of the testers were just there to "see stuff blowing up". At least that was my experience.

However, nowadays - after the release - this is not the case for new players. You have everything from ex-WoT player (or even MMO players in general) to people who can barely start their own PC and it feels like the latter predominates.

So all in all the average player back in the beta test was different from what we have today. Were there players like the OP describes them back in the beta test? Sure. But compared to today their numbers were insignificant.

First round of test were limited to selected applicant. But at the end WG was giving access to beta to streamers as giveaway.

I got my access by winning a contest watching a streamer the guy had something like 10 access to give per week and he wasn't a huge community contributor.

And then WG launched Open BETA, and at that time the only thing you need to join was filling an application form...

 

As for WOT experience goes, yeah it help but only a little. The mecanics of the game are too different.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[STEG]
Alpha Tester, Players, In AlfaTesters
164 posts
5,108 battles

When I was a noob (some might still consider me a noob) I did buy high tier ships like the Atago, the Tirpitz, and the Kutuzov. The experience was not fun. And I did bad in them. I kind of blame Wargaming from not protecting me from myself. To give such power to someone that had no clue is not ok. I did exactly the same i WOT in 2012 when I (new to the game) bought the Löwe and got slaughtered, very funny..

When the Missouri as introduced to the game I did have enough free XP to buy it, but I have not yet. My highest ship currently is tier 8 (I have the Chapayev, Bismarck, New Orleans, Edinburgh, Kagero, and Amagi, and several tier 9 researched that I am saving up to buy). I think it is just fair to limit premiums (both those you purchase for cash, and those free XP ships) to your highest tier, maybe your highest researched tier. This way you will progress through the tiers while learning. And for some it would make them grind faster to get the high tier premium they long for.

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
1,329 posts
3,583 battles

The T5 battleship Texas is available to new players as a free gift through the 'recommend a friend' feature. For the new player, the ship is locked until they play their first T6 random battle in a Silver ship.

My opinion is simply this:

Why can't WG implement something similar for other premiums?

Maybe not necessarily Tier+1 silver ship, as having to play T9 for a T8 premium seems excessive (considering how long it takes to go from T8 to T9), but surely implementing "you must play up to the same tier in the tech tree to unlock this ship" would be pretty simple?

 

6 hours ago, RAHJAILARI said:

(and in the corresponding ship class too).

Personally, as someone who bought an Atago for captain training when he only had a Furutaka in the IJN CA line, I'd consider that a bit too restrictive.

Also, what do you do then when WG releases ships like Duca D'Aosta, Red October and Gallant before the respective tech trees for their nations are available?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×