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TomBombardil

AA mount surviveability

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With the introduction of RN BBs you hear  more and more that the AA mounts die to fast to HE spam. Also from non RN HE spam. 

But if that is a problem!

 

USE THE (freaking) 100% AA mount surviveability UPGRADE!!

 

Yes you heard it here first. THERE IS A UPGRADE!! Not even a skill. Not in the later slots. No in the 1st one. So, ANYONE can have it! No need to train comander or anything.

 

A 100%, yes that's correct 100% survivability boost!

 

My mounts stronger than your puny little he shells! You find the other upgrade more important? Than what are you whining for, If you don't equip it. You obviously don't need it that much.

Dual purpose AA mounts are magical anyway. Can shoot secondaries and AA at the SAME Time!

 

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Do you have it aquiped?

I'm pretty sure AA mounts don't have a HP pool, or dmg counter. They work the same as planes, a rng check. That 100% boost isn't 2 times fewer likely. But more around 10 times.

 

But lets asume your right. that means the RNG needs to be  2× as unlucky for you to hit that EXACT spot and trigger the distroy AA mount 2 times. A whole extra check! How unlucky you have to be to have that happen in a reasonable amount of time! 

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21 minutes ago, TomBombardil said:

Do you have it aquiped?

I'm pretty sure AA mounts don't have a HP pool, or dmg counter. They work the same as planes, a rng check. That 100% boost isn't 2 times fewer likely. But more around 10 times.

 

But lets asume your right. that means the RNG needs to be  2× as unlucky for you to hit that EXACT spot and trigger the distroy AA mount 2 times. A whole extra check! How unlucky you have to be to have that happen in a reasonable amount of time! 

 

A single cruiser HE salvoe will usually destroy several AA guns, BB HE is even worse, so no, you dont need to be unlucky to lose your AA, unless ofc you are one of those guys that camps all game long in the back with his ship and never really participates in the match.

 

Given the fact that you call it unlucky to lose AA mounts, I guess you are one those guys, therefore there is no point in arguing with you.

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22 minutes ago, TomBombardil said:

 

I'm pretty sure AA mounts don't have a HP pool, or dmg counter. 

 

 

 

Ignorance is indeed bliss...

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8 minutes ago, avenger121 said:

A single cruiser HE salvoe will usually destroy several AA guns,

 

You'll usually be lucky to get one with a CA, with a RN BB you can strip off ~ 90% of the AA firepower in a couple of salvos.

 

I think a change or two might be required.

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It has in fact been proven that the AA survivability mod doesn't do anything.

Which is hardly surprising because 0x2 is still 0.

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2 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

It has in fact been proven that the AA survivability mod doesn't do anything.

Which is hardly surprising because 0x2 is still 0.

 

This.

Here is our test

 

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36 minutes ago, TomBombardil said:

Do you have it aquiped?

I'm pretty sure AA mounts don't have a HP pool, or dmg counter. They work the same as planes, a rng check. That 100% boost isn't 2 times fewer likely. But more around 10 times.

 

But lets asume your right. that means the RNG needs to be  2× as unlucky for you to hit that EXACT spot and trigger the distroy AA mount 2 times. A whole extra check! How unlucky you have to be to have that happen in a reasonable amount of time! 

 

Dude, you have NO idea what you are talking about, yet you dare to lecture other people? Ignorance at its best... I suggest, you do your homework, aka test it in trainingroom, and you see how useless it is.

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@ForlornSailor i read your little 1n test. In a training room. That embarrasses the work of Little White Mouse Or the despertion testers. (don't know his name. Collected the data for ichase his despertion video). To call that prove!

 

And even if there is no seqnificant diffrance in a test setup. (go check what that indecates plz). Try to replicate that data in battle. Where you don't have the perfect aim or the change to trow multiple shot in on AIMED AA modules!

 

And you call me ill educate.

But yes I didn't invest my time in testing, since I know what a effort it is and appreciate LWM the more for it.

 

ABOVE THAT I did indeed not educate on the whole AA survivability issue. Because of the same reason no one is using it. IT HAPPENS TO FEW TIMES for it to actually MATTER!

 

The stars have to aline. A bad as ship lose more % AA guns but is bad anyway and there for a target. A good AA ship loses less % AA guns. But has good AA, and no indication about set AA lose. So is still a Undesireable target

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4 minutes ago, TomBombardil said:

Where you don't have the perfect aim or the change to trow multiple shot in on AIMED AA modules!

 

source.gif

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1 hour ago, TomBombardil said:

USE THE (freaking) 100% AA mount surviveability UPGRADE!!

This module double the total HP of an AA mount but since the HP is already extremely low it does not matter if a AA mount has, as example, 200 HP and is doubled to 400 HP when a HE shell from a Cruiser or BB deals 5000 damage to an AA mount. This AA survivability upgrade is literally the most useless upgrade of all possible upgrades you can mount on a ship.

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@El2aZeR I'm talking about the test of forlornsailer, read it he aims at the AA mounts. not from something that war gaming might have published since it was probably in Russian. And I try to keep up with the info. But since it's everywhere and nowhere I can't invest the time/effort.

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@TomBombardil How many more people do you need to tell you, until you will notice, you are making a fool out of yourself? I count already 8 in this thread alone. And at the time, where only a few of the forum regulars are around. But keep going, its amusing...

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We did shoot at around 10km of range... so basicly i could try to aim for them, but u know, dispersion and RNG makes it hard. I didnt sit 1km next to the other ship while shooting it.

The only significant change i saw was against Secondary guns, as i couldnt disable them as easy.

Usually most of the AA guns are at located at the superstructure, u dont have problems hitting that. Some strong AA ships have AA modules at Bow/Stern which are harder to hit, yet the modules which do get hit die as easily as without the module. So the module is just plain crap, will never use it...

 

Quote

And I do agree it is useless. But the buff is available! 

 

How is it a buff then? :cap_hmm:

That would be like the AA range module would never shoot down a plane in the extra range zone :cap_haloween:

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11 minutes ago, TomBombardil said:

I'm talking about the test of forlornsailer, read it he aims at the AA mounts.

 

The very nature of HE shells makes it irrelevant whether or not you actually aim at AA mounts.

If it is news to you, HE shells deal splash damage against modules. Thus you will never need to actively aim at AA mounts to destroy them.

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5 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

We did shoot at around 10km of range... so basicly i could try to aim for them, but u know, dispersion and RNG makes it hard. I didnt sit 1km next to the other ship while shooting it.

The only significant change i saw was against Secondary guns, as i couldnt disable them as easy.

Usually most of the AA guns are at located at the superstructure, u dont have problems hitting that. Some strong AA ships have AA modules at Bow/Stern which are harder to hit, yet the modules which do get hit die as easily as without the module. So the module is just plain crap, will never use it...

You don't have to aim for them. AA mounts get destroyed by HE shells. HE stand for High Explosive - this means, that you only hit a ship section and the shells explode. The bomb fragments hit stuff (modules like torp tubes, A mounts, rudder, stearing) in this section and incapacitates or destroys them or set a fire.

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Just now, ThePurpleSmurf said:

You don't have to aim for them. AA mounts get destroyed by HE shells. HE stand for High Explosive - this means, that you only hit a ship section and the shells explodes. The bomb fragments hit stuff (modules like torp tubes, A mounts, rudder, stearing) in this section and incapacitates or destroys them, well or set a fire.

 

Yes i know, but shooting at the Bow/Stern doesnt seem to hit AA modules at the Superstructure and vice versa (I tried that seperately just against bots). So in general u need to hit the section or close to them that the splash will hit them. Also it seems that small caliber HE needs to actually hit the larger guns in order to destroy them. That would be the only explanation why it took me on the 4th test so long to destroy the last large caliber AA gun.
Ofc as it was a Kongo in the test its "easier" to hit all the AA modules, coz they are located at the Superstructure.

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2 minutes ago, ThePurpleSmurf said:

You don't have to aim for them. AA mounts get destroyed by HE shells. HE stand for High Explosive - this means, that you only hit a ship section and the shells explode. The bomb fragments hit stuff (modules like torp tubes, A mounts, rudder, stearing) in this section and incapacitates or destroys them or set a fire.

 

He knows that, think he was just trying to explain the testsetup to that stubborn dude. But yea, I find it amusing, that he is using an argument like "where you can not aim at an AA-module". 8.146 battles. Did he ever play a Battleship I wonder? How do you even attempt to aim at AA-modules in the first place lol. Maybe I should try to aim at the anker? Possibly it will drop and stop the enemy? :cap_haloween: 

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@ForlornSailor it actually is funny. It litterly is. I make the most well thought calculated post and it will not get noticed. I make a inflaming post to bring under attention that 1, there is a upgrade. 2, it doesn't work (no one uses it). And 3 wargaming information sharing is all over the place if any.

 

And I get crap talked by you, giving the most grade school example of educated. Calling it educated!

It happend once so it must be true. 

And even than I'm will to except your truth and give my opinion about the matter I  regards to that truth. 

 

 

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Nah man, dont turn this one around. Many people in this very thread told you reasonably and very friendly, that you are wrong, the upgrade is useless and explained the meaning of the 100% survibability bonus. You told them they dont know what they are talking about and even made fun of them. Do I need to quote all of what happend? Its still on this page. Is this one enough?

 

1 hour ago, TomBombardil said:

It's like the childrensound book where is waldo?

 

You had the chance to get out of it with your head up high. Admitting you were wrong. You chose a different path. Even after you got shown reasonable evidence. Now deal with it, that people wont take the one person serious who - crap talked first.

 

8 minutes ago, TomBombardil said:

I make the most well thought calculated post

 

Where would that be? I hope you dont mean this one...

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@ForlornSailor and what was the 2nd part of the sentice "I make a well tough post" ?

 

Can I say the same to any one who still say CV are op based on there dmg potential? Or records? Or for that sake average. Where is the effective ship hp%! That they are just wrong does that than work?

 

Or that the whole point of this is that whole buff AA mount survive abbilaty issue is a joke and that there Wrong in that it matters!

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As @ThePurpleSmurf already mentioned, AA mounts have an hp pool of 200 (<=85 mm) and 800 (>85 mm).

Now compare those numbers - even doubled - to damage values of HE shells.

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