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Murro_the_One

KIDD's p2w AA stronger than any other DD ingame

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KIDD:

5.01 km     53.5dps

3.51 km     65.7dps

2.01 km     36.6dps

 

Grozovoi:

5.19 km    50.7dps

3.51 km    82.4dps

3.09 km    16.8dps

 

I am grinding my way to the Grozovoi, to get DD with strongest AA in game to counter those cap plane hoverers who laugh at DDs as they gets ponded while they are spotting them and look.

there is new premium ship which is almost on par with Grozovoi, and it is 2 tiers below (so in reality it is most AA packed DD in game)

FML

this pay2win is getting on my nerves and I'm not saying it like freeloader, i don't have issue to pay for the game but why they do this?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbZw0aSSVy4

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LilJumpa   

Talk to the people complaining about Kidd being too weak.

 

If both of you alter your opinions towards one another then we would be closer to the truth about the ship.

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ParEx   

To be honest: you can skill the Kidd for all AA but ahve to give up loads of other usefull skills for that just to show your Middle finger to the enemy CV every 4th game.

Plus you get one Torplauncher less.

 

Decide yourself which DD is P2W...

I regarding Kidd I would rate the LoYang more powerfull in overall terms

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kfa   

Grozovoi is stronger (and the Fletcher as well) cause they have access to the Tier9 AA module.

 

Game from yesterday, i usually queue up with a full AA Grozovoi, its much stronger than any other DD.

groz1.thumb.jpg.ab1a330c8eef40cf68b1af164866387a.jpg

 

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Takru   

Kidd is a strong ship. The Def AA buff makes it just so much stronger. That buff, I absolutely do not understand.

 

Def AA on a DD to me is primarily a self defense tool. It's there so the DD can operate semi, safely a bit away from friendly AA ships.
It is not there so the DD can create an absolute no fly zone around it, a zone the CV can't see until his planes are being shot at.

 

If WG wanted to make Def AA more attractive, there would've been other ways to do it (i.e. make it last longer or increase range of panic effect for example).

However, either buff to Def AA misses the point why it is not picked as often as Speed Boost and that is the lack of chances to use it, for lack of high tier carriers.

 

So we end up with a buff to a consumable on a handful of ships, that doesn't actually make it more attractive to use it but if it is used, screws the few people who still play CVs over massively. In Flamu's video you see a Taiho's planes being shredded by the AA of that dedicated AA DD, now imagine how quickly this ship will shred the T7 planes of an Enterprise.

 

Instead of buffing the AA on DDs which are very dangerous to run into as a CV already, they should maybe help out those DDs that do not have Def AA to begin with  and thus are much more vulnerable to air attacks / being continuously spotted by planes.

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4 minutes ago, ParEx said:

To be honest: you can skill the Kidd for all AA but ahve to give up loads of other usefull skills for that just to show your Middle finger to the enemy CV every 4th game.

Plus you get one Torplauncher less.

 

Decide yourself which DD is P2W...

you can skill kidd like flamu did so you don't waste anything, aft/bft buffs your guns too so it doesn't go out of window

3 minutes ago, kfa said:

Grozovoi is stronger (and the Fletcher as well) cause they have access to the Tier9 AA module.

 

Game from yesterday, i usually queue up with a full AA Grozovoi, its much stronger than any other DD.

groz1.thumb.jpg.ab1a330c8eef40cf68b1af164866387a.jpg

 

that's right. that why i said "almost"

but you are comparing tier8 premium with tier10

i play my udaloy with AA except ManualAA and after recent DefAA buff i can shoot some planes but before that it was very questionable.

This thing is much stronget on its tier than fletcher or Grozovoi

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kfa   
22 minutes ago, Murro_the_One said:

you can skill kidd like flamu did so you don't waste anything, aft/bft buffs your guns too so it doesn't go out of window

that's right. that why i said "almost"

but you are comparing tier8 premium with tier10

i play my udaloy with AA except ManualAA and after recent DefAA buff i can shoot some planes but before that it was very questionable.

This thing is much stronget on its tier than fletcher or Grozovoi

 

Yes but still, if you want the strongest AA DD in game you still go for the Grozovoi ( and i mean a lot stronger, +25% DPS from the module and the Grozovoi can easily get away with manual AA (instead of concealment) as well cause it has useful guns and workable 10km torps)

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LilJumpa   
27 minutes ago, Murro_the_One said:

you can skill kidd like flamu did so you don't waste anything, aft/bft buffs your guns too so it doesn't go out of window

 

 

So you are willing to dedicate a 19pt captain just for the kidd?

 

Your 19pt US DD captains usually are not fully skilled for AA because AFT is questionable. Your 19pt US cruiser captains usually do not have last stand.

So you either reskill, lose out on your silver ships or don't have the Flamu build.

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T0byJug   
27 minutes ago, Murro_the_One said:

you can skill kidd like flamu did so you don't waste anything, aft/bft buffs your guns too so it doesn't go out of window

that's right. that why i said "almost"

but you are comparing tier8 premium with tier10

i play my udaloy with AA except ManualAA and after recent DefAA buff i can shoot some planes but before that it was very questionable.

This thing is much stronget on its tier than fletcher or Grozovoi

Standing on one point and ignoring the rest.. she is a weak torpedo boat.

 

Also the high gun arch on high tier USN DD and the fact they have a range of 11.5-12KM any way means many USN DD players wont take AFT on them as the difficulty to hit long range targets and that extra detection range make it a questionable skill to take.

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6 minutes ago, LilJumpa said:

 

So you are willing to dedicate a 19pt captain just for the kidd?

 

Your 19pt US DD captains usually are not fully skilled for AA because AFT is questionable. Your 19pt US cruiser captains usually do not have last stand.

So you either reskill, lose out on your silver ships or don't have the Flamu build.

 

1 minute ago, T0byJug said:

Standing on one point and ignoring the rest.. she is a weak torpedo boat.

 

Also the high gun arch on high tier USN DD and the fact they have a range of 11.5-12KM any way means many USN DD players wont take AFT on them as the difficulty to hit long range targets and that extra detection range make it a questionable skill to take.

just looking for flaws and excuses why something would not work

there are players who play USN DDs as gunboats or AA.

questioning AFT for increasing detection radius? usually when you are firing at something, you are spotted anyway so extra % does not make difference

 

the whole point is, that WG introduced premium, which has strongest AA tier2tier if specced for it.

I don't care if the ship is mediocre in other aspects.

i think they are deliberately giving it such stats to make it attractive to certain people who might buy it. If the overall stats are average and only thing which stands out is AA, you might guess what is the selling point....and to end the loop, yes, tere might be people who specc just for that damned AA to make most of the ship.

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LilJumpa   
3 minutes ago, Murro_the_One said:

 

 

just looking for flaws and excuses why something would not work

there are players who play USN DDs as gunboats or AA.

questioning AFT for increasing detection radius? usually when you are firing at something, you are spotted anyway so extra % does not make difference

 

the whole point is, that WG introduced premium, which has strongest AA tier2tier if specced for it.

I don't care if the ship is mediocre in other aspects.

i think they are deliberately giving it such stats to make it attractive to certain people who might buy it. If the overall stats are average and only thing which stands out is AA, you might guess what is the selling point....and to end the loop, yes, tere might be people who specc just for that damned AA to make most of the ship.

 

 

That makes 0 sense to me, sorry.

 

Well then buy it I guess? Or curse it because you are a CV player? (haven't checked, but in that case I would have 0 sympathies anyway)

 

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7 minutes ago, Murro_the_One said:

 

just looking for flaws and excuses why something would not work

there are players who play USN DDs as gunboats or AA.

questioning AFT for increasing detection radius? usually when you are firing at something, you are spotted anyway so extra % does not make difference

 

the whole point is, that WG introduced premium, which has strongest AA tier2tier if specced for it.

I don't care if the ship is mediocre in other aspects.

i think they are deliberately giving it such stats to make it attractive to certain people who might buy it. If the overall stats are average and only thing which stands out is AA, you might guess what is the selling point....and to end the loop, yes, tere might be people who specc just for that damned AA to make most of the ship.

 

No AFT is bad for US DD's because you won't be firing at target over 10k anyway. It's 4 points wasted. 4 points that anyone can spend better on Gearing / Fletcher / Benson.

 

BFT is fine but that doesn't make a big difference because you want to be using DFAA for your damage anyway. Range (from AFT) is more useful if you spec a captain for AA especially. Which most people won't.

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Just now, LilJumpa said:

 

That makes 0 sense to me, sorry.

 

Well then buy it I guess? Or curse it because you are a CV player? (haven't checked, but in that case I would have 0 sympathies anyway)

 

ok, so for you one more time:

it is pay2win for people who might be interested in DDs with strong AA.

What is bad about it? that they pushed it so far to make it attractive that it is strongest AA DD tier2tier

what comes next? next ship OP in some other aspect like detection, or some combination of gimmicks like Belfast, black etc...

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4 minutes ago, Murro_the_One said:

ok, so for you one more time:

it is pay2win for people who might be interested in DDs with strong AA.

What is bad about it? that they pushed it so far to make it attractive that it is strongest AA DD tier2tier

what comes next? next ship OP in some other aspect like detection, or some combination of gimmicks like Belfast, black etc...

 

I don't really understand what the problem is.

 

WG has always released ships strong in one aspect and weaker in the other. Add AA, lose torps. Add radar, lose heal. Add torps, lose hydro. etc. etc.

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LilJumpa   
12 minutes ago, Murro_the_One said:

ok, so for you one more time:

it is pay2win for people who might be interested in DDs with strong AA.

What is bad about it? that they pushed it so far to make it attractive that it is strongest AA DD tier2tier

what comes next? next ship OP in some other aspect like detection, or some combination of gimmicks like Belfast, black etc...

 

it has a Fletcher Hull.

Spec your silver  Fletcher Full AA and you have almost the same values. Only difference is that sane people don't do that for randoms because..... you know Torps and stuff

Kidd.PNG

Fletcher.PNG

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T0byJug   
10 minutes ago, Murro_the_One said:

 

detection radius? usually when you are firing at something, you are spotted anyway so extra % does not make difference

 

the whole point is, that WG introduced premium, which has strongest AA tier2tier if specced for it.

I don't care if the ship is mediocre in other aspects.

 

It makes a significant difference. When you kill said target you stealth up again immediately if no enemy has line of site and is within gun range. Also makes smoke firing a lot harder. Experienced DD commanders at higher tiers don't want to sit IN THERE SMOKE but behind it. then they have more warning if the inevitable Torps. Its hard to hide behind smoke if you are spotted on the flank by a ship at 14km.

 

Prem ships are gimmicky and unique in some way. You cant look at one thing to say its P2W with out taking other factors.

High tier CV are so rare that CV are only in about 1 in 4 games

 

over last 2 months tiers VI to X CVs have made up 2.3% of ships brought to battle. thats 1 in 50 boats. so as there must be a CV on both teams. and 24 ships in a battle. 1 game in 4 has a CV. So more often than not unless you Division up with a CV the Kidd will not see a CV.

She is a very Very week  Torp boat. Yes so are many Russian DDs but you guns on those DD's are much better than USN ones.

Remember her stats will be buffed some what by the fact pretty sure only dedicated USN DD commanders will get her

 

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I would never buy a DD for AA,

Sounds quite useless to me.

White Mouse explained it quite well. The ship is bad for random battles, but very strong for Ranked, Team, Clan Battles where a spotter with high survivability is an asset.

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iJoby   
1 hour ago, Murro_the_One said:

this pay2win is getting on my nerves and I'm not saying it like freeloader, i don't have issue to pay for the game but why they do this?

You say pay to win as if paying is a guaranteed win on every game, by paying for a ship, this will give you a slight advantage over other ships of that tier, although saying that and after watching Flamu and Notser test the ship, the AA does seem a bit OP, no DD should be able to disintegrate planes as easy as the KIdd does, It may be a premium advantage for the ship but totally unfair to CV players, I am surprised ST's did not stipulate strongly about the AA being OP. 

World_of_Warships_Screenshot_2017.11.10_

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The gretest advantage of the Kidd is not its AA (although even a standard USN DD build without AA spec can harm planes), the biggest advantage is the heal when you're knife fighting other DDs.

 

The problem: Once the enemy DDs are down and there's no CV present, the Kidd becomes a pure support ship. A bit spotting here, a bit damage there, a bit team smoking over there. In terms of DMG done she'll probably loose out to the Benson.

 

So yes, while her AA is stronger tier for tier than any other DD, she has drawbacks when carrying a game.

 

 

Greetings

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Getting Grozovoi for AA? How often do you think you will meet CVs at TX? 

Its like 1/10 of the games... 

 

And yeah, the Kidd is giving up enough damage potential to get that AA. 

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T0byJug   
8 minutes ago, _Helmut_Kohl_ said:

Getting Grozovoi for AA? How often do you think you will meet CVs at TX? 

Its like 1/10 of the games... 

 

And yeah, the Kidd is giving up enough damage potential to get that AA. 

tier 6-10 CV make 2.3% of ships brought to battle.. Not quite 1 game in 10 but you are correct its rare

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6 minutes ago, T0byJug said:

tier 6-10 CV make 2.3% of ships brought to battle.. Not quite 1 game in 10 but you are correct its rare

 

So far in 12 Kidd games I had 1 T10 CV and 1 T6 CV (which didn't attack me at all), so yeah, while it's nice to have it doesn't come to use very often. Unlike her heal.

 

 

Greetings

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8 minutes ago, T0byJug said:

tier 6-10 CV make 2.3% of ships brought to battle.. Not quite 1 game in 10 but you are correct its rare

 

And T8+ CVs are much more rare than T6/T7 (which Grozovoi will not meet). 

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Mangrey   
20 minutes ago, _Helmut_Kohl_ said:

Getting Grozovoi for AA? How often do you think you will meet CVs at TX? 

Its like 1/10 of the games... 

 

And yeah, the Kidd is giving up enough damage potential to get that AA. 

the Real qustion is why do you only meet a CV once pr. 10th match :)

 

mang

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21 minutes ago, _Helmut_Kohl_ said:

Getting Grozovoi for AA? How often do you think you will meet CVs at TX? 

Its like 1/10 of the games... 

well, my everburning hate towards the CVs is enough to feed on those once in 10 games, I'm ok with that :)

+during weekends there is increase in BB and CV population

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