Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Butterdoll

De Grasse vs Duca

14 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

[L4GG]
Players
1,550 posts
6,274 battles

Well, as I'm looking to the tech tree, I see that I'm out of options, cruisers wise.

Now I'm looking to the premium ships, and even there, what are the most common it's  bb's.

 So, De Grasse or Duca?

 

I like very much the French line.

The Italian Line is unkowned to me (I know it's coming)

 

Latelly I'm picking more LaGal than the Cleve.

 

it's my understanding for what I saw so far.

De Grasse it's the fastest ship, capable  of breaking the 40 knots mark ( I love that) with LaGal guns ( ok), and trollish armour, can hold it's own, great for defensive play (kitting) and for hunting. A fun ship, right?

But

How much bigger it's when compared to LaGal?

Manoeuvring, how is it? I know it's more sluggish than LaGal, they compared it with a Cleveland but with or without rudder shift (the cleve) ?

 

Duca, it's a fast ship capable of doing around 38 knots, with fast shells, faster than Budyonni's (I love that) great for hunting, slim profile, with low survivability but aggressive play.

But.

while some like the guns (damage wise) others don't. Some says that's gives very low damage, others say you can citadel cruisers at 10kms

Don't have an Italian captain, how do I get a decent one from the get go?

How low is it's survivability?

 

Your input would be very appreciated.

Thank you.

 

 

 

  

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[PKTZS]
Weekend Tester
2,408 posts
14,616 battles
9 hours ago, Butterdoll said:

Duca [...] while some like the guns (damage wise) others don't. Some says that's gives very low damage, others say you can citadel cruisers at 10kms

 

HE ammo without IFHE does very low damage. AP on cruisers is quite good, so both statements are correct.

 

9 hours ago, Butterdoll said:

Don't have an Italian captain, how do I get a decent one from the get go?

 

Sorry. As far as I know, no shortcuts for that. You'll need to grind your way towards the 10-14 points captain or invest a good amount of Elite Captain XP if you have it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
897 posts
7,081 battles

I recommend DeGrasse.

 

Bought the Duca when it came out first - collector, you know ... - and failed so hard with that 3 skill cpt. Stopped playing it after 5 or 6 battles.

Only started playing it again, now that i have a 10 skill cpt from the Cesare.

 

DeGrasse is just solid in every way. Nothing you cant do with it, if you like cruisers. Imo one of the most versatile cruisers at T6. 

Excels at nothing especially, but is good for almost everything.

Maybe not a ship to carry the day, but did not feel misplaced even in ranked.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[L4GG]
Players
1,550 posts
6,274 battles
11 hours ago, JapLance said:

 

HE ammo without IFHE does very low damage. AP on cruisers is quite good, so both statements are correct.

 

 

Sorry. As far as I know, no shortcuts for that. You'll need to grind your way towards the 10-14 points captain or invest a good amount of Elite Captain XP if you have it.

 

 

I don't run ifhe in my ships, only DE so far. IFHE will cripple the capability of making fires  (especially after this last nerf).

and Permanent fires  or delay as long as I can the opponent's damage control party.

If I'm right, don't know yet.

so low damage from fires (ducas has 7% of probability of, very low), and good AP?

 

11 hours ago, The_Pillager said:

I recommend DeGrasse.

 

Bought the Duca when it came out first - collector, you know ... - and failed so hard with that 3 skill cpt. Stopped playing it after 5 or 6 battles.

Only started playing it again, now that i have a 10 skill cpt from the Cesare.

 

DeGrasse is just solid in every way. Nothing you cant do with it, if you like cruisers. Imo one of the most versatile cruisers at T6. 

Excels at nothing especially, but is good for almost everything.

Maybe not a ship to carry the day, but did not feel misplaced even in ranked.

 

yeah, captains skills, somehow every youtuber fails in this field, always 19 point's captain, and not everyone has a 19 point's captain. that can do the difference.

So, you play with a duca v.2

I'm for a long time thinking about De Grasse, but what's be nagging it's Duca's shell speed, perfect for hunting and manoeuvrability.

The rest De Grasse wins.

How De Grasse with the rudder shift module?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
897 posts
7,081 battles

Well, standard in all my cruisers, so cant tell otherwise. Would not outfit a light cruiser with anything else

Its reasonable wiggly if needed. Feels better than the russians. Maybe not as lightfooted as duca.

 

Hardest thing is the camo, as usual. It shows its real strength only with CE. But thats normal at this level i guess.

I choose her over the Duca every day, but its because she was a perfect Trainer for my French cruiser Captain. Its the Martell now and without DeGrasses training, he would be bad, still.

That is the point for me: DeGrasse is a Trainer for an existing line. Duca is still an orphan ... Well, not quite, Cesare is here now. 

 

:Smile_honoring:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[HOME]
Beta Tester
1,818 posts
6,902 battles

Degrasse> Aosta

 

Degrasses much better HE dmg and Firechance beats it out of the water.

 

Both are squishy, but Degrasses speed, range and AA deals better with that weakness.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
2,380 posts
15,503 battles

Aosta = Balanced as a 'roaming' tactical cruiser, very similar to Aoba in game style. (Harder to play with a low point captain)

De Grasse = Balanced as a long range HE spammer, very similar to Budyonny or Le Gasoline. (Easier to play with a low point captain)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[TTT]
Players
406 posts
9,075 battles

The efficiency of the De Grasse exponentially increases with high skill captain, as IFHE and concealment are mandatory.

 

I would say 14pts makes the difference between zero and hero.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SCRUB]
Supertester
3,200 posts
3,240 battles

I'm playing de Grasse so far, and one thing is for sure: with a 10 point cpt (IFHE), she's hard work to do well in, but she works. If you make a misstep, you'll get messed up very hard. CE is a must, because you are one of the first cruisers to be spotted. Armour is decent in French cruiser terms, but it's still a French cruiser. Rudder seems to be a bit slow and the turning speed isn't that super either, but you can troll people with the spood beest (and the flag). If you need to get out of trouble, you can hit the boost and throw your rudder around, people are gonna be missing you before you disappear. Your turret speed is freaking awesome, but the angles are somewhat limited. You can bowtank other 6" cruisers, pretty sure you can'T bowtank 8" and above guns.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
1,979 posts
2,159 battles

The De Grasse vs. the Duca D'Aosta?

 

Let me phrase it like this: I had fun in the De Grasse from the very first game I played in her.

                                         I have yet to do even moderately well in the Duca D'Aosta, as I have been soundly thrashed every single time I've taken her out.

 

This doesn't mean the Duca D'Aosta is impossible to do well in; far from it. I have seen people carry battles in this very beautiful little Italian hunter-killer, and her nifty combination of both hydro and defensive AA consumables should not be underrated. But I think that she needs either at least a 14-point captain, or a very skilled cruiser player indeed, to dominate an engagement. Her main weakness would seem to be the pitifully inadequate guns, with the HE shells being especially underperforming. I am thinking that with both IFHE and CE skills, she might just be a different ship, but I am still a long way from getting there myself.

 

The De Grasse knows no such problems. Her only real weakness as a cruiser, as I see it, is her somewhat large detection radius. With the CE skill invested, this will be less of a problem. I do not believe she really needs the IFHE skill to shine, although she will certainly profit a great deal from having it. Her paper armour and her predilection for eating citadel hits is nothing to write home about, since this makes her no different from most other cruisers at that tier. She is especially efficient in Operations, where the power and range of her main armament makes her a truly formidable warrior.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[BYOB]
Players
3,074 posts
11,057 battles

I do not own the d'Aosta, but I own the De Grasse. I must say that I really like it, especially since it is an improved La Galissonniere (the main reason why I bought it).

But even so, you need to like the play style of the FR cruisers to really like the ship.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[H_FAN]
Players
1,943 posts
22,558 battles

The problem with a high end captain exists for all ships, I am realizing as a veteran player how hard it was early in the career to play against high end captains but it is necessary to accept a hard beginning or pay for it. Same is true when you enetr any new silvership at least above T7 I try to start with 10 points, grind them beforehand with Premiums or elite XP. Some ships are harder than others, Duca is harder than DeGrasse IMO as DeGrasse have fairly good range and is very much in line for the French cruisers on mid/higher tiers, HE spamming from distance where the CE is less of an issue. I agree with you that Duca will be useful in the future and you have an Abruzzi at T7 coming, it seems that most new premiums in the top edition (and returning campaign ships like Indianapolis atm) come s with better captains to give you a start. But that is not an option in the tech tree. 

You can use FreeXP also I think but that is quite expensive, even if a 10p may be possible in a 35:1 sale it is still 5000 doubloons or so. If you buying both Duca and Abruzzi when it comes you may be able to get a high end captain then if it is Duca you want. Do not know your money issues. 

 

For now I may settle for the French cruiser (I have both) if I were you as this cruiser line exists today but French cruisers are kiting and rather onedimensionalships that you can perform rather okayin with ease but it is difficult to feel that you have a large impact on the game unless you put up very high damagenumbers which you will , I have had a witherer even in LaGal so it is possible but the damage stacks up over time, you can not kill fast and you are unsuitable for DD hunting and cap contesting at the beginning at higher tiers compared to some other lines with better hydro or radar or railguns.

 

I think DeGrasse is an Okay ship but will never be an exciting ship, she is a good trainer and useful even uptiered her range makes her usable, Duca you either like or dislike, for me I and Duca have not been a good partnership, compared with other cruisers but I can not really understand why.  Her range is painful at T8. Lack of HE performance is a difficult thing.

  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SINT]
Players
291 posts
13,496 battles

I have the Duca, reason was "first italian". But as stated before playing it without a good captain was a drag. Spamming HE from range is not rewarding at all since you are relying on your team to win while you do chipping damage from far away.. With both CE and IFHE you start to count. You can go with your dd's to escort them into the fight with the red dd's. Still you dont want to be within 10 KM of enemy BB's. Sure you can dodge and hope they will underestimate you speed but you are as fragile as any CL in tier VI. But with less DPM..And youre firestarting chance is also meh.. Your best contribution to the team is killing DD's and dodging BB shells that otherwise would have been fired towards your teammembers.. In hindsight i used a lot (too many) of my Dragon flags to power rush my captain to 14 points...and now the ship sits in my harbor with that 14th point captain doing not that much because the limited play style, I have my reservation regarding the Abruzzi, will probably pass.

 

De Grasse i just skipped, main reason was that i disliked the French cruisers and just want one French cruiser/ one captain in my harbor.What also put me against buying the De Grasse was that WG nerfed the la Gal just to buff De Grasse sales. Currently quite happy with my Charles Martell (and i will stop at tier 8, so its my final) but since its a CA the captain skill dont really match with the De Grasse (being a light cruiser, requiring ifhe which i will not need on the CM).  I use premiums as captain trainers and am very conservative picking premiums that require a dedicated captain. Same reason f.e. i never picked the Belfast.

 

(Yes i Know that the Duca (and the Gulio Cesare)requires a dedicated captain as well but that's more because there is no Italian main line yet).

 

On a positive side, even when you were asking for a cruiser, i can warmly recommend the Guilio Cesare being much more fun to play then all current Italian and french premiums (i also own the Dunk)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[BLOBS]
Beta Tester
5,072 posts
9,812 battles

Do a stat comparoson on were it matters

 

                             De Gasse         Duca          

Ramge:                    16.2               14.0

AP/He damage    3200/2200     3200/2100

Fire chance              9%                  8%  

Reload                      8.1 sek          7,9 sek

Speed:                      33.5 kn           36..5 kn

Hp                           31200            29700  

Stealth                      12.9                0.3

 

Duka has area denyal Torps De gasse has workable Torp range with more traditinal Torps both work as offensiv Torps.

Duca has sonar and Def fire, De Gasse has to chose.

Duca is at time relyant on its Spoter to get shots out

De Gasse is at heart a long range suport vessel while

Duca is more at home at closer range since due to high starting gun velocity but quite bad airdrag on her shells.

 

The real problem is how the styles are rewarded. Close range ships usally die faster and with 9 guns Duca is rather low dpm add to that her lower HE damage.

Duca has the stealth and speed to suport DDs at sure hit range if she can survive the focus fire that usally comes to a cruiser close to the frontline she can do decent.

De gasse can relocate quickly due to speedboost and with its playstyle will probably more consistant especally when uptirded.

 

Personally im not to found with Ducas relyance on a Spoter at times especally when she not even has high dpm when she is in range. for ecample if a mid 20kn BB angle away you need to be at apox 12km to hit this in turn is neear sure hit teritory for BBs Her agility compensates a bit for that but you can deny rng only so much before a devastating salvo comes in while De gasse by being further away might not being a target in the 1st place.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×