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chaosrealm93

blyskawica; buy or no buy

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hey all,

 

is it still worth buying?  AFAIK, there was some patch that happened in the past that effectively nerfed it and the community was upset.

but i hear its going to get removed like the kutozov...........

 

so should i get on the train before it leaves for good?

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Why would it be removed? It is balanced now, without SF. WG said the same. Where did you read that? 

 

I would rather get the Leningrad. 

Blys has more alpha damage and better gun handling. But it is not really needed for random play.

Leningrad has much better acceleration, higher top speed, better torpedoes and it can train useful russian captains. 

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26 minutes ago, chaosrealm93 said:

but i hear its going to get removed like the kutozov

 

Source? Removing the Blys would make no sense at all.

The ship is good if you are willing to grind a 10p captain.

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Blys is fine, I've been using her a long time. Maybe Lenin has power crept her slightly but if you're good with DDs then Blys does the job.

 

I'm at 16 points with her, maybe I'll hit 19 one day...

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Błyskawica is a nice little ship, but she has three big problems:

1. She needs a dedicated captain. She is a standalone ship in Polish "tree" so there is no other ship, silver or otherwise, that could share a captain with her - or even take (after re-training) a captain initially meant just for her. There will also never be a Polish tree, since even if you include various older ships and rentals, there would be nothing to put on top tiers, really. In the end Poland might get a premium DD or two but it probably won't be anytime soon (or even soonTM) either. So you're grinding a captain or investing elite XP to play this one ship only.

2. Błyskawica is a t7 DD. And t7 is, generally speaking, a very bad place for DDs, because while at this tier you have decent chances of being top tier, you're only one tier from t8 where Concealment Module makes an appearance. Błyskawica at t7 has poor concealment, but something she can work with. When she meets t8 DDs with concealment module, however, things get nasty...

3. Lenningrad exists. And she is a straight-up better ship. Błyskawica's strong points are:

 - her speed; Lenningrad is significantly faster

 - her guns; Lenningrad's are no worse than hers

 - having workable torps on top of good guns; Lenningrad has better torps

They also share the same weakness (bad concealment), but - again - Lenningrad is better in that aspect.

 

Basically, Błyskawica is a nice ship, if Lenningrad wasn't a thing, she would certainly be worth buying (assuming you could adjust to her playstyle and were willing to invest in her captain a bit), but I struggle to see an argument for getting her instead of Lenningrad - a ship that is very much like her, just better.

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26 minutes ago, eliastion said:

3. Lenningrad exists. And she is a straight-up better ship. Błyskawica's strong points are:

 - her speed; Lenningrad is significantly faster

 - her guns; Lenningrad's are no worse than hers

 - having workable torps on top of good guns; Lenningrad has better torps

They also share the same weakness (bad concealment), but - again - Lenningrad is better in that aspect.

 

That is not exactly true. 

Many people greatly underestimate the advantage of a higher alpha damage. It gives you time to kite/angle and it makes it easier to hit and run. Blys even has more RoF overall, so it gives up nothing. 

Also gun handling/angles are better. 

 

In a 1v1 or in Ranked, I would rather play the Blys.

But Leningrad offers a better package for Random Battles. 

Haven't played either in forever though... 

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got her at half price but so much fun.

10 pt captain now ... just a shame you cant use her as a trainer

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To be honost I didn't play this ship for ages. So I wouldn't know OP. I never considered it a very good ship. And before you start: Blys is for me "one of those ships" which people find awesome but I don't. A personal opinion.

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47 minutes ago, eliastion said:

Błyskawica is a nice little ship, but she has three big problems:

1. She needs a dedicated captain.[...]

2. Błyskawica is a t7 DD [ .....] things get nasty...

3. Lenningrad exists. And she is a straight-up better ship. Błyskawica's strong points are:

 - her speed; Lenningrad is significantly faster

 - her guns; Lenningrad's are no worse than hers

 - having workable torps on top of good guns; Lenningrad has better torps

They also share the same weakness (bad concealment), but - again - Lenningrad is better in that aspect.

 

 Those are the common concerns.

1) is indeed true

2) Blys isnt really a capping boat, so the concealment problem isnt that big of a deal if you play her to her strengths.

3) False; The two are very evenly matched overall, but they prey on very different enemies.

- Leningrad is good for the Khaba style of gameplay dodging heavy shells, but in a dd vs dd fight it gets shot to pieces by the Blys.

- Blys is built for kiting and killing dds and is the best T7 dd at that. It relies on smoke to fight heavier ships these days.

 

Before the stealthfire nerf,  Blys was by far superior to Leningrad since it was also better at burning BBs and CAs from comlete immunity (Back then it burned down full hp BBs without them ever seeing or hitting it once).

 

 

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Wait and see what T-61 is like when it comes out, at the moment it's looking like it'll be Belfast levels of OP.

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She is still great.

 

But you cannot train captains with her and other premiums are better at making money.

 

If you are collector and like gunboats, you should buy her.

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42 minutes ago, Capra76 said:

Wait and see what T-61 is like when it comes out, at the moment it's looking like it'll be Belfast levels of OP.

Not even remotely close to Belfast levels. Yes, the T-61 has very good torps at this tier and hydro is great, but that's almost about it. The guns are average, you only have 4 of them and the turret traverse is abysmal which means you can not get into gunfights with other KM, US, RU DDs or Blys if uptiered. In the current state the torps seem to be a bit too strong, so *if* WG nerf them before release you have a bit better Gaede. This ship is okay, but it is FAR from being op and even further away from Belfast level.

I think you watched Flamu's first impression video and think you'll get a op seal clubber that hardly require any effort. The truth is A) Flamu is exceptionally good and can make almost any ship work and B) KM DDs are pretty difficult to play because of the usually slower speed, worse detection, size, sluggish handling, tendency to eat extra damage, especially AP from all enemy ship classes.

 

Don't get me wrong, the T-61 is one of the few premiums i'm interested in and most likely will buy it too, because i expect it to be good. But it won't be op and it'll most likely require a unicum+ level player to have constantly good results - unlike the Belfast or Kutuzov, that any drunk chimp can pull decent numbers with.

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I would be reluctant to buying a ship that can't train captains, mainly because i can't afford to buy premiums for every line so i feel like buying the blyska would be kind of a waste of money for me...

 

But maybe you are in a different situation or maybe you just don't care about captain training as much as i do... whatever the case is, i'm pretty sure the blyska is still a good ship (or so i have heard... can't really say much myself since i don't own it).

 

Maybe this video helps?

 

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21 minutes ago, ThePurpleSmurf said:

Not even remotely close to Belfast levels. Yes, the T-61 has very good torps at this tier and hydro is great, but that's almost about it.

 

Really?

 

 

21 minutes ago, ThePurpleSmurf said:

The guns are average, you only have 4 of them and the turret traverse is abysmal which means you can not get into gunfights with other KM, US, RU DDs or Blys if uptiered.

 

+20,000 HE DPM and +39,600 AP DPM compared to EG.

 

The 22.5 second traverse is the same as all KM DD up to T9 and is better than anything she can face non-US except Kiev, Gallant & Blys and even then you're talking about 4 seconds.  It's not great but it's not bad compared to RU/IJN.

 

 

29 minutes ago, ThePurpleSmurf said:

has very good torps at this tier

 

It has the same torps as EG, which are decent for T6, but it has a 22 second quicker reload and most importantly it has the stealth and agility to use them effectively.

 

 

 

31 minutes ago, ThePurpleSmurf said:

KM DDs are pretty difficult to play because of......worse detection,

 

600 m better than EG

 

 

33 minutes ago, ThePurpleSmurf said:

sluggish handling

 

0.4 seconds off the EG rudder and 90 m off the turning circle.

 

 

35 minutes ago, ThePurpleSmurf said:

slower speed, size, , tendency to eat extra damage, especially AP from all enemy ship classes.

 

It loses 1 knot speed, I don't know about the size but the improved detection and handling should reduce the amount of damage it takes and I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up smaller and less prone to AP pens as well.

 

 

It's basically EG with far more firepower, better handling, better stealth and in return it gives up 1 knot in speed and 1,800 HP.

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15 minutes ago, Capra76 said:

 

… snip …

Congratulations, so the T-61 is better than Gaede, surprise surprise. Nobody every declined this. But where is this even remotely close to the op levels of the Belfast? THIS is what you claimed. Gaede is a good ship, but it still get its [edited]kicked by an somewhat skilled enemy DD captain. I wouldn't call this 'op' as you did. And you only compare it to Gaede, what about uptiered against a Blys, a Loyang, a Benson and such? This is what matters for me if you throw terms like 'op' around. The T-61 will be (hopefully) very good, as i personally wait for it too, but i repeat myself - it will not be op.

You also think it has far more firepower. Fact is, this is only the case on paper. If you fight an enemy DD you have to angle and manouver. Slow turrets let you not fire at enemy DDs while you are in a turn and the turrets can not keep up. Low amount of guns mean, that you most of the time can only shot 2 guns at the enemy, where ships like Blys can shoot 3 or 4 depending if he approach you or kite away. Same goes for other ship with fast turret traverse and better rudder and turning circle. All these things make the T-61 not op. But whatever, anybody is entitled to have their own opinion and what is 'op' for one is just 'ok' for others.

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1 hour ago, ThePurpleSmurf said:

Congratulations, so the T-61 is better than Gaede

 

EG is the "balanced" T6 ship, if T-61 is better than it (a lot better), then it's not balanced.

 

 

1 hour ago, ThePurpleSmurf said:

And you only compare it to Gaede, what about uptiered against a Blys, a Loyang, a Benson and such?

 

Why not compare it to a Fletcher, or a Z46?  It can fail division into T9 games and TBH I think you need to go up to T9 before you can say that it's overmatched (compared to the T8 Z23 It's got about the same gun power, more torpedo DPM (but less range), better stealth and handling but less speed and health).

 

I mean really?  Arguing for balance on the basis of ships two or even three tiers higher?  How does Belfast stack up compared to T9 Neptune or T10 Minotaur?  MK v Dm. Don?  Imp. Nik v Fuso or Nagato?  Gremy v Minsk or Kiev?

 

 

1 hour ago, ThePurpleSmurf said:

You also think it has far more firepower. Fact is, this is only the case on paper. If you fight an enemy DD you have to angle and manouver. Slow turrets let you not fire at enemy DDs while you are in a turn and the turrets can not keep up

 

Comparison to same tier:

 

EG: same

Farra: + 10.5 s

Fubuki: - 3.59 s

Hatty: - 3.21 s

Shin/Gney/Anshan: -7.5 s

Gallant: +4.5 s.

 

 

Comparison to T8:

 

Z23 - same

Benson/LY: + 18.21 s

Kagero: - 3.59 s

Akizuki: +10.25 s

Kiev: +3.94 s

Oggy: + 13.5 s

 

So only behind the USN and Gallant at it's own tier, it's only when you get to T8 it starts to look a bit slow (and even then it's no worse than Z23 and better than Kagero, in fact looking at the stats overall it pretty much is Kagero).

 

 

1 hour ago, ThePurpleSmurf said:

Low amount of guns mean, that you most of the time can only shot 2 guns at the enemy, where ships like Blys can shoot 3 or 4 depending if he approach you or kite away. Same goes for other ship with fast turret traverse and better rudder and turning circle

 

T61 has the stealth advantage to decide whether to engage Farra/Mahan/Blys or not (and also Benson but for the T8 concealment module), more HP than the T7 Mahan, the firepower to melt IJN and the HP as well, better gun handling than RU T6/7, the same firepower as the T6, better stealth and ship handling than the T7 (plus way better torps obviously).

 

 

1 hour ago, ThePurpleSmurf said:

But whatever, anybody is entitled to have their own opinion and what is 'op' for one is just 'ok' for others.

 

Well, fair enough.

 

My opinion based on my reading of the stats is that it would be a strong T8 ship, on balance a bit better overall than Z-23, losing out to Benson/Oggy/Kiev as a gunboat but well ahead with torpedoes, very similar overall to Kagero.

 

As a tier 6, hugely overpowered.

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44 minutes ago, Capra76 said:

As a tier 6, hugely overpowered.

 

+1

I think putting the T(orpedoboat)-61 at tier 7 would be a good idea. Maas as the destroyer and T-61 as the torpedo boat.

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Z-52 (4 tiers higher) needs torpedo reload upgrade, and torpedo reload skill to reach the same 68 sec. 

And the only real difference is 2.5 km more range... 

 

... so yes, the T-61 torpedo reload seems to be a little too much. 

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6 hours ago, Negativvv said:

Blys is fine, I've been using her a long time. Maybe Lenin has power crept her slightly but if you're good with DDs then Blys does the job.

 

I'm at 16 points with her, maybe I'll hit 19 one day...

EXP? Instant 19pointer :Smile-_tongue:

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5 hours ago, Aragathor said:

 

+1

I think putting the T(orpedoboat)-61 at tier 7 would be a good idea. Maas as the destroyer and T-61 as the torpedo boat.

 A t6 minekaze sir? (With decent guns)

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8 hours ago, ThePurpleSmurf said:

Not even remotely close to Belfast levels. Yes, the T-61 has very good torps at this tier and hydro is great, but that's almost about it. The guns are average, you only have 4 of them and the turret traverse is abysmal which means you can not get into gunfights with other KM, US, RU DDs or Blys if uptiered. In the current state the torps seem to be a bit too strong, so *if* WG nerf them before release you have a bit better Gaede. This ship is okay, but it is FAR from being op and even further away from Belfast level.

I think you watched Flamu's first impression video and think you'll get a op seal clubber that hardly require any effort. The truth is A) Flamu is exceptionally good and can make almost any ship work and B) KM DDs are pretty difficult to play because of the usually slower speed, worse detection, size, sluggish handling, tendency to eat extra damage, especially AP from all enemy ship classes.

 

Don't get me wrong, the T-61 is one of the few premiums i'm interested in and most likely will buy it too, because i expect it to be good. But it won't be op and it'll most likely require a unicum+ level player to have constantly good results - unlike the Belfast or Kutuzov, that any drunk chimp can pull decent numbers with.

 

Kutuzov was op news to me it has a 50% WR same as its silver counterpart the Chappy on the EU servers I don't know why WG pulled it from the store to be honest its stats certainly didn't justify that happing , I totally agree on the Belfast even thou my own stats are rubbish in it but I used to come across them in divisions of good players.

 

Blys is a fun ship and a great gunboat it can contest and win caps very easy if you don't mind a one off ship.

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The reload time on T-61 seems like a typo to me. Like they assigned a 3-tube reload number insted of 4-tube and it somehow made it into testing. Really it makes no sense, give it same torp reload as other 4-tube launchers and it is perfectly balanced (and probably still better than Gaede).

 

Blyska is fine, but I fear the Leningrad alot more. That speed! No amount of lead seems to be enough :)

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Leningrad needs kinda unique captain to make her work - she NEEDS Expert Marksman to cope with glacial turret traverse, unlike your typical rush b gunboat of tier 8+ and surprisingly decent torps make Concealment Expert a tempting option. So yea, she might be a fine captain trainer... for Gnevny/Gremlin or whatever low/midtier boat you fancy. Not so much on Khaba or Grozovoi

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I have both. Love Leningrad, never play Blyska anymore since the stealth fire was removed. Leningrad is better in every aspect.

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Blyska feels... meh nowadays. Guns are good but not exceptional and torpedoes are quite poor, while maneuverability and concealment are nothing to write home about. Sure, a good destroyer player can make it work nicely but in terms of value for money, I see better options available now. Especially since it's useless as a crew trainer as well, which would at least compensate for several weaknesses.


I wouldn't mind seeing it buffed slighty, maybe through faster torps and/or a bit more range on them.

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