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OttoZander

Player stats don't matter

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Did that get your attention? Fantastic! :cap_haloween:

Now that you're here, let me tell you a story.

Have it ever happened to you that a complete rotten tomato has kicked your butt so hard you couldn't sleep right?

Yesterday some generic, non-outstanding member of the community with the stat-board all in yellow, win rate of 51% and PR of 1000, you know the type, has out-played me in his CV against my Hakuryu, and in such a spectacular way. I am not a great player in any way, I am barely beginning to learn the intricacies of carrier play, but I am definitely not a slouch and there is no way a player of such caliber (stat-wise) should've been able to bring me to shame in such a glorious way. He was pulling off fighter manoeuvres that I've only seen Feld, MV and Papedepupi perform :Smile_teethhappy:

I began wondering, could it possibly be that once in a 1000 battles, just once, the player statistics were giving me a completely wrong impression of player's actual skill? Or is it some old-timer that had bought that account.

This is simply an acknowledgement of my own faults. Considering what a colossal thundercunt I can be to my team mates when I snap, judging their incompetency in random battles, it is possible that karma had finally caught up with me and I've got curb-stomped by one of their kind :Smile_teethhappy:

People, learn from my mistakes. :Smile_facepalm:

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Player statistics should always be taken as an indicator and never as an absolute value. Only in combination with other factors do they tell the whole story.

In the case of CVs you should always play out the first fighter engagement carefully so you can get a good grasp on how skilled your opponent is, no matter what his stats say.

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7 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

In the case of CVs you should always play out the first fighter engagement carefully so you can get a good grasp on how skilled your opponent is, no matter what his stats say.

That was exactly the mistake I've had to learn the hard way. I thought I could grab myself one of those juicy destroyers at the beginning of the match that love to rush caps without much resistance from the yellow enemy CV, but the initial mistake led to a few more and ...:Smile_teethhappy:

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How do you play out a fighter engagement carefully? I've only played  a few games in Cvs and have no clue really how to play them..

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10 minutes ago, Dragnorak said:

How do you play out a fighter engagement carefully? I've only played  a few games in Cvs and have no clue really how to play them..

 

Its more of how the enemy CV plays at the start in general, with the fighter engagement being part of it. Say at the start you send your fighters out to the caps to scout and provide air cover and for the next few minutes you don't see a single enemy plane. That tells you either a) the enemy CV is afk or b) the enemy CV is a potato trying to CV strike you. Fighter engagement wise, does the enemy use his fighters to cover his allied ships? Or do they randomly fly about? Does he try to bait you over his own team's AA bubble? Does he keep on chasing your planes with no regards to his planes? Does he strafe you? Those are all the true indication of the skill level of a CV player rather than his stats, especially when you consider the fact that said player could be improving his gameplay as he plays.

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Ah ok yes that makes sense. I thought or was thinking that you could make your fighters behave like torp drops and do some jiggery pokery with them. 

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21 minutes ago, Dragnorak said:

Ah ok yes that makes sense. I thought or was thinking that you could make your fighters behave like torp drops and do some jiggery pokery with them. 

 

Well you can do it with a DB. Drop the bombs manually into the water at the start then make it fly around. Because an unladen DB actually travels pretty fast, you can bait more potato CV players into chasing after them with their fighters while your TB/s go in for the kill. 

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How can you have those stats OP and say you are not good? I'd love those stats man. As far as I'm concerned you are very good. :Smile_honoring:

Can't comment on the CV fight as they have never interested me. :fish_sleep:

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kudos to the CV player.

 

I'm not a big fan of the current stat sites rating methods. They are basically just a combination of damage, kill frags, and win rate.

So to get a good WTR/PR consistently, players tend to have to hold back on the advance a bit, and let the pawns go forward.

The pawns go forward, provide the spotting for the other players, and attract the focus fire of the enemy whilst weakening some of the enemy units.

The rest of the players then pick off the remaining weakened enemies.

So you get some players with good WTR/PR stats, but not so great win rates.

And other players can get very good solo win rates whilst being rated as something of a potato.

A player that uses his ship to push the enemy out of a cap will probably get killed early and do below average damage and probably not get a kill frag. It might however be a team winning manoeuvre.

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Nice thread. Let me add a story.

 

Trap, B cap. Me in my Yamato against a Conqueror and Montana division. They were bad. I could tell by the way they had been hiding in C. Their team had held the caps though and we were down on points. Half the team dead. The Conqueror inches forward and proceeds to shoot HE on my bow in FP Yamato for 1 fire at a time. Meanwhile I pen him from a steep angle for salvo's of up to 18k. Now with the Conqueror gone his full health Montana buddy peeks around the corner. I proceed to bow in and lolpen while he is forced to shoot HE and does nothing much. I move forward and for some reason decide to ram while we are both on about 10k health left. That was mistake number one.

 

Mistake number two was missing the ram because halfway through I somehow thought I could shoot instead of ram. Long story short Yamato turrets turn slowly. Got killed by his back turret trying to turn like tard and lost us the game.

 

Fun times.

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True all dat. I however tend to find my stats rather disturbingly accurate reflection of my gameplay. BUT still... Improving very VERY slowly, since I am only a weekend skipper after all. :cap_like: And of course, there are those well over 2000+ potato-games saddling them, when I was still an obsessed (and very incompetent BB player) and of course, persistent and obstinate failure to check out any guides, whether in-game or otherwise did contribute to this ignominious failure.

 

It was only when I shamefully became a total wussy and dweeby nerd and thus surreptitiously discovered such mystical things as "Binocular view", "torpedo aiming and range", "gun lead on target" and something called a "Minimap", the latest which has been surprisingly helpful in avoiding those pesky mystery islands I tended to be colliding with and which I could swear were not there seconds before. Just to mention a few.

 

So in this case, my grudging transformation from the obvious epitome manly macho god :cap_rambo:into a wimpy cur :Smile_child:has inexplicably resulted in a surprising improvement in my game play results and correspondingly, those annoying stats... Go figure.:Smile_amazed:

 

Of course, you might say that I could have done all that a bit earlier BUT to my defense - It did take my cantankerous grandfather full 26 years to somewhat accept my aunt's husband well enough to utter "Good Morning" to him for the first time, when they bumped into each other in the kitchen for only like the 20.000th time...:Smile_teethhappy:

 

I blame sparse gene pool - I simply had no choice. :cap_haloween: So what can I say? Sheer obstinacy is and has always been one of my most lovable qualities.:cap_like:

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Question is, why do stat sites not include spotting damage in their rating systems? What was the problem with inaccurate information regarding cap contribution and defence?

My cap contribution is 13% and defence 7%. How does that compare to others? Is it an unreliable stat? No doubt it is effected by the type of ship being played.

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28 minutes ago, RAHJAILARI said:

True all dat. I however tend to find my stats rather disturbingly accurate reflection of my gameplay. BUT still... Improving very VERY slowly, since I am only a weekend skipper after all. :cap_like: And of course, there are those well over 2000+ potato-games saddling them, when I was still an obsessed (and very incompetent BB player) and of course, persistent and obstinate failure to check out any guides, whether in-game or otherwise did contribute to this ignominious failure.

 

A balanced set of stats probably indicates good balanced game play what ever the level of skill. Damage dealers with poor win rates are probably not helping their team, whereas good win rate players with poor damage stats are not getting the best out of their ships firepower and could certainly improve.

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1 hour ago, Armorin said:

So to get a good WTR/PR consistently, players tend to have to hold back on the advance a bit, and let the pawns go forward.

this is so true.

not trying to diminish the skilled players but many times you see that people actively hold back not to get spotted first, not to be first in line and not to get shot at.

this is not like WoT where with good protection you can wiggle and hide when on reload and carry the games, here ships are clumsy and exposed most of the timeso only way how to carry the game is to use the tactic described

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5 minutes ago, Murro_the_One said:

this is so true.

not trying to diminish the skilled players but many times you see that people actively hold back not to get spotted first, not to be first in line and not to get shot at.

this is not like WoT where with good protection you can wiggle and hide when on reload and carry the games, here ships are clumsy and exposed most of the timeso only way how to carry the game is to use the tactic described

 

I was leading a battleship charge with one of my better skilled and educated clan members. I was tanking a lot of damage, and he told me to break away and go and heal, which I just managed to do. Of course, this got the attention of a map plinger. Thank god my karma is perfectly balanced so I no longer need to look at that [edited]. I wonder if WG could implement a whinging [edited] value into their karma system, which is simply the balance of compliments/reports being issued by the player.

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Maybe that tomato had the battle of his life. Maybe 1 out of 10000. As a wise man said once: "Throw enough shite on a wall, some will stick". 

 

It is definitely better to have a consistent blue/purple CV on my side than blistering  red/orange one.

Always fun to watch you taking out the enemy tomato DDs in the first minutes of the battle, then listen them complaining.:Smile_izmena:

 

Otto, I am still never sure when are you sarcastic or serious. If that is not only me, that could be easily the reason why our karma dwindles on around 0.:Smile_hiding:

 

 

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56 minutes ago, Armorin said:

Question is, why do stat sites not include spotting damage in their rating systems? What was the problem with inaccurate information regarding cap contribution and defence?

 

In WoT, spotting assist damage isn't available in the APIs that stat sites use to gather the relevant data. I wouldn't be surprised if it's the same for Warships.

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6 hours ago, OttoZander said:

People, learn from my mistakes. :Smile_facepalm:

 

Most of us already did, not using extra software to track how people plays while in game.

You probably were laughing at its lack of skill, all the while he was tearing you a new one?

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2 minutes ago, Strappster said:

 

In WoT, spotting assist damage isn't available in the APIs that stat sites use to gather the relevant data. I wouldn't be surprised if it's the same for Warships.

 

I thought in WoT, it was damage spotted upon death that wasn't available. Spotting damage whilst alive I think is included in WN8.

wows-numbers.com lists spotting damage. Doesn't seem to show potential damage, but I think this is in the API listed as aggro or something like that.

Just played a game where I bow on tanked damage in Aoba supporting a cap, being shot at by multiple cruisers. Had double my average potential damage value. Spent the early game with one forward turret out of action and did very little damage. Had to reverse away a bit as I was getting low on hp. Got the attention of a map plinger again. Unfortunately, couldn't add to that damage total later in the game very much as ships seemed to blow up before my shells got there.

My PR rating, bad. Maybe I was.

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1 hour ago, Murro_the_One said:

this is so true.

not trying to diminish the skilled players but many times you see that people actively hold back not to get spotted first, not to be first in line and not to get shot at.

 

Not really. BB's should tank early and then retreat to heal. DD's push with the risk of being immediately spotted by ships / radar / planes / hydro. Cruisers push close to the cap to support. No one can be unicum sitting back waiting for your teammates to do the dirty work. You can't wait until late game before making a play.

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57 minutes ago, Armorin said:

I thought in WoT, it was damage spotted upon death that wasn't available. Spotting damage whilst alive I think is included in WN8.

 

Number of enemy tanks spotted is part of it, the amount of damage caused by your team isn't. Source.

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47 minutes ago, Strappster said:

 

Number of enemy tanks spotted is part of it, the amount of damage caused by your team isn't. Source.

 

Yes, you are right. Both and more info seem to be available from WoWS API though. Would be good if WoWS was able to run on Linux (without having to use the upcoming steam version with a different account). Might try getting it to run under wine and have a go at programming something more useful for stats junkies.

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3 hours ago, walter3kurtz said:

 

You can't wait until late game before making a play.

 

I've seen unicums doing this. I think it only underlines the post by OP: don't judge based on stats.

 

When I had a sub 50% wr I did some great games where I carried hard and what not. I now dare to say my stats are good or at the very least decent in most ships I regularly play, but from time to time I make crap decisions.

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