The Inbalance of tier5

[wot_chikor]

Hi guys i am back . 

sorry i have to complain on every post but i can't help it , there is always something annoying .

i ' got ' that Oct.Rev tier5 prem and i have been playing ti alot ( since its my first premium ship ) and i have been facing Iron dukes alot , its unbelievable  how OP that ship is ,  he shoots 1 salvo he sets 2 fires you fix that and next salvo from him sets another 2 , its like the conqueror at tier5 , and its realy realy annoying man , i hope some devs or staff take note of this and maybe fix it . 

have a nice day 

[ForlornSailor]

With the Октябрьская революция you have atleast a chance to repair the 2nd / 3rd wave of fires. Others have no option but let it burn. There is no question, that the firechance of RN BBs is incredibly broken.

[ColonelPete]

Learn fire control.

Really, LEARN IT!!

[Capra76]

8 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

 There is no question, that the firechance of RN BBs is incredibly broken.

 

All BB are very good at starting fires if they use HE, the difference is that the RN get the HE alpha that makes it sensible to use it by default.

[beercrazy]

burn em back your chance to set fires is high on all bbs

and do what colonelpete says  and learn fire control properly

[ForlornSailor]

15 hours ago, Capra76 said:

All BB are very good at starting fires if they use HE, the difference is that the RN get the HE alpha that makes it sensible to use it by default.

 

Well its actually both. Cruisers / DDs I destroy through the Alpha, BBs I destory with DoT. Doesnt really make any difference at all, HE is broken on RN BBs. No need to use the AP and gamble with RNG.

 

15 hours ago, beercrazy said:

and do what colonelpete says  and learn fire control properly

 

15 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

Learn fire control.

 

You dont need to learn to use DCP with the Окт.

[ColonelPete]

You do.

 

Because

• there is still a cooldown
• your charges are limited, if you repair every fire, you will soon have none left

[ForlornSailor]

8 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

your charges are limited, if you repair every fire, you will soon have none left

 

If you let a RN BB constantly set fires on you over the time of 3 to 4 minutes - this is the DCP capability in relation to the reloadspeed of an RN BB - without doing nothing against that threat - you have much bigger problems then to learn, when to use one of your DCPs...

 

9 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

there is still a cooldown

 

 

Btw - the cooldown of the DCP is 30 sec - usualy 20 sec cuz u want to use premium, everything else is stupid. Whats the reload of a RN BB again? I hope you see, how that point is totaly irrelevent here...

[WeGreedy]

It almost sounds like Okt Rev has no Repair Party. Seriously, why is everyone that afraid of fires??

[DFens_666]

14 minutes ago, Capra76 said:

 

All BB are very good at starting fires if they use HE, the difference is that the RN get the HE alpha that makes it sensible to use it by default.

 

U kinda said it yourself why RN HE is broken. Alltho other BBs have high fire chances aswell (i mean i did use HE on BBs if the situation was demanding it), they dont have the same alpha damage than the others have. The combination is the bad thing (we could ofc include the 1/4 pen here too). If u would put a RN BB vs another one and both shoot HE, the RN BB will statistically win, because a) he does more alpha damage and b) he gets more fires out of it.

 

[ColonelPete]

17 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

If you let a RN BB constantly set fires on you over the time of 3 to 4 minutes - this is the DCP capability in relation to the reloadspeed of an RN BB - without doing nothing against that threat - you have much bigger problems then to learn, when to use one of your DCPs...

 

 

 

Btw - the cooldown of the DCP is 30 sec - usualy 20 sec cuz u want to use premium, everything else is stupid. Whats the reload of a RN BB again? I hope you see, how that point is totaly irrelevent here...

 

Using premium consumbable is part of "How to fire control".

Many people do not get that.

 

And using all your DCPs in 2 and a half minute or less will get you killed.

Letting it burn and use DCP sparringly keeps you alive longer.

 

[FishDogFoodShack]

42 minutes ago, Capra76 said:

 

All BB are very good at starting fires if they use HE, the difference is that the RN get the HE alpha that makes it sensible to use it by default.

 

Almost as if having the best of both worlds (alpha and fire chance) without any drawbacks is, in fact, broken.

[Migulaitor]

1 hour ago, ColonelPete said:

Learn fire control.

Really, LEARN IT!!

Iron duke has 8 times more games than the second most played tier 5 BB, almost the  same for tiers 3 and 4, for tier 6 is "only" a bit more than twice but people are still grinding.

 

Those BBs shoot HE, you have almost always a minimum of 3 british BBs shooting HE+ cruisers+ some DDs and other BBs. You were saying something about fire control?

The only way is to stay back and dont be the idiot focused.

[ColonelPete]

I manage and many others do too.

If hiding is the only option for you, you are doing something wrong.

 

Btw, I doubt your numbers.

Second to last week, Koenig had more games than Iron Duke.

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/index.html

 

[Deckeru_Maiku]

1 hour ago, wot_chikor said:

Iron dukes alot , its unbelievable  how OP that ship is

 

Doesn't need an Iron Duke to sink a Red October.. even the T4 Orion can do that.

[Gnirf]

To OP: 

You use your repair party instead of DCP also. Think of it on other BBs, How many times have you used 5 DCPs? It is pretty rare. Also pretty rare that you use all Repair partys and DCPs, as often you either crush the enemy towards the endgame if you are still alive or the other way around , you are so outnumbered that you have not time to use them all. 

 

Learn the mix between DCP and repair party that is necessary for a successful BB and high tier cruiser career.

 

Naturally you use both premium DCP and repair party, it is often the lower cooldown you are after rather than numbers.

[Capra76]

51 minutes ago, FishDogFoodShack said:

 

Almost as if having the best of both worlds (alpha and fire chance) without any drawbacks is, in fact, broken.

 

It's not as if other BB don't have HE as well, they just prefer to spam AP all the time, and the RN ships aren't obviously overperforming, for example WR for silver ships (WT, 1 week):

• Orion second behind Kaiser;
• ID neck and neck with Konig;
• QE bottom of all T6;

T7+ are ahead, but players who've got to that level already can be presumed to be on average better than others at that tier.

 

Sure the damage numbers look good, but a large part of that's low value fire damage to BB instead of high value AP damage to other ships.

[RUSSIANBlAS]

Take Fire Prevention...

 

It helps a lot.

[DFens_666]

50 minutes ago, Capra76 said:

It's not as if other BB don't have HE as well, they just prefer to spam AP all the time,

 

Well makes sense because HE is not so viable for them? Compare Orion with the other T4 ships

Myogi - Is totaly useless as it is with 3x2 guns and 33 sec reload

Wyoming - 22% firechance compared to Orions 40% and 1,7k less alpha damage (which is ~550 less when HE does pen damage)

Kaiser - same firechance as Orion but even lower HE damage than Wyoming (only a bit over 1k HE pen damage compared to Orions close to 2k)

And ofc the ability to Citadel many cruisers, which only Kaiser can do too i think ? Im not sure about that, but then again, why would u want to do that with 3400 HE alpha? Orions 5900 is pretty impressive when u get broadside and u can devastate them with one salvo.

 

Quote

and the RN ships aren't obviously overperforming, for example WR for silver ships (WT, 1 week):

• Orion second behind Kaiser;
• ID neck and neck with Konig;
• QE bottom of all T6;

 

Because the potato players cant even make use of those foolproof ships. But looking at some stats they seem to get better winrate/damage/kills than with other ships (still talking about badplayers here). If u balance ships for the worst players in the game, good players will just roflstomp everything with them. Atleast on lower tiers the damage done can be translated into kills and winning matches, those ships just cant withstand Orions HE for long, not even BBs. My orion damage is on par with Gneisenau (similar amount of matches) and i didnt have many of those low or highdamage rounds, its very consistent at 70-80k, sure couple were 40k and 100-120k but very few.

 

Quote

T7+ are ahead, but players who've got to that level already can be presumed to be on average better than others at that tier.

 

Nope, unfurtunately not.

https://wows-numbers.com/de/ship/4179572688,Conqueror/?order=battles__desc#leaderboard

I dont see it. Hundreds of games and still... pretty poor results for many of those...

 

Quote

Sure the damage numbers look good, but a large part of that's low value fire damage to BB instead of high value AP damage to other ships.

 

Atleast on lower tiers i disagree with that. Sure hightiers even Cruisers can heal the fire damage, but not down there. One salvo at a cruiser will set fires, break the engine/rudder/guns. He WILL use DCP. Shoot again at him and he is crippled, its worse than getting deleted with citadels imo. Because its kinda withering slowly to death and u cant do anything against it. Had a Bogatyr once i dunno how many guns i broke when his engine was dead, 4 or so... poor guy. And u have to consider the inaccuracy at lower tiers, even broadside u might get only overpens with BB AP, which results in some hundred or low thousand damage numbers. Not with Orion...

[Migulaitor]

1 hour ago, ColonelPete said:

I manage and many others do too.

If hiding is the only option for you, you are doing something wrong.

 

Btw, I doubt your numbers.

Second to last week, Koenig had more games than Iron Duke.

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/index.html

 

 

Not the option for me, I just push, hug and island, repair, push... But for the average player 1 fire and they start running away (Seen a Tirpitz run away of a Gnevy after 1 fire, wich he inmediatly repaired) or they overextend and burn out. So broken HE just makes the game boring.

 

I took the numbers from this page: https://eu.warships.today/vehicles (Is it the wrong one?)

[ForlornSailor]

57 minutes ago, Negativvv said:

Take Fire Prevention...

 

Pretty much a must these days.

 

1 hour ago, Capra76 said:

Sure the damage numbers look good, but a large part of that's low value fire damage to BB instead of high value AP damage to other ships.

 

Oh, I beg to differ. HE- or better Fire-dmg from BBs result in a lot of indirect damage, that is not credited to the BB-player itself. Let me explain. I as f.e. Orion shoot HE on a BB. I start 2 fires. He DCPs. Before I get to even reload and shoot my 2nd salvo to get the juicy permanentfire, a Cruiser or even another BB - these days could be any BB, not only RN are using HE - gets 1 or 2 permfires. Thus: the dmg of those permfires are only possible because of me, yet I dont get credited any of that damage. Indirect damage. Even worse: A torpedo hitting shortly after he pulled a DCP just cuz of my 2 fires. Still talking about low-value-dmg? Also: Fire is not low value damage on any Cruiser below T9 with a few exeptions like Atago-class and RN CLs. But even there you will pull a DCP + Heal. And if you think, this is my fantasy running wild - I see this all the time when playing Orion. Hell I abuse the mechanic by teaming up with a CV. First, I soften his AA with my HE, pull his DCP, then I let the CV go for the flooding. 1 more salvo of HE and he gets a fire on top of that. Dont even need to look at the guy anymore usualy, he is done. Also, im trying to drag any of my teammates to join my, but telling them, which target used his DCP. Come again with 100%-repairabale-low-value-damage?

[DFens_666]

3 minutes ago, Migulaitor said:

I took the numbers from this page: https://eu.warships.today/vehicles (Is it the wrong one?)

 

Its not up to date really. I think last update was when the RN BBs were mostly "fresh" so they have more games listed on that site than they currently have.

[RUSSIANBlAS]

2 hours ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

Pretty much a must these days.

 

 

Oh, I beg to differ. HE- or better Fire-dmg from BBs result in a lot of indirect damage, that is not credited to the BB-player itself. Let me explain. I as f.e. Orion shoot HE on a BB. I start 2 fires. He DCPs. Before I get to even reload and shoot my 2nd salvo to get the juicy permanentfire, a Cruiser or even another BB - these days could be any BB, not only RN are using HE - gets 1 or 2 permfires. Thus: the dmg of those permfires are only possible because of me, yet I dont get credited any of that damage. Indirect damage. Even worse: A torpedo hitting shortly after he pulled a DCP just cuz of my 2 fires. Still talking about low-value-dmg? Also: Fire is not low value damage on any Cruiser below T9 with a few exeptions like Atago-class and RN CLs. But even there you will pull a DCP + Heal. And if you think, this is my fantasy running wild - I see this all the time when playing Orion. Hell I abuse the mechanic by teaming up with a CV. First, I soften his AA with my HE, pull his DCP, then I let the CV go for the flooding. 1 more salvo of HE and he gets a fire on top of that. Dont even need to look at the guy anymore usualy, he is done. Also, im trying to drag any of my teammates to join my, but telling them, which target used his DCP. Come again with 100%-repairabale-low-value-damage?

 

Basically this...

 

Everyone HE spams the same targets, that way they burn down. Obviously if everyone picks different targets then you're not going to overload their tank.

[Shirakami_Kon]

Looking at this I wonder what will happen if the Duke of York really comes out without the heal. Can't wait for the thousand topics about ANY source that deals damage to that being OP and should be nerfed.

[ColonelPete]

7 hours ago, Migulaitor said:

 

Not the option for me, I just push, hug and island, repair, push... But for the average player 1 fire and they start running away (Seen a Tirpitz run away of a Gnevy after 1 fire, wich he inmediatly repaired) or they overextend and burn out. So broken HE just makes the game boring.

 

I took the numbers from this page: https://eu.warships.today/vehicles (Is it the wrong one?)

That is why I say people should learn fire control.

 

And that site does not say what you say either.